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 Post subject: Very Interested
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:19 pm 
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I apologize for being ignorant and not reading around before asking this, but I have a few questions about getting onto suboxone. Before I get into that, I would like to inform you a bit about myself. If you want to just skip my story, feel free to skip the next block of paragraphs.

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I am going to be 21 years old in a couple of months, and it wasn't until about exactly a year ago that I tried my first opiate, percocet. I got percocet from time to time from my girlfriend's mother. It wasn't something that she knew about, and she still doesn't. My girlfriend acquired it for me, and since then I have even gotten her into pills. As it turns out, my girlfriend's mom has cabinets filled with very large quantities of pain killers, and since then I have tried out oxycodone, hydrocodone, and codeine. Each of these I have taken in several different forms (vicodin, lortab, percocet, tylenol 4, etc...).

The most recent thing we have tried out has been Fentanyl, and we have only found it to be worth smoking. Of course, I am not proud of all of this, and it does have to stop at some point. There is only so much we can take before things start to become noticeable, and believe me, we have probably taken 500 percocet pills, maybe 1000 vicodin, and hundreds of other types of pills (sleeping pills, benzos, methylphenidate). It must be noted that I have not spent too much time in the past year going through withdrawal; my girlfriend and I have always had the pills we needed, and we have even made hour long drives to her house in the early morning hours to sneak in and get more.

I must also say that I am not your typical pill popper; and I have strong beliefs that many people feel that way, as this problem is around every corner of the world. I am a junior at my state's University, and I am also a computer programmer for a web development organization. I have a website of my own that gets up to one million page views per month, and I would consider myself to be a good person.

Now here comes my questions.

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First off, how difficult is it to be prescribed suboxone. Do I have to go to rehab first? My biggest concern here is that my mom doesn't know that I do this, and I wouldn't break her heart even to clean up myself. Is this something a regular doctor can prescribe me if I tell him my story? Remember, I'm young, and have never went through this process before.

Also, is this something that you can be prescribed "for life", or only during the recovering process? While I do desire to quit taking opiates, I do believe there will always be that part of me, at least so far in life as a college student, that will want to try it "just one more time". Maybe on very rare, special occasions.

I was thinking I had more things to ask, and if they come up, I will post them here. :)

Thank you


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:22 pm 
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Hi anonymous, glad you found us.

You don't have to go to rehab to get Suboxone. Different doctors have different programs. Some require you to be in outpatient treatment or in therapy or go to meetings, some do not.

Some doctors will only prescribe Suboxone for short-term detox purposes, some will do it for 6 months or a year, others will do long-term maintenance.

My advice would be go to the Suboxone website or to NAABT.org. The Suboxone site has a list of providers by zip code, you can call around and ask about how their Sub programs work. NAABT has a similar list, and also has a doctor-patient matching service which my best friend and I both used to find our Sub doctors.

About "not being a typical pill popper" - there is no typical opiate addict. There is a sterotype of opiate addiction, but in reality opiate addiction affects people from all backgrounds. Having an addiction doesn't mean you're a bad or immoral person - it's just bad luck really.

Suboxone is a great tool for recovery, but you also have to be willing to change your life. Good luck, I hope you find the help you need.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:30 pm 
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Thanks for sharing your story Anon,
I think it's great that your trying to do something about your disease before you start losing everything you value in your life. For me at least the longer I continued to use opiates the more severe consequences I began to suffer, the more relationships I lost permanently, the more friends and family I alienated, the more money I lost, the more I continued to dissapoint myself, and the list goes on and on. So basically I'm saying I think it's wonderful you're trying to be proactive. I think most would agree that at this point your two bets would be to either get into an inpatient facility and be prepared to stay as long as you can and continue IOP afterwords, start going to meetings, and continue aftercare literally take all their suggestions of staying in treatment as long as possible. Suboxone on the other hand can be prescribed by any Doc with a special DEA permit you can find Dr.s in your area using NAABT.org. You don't have to go inpatient I wouldn't think most places to be prescribed Suboxone it's just a matter of finding a Dr. who can prescribe it and being willing and able to follow his/her directions after you get into see him/her and able to pay for appointments and the medication itself. Usually you have several appointments the first week so if your paying out of pocket it can be somewhat pricey depending on your Doc but in my opinion well worth it (either way alot less pricey than going inpatient for 30days or continuing to use drugs). I'd also like to add that while Suboxone has made recovery alot easier than it would have been without it I still had to put alot of work into my recovery. First I had to be willing to be honest with my Doc and follow his directions, second I had stop using the other drugs I used to deal with withdrawals etc, third I had to cut all relationships with friends who continued to use drugs, and I had to realize I wasn't nearly as "special" as I thought I was I had to start going by the same rules as everyone else I realized thinking I wasn't the typical addict made me by definition like every other addict(we think we're so special and unique :). I also had to really take a good hard look at where my life was going and realized (from my several O.D.'s) that if I continued to not actively do anything to radically change how I was living my life I was going to end up dead in the very, very near future. One last thing you can find some doctors willing to keep patients on maintenance indefinately but there seem to be more just a few in my experience who only believe in temporary treatment. This might be something you want to check into before deciding on a doc. Anyways good luck to you and many of us here are always willing to answer any questions you might have based on our own experiences so don't hesitate to ask.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Thanks for the replies. As a college student, my options are limited as I live out here without a car, and I do not wish to have to miss a large quantity of school going into treatment. I also do not have any insurance right now, and am working hard just to pay my bills. I have never invested a dime into my addiction, which makes me fairly lucky, as if my source ran out I know I would be willing to pay real cash for my meds.

I have one more question. This may be a bit strange... Does the law get involved in things like this? Or can they? Is there a chance that I go to the doctor and then end up going to jail? Because if I tell the doctor my story, I would obviously be telling him things that would get me into trouble if the police were to find out.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:03 pm 
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Are you asking if your doctor can report your drug use to the police?

No. There is doctor-patient confidentiality.

Reckitt (Suboxone manufacturer) has a needy meds program for low-income peeps with no insurance. You get the pills for free, you just have to pay for a doctor.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:29 pm 
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Hi Anon,

How much opiate have you been using daily? If you've only averaged a few pills per day over less than a year it may be over-kill to go on long term Suboxone therapy. It's hard to imagine you could have developed a serious opiate addiction by swiping pills undetected from your girlfriend's mom.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:16 am 
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Well I am sure no expert but like everyone else can share my story and tell you what I found. Well it's not really my story but my kid's. She is young like you she's 19, has been messing with pills all types since she was 15, first xans then opiates. TI will say the pill use was at first not daily and became daily about 6 months ago but she abused when she did take, even when it was sporadic. Even when using moderately her life fell apart, she barely graduated... blah blah blah. Then someone gave her some heroin and this was her first REAL addiction. I know I say that wrong but it was the first time she ever had any OMG where is my shit first thing in the morning...sick if she didn't have it, and spent money she didn't have...ruined relationships...this lasted 3 to 4 months. So she comes for help, with the real truth sick as hell, withdrawing, shaking, sick...and she tells me of suboxone. We live in a small town, there is one doc that has the license to dispense it, each doc can only have 100 patients if that is still true...it cost me 310 for visit one, 210 for visit two, then 150 thereafter. Medicaid covered her pills thank god. You wont have trouble finding a doctor, but when I tried in the city there were waiting lists and they were cheaper but that is a 180 mile trip for me so we stayed local. Not the best doc but available. He takes personal calls while we are sitting there and is very brief with his answers and if I relied on him, well, forget that. So I got on here and read and read. I read medical journals, I wrote to Dr. Junig and he writes back. He believes in maintenance and in some cases I would guess short term although he believes that long term gives you a better recovery rate and that is true. Some people I read about will be on it for life. Well I took all into consideration and since my kid is so young and I am really hoping the short BAD addiction phase will play a factor, it's a gamble I know...but I am looking for a short term. She has done fantastic so far. I started her on 12. then went to 10 for a day then got brave and went to 8 for a few days, then 6 for a day, held at 5 for a few days. The last two days she has been on 3! I am dropping her to 2 on Saturday. This is day 14. I know very fast but she has not had one craving, not one withdraw other than twice her body jerked, but no leg twitches, no upset stomach, she is sleeping....so far so good. Now the going gets tricky when you get below 2 mgs or so I have read. That is when the withdraw may set in for her. I plan to spend a month at least dropping from 2 to zero. I hope it goes smooth. I have her in counseling and she is not to thrilled about it but is going willingly of her own accord. I have my doubts as to how long she will hang with that. If I had it my way, permanently but it is unlikely. She will go as long as I drag that last drop out. She has made few life changes but not enough and I hope she sticks with it. She is determined.
You said you may still want to use again perhaps on and off in the future did you not?? Bad move. I preach to my kid, you have to never touch an opiate again. I read alot on the changes that take place in the brain. All about receptors and you should do some studying on that. I then explain it to my dumbass daughter in ways that she can understand. I have learned that in order for your brain to "Heal" you have to be off all opiates including sub or your receptors will never reteach themselves to naturally throw off your feel good hormones on their own again. This takes time and you will feel cranky and irritated and I have read lots and lots of survivor stories and some relapse, some stay strong and make it through and some stay on a dose of sub. Of course in my master plan my kid makes it.....but man from what I've read you gotta really want it and it has to become the most important thing and you have to be tough and strong and fight for your life....Not one person said it was easy although the taper stories vary...some easy...some hard and I found more long term sub users had more trouble jumping than short term sub. The length of their addictions all varied. Some just dont want to stop, some are going crazy trying to get off subs at very low doses and some have success but ALL agree that long or short sub saved them.
So that is our story and I urge you to find the money so you can get SUB, then work out your own success story but you need to give up on that idea about wanting to use them now and again. Dont worry, you are young, you will have surgeries and injuries that will require these drugs and I hope you tread carefully. I went through all this fun once with an addicted husband and finally had to cut him loose and he still uses and has lost everything, his family, home, no job, no car, lives with his mom and all he does is sleep and be depressed or so I hear. So I can only hope my kid really wants to help herself because I cant do it for her, I can just help her with the money and guide her and teach her what I learn. This place is an excellent site full of wonderful people. So read and study and get the money and HAVE THE STRONGEST DESIRE EVER TO KEEP YOUR LIFE INTACT. Don't worry about the law and your Mom may flip at first but then she will help you because she is your MOM. worry first and foremost about you and concentrate on how good you will feel when this shit is all over with. Like my girl...you are so young!!! Do you know what that is worth???? A whole life stretches out in front of you, success, love, family, laughter, feel good kodak moments....all waiting....I know I am pouring it on but your story hits home for me. I dont even know you but I wish you everything that I wish for my daughter. You can do it.


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 Post subject: my 2 cents...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:17 pm 
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Hello!
Glad you wrote your story for the first time... I read your post a few times, and truthfully, it seems like you are really not ready to make a change. you said you need "help at some point". Is that point now? you are getting meds for free, havent had withdrawals yet and are not really aware that opiate dependence has nothing to do with being a good person. I know college is a time to party and have fun (I had a blast in college and my graduate degree, and am a practicing therapist). There has to be a certain level of panic, of fear, of innate understanding that what you are doing is going to hurt you, or is hurting you. There needs to be the pit in your stomach that doesnt go away... What is your reason for wanting to take suboxone? are you ready to stop now? your friends mother will still have the pills available, why wont you take them in a month from now? I am not trying to be condescending or negative, I just want to give you somehting to chew on so you do things for the right reason... You dont owe me, or anyone else any answers, but be truthful with yourself, do you really think you have a problem? have you had the taste of withdrawal at all? would you buy your pills off the street if you couldnt swipe them from your friends mother?being good, being smart, being successful is a wonderful thing, and has absoultely NOTHING to do with opiate addiction... It has nothing to do with willpower, good vs bad, etc... you need to have a working understanding of action and consequence and then act accordingly. I am happy to listen, offer feedback, and I am a straight shooter, call a spade a spade. what brought you to this site? are you starting to have warning bells go off in your head, or are you still in the frame of mind that you can quit whenever you want, and you are really "different"? think about it and please share your thoughts!

Best...


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Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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