Suboxone Forum

Sublocade PI sheets acknowledge possibility of low-T
Page 1 of 1

Author:  TeeJay [ Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:41 am ]
Post subject:  Sublocade PI sheets acknowledge possibility of low-T

Under post-marketing experience:

Androgen deficiency: Cases of androgen deficiency have occurred with chronic use of opioids [see
Clinical Pharmacology (12.2)].

Androgen Deficiency

Chronic use of opioids may influence the hypothalamic‐pituitary‐gonadal axis, leading to androgen
deficiency that may manifest as low libido, impotence, erectile dysfunction, amenorrhea, or infertility.
The causal role of opioids in the clinical syndrome of hypogonadism is unknown because the various
medical, physical, lifestyle, and psychological stressors that may influence gonadal hormone levels have
not been adequately controlled for in studies conducted to date. Patients presenting with symptoms of
androgen deficiency should undergo laboratory evaluation.

There's also some bits and pieces about impaired fertility in there, but it doesn't appear to be as much of an issue.

Now I've been back on Suboxone for 3 or 4 years, the old low-T has reared its ugly head again. I'm not too concerned about the sexual symptoms. If I don't desire sex then I don't really miss it. It's more the lacklustre affect it has on motivation and lifestyle. I have little ambition and motivation in life, despite not being depressed at the moment. I feel if I were to continue life like this, I would probably stay single long term, and I honestly have little desire to go out and have fun. I don't really want to live like a recluse from my mid-30's. It'd also be a matter of time before I relapse, given a lack of zest for life and each day seeming evermore like groundhog day.

I remember when I went off Suboxone last time I experienced these symptoms, my zest for life returned within weeks. I started dating, and ambition to achieve and succeed returned. Since I relapsed and went back on Suboxone, over 3-4 years very slowly I found myself becoming less involved in life. The last 6 months it's been particularly noticeable. I feel like the old grandpa from Charlie in the Chocolate Factory who chose to live the rest of his dying days lying in bed, despite being physically fine. Don't get me wrong I do get out of bed, but I honestly feel like I could just float through the rest of my life as a recluse. I don't even appreciate a physically attractive woman like I did when I was on Sub. Nobody turns my head at all.

So yeah, 2018 I'm giving life another go off Suboxone. This time around I'm not going to make the mistake of moving out of a recovery house environment until I have at least 3 years clean. That was my mistake last time. 18 months clean is too early for a long-term heroin addict with bipolar disorder to live alone with no accountability. Willpower and resilience has never been my strong suite, so I need a bit more extended support before I choose to live on my own.

I'm on the waiting list to go to a 6 month therapeutic community to taper back off Suboxone and reintegrate back into the 12-step world. I would personally prefer to live the rest of my life in a subsidised sober house and attend regular NA meetings, than spend the rest of my life dependent on drug-replacement. We all know I'm not a huge fan of 12-step groupthink, but I'm pretty good at taking what I need and leaving the rest these days. Just don't ask me to share because I don't exactly parrot all the expected platitudes!

The only thing you have to change ... is everything!!! :lol:

Author:  Justin999 [ Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sublocade PI sheets acknowledge possibility of low-T

Hey teejay, I definitely know where you're coming from and I'm really sorry you're going through this now. A lot of what you said were the reasons I tapered and quit subs. It started out fine but after a few years I really lost my interest in everything. Everything seemed so gray, mundane and monotonous.

I also lost interest in dating while on subs which was a really huge switch for me at the time (just getting out of college and having a lot of girls in my life). I didn't want to go out, I didn't want to talk to people on the phone and I became very anti social when I used to be extremely social. Now I am off subs for almost 5 months and I am trying to reconnect with that part of myself that I lost. It is not easy but I think we both can do it but in a more stable way than last time.

In the past, for me. Hanging out with all my friends meant getting messed up on drugs and alcohol. I think it's great that you're thinking about your long term sobriety. It's important we try to reconnect with parts of our old selves without losing the new selves we've built in sobriety. Please keep me posted on your progress and thoughts about this.

Author:  Lillyval [ Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sublocade PI sheets acknowledge possibility of low-T

Omg I thought I was the only one who imagined myself like the old grandpa in Charlie and the Chocolate factory. I can totally identify with that. When I went off Sub maintenance my libido came back with a vengeance, like Justin said in another thread, as did my zest for life. Over a few months/years, though i leveled out, to I guess what would be considered “normal” whatever that is.

Now I’m coming up on two months of being on ~2mg/day, which hasn’t had any effect on my motivation or sex life. I don’t know if it’s just too soon, or if the low dose is going to be the sweet spot. Maybe that is something you would consider, instead of going off all the way, just reducing to a dose that takes the edge off cravings. Your last relapse was terrifying to your friends here on the forum, and we would hate to see you ever go through that again.


Author:  TeeJay [ Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sublocade PI sheets acknowledge possibility of low-T

You're right Lilly ... these symptoms are definitely dose dependent. Unfortunately I struggle to stay clean on lower doses of Suboxone. I actually find it harder to stay clean on low doses of Sub than I do on no Suboxone after I've gotten over the initial "obsession to use".

I'm in the process of reducing from 16mg to 8mg, and things have improved a little bit. But still I have my heart set on giving it another go off Suboxone.

Author:  Lillyval [ Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sublocade PI sheets acknowledge possibility of low-T

As always, I wish you the best. I can’t recall, are you stable on an AD or other psych meds right now? I hope you will continue to keep us posted on your progress. We’ll support you in any way we can.

Author:  rule62 [ Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sublocade PI sheets acknowledge possibility of low-T

Please be very careful TJ. Lilly said it well that we all care a great deal about your sobriety. All the years you've been here have been quite entertaining to say the least. We've watched a very sick addict go from one extreme to the other and still manage to stay alive. Thanks for that part.

It really is too bad the low dose won't work for you. Being an addict is such a huge affliction to be cursed with. That, and the bipolar combined makes for a horror movie story. Amazing how there are different levels of addicts in the world. Mine is constant but manageable. Meaning, a 2 mg dose keeps me perfectly fine. My wife still says this is the best me she's known. I really wish your addiction was more like mine.

My brother is an all together different addict. I would have sworn he was always the one who was never addicted to anything his whole life. Over many years of pain meds and glasses of wine he found himself getting a D.U.I. and spent the night in jail. Then he was ordered by the court to attend 12 step meetings and have no substances whatsoever in him, including Ambien or any other sleep aid. He did the 2 mg generic Subutex off and on for a few years and then just stopped. His sleep still hasn't returned to 8 hours but he gets maybe 5 after six months off.

So we see one extreme to the other. You being the worst of the worst. And I agree, a live in sober house would be ideal for an addict of your caliber. Plus, we would all like to see you dating again and feeling more normal than what you've been feeling on that very high dose of Bupe.

Do what you need to do TJ. Just remember to give yourself permission to go back onto Suboxone if need be. And please keep posting your progress along the way or we'll have to send a spy down under to watch you.

Author:  TeeJay [ Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sublocade PI sheets acknowledge possibility of low-T

Thanks Rule. You're right. When I look at my addiction and relapse history, the ease at which I return to addiction makes me consider myself a more difficult case compared to many who grace this forum. But when I compare myself to other IV heroin addicts, especially around my area, my experience is pretty stock standard. IV heroin addicts apparently find it more difficult to achieve abstinence on Suboxone than those whose addiction was isolated to pain pills. Perhaps it's a ritual thing. I don't know. But most I've spoken to in NA and rehabs continue to use while on Suboxone. Even those who do quite well, when I press them, admit to using a few times a year while on Suboxone.

If Suboxone actually worked for me like it did for you, I'd definitely be more than happy to stay on it for life.

Author:  Bamagurl22 [ Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sublocade PI sheets acknowledge possibility of low-T

Hi TeeJay! Looking forward to reading about how your feeling while dropping your dose and tapering down. I completely understand that lackluster. I used to have so much to say, here on the forum and in general. And I used to be so motivated in my recovery and in this new way of life but now I just kinda read everyone's comments and just carry on. I come here and read quite a bit but just not motivated to say much back. And the same goes with getting out and about. Just not feeling it. I did start dating a guy a couple of months ago. A real nice guy and I find myself more than not making excuses not to go out to eat and do fun things with him. I even kinda messed up and told him that it was hard for me to get motivated to get ready for us to go out and have a night out some times. He was like, "Well dang, I hope not" Then I explained to him about being on Suboxone for almost two years now and the motivation thing, or lack of it. Instead I am just happy at home watching YouTube videos or scrolling around on Facebook. I have dropped my dose from 8 mg down to 4 mg, no problem and may be right along aside you as far as dropping even lower and eventually jumping off. The Dr I am going to is going to make me do it sooner or later. Why not get this show on the road. I will always keep the option open to return to Suboxone if I see myself slipping. I did join a real nice recovery Facebook group today called Peace Love Recovery so I am still being held accountable. Plus I stay watching videos and reading recovery topics online. I must say the living arrangement for the sobriety home for three years sounds like a great idea. Also I have enjoyed you frequenting the forum more often. Keep it up. Happy Holidays to you TeeJay. Your forum friend, Angie

Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group