It is currently Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:12 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:09 am 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 3
Im new to the idea of going beyond just researching and am looking for actual advice from others who are in my position and im hoping that this helps. This is my story, one of my best friends has been gone through the addiction to pain killers, which were presented to him by doctors, and when he couldnt get them through the doc. he went to finding them elsewhere.. the use of the pain killers stopped after almost 5 years of heavy use when he went to a new doctor and was given subs, he has been on them for 4 years with no actual attempt to lower the dosage. he says that he wants to stop taking them, tells that he is afraid of what he will be like without them and the withdrawals if and when he does stop taking them. im really worried that the "one day" expression will never become anything but an expression and a dismissal of not only my concerns but those of his families. i take him to the doc. once a month, and have been, and i feel like i am being an enabler almost, when i know how much he does one day want to be off of them all together. i dont even like to talk to him about it anymore because it turns into an argument and his temper changes like a light switch so i just drop the subject and apologize even when im not the one who brings it up. how can i talk to him about it, especially when he attempts to confide in me on the topic of lowering the dosage up to me when he just flies off the handle and just repeatedly asks if i want to see him sick? if anyone is or has been in this situation i would greatly appreciate any insight that can be given.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:32 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Hi trying!

Welcome to the forum - It's a great place for support. So your friend has been off pain meds and on Suboxone for 4 years? Other than the arguments about the suboxone, how is he doing as far as not relapsing and staying "clean"? I'm curious as to why it seems to be so important for him to stop taking the subs? Many people, myself included, take suboxone for maintenance and remain on it indefinitely. I'm not saying that's what your friend needs, just pointing out that it does happen.

When a person decides to taper down and/or off suboxone they need to have a comprehensive, healthy recovery plan in place to prevent relapse. What has your friend done for his recovery in addition to the suboxone? My question is would he be able to stay in remission once he went off the subs? Perhaps he fears relapse once he stops taking them. Maybe, regardless of the fact that he's been on them for 4 years, simply isn't ready to try recovery without the help of suboxone.

If you want to talk to him about it, I would try to do so without pressuring him to stop them. Discuss with him his recovery and how confident he is in being able to avoid relapse. Could it be that YOU want him off the suboxone more than he wants to be off it?

Good luck and keep us posted.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 10:25 am 
Offline
6 Months or More
6 Months or More
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:32 pm
Posts: 228
I think hat asked some great questions and I'm curious to hear the answers to them. Well, all I can really offer you as far as advice goes, it that if your friend isn't ready to come off the sub and doesn't have a plan in place to stay clean it could be disastrous. So, like I said I'm curious to hear the answers to hat's questions and then maybe I can offer some more opinions on the situation. Glad you came here for some advice. There are some smart cookies on here! Hope to hear back from you soon!


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:41 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:03 pm
Posts: 991
Roles reversed, I have been in this position. I had been on sub for 2 years and every so often my husband would make a comment about me stopping the sub or tapering. I used to think about it all the time anyways and felt like such a failure as I had thought I should be off of it the moment I got on it. I felt guilty for NOT wanting to decrease my dose. I felt like if I decreased it and I didn't like it that I would be stuck at that dose and could never go back up. I was happy in general. And then there were moments where I didn't want to be on the sub and I wanted to have a normal life. I wanted to get through the addiction and be done with it. I didn't feel like my husband would understand. What if I got off of it and was miserable? It was a stressful topic and since I was already thinking about it all the time on my own, any time I felt even the slightest bit more pressure the walls would go up. I was scared.

I don't think you are enabling him. I think you should completely remove the pressure and just ask questions. When he brings it up, ASK, based on what he is saying. If he says he wants to taper, ask him why. After he responds, ask him what he thinks might be stopping him from doing it. Ask if he is afraid of anything other than the physical withdrawal side of it. Ask if there is anything you can do to support him with or without tapering. Ask if he feels stable enough to make adjustments. It sounds like he wants someone to talk to about it without being judged or pressured. If what YOU want is for him to be off it, then I suggest you don't pressure him and focus on supporting him. Again, you are NOT enabling him in any negative way. Presumably he is living his life and doing well. (Who would ever "want" to rock that boat anyways :-) He might really be picking up on the fact that this is what everyone expects of him and is just trying to tell you that he wants to appease you, but isn't sure if he is ready or if he can. He may actually want to engage in the discussions around why he DOESN'T want to get off of it and is hoping you will accept that and support him in his current recovery plan. When that doesn't happen, he gets defensive and frustrated.

I would be interested in hearing what you think about this. I don't want to keep trailing on about it if I am totally off base.

Cherie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 5:00 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 3
Thank you so much for the responses and the questions, i greatly appreciate it and have no problem answering them.. Yes he has been on the subs for the past 4 years, he has relapsed once before when he first started taking the subs and ended up really scaring himself and dropping out of college because of the pressure tha the was feeling. I asked about the importance of why he took the suboxone route and why he why he goes back and forth on why he wants to take them and esp. why he wants to stop taking them if they are helping him, and he says that taking them make him feel like he can accomplish the day to days tasks, but hates to feel like he has to rely on something to get him through the day and thats why he wants to taper yet is scared he will go back to the way that he was before and he doesnt want to be there again.

As for the recovery after the tapering, he has a scheduled out plan that he believes will help him through everything, he has always been in amazing physical shape, works out and runs on a daily basis, and eats very healthy now. he has colaborated with some old trainers who are more than willing to work with him through the process and offer any advice and support that they can. His family are split between states and relies on friends to be there, myself included, and has said that he would have no hesitation in having someone next to him if and when he decides to do this, ill be there irregaurdless of what he decides to do, i just cant understand the back and forth on the decision, but i have never been in that position and im trying to be as supportive as i possibly can.

As for the pressure in the conversations, or the thought that i am the one wanting him off of the suboxone, there is no pressure from me. he knows that i will support him no matter what his decision is and will do whatever i can to help him through the choice, whether it stay as is or he tapers. when the convo does come up i ask questions there are aspects that i simply do not understand and i feel like i can be of no help when i dont understand why he is thinking the way that he is. he makes statements about tapering, not tapering, the abuse of the meds prior to and then begins to debate back and forth and then looks at me, waiting for me to weigh in on the situation, and when i give a perspective that he may not have looked at thats when he begins to get irritated and i just apologize and drop the subject feeling like i caused the change in attitude. i dont judge anyone for the choices they make in life, and but im confused on how to handle the situation so that it works out in his favor.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 5:08 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Hi again Trying,

I understand where your friend is coming from and I don't think those feelings are unusual. Many people don't want to "rely" on something...a pill. I've heard many people on this forum who feel the same way your friend does. Personally, I try to think of it this way...opiate addiction KILLS. If a pill treats it, then I'll rely on that pill. Just like a diabetic relies on their insulin.

But it's something each individual must comes to term with on their own. Maybe he could start tapering down VERY slowly and just see how he does. He can always go back up to his prior dose. Pleases know he's not alone in feeling this way.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:48 pm 
Offline
New Poster
New Poster

Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 11:52 pm
Posts: 3
Thank you Hat... A positive conversation was had between us on what his feelings were with everything, and i just listened to him talk through everything and when it got hard for him to talk he stopped, calmed down and rejoined the conversation... he knows that i want him to do whatever is best for him because im not in his mind and i dont share the same day to day life that he does and that we are both being as patient as possible with ea. other through all of this. He came to me with the decision that he is going to do a medical withdrawal instead of the tapering, and im not quite sure how it works to be honest. If the subs are blocking receptors, and the flush wipes everything out of someones system then what happens to the receptors?? have you heard or know anything about this? thank you for being so helpful and giving me wonderful advice and aspects that i may not see!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:42 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
It sounds like you had a really good talk. I think that's great. So by medical withdrawals does he mean rapid detox? There was a thread a while back on that subject. It may be "quick" but it does nothing for long-term recovery or sobriety. Plus it usually costs tens of thousands of dollars. But until we know for sure that's what he's referring to, I'll leave it at that.

Again, I'm glad you guys talked.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:23 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:03 pm
Posts: 991
Why don't you try recommending this site to your friend so he can talk to other people who have been through it. He can bounce all these different thoughts by people who have had them and made different choices based on them. He can learn from the outcomes of their experiences.

The bottom line is that there is no easy way out of addiction. Where have I seen before that addiction is the only disease you literally have to convince people they have despite all the symptoms. Like cancer, he has it. Period. No rapid detox or taper or anything is going to take it away. It goes far beyond the physical withdrawal. I went off suboxone for three months. The physical withdrawal was the EASY part. It is what comes after that he will have to really deal with. He needs people who know what he is going through. To be honest, trainers post withdrawal aren't going to keep him away from drugs and he is probably going to find that isn't the right kind of support or enough of it. This is just my opinion based on my experience and what I have seen from others posted on this forum.

In my opinion, if you really want to help him, you will encourage him to fully explore all options including possibly staying on suboxone. You would encourage him to get a therapist and make this decision with his therapist and his suboxone doctor.

Cherie


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:01 pm 
Offline
One Month or More
One Month or More

Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:14 pm
Posts: 30
tryingtohelphim21,

In your original post you say that you feel like "an enabler". I just wanted to chime in on this one and make sure you understood that people don't get "high" off suboxone except maybe for the first day or two. He can't really self-medicate like one would with opiates with the suboxone. It has a fixed ceiling effect that leaves a person feeling normal but doesn't give the patient a buzz, no matter how much they take.

Provided your friend isn't doing anything naughty like diverting his meds or snorting/IVing the suboxone he really shouldn't be in active addiction. Is he dosing once a day? Has he broken the take a pill=feel good obsession? If so, he's benefited greatly from suboxone in that he's relearned normal behavior and that's a huge part of recovery.

You probably know all this but, on the other hand, a lot of people mistakenly think of suboxone as a "legal opiate". Someone that is dosing the right way, once a day, and isn't abusing alternate drugs like alcohol or benzos should be out of active addiction and, despite being dependent on the subs, living a normal and sober life. Personally, I wouldn't consider taking him to the doctor to be enabling. If, on the other hand, you were taking him to get oxycodone or taking him ER shopping, that would be obsession.

Read some of the taper threads here (or better yet show them to him). Most of the success stories involve slow/long tapers that lesson the shock of changing doses. I would hate to see your friend taper too quickly and end up relapsing because of PAWs.

Let us know how he does and see if he'll join up here. I can say that this forum has give me an incredible amount of support during my recovery.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group