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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:31 am 
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I have gotten myself into a pattern over the last six weeks of using about three times a week while still on my sub. I take 3 mg a day, 2 in the am and 1 mg at night. On the days that I use, I normally pick up around 6pm in which case I will skip my dose that night, sometimes I still have some left in the morning in which case I will skip that dose as well. I cannot stop this pattern. I feel proud of myself lately if I can just put two days in between using, but it is normally just one.

Taking suboxone in this case is actually facilitating my ability to use. I do not have to wait until I am in withdrawl if I am just using over an 18 hr max period because there is still a decent amount of sub in my system and thus I have no risk (at least in my experience) of precipitated withdrawl. Also, at the dose I am at the blocking effect of sub tends to minimal. So basically, I get to use, but never feel withdrawls. I feel like if I weren't on suboxone the consequences of using would be much higher because I would risk bringing on the physical addiction all over again.

I have recently got a very good job which started about same time as my recent stint of using did. I have recently felt like "Oh Im on the right track now, I got it together, everything will be ok, I deserve to use." When I pick up, it tends to be after work. After work, I usually get home, lay in bed and try to decide whether to make the drive to pick up or not. I also try to decide whether to take sub to prevent myself (blocking cravings and making using less worthwhile because of blocking effect) from using in which case I will take 2mg instead of my normal 1mg. Sometimes I actually flip a coin: "if it lands on heads, I go down right now, if it lands on tails I take my sub right now."

I had a surgery in the beginning of august for which I received opiates. I took a total of 3 percocets post operative, but they did give me fentanyl during the surgery. Do you think it is possible that this fentanyl could have triggered something in my brain that brought about cravings? After this surgery (shoulder) my ability for physical activity was limited, and I just fell into a pretty lathargic phase in general. Besides starting my new job, I have fallen out of many of the healthy patterns that were keeping me clean (though I did get myself to go the gym today). I just dont know what to do, I am worried I am going to go pick up tomorrow morning.

Has anyone else found themselves or anyone they know in such a situation? I have heard that it can be harder to stay clean on smaller doses of sub than if someone is completely opioid free. Any truth to this?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:18 am 
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I could actually say a good bit right now but my time is limited. I think the very fact that ur able to flip a coin an not go use, depending on heads or tails of course lol, is a GOOD thing. That shows some control and in a lot of cases control is good. I know when i was on sub i actually quite a bit of control. Personally i never even thought about how an opiate felt while i was on sub. It worked that well for me in the beginning. Then after a few years the effects werent the same for whatever reason. Just didnt work as well.

Anyways sorry for goin off track. I dont know what i would do in ur position. I think that maybe once on sub longer u will be able to grow out of some of these bad patterns. Sorry i cant remember how long u said uve been taking sub.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:21 am 
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Hey Dizzle, welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear that you're having a hard time not using.

I'm not sure if you're looking for advice or support or if you're just curious if there's anyone out here in the same situation as you. I haven't run across the idea that it's harder to stay clean on smaller doses of Sub than it is to stay clean on no Sub at all, but I guess it's possible. I know that a lot of people experience cravings to use when they get down to a lower dose of Sub, usually below 4mgs is when those urges really start kicking in. But if you have the urge to use at a 3mg dose of Suboxone, wouldn't you still have those urges if you weren't on Suboxone? That's kind of what being addicted is about...

Do you want to stop this pattern of using? Have you considered any steps you might take to help you stop? Inpatient treatment or intensive-outpatient treatment could be an option, as would raising your Suboxone dose to a level that suppresses your cravings and would block you ability to get high so easily. I have a feeling that you already know that though. Maybe if you raised your dose long enough to change this pattern of using then you could lower it back down again?

I'm sorry I don't have better feedback for you here. I hope you're able to chose not to go out and pick up tomorrow morning and that you can get some clarity around what you need to do to break this pattern. Can you talk to your doctor about what's going on?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:14 pm 
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In MY honest opinion, its pretty common, to have a few "tries" at being clean,
before your actually ready to "go for it"

maybe THATS whats going on???

I dont know..........Just trying to help.

Eventually,,,, you'll get sick and tired of your consequences, even if you dont have many with taking suboxone at the same time, there WILL BE consequences, its just a matter of time................

Kinda like playing rush and roulette.........

So, whenever you feel READY,,,, go for it. . . . . . . . AND, I DO think you should be taking more than 4mg as diary suggested, above.
that may be PART of the issue at hand.

Either way,,,,,
you'll have to think of a few sources to reach out to, when you are ready, and learn to lean on them......... whether that's a family member, friend, meetings, therapist, whatever the case may be.....
Find some support, someone to call when you feel weak,
and go for it,
when YOU are READY.

Thats the best advice I can give.
I never took suboxone in all my "fails" but I did have quite a few fails.
I'd hope and hope and think I was doing my best.
but I wasn't doing my best until I told every single person around me that i was a junkie, and it was DAY ONE.
Then, I got alot of support, well alot more than I expected anyways,
and had half a shot at making it.

GOOD LUCK
in whatever you decide, whenever you decide to do it :wink: :wink: :wink:

please don't take my words the wrong way, Im trying to support you..... get you to reach out to people when you are ready to do so...... and I do think suboxone could help you, at a higher dose.
If you have any questions, please dont hesitate to ask

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its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:55 am 
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Dreamer: I have been taking sub a little over a year now.

Diary: I am looking for all of support, advice, and anyone that has been in a similar spot.

I went and picked up early in the morning like four hours after writing this post :oops: I know that raising my suboxone dose would help tremendously, but today I had an appt w my sub doc and was going to tell him about this pattern and about raising the dose, but then I just bailed and said everything is fine...

Amber, I hear what you say about people going back and fourth before they really decide to get clean. I never really went back and fourth but had been doing really well leading up to before this recent pattern developed and had 8 months clean. I have recently landed an awesome job, so this cant be one of those things where I learn as the consequences pile up! I sure as hell hope not!

The people I live with are also in recovery, so I have been leading them, my friends, family, etc. on by making it seem like everything is great with me. About five days ago I did tell one friend about what I was going through and all I got from him was the advice that if I am going to use I should just drink or smoke marijuana because I am better off. I don't know why, but for some reason, smoking pot or drinking seem like a much bigger deal in terms of my recovery than shooting H - guess I am proud that I have touched neither for over a year and want to maintain that.

I could really use NA right now, but I have grown sick of the program and the people there. The social dynamics feel like high school and there are some serious douchebags I cannot stand to hear give the same basic-text-quoting-share time after time.

It is approaching 1 am right now, and I am seriously considering taking the 30 min drive to cop before work. I can pick up on the street some complete garbage anytime starting about 4 am, and cant go through my normal connect until 830. Problem is that it can take them an hour and a half sometimes to get to me in which case I would be late for work considering that I have to be there at 10. This is a dicey situation. I know that if I took my morning dose now it would make picking up make much less sense, but it dosen't guarantee that I wont. In the past I have taken 2mg specifically to prevent myself from using, then went and used 1 hr later despite it having zero effect and me knowing that going into it... mehh I am rambling :oops:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:07 pm 
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Hey Dizzle,

I'm glad you came to the forum for advice and support, at least you're reaching out and that's a step in the right direction.

From what I'm seeing, you're stuck with some shitty thinking right now. You know what you're doing could blow up in your face at any minute, but you're also not really able to fully resist the temptation. I've been there, done that.

I'm gonna say one thing that really helped me was to tell on myself. It's great that you're telling people here on the forum, but I think you need to do more. I don't think any of us on the forum can really help provide you with the accountability that you need. I think you should tell someone (maybe several someone's...besides your friend who told you to smoke weed) what you've been doing.

You're addiction is firmly in control of your thinking and actions right now, the longer you let it go, the worse it's gonna get. On our own, we addicts will rationalize drug use for any damn reason, but once we bounce our thoughts off someone else, it usually helps us to see how fucked up our thinking is and, for me, it gives me that little bit of accountability I need to do the right thing.

Stopping on your own right now is probably going to be pretty damn hard, enlist the help of some family and friends.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:51 pm 
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In your first post you mentioned only going to pick up after work and rationalizing it in a way like you had some control. In your last post you're talking about copping before work. See how quickly this can down spiral?

Amber is right, it's like playing russian roulette. At least you are aware and seeking help & support. I think you should talk to your doctor about upping your dose. If you are enough sub, you won't think about getting high anymore and it wouldn't work anyway. Good luck!


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 Post subject: common problem
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:08 pm 
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Hi Dizzle. Flipping is pretty darn common round these part's, and I'd say many of the silent majority are facing a similar situation as you.
I'm productive on sub, but craving for a full opiate was/still a problem for me and it's very easy to overide low dose sub. I did not get a tollerance using every 2nd day.
If your dead set about quitting you can still lower your sub dose while using H other days and then the sub will be more effective short term when you detox off H.
As we know, the sooner the better and theres always a level of discomfort to work thru. Finding help is essential.
Good Luck


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