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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:17 am 
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Hello everyone, I'm trying to quit heroin with the help of subs. I'll give a little background info on me. I'm 24, been using opioids for 3 years daily, was on subs for 1 year prior to relapsing on dope for 2 months, and I'm truly ready to get clean. I have a lot of kratom and plan on using kratom/cannabis for the next few months and cannabis for the rest of my life. When I was on subs I took about 0.5mg a day, never more than 2mg even when I first started. Less is truly more. I'm a bit worried about PW's because I got them when I switched to subs last time from methadone. I get a lot of different info online and would like to be able to talk about this to get rid of some of my fears. By 12 hours I am COMPLETELY sick. I have a fast metabolism and am very skinny. It seems impossible to make it to the 24 hour mark. However, this time I am stocked up. I have kratom, kava, cannabis, valerian, and also some pharms such as gabapentin, clonidine, 2 1mg klonopins, and some hydroxizine. I'm trying to decide what the best option is. What would be the best things to take to get through 24 hours so I can get on the subs? I'm thinking of taking kratom and then sleeping for 8 hours with no kratom and making it to the 24 hour mark since last hit (smoked) of dope. I'm wondering if kratom would cause precipitated withdrawals. I can't seem to find any real info on that anywhere online. Also, I only have 2 8mg subutex pills. I plan on using 2mg the first day, then quickly dropping to 1mg, 0.5, and then staying on 0.5 or less for the next week and then stopping with kratom and cannabis only. Sorry for the rambling. I'm a bit nervous and just want to get this over with! Thank you guys.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:15 pm 
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browniejfam,

My guess is that you haven't received much in the way of responses to your post because of the way you want to go about it. Members don't want to hurt your feelings or get you so mad you leave, so I will give you my 2¢ worth and see if you agree or leave.

Using Kratom is just delaying the withdrawals. I'm assuming you've done your research and know that it is indeed used to help wean off of heroin and other strong opiate narcotics because it is an opiate too. You will not get any endorsement from us if you use that junk. Then comes the statement about using weed too and there you lost us.

This is a recovery forum where we help other addicts get their life back by using Suboxone as a medication assisted therapy. We know a lot of people smoke pot but it still keeps your brain in a using frame of mind. A few of the other comfort meds are good ones with the exception of the benzo's and anything that slightly resembles a drug that produces a euphoria. You know which ones they are.

Are you looking for advice or a rubber stamp of approval? You won't get the latter. We have numerous posts here about inducing onto Suboxone and I suggest you read as many as possible.
Please consider adjusting the meds you plan on taking if want to succeed. Your plan will have a lower chance of working vs one that doesn't include putting opiates, benzo's, and other mind altering drugs in your body when you get off the junk.

Do it the right way and we will support you 100% of the way. Can you do a tweak of the meds you plan to take and replace them with healthier ones? If you need help putting together a plan, we will help. Our goal at this forum is to help everyone who wants off the train wreck of their lives.

Time to make a decision.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:40 pm 
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Rule put it out there, direct and honest. I'll add just a couple thoughts...

People who have been around addiction for a long time, either treating it or experiencing it or both, are very familiar with the failures of short-term approaches to addiction. Rapid detox, slow detox, or even 30-90 day residential programs have very low success rates, for whatever reason, when it comes to opioid dependence. Everyone wishes that wasn't the case-- but wishing won't make it so.

Some people decide to take a medication that is legal, effective, cheaper than most other treatment options, and that has very low risks or side effects. There is a great deal of misinformation, and significant (but lessening) stigma around its use. Of course I'm talking about buprenorphine.

Some people decide to stay on the medication long-term, maybe for life. They realize that they can completely remove all of the risks from opioid dependence, for the rest of their lives(!) Once they get over the stigma hurdle, it all becomes clear... 'I don't have to be held back by opioids anymore!'

Some people fall back into indecision; they forget about all that opioids cost them and fret over the cost of treatment. And in some areas, the costs are too high, or the hassles are too high because of drug testing or other issues. My wish is that we could treat people with buprenorphine like we treat everything else, seeing people annually if stable, and more frequently if unstable. I try to advocate for that approach when I can, while trying to avoid being seen as an extremist-- because then I lose the ability to influence anyone!

Some people want to use buprenorphine for temporary treatment, hoping that they can get through life without reoccurence of active addiction. That can work-- but all evidence shows that a person should be away from active using for at LEAST a year. In my opinion, just an opinion- over time, people start to see themselves as a person who does not cross all those boundaries anymore. They see the old using days as how they USED to be-- not who they are now. That takes time. And from what I've seen, it doesn't happen if the person continues to use any OTHER illegal substances, because that prevents a person from seeing himself as no longer part of that world.

I think Rule was right-- that most of the people who are regulars here see that you are in a futile situation, and we've all become used to the anger that often comes from people in that position.

If you really want to do yourself a favor, keep an open mind. Consider truly leaving the world of illicit substances behind. We all know that our best thinking got us to a very miserable place-- so consider leaving your own best thinking behind. There is a lot of wisdom here if you care to use it!

And the cool thing is that everyone here is rooting for you.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:08 am 
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Thanks for the response guys. I didn't know that this community frowned upon cannabis and kratom so much. I will refrain from mentioning anything like that. My main focus is just getting off of dope with the help of subs, so I'm willing to listen to any advice and wisdom you all have to give. I'm young and ready to put this all behind me. My main question is how long to wait from smoking tar to starting on subs? If anyone has experience doing this that would be great, but I guess any short acting opioid is similar so advice from anyone would be great. I'm just nervous about doing this, but I'm completely ready. I'm broke and tired. I don't want to wake up sick anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:47 am 
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Hey brownie :)

I really hope u consider getting a suboxone doctor, u don't have one do u? I'm sorry if I'm wrong about that btw. U will be so amazed at how suboxone eliminates cravings, so I think you'll realize longer treatment is necessary.

Since heroin isn't a long acting opiate, u don't have to wait horribly long. I don't know ur tolerance though. There is a COWS scoresheet that u can google online, that will help u judge ur withdrawal symptoms and when ur score is high enough you'll be good to take ur first dose. My doctor had me wait 32 hours, I was taking pretty large amounts of oxycodone at the time. Honestly I think I could have safely taken my first dose earlier than that but didn't know much about suboxone then. So maybe 24 hours.... with the COWS sheet.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:21 am 
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Thank you Jenn for the reply! I used to have a sub doctor, I was on them for about a year. I really don't want to go back on long term maintenance again. My plan is to detox off of the dope with short term use of low dose subs. However, if I end up having a hard time I'd definitely rather go back on subs than be stuck on dope. I think I'll try to wait the 24 hours. I have some detox meds as well like clonidine and gabapentin. Hopefully those will help me make it 24 hours. I have a real tough time making it that long cold turkey /:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 11:01 am 
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Browniejfam- I wish you all the luck in world in staying clean. Do you have support in place(meetings, therapy, etc)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:52 pm 
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Many people have said that the Gabapentin really helped then during w/d's. Years ago I had some for nerve pain so I do know that it won't give you a buzz at all. The members state that it helps calm them down.

You've noticed that we suggest some kind of recovery program to help you stay clean for the long run. Can it be done w/o going to a 12 step place? Yes, of course. It just seems better to have some people you can talk to in person so you don't start down the wrong path.

What you have going for you is your youth. It will be easier to recover your old true self at your age. Just keep doing the right thing and your whole life is ahead of you. We'll do whatever we can as far as support goes. You might want to get a phone number or two in case you need to call someone if the cravings get too heavy. Just my 2¢ worth.

Stay Strong!

Rule

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:14 pm 
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browniejfam wrote:
Thanks for the response guys. I didn't know that this community frowned upon cannabis and kratom so much. I will refrain from mentioning anything like that. My main focus is just getting off of dope with the help of subs, so I'm willing to listen to any advice and wisdom you all have to give. I'm young and ready to put this all behind me. My main question is how long to wait from smoking tar to starting on subs? If anyone has experience doing this that would be great, but I guess any short acting opioid is similar so advice from anyone would be great. I'm just nervous about doing this, but I'm completely ready. I'm broke and tired. I don't want to wake up sick anymore.

i really believe the more you put into your recovery the better results you will have. you could really benefit from seeing a sub dr. and seeing a therapist or going to meetings. you need to put the effort into your recovery. its not just getting through the WDs, its getting on with your life and staying sober in the long run.
good luck to you. remember warm baths, lots of OTC pain meds, imodium , funny movies etc to help get you through. also, you don't necessarily need to wait 24 hours to start. just wait til you are actively withdrawing.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:05 pm 
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Hey guys! it's the same person, I forgot my password and made a new account. I took my first dose of sub today and feel okay besides some achy legs!


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