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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:28 am 
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Im ready to start cutting back after reading this...
What do you guys think?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:58 am 
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Just another fire that gets lite under my ass, I see the word " frustration " several times in this article. my Doc ( 40yrs exp. ) told me the other day he knows everything about suboxone, said even after I've tapered off suboxone slowly , I will be frustrated very easy.. I guess I better start throwing the crumbs I chip off my sub. AWAY


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:47 am 
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Wow a summary written by some random person....... I'll definately trust what he has to say over someone who's been to med school... I'm tempted to write an article about the existence of Bigfoot based on my own summary of posts on forums and then not list any peer reviewed sources from which I obtained my knowledge. In fact why do we even need doctors or anyone with any kind of experience other than their own?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:08 pm 
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sullimi how low of a dose are yo down to? I'm under .5mg...it's so hard to break the little pills up now.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Gah! That FAQ has been circulating every Suboxone and anti-Suboxone forum for years now. Reading stuff like that used to freak me out...before I tapered off Suboxone and quit it successfully myself.

Let me tell you guys something. Everyone has an opinion. Addicts are generally not people who tolerate any kind of discomfort well. I am not a person who tolerates discomfort well.

Nevertheless, I was on Suboxone for two years. I decided that my taper was going to be sucessful and as painless as possible. Instead of listening to "those people" on the internet, I decided to listed to two doctors: my own Sub doctor and Dr. Junig. I tapered slowly, reducing a little bit at at time...and no, it was not some long-drawn out hell. I had a few days of mild symptoms with each decrease in dose, then I gave myself a week or two of stability before I dropped again. I exercised a LOT to get my natural endorphin production up. And no, it wasn't hard for me to control myself. At no time did I think: Shit, I should just take a bunch more Suboxone so I'll feel great!

I am now five months off Suboxone and I do not have PAWS. I have good days and bad days, but I attibute them more to what's going on with my life than anything. My dad died, I went back to school, I live in the Pacific Northwest (where SAD is just a fact of life), I have problems with my thyroid, various other life stresses, etc. And despite all of that, I am not using. I am happy to be alive. Good days far outnumber the bad. When I have a bad day, I know it's just that: A Bad Day, and I know I can handle it and it will pass. That's life, right?

Now, since I said at the start of this rant that everyone has an opinion, I'm going to give you mine. If you are going to read Suboxone taper and withdrawal stories, read POSITIVE ones. Because your mind and your attitude have a lot to do with this. I didn't read any when I was doing the end of my taper, because I just didn't need the power of suggestion, you know.

One last thing - Starting to taper because you're scared isn't going to give you a good foundation. Start when you are ready - ready because your life is stable, you have a supportive network of friends and loved ones, your health is good, you've developed the habits of eating well and exercising, you've done some work on your underlying issues, you know how you will handle your pain without drugs, and you've developed some competence in dealing with your emotions, and you have a plan for how you will continue your recovery post-suboxone. And then have a reasonable taper plan.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Just FYI, I did a little checking and the FAQ linked above was written by "Ratch" who is an Admin at the SubSux forum. He posts it EVERYWHERE and it has become a bit of interntet Suboxone Gospel.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:20 pm 
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I'm sorry I didn't mean to cause anyone any anxiety. I got this article in an email late last night and yes I was very concerned. For me Suboxone has been a miracle - but I keep getting this feeling that something so good has to have a negative side effect somewhere.

DOAQ, thank you for responding, your experiences and insight are invaluable. I have literally been bouncing off the walls since I started my Sub treatment, I have been working out, mostly cardio and Ill keep increasing my workout times. I do want to taper off but as painlessly as possible. Today is my13th day on Suboxone, I have been taking a 8mg dose once a day. Today I took 4mg - I have been feeling great, I think I'm ready. Is going from 8mg to 4mg to much of a taper?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:30 pm 
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I hope my previous post doesn't make me look like too much of a jerk I was just trying to say that reading one random person's summary of Suboxone treatment isn't really enough to make a decision at least to me. So I'm sorry to the original poster if you only posted the link with good intentions or hoping to help others. I along with many others here have seen too many posts on other sites that say Suboxone is the worst thing ever. I hope everyone here realizes that Suboxone isn't going to work for every single opiate addict but I'm very happy to see another tool to keep some opiate addicts alive. I guess I'm really pro anything that keeps our fellow comrades from being added to the list of tens of thousands of opiate addicts who die every year. I also was trying to point out that if we rely on one person's opinion then we end up with things like: since I've only met one person from Germany and he's a jerk so according to my research 100% of Germans are jerks! lol that's just a bunch of nonsense....to me at least.

Anywho Mitch you should be fine at 4mgs (in my own humble and relatively worthless opinion) and I remember Diary of a Quitter sharing that there was no discomfort in tapering until she got under 2mgs. Suboxone has an extremely long half-life so you might want to wait a few days after begining to taper more as Suboxone(bupe) has a long half-life. I wish you much success and keep posts coming all :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:52 pm 
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Its raining like crazy today and I just spent 3 hours on the stationary bike. Exercise really makes me feel better. Most of the time now I feel like Ive had too much Starbucks but in a good way :) I really just want to get on with my life w/o any meds or worrying about am I taking too much, am I taking enough... and Matt I didn't think you were out of line, I assumed you're more frustrated with the whole negative misinformation thing and not me personally.

I'm just trying to get through this as painlessly and smoothly as possible.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:08 pm 
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DOOAQ, I'm also from the NW. When I got to sunny places I feel so much better...I wonder if the NW is condusive to addicts? Weird.

So i'm down under .5 mg.... Mitch when you say you feel like you've had too much starbucks what do you mean? I feel pretty good but I feel a bit anxious almost at all times..it's weird.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:40 pm 
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Another bullshit post. I hope they delete that crap. And again I hope no newcomers read that horse shit.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:50 pm 
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hawker1 wrote:
Mitch when you say you feel like you've had too much starbucks what do you mean? I feel pretty good but I feel a bit anxious almost at all times..it's weird.

I feel like, if I'm in the kitchen and there are dishes, Ill wash, rinse, dry and put them away before I even give it a thought. I can't hardly sit still long enough to watch a movie. I'm re-caulking the bathtub/shower and putting in new fixtures... Ive just got 3 or 4 little projects going all the time on top of my re-discovered love of bike riding. The down side is I don't have much patients especially for chit chatting on the phone and little things. I really have to give myself a talk as I'm pulling out of the garage to just be calm and don't get the road-rage. I sleep fine though, very weird. I'm thinking about asking my MD for a low dose of Xanax.

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Another bullshit post. I hope they delete that crap. And again I hope no newcomers read that horse shit.
Maybe you should read the entire thread before you run your mouth.

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Last edited by Mitch on Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:59 pm 
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Maybe you should respect the people in this forum and not post bullshit that's been out for years.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:04 pm 
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That all goes both ways my friend. Lets see if we can get over it and try to act like grownups now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:27 pm 
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Mitch, don't be offended by ronnieSr79, he's an unhappy pain in the ass...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:15 pm 
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Mitch wrote:
Im ready to start cutting back after reading this...
What do you guys think?


I recognize where most of the literature of this pure utter bullshit came from. As soon a I read the words "failure from sub" a memory of the forum "Subsux" came to me. The person who wrote most of this is some tumbling, tumbling dickweed who goes by the alias "Ratchet." This total dickwad thinks he is fixing things but all he is doing is scaring the shit out of everyone.

Most people who do a slow steady taper, who stay positive shouldn't go through any extreme post acute withdrawal at all really. Any PAW, if there is any, will disappear in a few months if you taper at your brains pace to heal. It doesn't make a difference how long you've been on sub, except the fact that you will be more successful with your course of treatment.
All those people on those ant-sub websites are just miserable people, who were miserable before they even had opiate addictions, so wouldn't make sense that they would be miserable afterwords.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:02 pm 
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I took a few minutes to look at Subsux and some of this “Ratchet” character’s work. Any credibility was immediately dismissed. I won’t even waste my time reviewing the garbage I saw posted.

Before I took my first Suboxone dose I had made my mind up that I was going to make this work for me. Fortunately for me the Suboxone treatment has exceeded my expectations ten times over.

I’m sorry this article is old news to a lot of people but since it is garbage maybe it’s better to debunk it as often as necessary. As far as newcomers who don’t know any better, you don’t want to discourage them or anyone else from asking questions. This forum and everyone from the moderators to people who’ve only been here a few days have been very helpful to me and I am very grateful to be able to discuss and share very personal stuff that's going on in my (and your) life right now.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:16 pm 
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Mitch, it's good to find out the truth early about Subsux, and other BS that is out there. People need to know that the people from Subsux are just totally out of their minds. Ratch is only the beginning, these people want to bring you down to their level so you can be just as miserable. They actually think Suboxone is an evil drug. Yes, they use the word "evil" about this medication, and they blame everything that goes wrong in their lives on it. Instead of blaming their unhappiness on opioid addiction and their fast food, drive thru diets, they place sole blame on this drug. Don't fall for any of it for one minute.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:54 am 
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Is the stuff about stopping Suboxone within 21 days of use true? If it is, that's pretty significant.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:01 am 
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Mitch,

Good work handling Ronnie...I can't imagine why he's so unhappy and....i don't even have the words really. Unecessarily angry? Anyway.... sorry about your anxiety. Mine comes and goes but I can definately relate. Working out seems to be my only cure. After I work out I feel good for a while.


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