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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:34 pm 
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I need support guys. A very, brief history. I got off oxy heroin at 20 after a year of daily use, gram a day oc80 on top. Four years later I ended up on 20mg a day valium. I tapered over 6 months to 7mg. I got injured and was put on suboxone 16mg a day for pain management since I am an addict.
Another 6 months tapered off valium. Another 6 months I couldnt handle the side effects so I quit cold turkey. 16mg a day after one year.
Huge. Mistake.
Sparing you all my baggage. I was in full withdrawal for 112 days. As I approach 6 months clean off suboxone I am physically where I was at one month off heroin. Mentally I am horrifically depressed. Worse than heroin or benzos. Spiritually dead, emotionally dead.
Im hoping an educated and or experienced mind can shed light on this.
Also Id like to hear from someone who cold turkeyed suboxone after high dose long term use, PLEASE.
In nearly 6 months in AA I have not met someone who has done so. My sponsor, 62 years old, 15 years off methadone, knows 3 other people in our community, multiple, cities whove escaped methadone with years clean.
None of which my sponsor included, know of any suboxone survivors after long term use.
Im scared guys. I know people like me are out there. Please. I need help.
My main question. Will I get better?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:33 pm 
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Hi,
I am a former heroin/oxy user myself. I had a very big habit for years. I also was on Methadone for six years (using during the treatment for the first 5 years) I was able to taper the methadone, I wanted off because I smoke weed and never got carry outs so had to go every day it sucked. I was clean for about two years, one if I don't count the one while I was tapering the Methadone. I was able to stay clean for a year and decided I wanted to dabble so I got some H and went off in no time at all and ended up on a 6 or 7 month daily binge. I finally got tired of being sick between scores so I got into a suboxone clinic last February. I tapered off over a six month period. This was not too bad at all, way easier than withdrawal from h/oxy.
If I had to compare the taper between Methadone and Suboxone I would say they were about the same at least for me, but each having a different type of "let down".
Anyhow I guess if I were you I would have caved long ago I hate withdrawals. So, I wanted to ask why not begin Suboxone again at a low dose and CAREFULLY taper down. While I was broke and waiting for the Suboxone clinic starting date I had gone to detox, got out made it three days ended up using and kept that up till the day of my induction to suboxone. After that things got better quickly, I guess what I am saying is what your doing does not seem to be the easiest path. I am suggesting doing another induction (low say 1 or 2 mg) and see if that cures the symptoms then slowly reduce and I would think you should be able to eliminate much of your pain. I know about the mental aspect I have been there and would never be able to take what you described without caving in to drugs, subs, or Methadone.
I wonder do you have any subs left? Can you get some? Or do you want to keep pushing on? I know so many questions.
Hey what ever you do I want you to know you are not alone, there are so many people struggling with opiate issues, I feel for you and hope you find an easier path to recovery. If you do decide to just ride it out, my opinion is that you will get better, it will just take time.
I was in the same horrible rut after my last stint and could not cope, got on the subs and now I have been done with my SLOW taper for a little over 6 weeks now and I am doing pretty darn good. I documented my journey from .25 mg of subs on another thread named tapering experience at .25 almost ready to quit or something close to that, if your interested in my taper experience.
All in all I just wanted to share some thoughts about your situation and share what I think I may do in your shoes. Let us know how and what your doing about the whole thing, any information you leave may help another.

Take Care


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:03 pm 
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I am unsure of what to do. I plan to make it to 6 months and re evaluate. Its groundhogs day. I wake up everyday feeling like I drank a fifth of tequila. Everyafternoon no matter how hard I fight I end up bed ridden hours hours on end with crippling depression. After 5 6pm i get 2 to 3 hours where its bearable most the time. Sleep, wake up. Everyday


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:21 am 
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Owlcrow is giving you what you're asking for. An idea that he successfully used:

"I was in the same horrible rut after my last stint and could not cope, got on the subs and now I have been done with my SLOW taper for a little over 6 weeks now and I am doing pretty darn good. I documented my journey from .25 mg of subs on another thread named tapering experience at .25 almost ready to quit or something close to that, if your interested in my taper experience."

There was and is no reason to rush off suboxone or jump off a relatively high amount. We have a number of people like Pelican who have been off buprenorphine for a few years. Pelican has been off for 4 years? 7 years? I can't remember exactly. He had to do a lot of recovery work in the process though! He suffered depression and grief and had to face all of his demons. He worked and worked at it! So, of course it can be done. Many of us know all too well the consequences of relapsing yet again, however. So we stay at a dose that works for us and rebuild our lives at the same time.

When you are depressed you are stuck. You may need to try some antidepressant medication to elevate yourself to the point at which you can make some positive strides. So many of us have co-occurring mental disorders along with the addiction and depression is the most common. You may have to be willing to do some things over. You may also have to let go of an viewpoint that prizes abstinence more than living a good and sustainable life. We now know that combatting Opioid Use Disorder often requires MAT. It may be necessary to change your thinking about long term maintenance treatment.

In any case, good luck and keep talking to us. We will try to provide you with the help that you need.

Amy

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Thank you for your reply. You may be right. You cant cold turkey this medication after long term use. In my pride i thought i could do what I did with oxy heroin and cold turkey. I lasted five years clean. Reflecting on where I was at 6 months then vs now is stealing my hope. Ill be in touch guys. Ty for chiming in


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:43 pm 
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Major update. Since my last post I cold turkeyed trazadone. I was taking 200mg at night for 5 months. I also attempted to cold turkey 1800mg of gabapentin after one year of use. Too gnarly. Currently on day 5 at 300mg gaba once daily. Already a monumental difference in my recovery! I didnt realize how much harm the trazadone and gaba was causing unjustly attributing everything to suboxone. October 7th is my 6 months off suboxone cold turkey from 16mg after one year of use. I am even skating again hoping to return to athleticism as a profession. Im full of hope. Ill update you guys october 7th. I plan to jump off 300mg gaba in the coming week to properly asess my condition post suboxone as I will be off ALL drugs exept caffiene and nicotine.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Adrenalinejunkie89 wrote:
Major update. Since my last post I cold turkeyed trazadone. I was taking 200mg at night for 5 months.


AJ89 - I'm very familiar with Trazodone. I used 300mg's a night for chronic insomnia for several years (around 6-7). It took me a long time to taper off of it and get "natural sleep" again. I wouldn't say I was physically dependent on it but I certainly was psychologically. I literally could not sleep without it. It served it's purpose with limited benefits and now I'm glad to be free from it. I think you'll start feeling better without it in your system for a while. I know I did.

I'm curious about what you've been doing. You were in a bad mindset earlier and your posts read like you were on the edge of panic. But now you sound hopeful and energized... a major transformation in a relatively short period of time. There are those of us here that also deal with depression and anxiety. Is there anything in particular that you've been working on that's helped you change so much? Or have you noticed that much change since getting off some of your medication like the Trazodone for instance?

Whatever it is, keep it up. You sound a lot healthier and I think everybody's end game involves becoming happier and more functional as we work on our recovery. I wish you continued success. Hang in there!!

- OpenMind

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:30 am 
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I remember in rehab they gave us trazadone at night before bedtime for 5 days. If we needed it a night of two during the rest of the time we had to really be having trouble sleeping. I remember the techs coming around a couple times at night and if we weren't asleep we were supposed to raise our hands. I guess that's how they could tell who wasn't sleeping. I always wondered why they put ppl through that much of a process to get something for sleep. Then again we were addicts so I guess they thought ppl would lie to get it.

Much luck and success to u AJ.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 1:06 pm 
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AJ, Man we all feel for you in your mostly down roller coaster. So sorry all this has come your way.

I've been interested in your strong continued focus on your stopping bup at 16mgs - bc your prior comments on another thread clearly describe you know there is a bup ceiling, a tolerance ceiling. UNLIKE BUP, full agonists have no tolerance ceiling so tolerance grows with increasing doses, so the full agonist stopping dose - does matter for WD severity. But stopping bup at 16 mg is no worse than stopping at 8 mgs for example. They both are the same level of strength of severity of withdrawal bc for any dose over the ceiling, their tolerance is the same. Their strength/severity of WD is the same. The difference comes bc in higher doses over the ceiling, there is more bup on board so it takes more TIME for WD's to start but WD severity is the same. You also mention your 'long term' use of 1 yr - in no way is 1 yr long term use, nor is long term use a problem.

I think that with your severe worry of stopping at 16 mg after 1 yr on, you're creating monster-like problems for yourself making it much worse than it needs to be as it can already be hard enough.

I know you stopped bc of side effects, I'm not diminishing your experience that stopping CT was tough, totally and completely agree w you that folks should not stop CT -- and instead taper off.

I'm really concerned about your severe depression these last 6 mos. You stopped 200mg trazadone and markedly decreased gabapentin from 1800 to 300mg, resulting in dramatic mood and energy improvement, is interesting too as these often provide some anti depressive and anti anxiety relief in addition to a pain and sleep aid.

Look forward to your next post! And truly wish you my best bc this is all so hard. Pel

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Stopping went well -- its the staying stopped -- where the real work begins.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:06 pm 
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Hi AJ,
Are you seeing a doctor who is prescribing ( or was prescribing) the gabapentin and trazadone? If so, have you talked to him/her about your concerns with meds? As well as your symptoms from Suboxone withdraw, some of which could also be depression related?

I am not trying to be judgmental but I'm a little worried about you acting as your own doctor- especially the cold turkey of all the meds. Sometimes that is warranted, but doctors usually don't advise this. I have done that kind of stuff so many times- deciding on my own which medications to start, stop, cold turkey, binge, increase, decrease as I fancy and it never turned out well.

For me it was also part of bipolar 2- hypomanic- thinking I knew better than anyone and cold turkeying things because I wanted a dramatic change Now, not a gradual, healthy change in the future. It also played into all of my addictive behaviors and is part of what got me into trouble with opiates to begin with. Now I have all my medications strictly monitored and if I think something needs to be changed I talk about it with my doctor first.

I may be way off and this doesn't apply to you, but I do want to advise that in general it's best to talk to your doctor especially when you have multiple medications. Your doctor can also help monitor objectively how you are doing rather than just relying on your subjective experience.
Good luck

Tragicom

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Hey guys thank you for all the thoughts and encouragement. On the trazadone and high gaba my mind felt so foggy and insane. I would have uncontrollable thoughts constantly, depressed, couldnt think.
Stopping the trazadone cold and dropping to 300 was a miracle to me. I sleep just fine. I am down to 200mg gaba for another week, 100, then off. Listening to doc on this one.
My answer to how my recovery has taken such an abrupt positive turn is not a popular one. God, AA, community, and exercise.
Over 5 months my faith and hope to return to a tolerable state of mind and body just about left me. I never stopped praying, going to meetings, helping others, and skateboarding whenever possible though.
Ill be in touch and post another update when I actually make it off the gaba. I havent "seen the light", no burning bushes, but some kind of miracle is taking place in my life. I want to live today, I laugh, and I smile. Tyyl guys


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:54 am 
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AJ89 - I'm really glad to read that you're feeling better. I knew a little time off the Trazodone and less Gaba would make all the difference. Also, it sounds like God is working in your life. I wouldn't worry about whether or not that's a very popular form of recovery... that's between you and God. My own recovery started after I realized I could no longer do it on my own power.

I made every mistake over and over until finally letting go and surrendering, that's when I asked God to come into my life and save me from myself. He did... and continues to do so everyday. I urge you to hold on tightly to your faith. Don't worry about what others may think about it. It's your life and your recovery. Thanks for giving us an update. Please continue to take good care of yourself!!

- OpenMind

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Hi guys! Thought Id post another update. 7 months off suboxone next weekend. Im on day 7 of my final jump to freedom off gabapentin. Days 5 thru 7 have been rough. Ill check in at my 7 months, God willing as I feel my current mental and emotional state is still greatly compramised from gabapentin
Much love, AJ


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