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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:39 pm 
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HELLO EVERYONE:

SINCE I HAVE BEEN READING ALL THE POSTS ON THE FORUM I NOTICE MANY PEOPLE ARE TAKING THEIR DOC TO GET OFF SUBOXONE, AND/OR BENZO'S TO HELP EASE THE PAIN OF WITHDRAWAL. FIRST I WANT TO SAY I AM NOT AGAINST PEOPLE DOING THIS AS I KNOW THE HORRORS OF WITHDRAWAL,AND ALSO DO NOT WANT TO GET INTO A DEBATING MATCH ABOUT VALIUM. I KNOW WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT AND HANDLE MEDS. DIFFERENTLY. I WOULD LIKE, HOWEVER, TO SHARE WITH YOU A STORY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO ME WHILE TAKING VALIUM.

IN THE LATE 60'S 68,69,70...WE GAVE OUT A LOT OF VALIUM, LIBRIUM, QUALUDE, MILLTOWN, PLACIDYLL, CHLORAL HYDRATE , SECONAL, NEBUTAL, AND TUINAL. (IWAS A STUDENT NURSE AT THE TIME) WE DID NOT EVEN COUNT ANYTHING BUT THE LAST THREE ABOVE. THEY WERE CALLED BARBITUATES. THERE WERE NO BENZO'S YET. NOW THEY CALL VALIUM A BENZO, BUT IT IS REALLY A BARBITUATE. WHEN THEY CAME OUT WITH THE BENZOS IT WAS TO WORK FASTER AND HAVE A SHORTER HALF/LIFE FOR THE PATIENT THUS BEING LESS ADDICTIVE..HO HO HO...

ANYWAY....LONG STORY SHORT..IN 1981 MY HUSBAND SUFFERED A MASSIVE M.I. AND ALMOST DIED..HE WAS 33 Y/O, 32 INCH WAIST, WELL BUILT, NEVER HAD CHEST PAIN, DIDN'T SMOKE,...RARELY DRANK...MAYBE AN OCCASTIONAL BEER...AND HAD NO HISTORY OF HYPERTENSION OR HIGH CHOLESTEROL. WE WORKED THROUGH A MO. OF HELL AND HE FINALLY HAD BYPASS SURG. AND CAME HOME WITH 100 10MG. VALIUM WITH AN OPEN REFILL, AND TYLENOL #3 (HYDROCODONE HAD NOT COME OUT YET). LATER THE TYLENOL#3 WAS REPLACED WITH LORCET 7.5MG.....

AT THIS TIME I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT ADDICTION.....THEY DID NOT TEACH US ABOUT THAT IN NURSING SCHOOL!!
MY HUSBAND NEVER TOOK THE VALIUM..IT HAD BEEN USED BEFORE HIS SURG. OCCASIONALLY HE WOULD TAKE A HYDROCODONE FOR PAIN IN HIS STERNUM FROM THE WIRES THAT THEY HAD USED TO SEW HIS STERNUM BACK TOGETHER. I WAS A NERVOUS WRECK, WORRIED TO DEATH ABOUT HIM. WE HAD TWO BABIES..LITTLE BOYS, AND MY DAD HAD DIED OF AN M.I. WHEN HE WE ONLY 40. I WAS 12 Y/O AND MY YOUNGER BROTHER WAS 8...I JUST KEPT PRAYING THAT MY HUSBAND WOULD LIVE TO RAISE OUR BOYS...

AT NIGHT I WOULD FEEL HIS CHEST TO SEE IF HE WAS BREATHING, ETC..I COULD NOT SLEEP. I DECIDED I WOULD TAKE ONE OF HIS VALIUMS TO SLEEP AND IT WORKED SO WELL. I DID THIS FOR A LONG TIME AND THEN IT DIDN'T WORK ANYMORE SO I BEGAN TAKING 2....AND SO ON...UNTIL I WAS UP TO 4 10MG. PER NIGHT TO SLEEP...I ALSO HAD MIGRAINES AND I TOOK ONE OF HIS HYDROCODONES FOR THAT AND IT HELPED SO MUCH I STARTED TAKING THOSE EVERYTIME I HAD A MIGRAINE! THIS WENT ON FOR WELL OVER A YEAR AND THE ONE DAY WHEN I WENT TO GET THE VALIUM REFILLED THE PHARM. SAID THEY WOULD HAVE TO CALL THE DR. I DIDN'T REALLY WANT THE DOCTOR TO KNOW I HAD BEEN TAKING HIS VALIUMS, SO I TOLD THE PHARM. IT WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY.

I WAS SO DUMB ABOUT ADDICTION THAT I WENT HOME AND HAD 4 OR 5 STILL IN THE BOTTLE AND JUST FLUSHED THEM THINKING I PROBABLY DIDN'T NEED TO TAKE THAT STUFF NOW ANYWAY. WITHIN 24 HRS, I BEGAN TO HAVE AN EARACHE IN MY LEFT EAR...IT JUST KEPT GETTING WORSE...THEN IT MOVED INTO MY CHEST AND I THOUGH I WAS THE ONE HAVING THE HEART ATTACK! I HAD A HYPER SENSE OF SMELL AND TASTE. I COULD NOT EAT OR DRINK ANYTHING SWEET..I REMEMBER HAVING TO DRINK CLUB SODA....WHEN I OPENED A CAN OF VEGETABLES I COULD SMELL THE TIN IN THE CAN MORE THAN THE FOOD IN THE CAN...I COULD WALK BY MY CLOSET (WHERE I KEEP MY KOTEX,ETC) AND I COULD SMELL THE KOTEX. THE DISHWASHER RAN CONSTANTLY, OVER AND OVER AGAIN...I WOULD TELL MY HUSBAND TO PLEASE TURN OFF THE DISHWASHER AND HE WOULD TELL ME IT WAS NOT ON! ONE DAY AS HE (HUSBAND) WENT TO WORK HIS HEAD WAS BIGGER THAN HIS BODY..HE LOOKED LIKE TOPPER OR SOMETHING...AND THERE WERE THESE SOUNDS CONSTANTLY HITTING THE ROOF OF THE HOUSE. THEY SOUNDED LIKE ACORNS OR SOMETHING BUT THEY WOULD HIT THE ROOF AND THEN TRINKLE DOWN AND FALL OFF. ONE DAY I WENT OUTSIDE TO SEE WHAT THE HELL IT WAS AND IT WAS RAINING ACORNS! THEY WERE POURING FROM THE SKY JUST LIKE RAIN...I COVERED MY EYES TO PROTECT THEM. THEN I WENT AND CALLED MY HUSBAND TO SEE IF IT WAS RAINING ACORNS WHERE HE WAS.....THAT IS WHEN HE TOOK ME TO THE DOCTOR.

I CAN REMEMBER MY SKIN CRAWLING AND SOME DAYS I TOOK 5 SHOWERS JUST TO BE UNDER HOT WATER AND RUBBING MY SKIN WITH A WASHCLOTH...ALSO I HAD A HYPER SENSE OF SOUND..EVERYTHING WAS SO LOUD IT WOULD MAKE ME JUMP. I ALSO COULD NOT SEE AS WELL ..COULD NOT READ A NEWPAPER WITH MY CONTACTS IN....I DID NOT SLEEP FOR 2 WKS SOLID..NOT A WINK AND I WOULD TURN OVER AND OVER IN THE BED..RT. SIDE, ABD., LT. SIDE, BACK, AND REPEAT...I SWEATED THROUGH MY NIGHTGOWN IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY WET IN THE AM AS WELL AS MY PILLOW AND MY SIDE OF THE BED AND MY HAIR.

MY HUSBAND TOOK ME TO HIS DR. AND WHILE HE WAS EXAMINING ME HE ASKED MY WHY MY HUSBAND WAS TAKING SO MANY VALIUM. I TOLD HIM I WAS TAKING THEM TO BE ABLE TO SLEEP. WHEN HE ASK ME HOW MANY AND I TOLD HIM 40MG AT NIGHT HE SAID THAT WAS AN ADDICTIVE DOSE. TO BE SUCH A GOOD NURSE, I WAS SURE DUMB ABOUT ME.I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT AN ADDICTIVE DOSE MEANT.

I AM SORRY THIS HAS BEEN SO LONG. I GOT OFF THE VALIUM AND GOT ADDICTED TO THE HYDROCODONE, MY DOC. BUT I ALWAYS MANAGED TO HAVE PLENTY OF BENZO'S AROUND SO I COULD SLEEP AFTER BEING "UP" ALL DAY ON THE HYDROS.

I REALLY BELIEVED AT THE TIME THAT ALL THAT STUFF WAS REALLY HAPPENING...HOW STUPIED CAN I BE?

ANYWAY AFTER A 29 YR ADDICTION WITH HYDRO'S AND BENZO'S I COULD NEVER USE EITHER OF THEM TO HELP ME GET OFF SUB....I WOULD BE OFF AND RUNNING AGAIN....AND AFTER TONS OF TIMES OF WITHDRAWAL FROM HYDROS NOTHING HAS EVER COMPARED TO THE WITHDRAWAL I SUFFERED WITH VALIUM.

I GUESS I WILL HAVE MY CLONIDINE AND THAT'S IT.

ANYWAY 29 YEARS LATER I AM ON SUBUTEX 16MG AND FINALLY FOUND SOMETHING THAT WORKS FOR ME. I AM HAPPIER THAN I HAVE EVER BEEN BECAUSE I AM SOBER, THANK THE GOOD LORD.!!

THANKS FOR LETTING ME RANT.............JUDY


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:18 pm 
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Judy, that is one crazy story, but I'm glad you shared it. I'm actually grateful your husband noticed your issues and took you immediately to see a doctor. Benzo addiction is one of the only addictions(alcohol as well) that can actually KILL you. As I'm sure you know by now. What you experienced is simply amazing(in a terrible way). I've been prescribed Klonopin (2mg) to take AS NEEDED for the past 4 months now. I get 60 of them a month, and it's due to my terrible social anxiety, and paranoia when it comes to certain things. For example, my girlfriend. Every night she goes out with her friends, I am terribly anxious as to when she will be coming home, what she's doing, who she's with. You know how it goes. I was acting like a complete idiot and it would infuriate her. I would always think she was cheating on me, or being unfaithful. Even though I have not once ever caught her talking to another man in a flirting manner, or had seen one email, text message, a myspace or facebook message/comment, and have never heard a voicemail from a man. We spend literally every minute with each other, and not once has she ever gotten a text from someone I "thought" she was cheating on me with. We've been together for over 3 years, and considering we've spent those 3 years in each others companies besides when we are at work, if she was actually cheating, I can't imagine there wouldn't have been at least ONE slip up. Say a text message from a guy saying something like "Last night was great ;)" you know the deal.

So to put it bluntly, my anxiety was really out of hand. When she would go out with her girlfriends to get some drinks on her girls night out, she would often leave her phone in the car since she could never hear in the bar, and she wears very tight jeans(she's 24, and her in prime), so having the phone in her pocket would often be very uncomfortable for her(she has a blackberry, quite big phone so it would cut into her leg when sitting down). So, I would text her...and when I wouldn't get any response...I would literally throw a fit, and bombard her phone's inbox with 30+ text messages asking her why she wasn't answering me, who was she with, accusing of her of being with another man and doing things with him, all the while she's just out with her friends trying to have a good time. So when she could go outside for a cigarette, and go to her car and see her phone with 30+ text messages and 15 missed calls from me, she would assume something was wrong and would call me...and then I would flip out on her for not texting me. It got so bad that I would be so accusing and mean that it would make her cry, and ruin a completely fun night for her when she was doing nothing wrong. Also, every night this happened, I was invited by her to come out with her, but I always turned it down. I always would just say, "keep in touch every so often letting me know you're ok, just a text every couple hours or so" and she would text me to say hi when she could, but it was never enough and I always started problems. It got in the middle of our relationship big time, and we actually broke up about 4 months ago, but have gotten back together since. The klonopin has made me stop worrying about her and what she's doing entirely. When she goes out, I simply say "Have fun! and call me if you need a ride or if you're coming over to the house afterwards, and if we text at all during that time, then great. If not, I'm usually not bothered anymore. Sometimes I find things sketchy, but the mind is a powerful thing and more times than not, when you have anxiety, if you think of something, or a certain scenario in your head for long enough, you actually begin to believe in it. Which is crazy.

The other part of the anxiety that really hurts is the social anxiety part. It's almost impossible for me to sit up and speak to a group of people I don't know. I could never do it in school when I was younger, and I still have a hard time doing it now. At all of my past job interviews, I would skate by by forcing myself and trying to block out the anxiety, and just answer questions as best I could. With my anxiety, answering on the spot questions I haven't prepared an answer for is very hard for me. I often lock up and get stuck saying "Um..well..uh.." etc. When I go out to a social gathering somewhere, and I'm around people I don't know very well, I find it basically impossible to put myself into a conversation because I would always feel like if I didn't know the situation, if I joined the conversation, people would look at me and be like "huh?" and I'd feel foolish. If I go out, I have to be with someone(A wingman) or my girlfriend to feel comfortable. Unless of course I take klonopin beforehand, but then I can't drink because I'll risk blacking out, which is not safe nor is it fun. I already feel alcohol much more strongly with suboxone in my system, and it limits how much I can drink. I drink to obtain a small buzz, to "loosen" up. I'm not someone who drinks to get drunk. Just not my thing, as I don't like being drunk and not being able to barely hold up my own weight, or lose most of my motor function. So the social anxiety is just as bad as the paranoia/insecurity with my girlfriend and faithfulness in our relationship.

So with all of that said, I really feel your pain when it comes to anxiety. I have not developed a dependence on Klonopin yet, because I'm very careful with how I take it now that I know what addiction is like with opiates. Another addiction is something I certainly am trying 110% to avoid...so I only take the klonopin when I know I'm going to need it. My doctor/psychiatrist will only write me for Klonopin though. I told him initially that before I was put on suboxone, I used to be prescribed 0.5mg xanax, twice a day, but he said he wouldn't write me a prescription for xanax because of it's addiction potential in comparison to other benzos, like Klonopin. He said Klonopin was the only benzo he would write me if I felt I really needed a benzo because it has a longer time of on-set and a much longer half-life/duration of action which would make it have less addiction potential, because it would eliminate having to dose multiple times throughout the day, unlike with xanax which has a short half-life, and a rapid onset, and if I have steady anxiety throughout the day, I would need to be taking it upwards of 3 or 4 times per day, which is something he didn't want me having to do, as it's the fast track to addiction. I had never tried Klonopin, but know people who have and have said it works great, and being that it's a benzo like xanax, I figured why not give it a try.

So far it has worked well, although I do have some issues with it. One: The sedation is very apparent if I have to take two 2mg tablets in a day. Much more sedation than the xanax ever gave me. The xanax made me feel more "up" than down, while making me simply not care about much. It did have more memory loss associated with it than the klonopin does though. Another problem I have is, since the Klonopin really takes an hour or two to really start working, I have to know that I'm going to need it ahead of time. I don't really like that. I would like to be able to take it once an episode starts, and have it work right then and there. It's truly hard to know when an episode is going to start, and the Klonopin doesn't knock out a panic attack like xanax does, although it does work better for prolonged anxiety throughout the day because of it's long duration of action like I said. So those are my only issues.

My girlfriend really doesn't like the fact that I take a klonopin because she knows they are addictive if abused, so I go out of my way to let her count them. She also doesn't like it because of how drowsy they make me. When it's getting late, and we are sitting on the couch watching tv, she'll sometimes catch me zoning out, or almost dare I say it "nodding out" like I used to on opiates, if I had taken Klonopin earlier in the day. When she sees me like that, it reminds her of my opiate addiction and the hell we went through TOGETHER with that. She used to have to enable me. If I didn't have money to get my DOC, she would often take money out of her checking account and give it to me, because it absolutely crushed her to see me withdrawaling and in so much pain. So she would RELUCTANTLY enable me in that regard. She also hated me looking so pale, with pin-point pupils, and practically falling asleep for 30 seconds at a time every 10 minutes or so. It's a double edged sword though because she knows my anxiety can get pretty severe, and she's been very happy with the fact that I am not insecure anymore when she decides she would like to go out with her girlfriends. I mean, I've always been insecure with her kind of because again, with the anxiety, my self esteem kind of sucks, and she is a VERY, VERY attractive red-head. She is by far the most beautiful woman I've ever been in a relationship with, and she smokes me in the looks department. It's also been my longest and most serious relationship in all my years of dating. We are planning to get engaged as soon as we get our own apartment in the spring/early summer of 2012, but we've been acting as if we were a married couple ever since we started dating. We never took things slow, we jumped in full speed because we knew we both found exactly what we were looking for in a partner. It was one of those "too good to be true" moments, but it was really true lol.

The other thing though is that like all benzos, tolerance develops quickly, and it has for me with Klonopin. I started out at 0.5mg twice per day, and after 4 months I am at 2mg twice per day because it simply doesn't have the same "anxiety killing" potential that it used to have when I first started it. So far the 2mg knocks out it out when I have an episode, but once that starts not having the same effect, I'm not sure where to go from there. I've come to realize that benzodiazepins are simply "what works" for my anxiety issues, and I've tried so many other methods. I've been to a therapist(still see one for both my substance abuse, and behavioral issues), I've tried other medications like Effexor, Vistaril, which are non narcotic anti depressant/anti anxiety medications to no effect. The effexor would calm me down slightly if it was really bad, but it would never take it away. I would still have 1000 thoughts racing through my mind, sweaty palms, pacing, bouncing my leg up and down whenever I sat. It would do nothing for my social anxiety either. Benzos are simply the only thing that has worked.

In closing, and I know this is a super long message, I just wanted to say that you're very blessed to have gotten out of that valium addiction, as well as the hydrocodone addiction which I'm going to guess is because of suboxone. I hope you've stayed clean and haven't had any relapses on either valium or hydrocodone(it's been years and years now since so thats good). I myself am remaining very careful with my Klonopin dosing, and as I said I think, I only take it when it's necessary. I don't wake up every day and take it expecting anxiety to come. I only take it when and if I feel the anxiety coming on. 4mg per day if needed is a somewhat high of a dose to be taking of it, but I try very hard to never have to take a second pill on a day where I need to dose. I often am left with extras that I bring into my doctor each month for him to dispose of(as he asked me to do from the very start, IF I had extras anyway). It's because of my absolute fear of becoming addicted to benzos even though they are a life-saver that I am not dependent on them already. I've been taking them for 4 months now, and due to my careful routine, I have't succumbed to dependency to Klonopin. There have been many occasions where I've had good weeks, and went 4-5 days without dosing at all, and during those times I have never felt withdrawal symptoms, so I'm very grateful. I can't imagine going through what you did, and you have my utmost respect for dealing with that situaiton, and coming out a better person in the end. It's funny, they marked Benzos as the alternative to barbituates(which are definitely far more deadly), that were non addicting and completely safe. Yet, more and more people end up addicting to benzos and some even die because they are in to deep and think they can kick it cold turkey. That's how seizures happen, and that's how un-needed deaths happen. I know a couple people who are dependent on different benzos(valium, xanax, and ativan) and it hurts to see them in that situation. I never preach to them things like "Oh you don't need that crap, you need to stop" etc etc, because I know for a fact that they need these medications, but I have stressed to them with utmost importance that if and when they decide to stop taking this medication to do so under a doctors care, and under a careful taper plan, and when they do finally come off after tapering, that they still need to be under a doctor's care to make sure they are treated correctly for any kind if post acute withdrawal symptoms -- because even if you taper correctly, you're not completely out of the woods. Your body is still going to be expecting a substance it's used to receiving. I actually stopped one of my best girl friends from making that poor choice of stopping her xanax cold turkey, when she's taking 2 2mg bars, with a maximum daily dose of 3 2mg bars a day. She said she's tired of always forgetting things, and just wants to deal with the anxiety on her own, and do the whole "mind over matter" thing. She wasn't aware that you can die from benzo withdrawal, and she wasn't aware that she was dependent(she's a bit naive) because she never abuses them, and follows the prescriptions orders to the T. She has her routine set, and takes them exactly at the same times each day, and has done so for about a year now. I told her that if you really want to stop, tell your doctor right now, and start a taper regimen with him. You need to get off this stuff under his care, and don't be your own doctor because you could very well be putting your life at risk if you don't do this properly. So now she's begun tapering down, and tells me it's going well.

Anyway, sorry for this really long post. Anyone who reads all of this really deserves a medal. I also just wanted to say that a lot of doctors feel suboxone+benzo is a dangerous combination, and in theory I guess it is since both are downers, but I have never had one situation where I felt the suboxone was made stronger, or gave me any kind of buzz because I introduced a benzo into the mix with it. The two drugs interact just fine with each other, although I can't say if that would be the case for a stronger, fast acting benzo though. Like xanax, or temazepam, or even valium. I've never felt like I was too "down" so to speak, with labored breathing, etc. Suboxone doesn't have that effect on me. The only thing the klonopin does to me is slightly lower my blood pressure when it's active in my system. And it's nothing out of the ordinary either. So while some suboxone doctors really are adamantly against it for their own reasons, it's not impossible to be put on both medications at the same time either. If you really have unmanageable anxiety, and you express it to your doctor, he'll most likely try to put you on an SSRI or SNRI medication at first, to stay away from any other controlled substances(benzos). If they don't work for you, then express that to him. Be honest and sincere, and if he develops some trust in you, you may get put on a benzo even if he stated originally he would not do so. It's usually easier to get on them if you have a positive track-record with your doctor. No positive urine screens, no diversion in dosing or "running out early". If you have a doc who prescribes you monthly but sees you every two weeks, just to check up, and count your prescription(some do this), if you have the proper amount of suboxones when he checks, that's also obviously a good way to build trust. As long as you show you are mature, and capable, and not at risk for abusing meds, they'll usually become a bit more lenient as far as writing a benzo prescription, just don't expect anything too strong. The reason I was bumped up to 2mg of klonopin twice a day is because I see a psychiatrist, not a doctor for my suboxone, and he can also go into my behavior and things like that, and can see better how my anxiety effects me, and can treat it more effectively in my opinion. But, anyway...enough of this letter.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:58 pm 
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Some interesting reading there guys.

The medicine world can really be its own worst enemy at times. So benzos were the non-addictive alternative to barbs? That's funny. Wasn't heroin the non-addictive alternative to morphine? :lol: Something makes me think we won't see the last of these insane ideas.

I'm sorry you guys had to experience benzo addiction pain like that. What I went through pales in comparison, so I won't go into it much. I'm incredibly lucky to never have developed a full on benzo-addiction, but most people I used with were hooked on Xanax, and let me tell you the pain they had to endure when trying to get clean. One now has epilepsy triggered by benzo withdrawal.

Benzos are in some ways more addictive than opiates. A person develops a tolerance to valium faster than heroin. Also their legality, and pill form, make one feel that taking them is more socially accepted. The 'housewives' addiction. It can make it sound oh so innocent.

They have a place in medicine, don't get me wrong, especially in anaesthetics. But they are nothing more than a band-aid for any problem... a band-aid that, upon taking it off, you realise has now made the problem feel worse. These days good doctors treat benzos with the respect they deserve imo. If my doctor handed them out like lollies, I'd get another doctor.

Call me a hippy, but IMO meditation could easily be prescribed in the place of benzos.

Seems we haven't learnt from the valley of the dolls.. yet :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:04 pm 
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I'm like you - I could never use opiates or benzos to aid in my withdrawals from sub. It would put me right back to the beginning, because, again, like you, I was hooked on xanax as well as opiates. I was cold-turkied off over 6 mg a day of xanax, but I was hospitalized at the time and was put on phenobarb to prevent seizures. That's also when I was put on suboxone. I know where you're coming from.


*Slipper - in cyberspace, typing in all caps is equivalent to yelling, maybe you could type normally? Thanks so much. :)

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 Post subject: Re: subox845
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:48 pm 
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Subox845 wrote:
Judy, that is one crazy story, but I'm glad you shared it. I'm actually grateful your husband noticed your issues and took you immediately to see a doctor. Benzo addiction is one of the only addictions(alcohol as well) that can actually KILL you. As I'm sure you know by now. What you experienced is simply amazing(in a terrible way). I've been prescribed Klonopin (2mg) to take AS NEEDED for the past 4 months now. I get 60 of them a month, and it's due to my terrible social anxiety, and paranoia when it comes to certain things. For example, my girlfriend. Every night she goes out with her friends, I am terribly anxious as to when she will be coming home, what she's doing, who she's with. You know how it goes. I was acting like a complete idiot and it would infuriate her. I would always think she was cheating on me, or being unfaithful. Even though I have not once ever caught her talking to another man in a flirting manner, or had seen one email, text message, a myspace or facebook message/comment, and have never heard a voicemail from a man. We spend literally every minute with each other, and not once has she ever gotten a text from someone I "thought" she was cheating on me with. We've been together for over 3 years, and considering we've spent those 3 years in each others companies besides when we are at work, if she was actually cheating, I can't imagine there wouldn't have been at least ONE slip up. Say a text message from a guy saying something like "Last night was great ;)" you know the deal.

So to put it bluntly, my anxiety was really out of hand. When she would go out with her girlfriends to get some drinks on her girls night out, she would often leave her phone in the car since she could never hear in the bar, and she wears very tight jeans(she's 24, and her in prime), so having the phone in her pocket would often be very uncomfortable for her(she has a blackberry, quite big phone so it would cut into her leg when sitting down). So, I would text her...and when I wouldn't get any response...I would literally throw a fit, and bombard her phone's inbox with 30+ text messages asking her why she wasn't answering me, who was she with, accusing of her of being with another man and doing things with him, all the while she's just out with her friends trying to have a good time. So when she could go outside for a cigarette, and go to her car and see her phone with 30+ text messages and 15 missed calls from me, she would assume something was wrong and would call me...and then I would flip out on her for not texting me. It got so bad that I would be so accusing and mean that it would make her cry, and ruin a completely fun night for her when she was doing nothing wrong. Also, every night this happened, I was invited by her to come out with her, but I always turned it down. I always would just say, "keep in touch every so often letting me know you're ok, just a text every couple hours or so" and she would text me to say hi when she could, but it was never enough and I always started problems. It got in the middle of our relationship big time, and we actually broke up about 4 months ago, but have gotten back together since. The klonopin has made me stop worrying about her and what she's doing entirely. When she goes out, I simply say "Have fun! and call me if you need a ride or if you're coming over to the house afterwards, and if we text at all during that time, then great. If not, I'm usually not bothered anymore. Sometimes I find things sketchy, but the mind is a powerful thing and more times than not, when you have anxiety, if you think of something, or a certain scenario in your head for long enough, you actually begin to believe in it. Which is crazy.

The other part of the anxiety that really hurts is the social anxiety part. It's almost impossible for me to sit up and speak to a group of people I don't know. I could never do it in school when I was younger, and I still have a hard time doing it now. At all of my past job interviews, I would skate by by forcing myself and trying to block out the anxiety, and just answer questions as best I could. With my anxiety, answering on the spot questions I haven't prepared an answer for is very hard for me. I often lock up and get stuck saying "Um..well..uh.." etc. When I go out to a social gathering somewhere, and I'm around people I don't know very well, I find it basically impossible to put myself into a conversation because I would always feel like if I didn't know the situation, if I joined the conversation, people would look at me and be like "huh?" and I'd feel foolish. If I go out, I have to be with someone(A wingman) or my girlfriend to feel comfortable. Unless of course I take klonopin beforehand, but then I can't drink because I'll risk blacking out, which is not safe nor is it fun. I already feel alcohol much more strongly with suboxone in my system, and it limits how much I can drink. I drink to obtain a small buzz, to "loosen" up. I'm not someone who drinks to get drunk. Just not my thing, as I don't like being drunk and not being able to barely hold up my own weight, or lose most of my motor function. So the social anxiety is just as bad as the paranoia/insecurity with my girlfriend and faithfulness in our relationship.

So with all of that said, I really feel your pain when it comes to anxiety. I have not developed a dependence on Klonopin yet, because I'm very careful with how I take it now that I know what addiction is like with opiates. Another addiction is something I certainly am trying 110% to avoid...so I only take the klonopin when I know I'm going to need it. My doctor/psychiatrist will only write me for Klonopin though. I told him initially that before I was put on suboxone, I used to be prescribed 0.5mg xanax, twice a day, but he said he wouldn't write me a prescription for xanax because of it's addiction potential in comparison to other benzos, like Klonopin. He said Klonopin was the only benzo he would write me if I felt I really needed a benzo because it has a longer time of on-set and a much longer half-life/duration of action which would make it have less addiction potential, because it would eliminate having to dose multiple times throughout the day, unlike with xanax which has a short half-life, and a rapid onset, and if I have steady anxiety throughout the day, I would need to be taking it upwards of 3 or 4 times per day, which is something he didn't want me having to do, as it's the fast track to addiction. I had never tried Klonopin, but know people who have and have said it works great, and being that it's a benzo like xanax, I figured why not give it a try.

So far it has worked well, although I do have some issues with it. One: The sedation is very apparent if I have to take two 2mg tablets in a day. Much more sedation than the xanax ever gave me. The xanax made me feel more "up" than down, while making me simply not care about much. It did have more memory loss associated with it than the klonopin does though. Another problem I have is, since the Klonopin really takes an hour or two to really start working, I have to know that I'm going to need it ahead of time. I don't really like that. I would like to be able to take it once an episode starts, and have it work right then and there. It's truly hard to know when an episode is going to start, and the Klonopin doesn't knock out a panic attack like xanax does, although it does work better for prolonged anxiety throughout the day because of it's long duration of action like I said. So those are my only issues.

My girlfriend really doesn't like the fact that I take a klonopin because she knows they are addictive if abused, so I go out of my way to let her count them. She also doesn't like it because of how drowsy they make me. When it's getting late, and we are sitting on the couch watching tv, she'll sometimes catch me zoning out, or almost dare I say it "nodding out" like I used to on opiates, if I had taken Klonopin earlier in the day. When she sees me like that, it reminds her of my opiate addiction and the hell we went through TOGETHER with that. She used to have to enable me. If I didn't have money to get my DOC, she would often take money out of her checking account and give it to me, because it absolutely crushed her to see me withdrawaling and in so much pain. So she would RELUCTANTLY enable me in that regard. She also hated me looking so pale, with pin-point pupils, and practically falling asleep for 30 seconds at a time every 10 minutes or so. It's a double edged sword though because she knows my anxiety can get pretty severe, and she's been very happy with the fact that I am not insecure anymore when she decides she would like to go out with her girlfriends. I mean, I've always been insecure with her kind of because again, with the anxiety, my self esteem kind of sucks, and she is a VERY, VERY attractive red-head. She is by far the most beautiful woman I've ever been in a relationship with, and she smokes me in the looks department. It's also been my longest and most serious relationship in all my years of dating. We are planning to get engaged as soon as we get our own apartment in the spring/early summer of 2012, but we've been acting as if we were a married couple ever since we started dating. We never took things slow, we jumped in full speed because we knew we both found exactly what we were looking for in a partner. It was one of those "too good to be true" moments, but it was really true lol.

The other thing though is that like all benzos, tolerance develops quickly, and it has for me with Klonopin. I started out at 0.5mg twice per day, and after 4 months I am at 2mg twice per day because it simply doesn't have the same "anxiety killing" potential that it used to have when I first started it. So far the 2mg knocks out it out when I have an episode, but once that starts not having the same effect, I'm not sure where to go from there. I've come to realize that benzodiazepins are simply "what works" for my anxiety issues, and I've tried so many other methods. I've been to a therapist(still see one for both my substance abuse, and behavioral issues), I've tried other medications like Effexor, Vistaril, which are non narcotic anti depressant/anti anxiety medications to no effect. The effexor would calm me down slightly if it was really bad, but it would never take it away. I would still have 1000 thoughts racing through my mind, sweaty palms, pacing, bouncing my leg up and down whenever I sat. It would do nothing for my social anxiety either. Benzos are simply the only thing that has worked.

In closing, and I know this is a super long message, I just wanted to say that you're very blessed to have gotten out of that valium addiction, as well as the hydrocodone addiction which I'm going to guess is because of suboxone. I hope you've stayed clean and haven't had any relapses on either valium or hydrocodone(it's been years and years now since so thats good). I myself am remaining very careful with my Klonopin dosing, and as I said I think, I only take it when it's necessary. I don't wake up every day and take it expecting anxiety to come. I only take it when and if I feel the anxiety coming on. 4mg per day if needed is a somewhat high of a dose to be taking of it, but I try very hard to never have to take a second pill on a day where I need to dose. I often am left with extras that I bring into my doctor each month for him to dispose of(as he asked me to do from the very start, IF I had extras anyway). It's because of my absolute fear of becoming addicted to benzos even though they are a life-saver that I am not dependent on them already. I've been taking them for 4 months now, and due to my careful routine, I have't succumbed to dependency to Klonopin. There have been many occasions where I've had good weeks, and went 4-5 days without dosing at all, and during those times I have never felt withdrawal symptoms, so I'm very grateful. I can't imagine going through what you did, and you have my utmost respect for dealing with that situaiton, and coming out a better person in the end. It's funny, they marked Benzos as the alternative to barbituates(which are definitely far more deadly), that were non addicting and completely safe. Yet, more and more people end up addicting to benzos and some even die because they are in to deep and think they can kick it cold turkey. That's how seizures happen, and that's how un-needed deaths happen. I know a couple people who are dependent on different benzos(valium, xanax, and ativan) and it hurts to see them in that situation. I never preach to them things like "Oh you don't need that crap, you need to stop" etc etc, because I know for a fact that they need these medications, but I have stressed to them with utmost importance that if and when they decide to stop taking this medication to do so under a doctors care, and under a careful taper plan, and when they do finally come off after tapering, that they still need to be under a doctor's care to make sure they are treated correctly for any kind if post acute withdrawal symptoms -- because even if you taper correctly, you're not completely out of the woods. Your body is still going to be expecting a substance it's used to receiving. I actually stopped one of my best girl friends from making that poor choice of stopping her xanax cold turkey, when she's taking 2 2mg bars, with a maximum daily dose of 3 2mg bars a day. She said she's tired of always forgetting things, and just wants to deal with the anxiety on her own, and do the whole "mind over matter" thing. She wasn't aware that you can die from benzo withdrawal, and she wasn't aware that she was dependent(she's a bit naive) because she never abuses them, and follows the prescriptions orders to the T. She has her routine set, and takes them exactly at the same times each day, and has done so for about a year now. I told her that if you really want to stop, tell your doctor right now, and start a taper regimen with him. You need to get off this stuff under his care, and don't be your own doctor because you could very well be putting your life at risk if you don't do this properly. So now she's begun tapering down, and tells me it's going well.

Anyway, sorry for this really long post. Anyone who reads all of this really deserves a medal. I also just wanted to say that a lot of doctors feel suboxone+benzo is a dangerous combination, and in theory I guess it is since both are downers, but I have never had one situation where I felt the suboxone was made stronger, or gave me any kind of buzz because I introduced a benzo into the mix with it. The two drugs interact just fine with each other, although I can't say if that would be the case for a stronger, fast acting benzo though. Like xanax, or temazepam, or even valium. I've never felt like I was too "down" so to speak, with labored breathing, etc. Suboxone doesn't have that effect on me. The only thing the klonopin does to me is slightly lower my blood pressure when it's active in my system. And it's nothing out of the ordinary either. So while some suboxone doctors really are adamantly against it for their own reasons, it's not impossible to be put on both medications at the same time either. If you really have unmanageable anxiety, and you express it to your doctor, he'll most likely try to put you on an SSRI or SNRI medication at first, to stay away from any other controlled substances(benzos). If they don't work for you, then express that to him. Be honest and sincere, and if he develops some trust in you, you may get put on a benzo even if he stated originally he would not do so. It's usually easier to get on them if you have a positive track-record with your doctor. No positive urine screens, no diversion in dosing or "running out early". If you have a doc who prescribes you monthly but sees you every two weeks, just to check up, and count your prescription(some do this), if you have the proper amount of suboxones when he checks, that's also obviously a good way to build trust. As long as you show you are mature, and capable, and not at risk for abusing meds, they'll usually become a bit more lenient as far as writing a benzo prescription, just don't expect anything too strong. The reason I was bumped up to 2mg of klonopin twice a day is because I see a psychiatrist, not a doctor for my suboxone, and he can also go into my behavior and things like that, and can see better how my anxiety effects me, and can treat it more effectively in my opinion. But, anyway...enough of this letter.

Thanks for the reply. I enjoyed reading your post..you won't believe this but i am on klonopin as well..same dose..i take 2mg in the am and 2mg. in the pm. This is how i handle it. My husband has a safe and he has the only key...he hands out my klonopin and suboxone each day...otherwise i would never be able to handle it...he will also have to reduce me of sub if and when i ever get off of it, because ijust cannot reduce myself.
You seemed worried about the klonopin, maybe your gf could do something like we are doing?..and finally some avice: you are a good person...stop being jeolous of her and give yourself some credit. She picked you and no one else! Girls like to have a night out ...we talk about girl stuff and the last thing on our minds is another man. Good luck to you!..Judy










Good luck!


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 Post subject: To tearj3rker
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:54 pm 
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tearj3rker wrote:
Some interesting reading there guys.

The medicine world can really be its own worst enemy at times. So benzos were the non-addictive alternative to barbs? That's funny. Wasn't heroin the non-addictive alternative to morphine? :lol: Something makes me think we won't see the last of these insane ideas.

I'm sorry you guys had to experience benzo addiction pain like that. What I went through pales in comparison, so I won't go into it much. I'm incredibly lucky to never have developed a full on benzo-addiction, but most people I used with were hooked on Xanax, and let me tell you the pain they had to endure when trying to get clean. One now has epilepsy triggered by benzo withdrawal.

Benzos are in some ways more addictive than opiates. A person develops a tolerance to valium faster than heroin. Also their legality, and pill form, make one feel that taking them is more socially accepted. The 'housewives' addiction. It can make it sound oh so innocent.

I do believe benzos are more addictive than opiates...and much much harder to withdraw off of...cold turkey

They have a place in medicine, don't get me wrong, especially in anaesthetics. But they are nothing more than a band-aid for any problem... a band-aid that, upon taking it off, you realise has now made the problem feel worse. These days good doctors treat benzos with the respect they deserve imo. If my doctor handed them out like lollies, I'd get another doctor.

Call me a hippy, but IMO meditation could easily be prescribed in the place of benzos.

Seems we haven't learnt from the valley of the dolls.. yet :lol:


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 Post subject: To hatmaker510
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:02 am 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
I'm like you - I could never use opiates or benzos to aid in my withdrawals from sub. It would put me right back to the beginning, because, again, like you, I was hooked on xanax as well as opiates. I was cold-turkied off over 6 mg a day of xanax, but I was hospitalized at the time and was put on phenobarb to prevent seizures. That's also when I was put on suboxone. I know where you're coming from.


*Slipper - in cyberspace, typing in all caps is equivalent to yelling, maybe you could type normally? Thanks so much. :)


Wow...coming off 6mg/day xanax cold turkey is nothing to laugh about! Thank
God they put you on phenobarbital...and I am soooo sorry about the caps lock...I just got used to typing that way when computers first came out and it is just a habit...so sorry ...I will quit yelling!...judy


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:14 am 
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Yeah, I know, 6 mg is a crazy-ass high dose of xanax. And that amount was PRESCRIBED to me by my doctor! And of course I actually took more than that on most days.

For you new people who have never read what took me to my knees before I started suboxone, I'll give you the short version, because I think how bad I got was related to my xanax use. See, my doctors told me that even though I was still taking my xanax, my tolerance was growing and because my dose wasn't being raised, I was having withdrawals on it. The same went for the opiates I was taking (opana and percs). I ended up slowly having hallucinations and generally went into a psychotic episode. It lasted for at least a week or more. I eventually was hospitalized and that's when they detoxed me with the phenobarb and put me on sub (without asking me or giving me informed consent). I knew NOTHING about suboxone. Didn't know it was an opiate, that it could cause withdrawals when I went off it or anything. Not that it matters - it's still what saved my life.

Sorry for the digression. I figured this was a good time to illustrate to others exactly what this stuff can do to people - and that is SERIOUS FUCKING DAMAGE.

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Good to hear some raw emotion from the hatmaker! It just shows how this stuff should not be treated lightly.

Thankfully it turned out OKAY. Opana + Percoset + 6mg+ xanax... rolled over into Suboxone. I'd be happy with that trade, even without informed consent. It's incredibly hard for a doctor to get informed consent when a patient is in a psychosis!

My heart goes out to those who have suffered addiction as a result of medical oversight.

People like me.. we only have ourselves to blame :shock:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:35 pm 
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Wow, I have zero experience with benzo's besides taking a couple for a procedure. Your stories are horrifying! Judy, I can't imagine going thru that and having no idea why, and Hat you have sure come a long way. I can't believe that a Dr would do that to a patient, you are very lucky to be here today. I want to thank you all for sharing such a personal experience, I had no idea benzo's could cause so much damage and by posting your experience you could help others avoid the hell you had to endure. Very powerful drugs and very powerful words!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:46 pm 
Subox845 wrote:
Judy, that is one crazy story, but I'm glad you shared it. I'm actually grateful your husband noticed your issues and took you immediately to see a doctor. Benzo addiction is one of the only addictions(alcohol as well) that can actually KILL you. As I'm sure you know by now. What you experienced is simply amazing(in a terrible way). I've been prescribed Klonopin (2mg) to take AS NEEDED for the past 4 months now. I get 60 of them a month, and it's due to my terrible social anxiety, and paranoia when it comes to certain things. For example, my girlfriend. Every night she goes out with her friends, I am terribly anxious as to when she will be coming home, what she's doing, who she's with. You know how it goes. I was acting like a complete idiot and it would infuriate her. I would always think she was cheating on me, or being unfaithful. Even though I have not once ever caught her talking to another man in a flirting manner, or had seen one email, text message, a myspace or facebook message/comment, and have never heard a voicemail from a man. We spend literally every minute with each other, and not once has she ever gotten a text from someone I "thought" she was cheating on me with. We've been together for over 3 years, and considering we've spent those 3 years in each others companies besides when we are at work, if she was actually cheating, I can't imagine there wouldn't have been at least ONE slip up. Say a text message from a guy saying something like "Last night was great ;)" you know the deal.

So to put it bluntly, my anxiety was really out of hand. When she would go out with her girlfriends to get some drinks on her girls night out, she would often leave her phone in the car since she could never hear in the bar, and she wears very tight jeans(she's 24, and her in prime), so having the phone in her pocket would often be very uncomfortable for her(she has a blackberry, quite big phone so it would cut into her leg when sitting down). So, I would text her...and when I wouldn't get any response...I would literally throw a fit, and bombard her phone's inbox with 30+ text messages asking her why she wasn't answering me, who was she with, accusing of her of being with another man and doing things with him, all the while she's just out with her friends trying to have a good time. So when she could go outside for a cigarette, and go to her car and see her phone with 30+ text messages and 15 missed calls from me, she would assume something was wrong and would call me...and then I would flip out on her for not texting me. It got so bad that I would be so accusing and mean that it would make her cry, and ruin a completely fun night for her when she was doing nothing wrong. Also, every night this happened, I was invited by her to come out with her, but I always turned it down. I always would just say, "keep in touch every so often letting me know you're ok, just a text every couple hours or so" and she would text me to say hi when she could, but it was never enough and I always started problems. It got in the middle of our relationship big time, and we actually broke up about 4 months ago, but have gotten back together since. The klonopin has made me stop worrying about her and what she's doing entirely. When she goes out, I simply say "Have fun! and call me if you need a ride or if you're coming over to the house afterwards, and if we text at all during that time, then great. If not, I'm usually not bothered anymore. Sometimes I find things sketchy, but the mind is a powerful thing and more times than not, when you have anxiety, if you think of something, or a certain scenario in your head for long enough, you actually begin to believe in it. Which is crazy.

The other part of the anxiety that really hurts is the social anxiety part. It's almost impossible for me to sit up and speak to a group of people I don't know. I could never do it in school when I was younger, and I still have a hard time doing it now. At all of my past job interviews, I would skate by by forcing myself and trying to block out the anxiety, and just answer questions as best I could. With my anxiety, answering on the spot questions I haven't prepared an answer for is very hard for me. I often lock up and get stuck saying "Um..well..uh.." etc. When I go out to a social gathering somewhere, and I'm around people I don't know very well, I find it basically impossible to put myself into a conversation because I would always feel like if I didn't know the situation, if I joined the conversation, people would look at me and be like "huh?" and I'd feel foolish. If I go out, I have to be with someone(A wingman) or my girlfriend to feel comfortable. Unless of course I take klonopin beforehand, but then I can't drink because I'll risk blacking out, which is not safe nor is it fun. I already feel alcohol much more strongly with suboxone in my system, and it limits how much I can drink. I drink to obtain a small buzz, to "loosen" up. I'm not someone who drinks to get drunk. Just not my thing, as I don't like being drunk and not being able to barely hold up my own weight, or lose most of my motor function. So the social anxiety is just as bad as the paranoia/insecurity with my girlfriend and faithfulness in our relationship.

So with all of that said, I really feel your pain when it comes to anxiety. I have not developed a dependence on Klonopin yet, because I'm very careful with how I take it now that I know what addiction is like with opiates. Another addiction is something I certainly am trying 110% to avoid...so I only take the klonopin when I know I'm going to need it. My doctor/psychiatrist will only write me for Klonopin though. I told him initially that before I was put on suboxone, I used to be prescribed 0.5mg xanax, twice a day, but he said he wouldn't write me a prescription for xanax because of it's addiction potential in comparison to other benzos, like Klonopin. He said Klonopin was the only benzo he would write me if I felt I really needed a benzo because it has a longer time of on-set and a much longer half-life/duration of action which would make it have less addiction potential, because it would eliminate having to dose multiple times throughout the day, unlike with xanax which has a short half-life, and a rapid onset, and if I have steady anxiety throughout the day, I would need to be taking it upwards of 3 or 4 times per day, which is something he didn't want me having to do, as it's the fast track to addiction. I had never tried Klonopin, but know people who have and have said it works great, and being that it's a benzo like xanax, I figured why not give it a try.

So far it has worked well, although I do have some issues with it. One: The sedation is very apparent if I have to take two 2mg tablets in a day. Much more sedation than the xanax ever gave me. The xanax made me feel more "up" than down, while making me simply not care about much. It did have more memory loss associated with it than the klonopin does though. Another problem I have is, since the Klonopin really takes an hour or two to really start working, I have to know that I'm going to need it ahead of time. I don't really like that. I would like to be able to take it once an episode starts, and have it work right then and there. It's truly hard to know when an episode is going to start, and the Klonopin doesn't knock out a panic attack like xanax does, although it does work better for prolonged anxiety throughout the day because of it's long duration of action like I said. So those are my only issues.

My girlfriend really doesn't like the fact that I take a klonopin because she knows they are addictive if abused, so I go out of my way to let her count them. She also doesn't like it because of how drowsy they make me. When it's getting late, and we are sitting on the couch watching tv, she'll sometimes catch me zoning out, or almost dare I say it "nodding out" like I used to on opiates, if I had taken Klonopin earlier in the day. When she sees me like that, it reminds her of my opiate addiction and the hell we went through TOGETHER with that. She used to have to enable me. If I didn't have money to get my DOC, she would often take money out of her checking account and give it to me, because it absolutely crushed her to see me withdrawaling and in so much pain. So she would RELUCTANTLY enable me in that regard. She also hated me looking so pale, with pin-point pupils, and practically falling asleep for 30 seconds at a time every 10 minutes or so. It's a double edged sword though because she knows my anxiety can get pretty severe, and she's been very happy with the fact that I am not insecure anymore when she decides she would like to go out with her girlfriends. I mean, I've always been insecure with her kind of because again, with the anxiety, my self esteem kind of sucks, and she is a VERY, VERY attractive red-head. She is by far the most beautiful woman I've ever been in a relationship with, and she smokes me in the looks department. It's also been my longest and most serious relationship in all my years of dating. We are planning to get engaged as soon as we get our own apartment in the spring/early summer of 2012, but we've been acting as if we were a married couple ever since we started dating. We never took things slow, we jumped in full speed because we knew we both found exactly what we were looking for in a partner. It was one of those "too good to be true" moments, but it was really true lol.

The other thing though is that like all benzos, tolerance develops quickly, and it has for me with Klonopin. I started out at 0.5mg twice per day, and after 4 months I am at 2mg twice per day because it simply doesn't have the same "anxiety killing" potential that it used to have when I first started it. So far the 2mg knocks out it out when I have an episode, but once that starts not having the same effect, I'm not sure where to go from there. I've come to realize that benzodiazepins are simply "what works" for my anxiety issues, and I've tried so many other methods. I've been to a therapist(still see one for both my substance abuse, and behavioral issues), I've tried other medications like Effexor, Vistaril, which are non narcotic anti depressant/anti anxiety medications to no effect. The effexor would calm me down slightly if it was really bad, but it would never take it away. I would still have 1000 thoughts racing through my mind, sweaty palms, pacing, bouncing my leg up and down whenever I sat. It would do nothing for my social anxiety either. Benzos are simply the only thing that has worked.



Benzos aren't just "addictive when abused." They are addicted when taken, period.

I detoxed off of 2 mg/day Klonopin for two years. It hurt really fucking bad. It hurt worse than the bundle a day dope habit I was kicking.

I went a year or so off of benzos and never got up to sleeping more than 5-6 hours (on a really good night). So I started taking Restoril and I've been good with that. I am not saying that benzos aren't best for you. They are the only way I can get any sleep. But don't kid yourself.

Whether or not your take them along with a note written by a doctor, they are still addictive. 2-4 mg/day for four months is definitely enough to get addicted.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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