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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:53 am 
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Hey everyone!

Sorry I have been mia for the past few days... I have been so busy and overwhelmed with work that I barely have time to open my computer - any info I get is off my iphone! Anyway.... as my title suggests, I have 7 Vicodin in a sweatshirt pocket upstairs in my closet. I have NOT taken them. they are just there. I saw an almost empty bottle in a medicine cabinet and without thinking much about it, took them. This is the reason I am not stopping subutex! those pills are my actual reminder - not my theoretical reminder of what I would do without the subutex to keep me straight. The day I can take those pills and flush them down the toilet will be the day I consider tapering. Hope everyone is doing well, I think about posting way more than I do, hopefully I will have some time freed up soon to contribute a little more! Till next time...

MW


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:33 am 
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"...those pills are my actual reminder - not my theoretical reminder of what I would do without the subutex to keep me straight. The day I can take those pills and flush them down the toilet will be the day I consider tapering."

I'm usually very nice when I post, but I have to be firm here. If you are trying to be clean, the LAST THING you need is your DOC hanging around the house, or hidden in your closet. Endangering your sobriety by testing your willpower is a dead-end street. Would an overweight person on a diet necessary to save their life keep boxes of junk food in the kitchen? Those types of rationalization are part of "Stinkin' Thinkin'"-that is, addictive thinking. An empty/expired Rx bottle or a photograph of your DOC would be a much healthier reminder, if you are needing one.

It could be several months or even years before your final taper. If you are serious about getting clean, and I think you are, then I would throw those pills away right now. Not in 30 minutes, or tomorrow. NOW!! What are you trying to "prove?" If an addict only needed willpower to stay clean, I'd go to work in a pharmacy.

I know you probably do not agree with me right now, but as you get further along in your recovery, you will realize that keeping life-endangering drugs in the house (ie, your DOC) is NO WAY TO GET SOBER. You are making very good choices by getting on Sub. You just have a little "house cleaning" to do. You have the Subutex. You do not need the Vicodin "security blanket" anymore. I mean, if you don't plan on taking them, why would you keep them in your house? It's almost like saying, "I'm not going to shoot myself or anything, but I'm just going to keep this loaded gun cocked, and pointed right at my head."

If I were in your shoes, I would be running to the garbage as fast as humanly possible.

AM

(PS. I am in the middle of a Sub taper, so if I sounded harsh, or have offended you, I am very sorry. I've been in mild WD for weeks and weeks, so I have many moments of irritablility. My only intention was to help you have a successful recovery, and avoid the mistakes I have made during my own. No harm intended.)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:29 pm 
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Hi AnnMarie!

Thank you for your response. It is quite obvious to me that your intentions are good and you genuinely dont want me to do anything stupid. First of all, you were not harsh, no need to apologize for your tone, I was not offended by anything. Second, good luck with your taper! I wish you the best! Lastly, I think you misunderstood my message. If you have read any of my prior posts, you would see that I have no plans of coming off subutex. I have decided with my husbands support and doctors support that I will stay on a low dose subutex long term. I agree 100% that willpower has nothing to do with staying sober. I have the pills as a reminder (I cant take them, they wouldnt work anyway) that theory and mindfucking can work an intellingent person into knots. an empty bottle would have me telling myself that I can resist in time blah blah blah. I cant. I am very happy with my treatment, my decision and the fact that vicodin is in my pocket, instead of in my bloodstream!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:32 pm 
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Wait, why do you need to keep 7 vicodin in your sweatshirt pocket? To remind you not to take vicodin? What?

Just the fact that you unthinkingly took that almost-empty bottle of vicodin out of a medicine cabinet and put it in your pocket should tell you how easily the addict mind can take over the rational mind. Who's to say that one day your addict mind won't prompt you to go upstairs and see if taking all seven vicodin at once might give you some kind of buzz, despite your low-dose of subutex?

I think you are playing with fire by having those pills in your posession. You don't need them to remind you of anything. If the empty bottle would bother you, get rid of it too.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:36 pm 
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I haven't posted anything to this because the whole thing confuses me to be honest. I am having a hard time relating. When I am on suboxone, you could stick an entire bowl of OC in front of me and I would be the least bit tempted to take any of it. I just don't have any interest. I went to my mom's for my cousins funeral and the first thing she said when we walked in the house was that she had vicodin or ativan if anyone needed it. I promptly declined. Didn't bother me a bit. Mentioned my husband might want some and of course he didn't. I didn't look for it or think about the vic or the ativan beyond that. This is NOT to say I don't have active addiction behaviors because I clearly do. That just isn't one of them.

So why do you think you grabbed the bottle knowing you don't want them, can't take them, etc.? I wonder if this is instinct or a response to a trigger, or what it is?

I have read your prior posts so I am not really concerned about you taking them and I know that you "get it". But if it was me, I would be very interested in further exploration of the behavior. What purpose DOES it serve if you know you aren't going to take it? Are you feeling guilty about the decision to stay on the subutex long term? Was the behavior to prove that you shouldn't feel guilty? (Not that I think you should feel guilty, I just think the behavior is interesting and must serve some purpose so I am throwing stuff out there that comes to mind but may not fit for you at all).

I guess that is all I have to say about it. I don't really have an opinion. Just think it is worth exploration and I don't know if I would dismiss it as instinct or not.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:35 am 
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annmarie wrote:
I'm usually very nice when I post, but I have to be firm here. If you are trying to be clean, the LAST THING you need is your DOC hanging around the house, or hidden in your closet. Endangering your sobriety by testing your willpower is a dead-end street.


Not to point out the obvious but there is no sobriety at stake IMO. Being clean is one thing, being on maintenance with a opiate is another. Using subs is NOT clean, it may be able to help you get there. I do not think you need to have viks in your possession. Your are obviously on suboxone for a reason, and you also stole viks for a reason. Get honest with yourself, no one in these forums cares if you are lying or not. You know why you took the viks... they are your DOC. You like opiates, that's why you are on subs if I had to guess. If your using, your are in active addiction, your still using subs so you are an addict on maintenance therapy. Thats a fact not me making accusations. You stole the viks b/c you either got a rush out of it or in your mind you know u can stop the Subs for a few days and feel the viks sink in and wrap their arms around you. Or both. Honesty is key. You took the viks for a reason, only you know why.

Answer this, say down the road you were able to taper off the subs and stay off them. You then run into some viks in a cabinet, do you eat them? Please do NOT answer or respond to this question, I don't want to know the answer. You really need to think about it and answer it honestly with yourself. This behavior is a valid reason for concern, its your life, you want to keep it Im sure.

My apologies for being blunt tonight, read my first thread and you will know why.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:07 am 
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Ohhhhh here we go again being on suboxone isn't clean? Why would you even say that on a suboxone website besides to start a bunch of shit? Man some people in this world need to get a fucking clue what there talking about.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:23 am 
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Ronnie,
I'm really not trying to start anything, honestly. Its a simple fact, being on suboxone maintenance is not clean. Suboxone is a opiate. I dont really want to go into it right now or argue. I have a B.S. in BioChem and Pharmacology, so dont explain what it does, trust me I know. Just because I say it doesn't make you clean is not a bad thing. It does a much better job of maintenance than methadone that's for sure, and if taken correctly and not abused its a much easier path to staying off another opiate and living a productive life than doing it sober for alot of people.

Very few people can stay clean by themselves, without going to NA meetings, finding their higher power, and constantly working on staying clean its not easy, most addicts stay addicted or die. That's a sad fact, but true. So a drug like suboxone is helping many people live productive lives without abusing another opiate or other drugs. I just don't like it when people can not accept it for what it is. It is a disease of addiction, and if your taking suboxone you are treating that addiction with a maintenance opiate plain and simple. I don't think it should be the first treatment, or the only treatment. True sobriety is obviously the best, but if that can not be maintained then suboxone is a very good alternative to helping people work to that goal.

Did that clear up my stance?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:05 am 
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We are sober. We are not high. Yes, we have an opiate in our blood stream so technically we are not "clean", but you can't say we are not sober. If we weren't sober that would mean we were high and if we were getting high off this stuff none of us would make it to our next appointment without running out of pills the first week.
So, why slip hairs? Does it bother you that some interchange the terms "clean" and "sober"? What we are saying when we use these terms is that we are not high and we are no in active addiction. So, in our minds we are clean. We are clean from the wreck of a life we had while we were using our DOC and we are not high. I really can't stress that enough. You will find that most people on this site will not appreciate you clearing up what "clean" really means to them. We know what our situations are and we know that suboxone is a partial opiate agonist. What does it really matter if we are not clean if we are
sober? I just don't understand why it would bother you even if someone said it. You calling a foul on a technicality ref! Lol!

I know you didn't mean any harm. You just sounded like you were challenging all of us in our first post.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:10 am 
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We are sober. We are not high. Yes, we have an opiate in our blood stream so technically we are not "clean", but you can't say we are not sober. If we weren't sober that would mean we were high and if we were getting high off this stuff none of us would make it to our next appointment without running out of pills the first week.
So, why slip hairs? Does it bother you that some interchange the terms "clean" and "sober"? What we are saying when we use these terms is that we are not high and we are no in active addiction. So, in our minds we are clean. We are clean from the wreck of a life we had while we were using our DOC and we are not high. I really can't stress that enough. You will find that most people on this site will not appreciate you clearing up what "clean" really means to them. We know what our situations are and we know that suboxone is a partial opiate agonist. What does it really matter if we are not clean if we are
sober? I just don't understand why it would bother you even if someone said it. You calling a foul on a technicality ref! Lol!

I know you didn't mean any harm. You just sounded like you were challenging all of us in our first post.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:38 am 
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I'm truly sorry, I'm sure I have offended people with my harshness and I do apologize. Im in withdrawal after relapsing from 7 months sober and am grouchy and wish I was on subs myself. I do not think of myself any better than anyone on subs, I'm a opiate addict as well we are all in this boat together.
WhoDatNOLA, I would agree with you. I can not argue with that. I know you are not using suboxone to get high, I have never accused anyone of that. In truth if you wanted to get high suboxone would not be the first thing you ran and grabbed.

As far as terms go I don't want to be misunderstood, I do think people can find recovery while on suboxone, if your using it correctly it would be hard not to. I think that's the wonderful part of the drug. It is impossibly hard for many addicts to understand what their life has became in addiction and how living a train-wreck has become a part of everyday life.

In order for most people to have a taste of what normal is they would have to suffer through horrible WDs. If they can make it through that then they have 6months to a year of lingering PAWS and anxiety. This would make about 90% of anyone trying to recover relapse, and through in the crap life through at you and mess we have caused its a miracle if you can stay clean. Suboxone allows people to see this freedom from drugs, that they may never have been able to see. It allows hope they they can be normal when otherwise they would most likely give up and never try. My views are diffrent from most when it comes to its length of use under normal circumstances. All that is facts, the following is my opinion. I do not think this should be a standard/default treatment for opiate addicts. I do not think it should be a life long solution when it is used, I think it should be a tool to getting off opiates completely over time. The length of which obviously varies person to person.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:46 am 
Hello Fudmoe. I'm sorry you're going through a rough time right now. I have read through all of your postings on the forum thus far so I'm going to try to reply to you taking all of that into consideration.
Okay...first of all, your first reply on this thread regarding MWflorida's post was COMPLETELY out of line and that sort of thing will not be tolerated on this forum. You cannot come here and bash another member and/or presume to present that your idea or form of recovery is somehow superior to someone else's. Whodat's reply to your comments was right on, so I won't say a whole lot more about that other than this whole "clean"/"dirty" terminology needs to go away. Active addiction and In Recovery are far superior terms and much more descriptive of one's lifestyle than "clean" or "dirty." Enough about that.....you can find more about this elsewhere on the forum.
I also find it interesting that you jumped to the conclusion that MWFlorida had stolen those Vicodin. I'm about 99% sure she didn't.....I'm pretty sure she found them in her OWN medicine cabinet. So be careful about making such assumptions. I think right now you would be one of the last people who should be advising anyone about what's right or wrong in recovery. You should be seeking advice rather than giving it in my opinion.
Moving on....It's a shame that your wife and other loved ones have a problem with buprenorphine. You sound like an excellent candidate for long-term if not life-long maintenance. You've been to rehab, worked the steps, faithfully attended NA, suffered loss because of your addiction, etc and yet you continue to relapse. Suboxone may the very best avenue of recovery that you could take.
I think it's also a shame that you base your opinions about Suboxone, at least in part, upon your past experience with the drug when you obtained it illegally and used it without the benefit of medical supervision. You talk about how horrid the withdrawal was, but you didn't stop the drug properly and I think you were also withdrawing from other drugs at the time. So really, you don't have a whole lot of credibility, at least not with me. Funny this drug/treatment modality that you have decided is inferior is the very thing you've turned to at this point. The thing is, I feel so strongly that if you would use it properly and under the care of a physician, you could turn your addiction on its ear and keep it that way for the rest of your life. With bupe and all your other recovery tools in practice....you can keep this disease in remission, a lot longer than 7 months!
You're obviously (to me anyway) an intelligent and decent human being. Yeah, you pissed me off at first, but you were decent enough to come back and apologize and clarify and adjust your positiion......That speaks volumes to me about a person's character! It really does. I know you're struggling. I've been there. I've done the abstinence route, the constant meetings, etc. PAWS kicked my ass and then I found Suboxone and hope. I strongly recommend that you gather all the material you can (start with sticking around this forum and check out Naabt.org) about buprenorphine treatment and begin thinking about it as a viable option for you. Please consider finding a legitimate source for your Sub and stop snorting it and buying it off the street. You're an educated guy with a loving family and good support (it sounds like.) Think for a minute about how utterly stupid it is to continue on in active addiction or continually risk relapse when there is a much better alternative. I hope that you and your loved ones are able to come to see a more complete picture of what bupe treatment is all about. It could, at the very least, improve your quality of life and at the most, save your life.
I've rambled long enough. I sincerely care about you and empathize with your situation and want to help in any way I can. I respect your feelings and your position and expect only the same from you. All I ask is that you do not again post anything disrespectful about anyone else's choices in recovery or worse yet, say that we are not "clean" if we choose to treat our disease with a medication that is approved to do exactly that....treat the disease of opiate addiction.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:48 am 
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setme free, I can not argue with anything you said. Regarding my past experience with subs yes I took them illegaly and ran out unexpectedly, I do not base my opinion of subs on that experience. To be honest I would agree and think that Im a good canidate for subs as well.

There is a BIG issues I really really need answered.... All the NA meeting I have been through it appears that I am not clean and am not working the process if I am takings subs. They are considered a drug and If I am on them I do not have clean time. Its seems I am left with not being able to use them If I want to stay with NA. Is this correct or am I wrong?

How can I go to meetings or work steps if taking subs is considered using by them? I really want to stay clean and feel strongly that subs can help. How do I educate others in my family? I mean as they see it I would be making the decision to Stop NA and go on suboxone maintenance.

Im very confused right now, again Im sorry for being callas, I really am. Maybe I jealous yall are on subs and Im not haha. Please help.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:00 pm 
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The reason most of the general population [including most NA members] don't consider suboxone users as being "clean" or "sober" is because Buprenorphine is a schedule III Narcotic Drug and is illegal to posses without a prescription. Punishable by up to 3 yrs in prison for possesion w/o a prescription. Methadone is schedule II and most benzo's are schedule IV.

Here is a list of other schedule III drugs for comparison

Schedule III
Amobarbital & noncontrolled active ingred. 2126 N Amobarbital/ephedrine capsules
Amobarbital suppository dosage form 2126 N
Anabolic steroids 4000 N "Body Building" drugs
Aprobarbital 2100 N Alurate
Barbituric acid derivative 2100 N Barbiturates not specifically listed
Benzphetamine 1228 N Didrex, Inapetyl
Boldenone 4000 N Equipoise, Parenabol, Vebonol, dehydrotestosterone
Buprenorphine 9064 Buprenex, Temgesic
Butabarbital 2100 N Butisol, Butibel
Butalbital 2100 N Fiorinal, Butalbital with aspirin
Chlorhexadol 2510 N Mechloral, Mecoral, Medodorm, Chloralodol
Chlorotestosterone (same as clostebol) 4000 N if 4-chlorotestosterone then clostebol
Chlorphentermine 1645 N Pre-Sate, Lucofen, Apsedon, Desopimon
Clortermine 1647 N Voranil
Clostebol 4000 N Alfa-Trofodermin, Clostene, 4-chlorotestosterone
Codeine & isoquinoline alkaloid 90 mg/du 9803 Codeine with papaverine or noscapine
Codeine combination product 90 mg/du 9804 Empirin, Fiorinal, Tylenol, ASA or APAP w/codeine
Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone 4000 N Oral-Turinabol
Dihydrocodeine combination product 90 mg/du 9807 Synalgos-DC, Compal
Dihydrotestosterone (same as stanolone) 4000 N see stanolone
Dronabinol in sesame oil in soft gelatin capsule 7369 N Marinol, synthetic THC in sesame oil/soft gelatin
Drostanolone 4000 N Drolban, Masterid, Permastril
Ethylestrenol 4000 N Maxibolin, Orabolin, Durabolin-O, Duraboral
Ethylmorphine combination product 15 mg/du 9808
Fluoxymesterone 4000 N Anadroid-F, Halotestin, Ora-Testryl
Formebolone (incorrect spelling in law) 4000 N Esiclene, Hubernol
Hydrocodone & isoquinoline alkaloid 15 mg/du 9805 Dihydrocodeinone+papaverine or noscapine
Hydrocodone combination product 15 mg/du 9806 Tussionex, Tussend, Lortab, Vicodin, Hycodan, Anexsia ++
Ketamine 7285 N Ketaset, Ketalar, Special K, K
Lysergic acid 7300 N LSD precursor
Lysergic acid amide 7310 N LSD precursor
Mesterolone 4000 N Proviron
Methandienone (see Methandrostenolone) 4000 N
Methandranone 4000 N ?incorrect spelling of methandienone?
Methandriol 4000 N Sinesex, Stenediol, Troformone
Methandrostenolone 4000 N Dianabol, Metabolina, Nerobol, Perbolin
Methenolone 4000 N Primobolan, Primobolan Depot, Primobolan S
Methyltestosterone 4000 N Android, Oreton, Testred, Virilon
Methyprylon 2575 N Noludar
Mibolerone 4000 N Cheque
Morphine combination product/50 mg/100 ml or gm 9810
Nalorphine 9400 Nalline
Nandrolone 4000 N Deca-Durabolin, Durabolin, Durabolin-50
Norethandrolone 4000 N Nilevar, Solevar
Opium combination product 25 mg/du 9809 Paregoric, other combination products
Oxandrolone 4000 N Anavar, Lonavar, Provitar, Vasorome
Oxymesterone 4000 N Anamidol, Balnimax, Oranabol, Oranabol 10
Oxymetholone 4000 N Anadrol-50, Adroyd, Anapolon, Anasteron, Pardroyd
Pentobarbital & noncontrolled active ingred. 2271 N FP-3
Pentobarbital suppository dosage form 2271 N WANS
Phendimetrazine 1615 N Plegine, Prelu-2, Bontril, Melfiat, Statobex
Secobarbital & noncontrolled active ingred 2316 N various
Secobarbital suppository dosage form 2316 N various
Stanolone 4000 N Anabolex, Andractim, Pesomax, dihydrotestosterone
Stanozolol 4000 N Winstrol, Winstrol-V
Stimulant compounds previously excepted 1405 N Mediatric
Sulfondiethylmethane 2600 N
Sulfonethylmethane 2605 N
Sulfonmethane 2610 N
Talbutal 2100 N Lotusate
Testolactone 4000 N Teslac
Testosterone 4000 N Android-T, Androlan, Depotest, Delatestryl
Thiamylal 2100 N Surital
Thiopental 2100 N Pentothal
Tiletamine & Zolazepam Combination Product 7295 N Telazol
Trenbolone 4000 N Finaplix-S, Finajet, Parabolan
Vinbarbital 2100 N Delvinal, vinbarbitone
======================

Penalties for Possession
If treated as an indictable offence, the penalty is:

Schedule I: Maximum 7 years imprisonment
Schedule II (exceeding amounts set in Schedule VIII): Maximum 5 years imprisonment
Schedule III: Maximum 3 years imprisonment
Schedule IV: It is not an offence to possess a Schedule IV substance for personal use; however, Subsection (2) of Section (4) of the CDSA states that "no person shall seek or obtain a substance or authorization from a practitioner to obtain a substance in schedules I through IV." Subsection (7) then states that it is an indictable offence to contravene subsection (2). Therefore, it is an indictable offence to attempt to acquire a Schedule IV substance but not an offence for possession. Section 5 provides that possession for the purpose of trafficking of a Schedule IV substance is an offence.

If treated as a summary conviction offence, the penalty is:

Maximum $1000 fine for first offence and/or maximum 6 months imprisonment.
Maximum $2000 fine for subsequent offence and/or maximum 1 year imprisonment.

Note: For amounts not exceeding those set in Schedule VIII, maximum fine of $1000 and/or maximum 6 months imprisonment is the only punishment.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:01 pm 
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Fudmoe,

NA or 12-step programs in general are only ONE option in dealing with addiction. They are not the only one out there, but they are the only one (as far as I know) that believes if you have any drug in your system you are not clean. Check out other forms of support, such as SMART recovery, Rational Recovery, or any of your local addiction support groups. Some NA/AA groups go so far as to say that if one is taking an anti-depressant then that person is not "clean" either.

Don't let one form of recovery support define your entire idea of recovery. As for going to NA meetings, as I'm sure you know, all meetings are different and there are some that support the use of Suboxone as a tool in recovery. Some people just don't mention they are on it and work the steps. Don't they say something like "take what works for you and leave the rest behind"? People who attend 12 step meetings are all unique and they ways they work the program are also unique.

I don't know if this will help you or not, but I thought it might give you some perspective.

Melissa

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:24 pm 
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We got away from the main topic! Why would you have 7 vikes if you weren't going to take them some day? Just makes no sence and I think u should get rid of them ASAP! its like saying when I was getting clean from coke putting a 8 ball in my closet I would use that shit real quick.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:04 pm 
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I am so impressed by what I have just read! I was first impressed that SetMeFree would take the time and more so the courage to lay out everything that she did and how she did it. I could not agree more with all of it - and I think it's time that more of us take situations and comments like these to task.

Having said that, I'm even more impressed by fudmoe for taking a closer look at it all and responding with incredible responsibility. Rather than just stand up on his hind legs and fight everyone - like we have seen so many people do - he took a look at everything and admitted that he might actually be (oh can it be???) WRONG? No doubt being in the midst of withdrawals may have had a lot to do with his earlier comments. But that still may not stop the average person from fighting back even when they know they are wrong. Personal accountability. AMAZING!

I'm glad we have a moderator like SetMeFree that took all of this to task and I'm even more happy to have a new member here like fudmoe who has the personal integrity to admit that he may have responded differently that he should have or even wanted to. I'd love to have a board full of people like the two of you.

We don't all have to agree with each other. We don't all have to be the same type of people with the same or similar backgrounds, thoughts, feeling, etc. Plus, what fun would that be? We don't all have to agree. It would be so great, however, if everyone had as much integrity as these two - no matter which side of an issue they decided to take!

I applaud both of you!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:06 am 
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Original topic please. U can find this debate "is being on suboxone clean or not" still worried about the person with the 7 vikes


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:53 am 
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Glad to see your still around ronnie, Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:12 am 
Thanks donh for your kind words. You're absolutely right....we do not all have to agree all of the time!
The main thing we need to be conscious of are the posting rules of this forum and baseline respect for one another.
Okay Ronnie, we'll get back on topic.....the "7 Vicodin in my pocket" are not much less than a gold embossed invitation for relapse in my opinion. I'm not judging and there may well be something to this that I'm missing. But I don't see how having those pills around accomplishes anything good. It is my firm belief that keeping those pills is a mistake.
Sure.....the fact that you are holding on to them kind of reinforces how much you need the Subutex. But do you really need that? You know without being reminded that you're doing the right thing by staying on Sub. Why not think of it this way....show your strength and resolve in your recovery by flushing those pills? I can think of no greater 'statement' of your resolve than that. Otherwise those Vicodin are there, in your pocket and in the back of your mind, inviting you to take a few days off Sub, take a break, and have yourself a little 'mental vacation' with them. I think it's important that we all remember this is not a question of will-power. You don't have anything to prove and you need no reminders of why you're on Sub. My vote......flush 'em and flush 'em now! By the way.....how are you MW? I know you have a busy life. Hope you're taking good care of yourself. So what do you think.....ready to flush??!!


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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