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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:01 pm 
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auspicious'. is just staying at the beginning of drug addiction for a very long time. we all started it this way. by trying to control it at the beginning. auspiciuas rote-
I dont like to stay high....that's stupid. Without low there is now high. And i think that's why people who take it chronically say they dont get "high".... they are just numb to it... For "on" there must be "off" without it how would you ever know the differnce. That is why i prefer small doses in increments so i can feel it come on, and then feel it subiside, until i return to my old friend....."nothing"....which is the best tool anyone has to guage life by. The oposite of something is nothing.... are you beginning to understand?

GET OUT OF THERE AUSPICIOUS". AND MOVE ON LIKE THE REST OF US. IT DOES NOT LAST.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:29 pm 
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johnboy wrote:
auspicious'. is just staying at the beginning of drug addiction for a very long time. we all started it this way. by trying to control it at the beginning. auspiciuas rote-
I dont like to stay high....that's stupid. Without low there is now high. And i think that's why people who take it chronically say they dont get "high".... they are just numb to it... For "on" there must be "off" without it how would you ever know the differnce. That is why i prefer small doses in increments so i can feel it come on, and then feel it subiside, until i return to my old friend....."nothing"....which is the best tool anyone has to guage life by. The oposite of something is nothing.... are you beginning to understand?

GET OUT OF THERE AUSPICIOUS". AND MOVE ON LIKE THE REST OF US. IT DOES NOT LAST.


I don't agree with all that logic. Now maybe, back a few years ago, I WOULD have agreed with it...but that "for on there must be off, without low there is no high...".....that doesn't fly with me. Without "high" there is life, normal and pleasant -- or unpleasant at times -- but the addict, in their mind, has decided that everyday problems and griefs are too much to bear without the help of something that alleviates reality, or alters the perception of reality. All "high" is, by definition for an addict, is altering reality. Altering life as it's perceived. Making things "appear" to be something they aren't. And by doing all of that, it's feeding the monster that addiction is. Anyone who can't or won't deal with life in it's truest form, is not living life to it's fullest. You take life as it comes, the lows, the highs, and the in-betweens. There's plenty of good times, and not so many bad times, but life is enjoyable without a mind-altering substance that makes you numb or changes your personality into someone that you believe to be "better at coping."
And there's a key word that we're all used to seeing I'm sure...or those in therapy. I don't really go to therapy, not as I should...haven't been in 2-3 years...but I'm supposed to I think as a requirement of my treatment....but I've done LOTS of things online and via talking with people that help me in a therapeutic way...and one thing you guys probably see a LOT of is the "Coping Mechanisms." Coping mechanisms are the tools you use to deal with events in life that seem unbearable. Most of us who are in recovery, and are in an inactive addiction state, we cope with things like someone who's not suffering from the disease known as addiction. And for most of us, and those people who don't have the disease, coping comes easily. We deal with it and move on..maybe with some anxieties or apprehension, but we still deal with it. It's part of life..

It takes a determined mind and unwavering strength to overcome addictive tendencies. It's not something you can take a magic pill and be all better by doing just that...willpower and state of mind are the two biggest devices that give you that ability. And even though I'm in recovery...I still deal with pain and things that USED to make me immediately drop what I was doing and snort my Oxycontin...but now I deal with those same things and don't think twice about it. In 3 years that I've been completely clean, I could tell of some things that would DEFINITELY make some of you gasp and say "how did you make it through that without using?"...but the thought never crossed my mind. I know in recovery and therapy they tell you that you should NEVER clean yourself up for someone else...and that you do it FOR YOURSELF. But, I truly believe that having a wonderful spouse like the one I have was a tremendous accessory that helped me to achieve my sobriety. And though it may not seem like I'm saying much when I say I met some TREMENDOUS difficulties, I had only been sober for 1 year when the most trying times hit, and I was never at any sort of likelihood to fall off the wagon again, because I was determined that NOTHING would stop me from being clean.

Just as an example, here's one instance of what went on..and this was ON-GOING for the first year that I was clean.

When I cleaned my life up and got down from the cloud I had been floating on for 7-8 months of Oxycontin abuse...I came to my senses about my relationship. My wife had left me 7 months prior and we had signed the divorce papers. We were done, going to END our 9 years of marriage, because she was finished with the addict that I had become. ALL that was left to do was for me to finish paying the last $100 of the lawyer fee, and sign my part of the divorce paperwork...we had filled out everything and signed most of it, but my signature was needed for the finalizing. And the "high" me ...through some miraculous reasoning, kept putting this part off. I just wouldn't go sign it.
IN THE MEAN TIME...I had let a girl move in with me that I had met on some stupid dating site. ONLINE LOVE! She had been living here since ONE MONTH after my wife and I split...and I was COMPLETELY blistered the entire time....so I wasn't thinking clearly at ALL when I let this girl move in with me. My wife was living with her mom+dad with my 3 kids...so I had it made. Now, once I got caught by the girl living here with my drug habit, something had to give...and it looked like I didn't have many ways out. I was COMPLETELY out of my mind all the time, and doing NOTHING but Oxycontins all the time...I would do so much that I would forget how many I had done in a day, and I would wind up snorting 4 or 5 80mg OC's...surprised I didn't OD myself, but I managed to survive. But at the end of the 7 or 8 month period, I had heard of Suboxone and wanted to try this. It was either do this, or I had a motorcycle that I had planned to use and run up a tree as fast as I could hold down the throttle...I was already contemplating just ending it all!! And I was NEVER a suicidal person, but I COULD NOT deal with the withdrawals as bad as they were from opiates, and I didn't want to live that way ANYMORE. I let Christmas go by, and in January I started really thinking to myself "I have GOT to do something. This can't go on"....and I started pursuing Suboxone. I got into a methadone clinic and got my life partially back to normal by the first week of Suboxone..I felt ALIVE again!! But OMG, life started hitting me in the face with what I had done to my WONDERFUL wife..and how I had been SO stupid. HOW could I stay clean and live with myself for what I had done...??? I agreed to end it all because staying high on dope was more important to me than she was...and being on Suboxone for just a week or so made me realize that I was never going to get that back...so I played with my treatment. I stayed clean a week or two...back to OC's a week or 2....back and forth. This girl who lived here was putting all of this past 7 months of living here on her credit. She had AAA credit when she came here..but when she left, it was near bankruptcy. Because of ME. I had used her accounts that she shared with me, she got credit cards and gave them to me...and I maxxed out 3 or 4 cards getting cash advances...not to mention all the money on the side that I got via pawning stuff...

After 7 months of living on credit (because I lost my job 5 months prior and we lived purely on her credit)....it was time to pay the piper. This girls MOM stepped in and kinda "saved her daughters ass," but came to me with the bill. At the time, we were still on "good terms" and she was living here, still..but I knew that me being clean and her staying here couldn't match up. I couldn't stay sober and let this girl keep living with me, esp when I was STILL married to my wife. SO I nodded and shook my head..yeah, I'll go to work..blah blah...and the girls mom said "I'm going to get a BIG loan and pay off ALL of the debt that you two have built up over the past 7 or 8 months..." Ok..great...that will work...I'll get a job..blah blah.

Long story short, when I finally got serious about my sobriety..the wife saw I was working on me, and cleaning myself up...and the WHOLE time we had been apart (nearly 8 months now), she had NEVER came back here (our house) and gotten intimate with me....but when I started doing the right thing and showing that I was changing...she came here one weekend while "girl" was gone..and we were "together" for the first time since we split. OMG..It was AWESOME. "Girl" knew something wasn't right with me and her, because I had been sleeping on my couch since CHristmas, but she thought it was just because of the drug problem and me not being able to "do much"...but that wasn't it. And I was even MORE determined once my wife came here and we ...got "close", that I would NOT sleep in the same room with "girl" anymore....and I didn't. I had already "had" my wife, and even got asked by "girl" if I had cheated on her..but I said no and didn't think twice on it. But I KNEW in the back of my mind that things were looking better, and that it was very unlikely the divorce would be finalized. And I was right. The next time that my wife and I were "together"....that sealed it. I was done with the living a lie, and "girl" had to go. SO I cleaned house.

Now for the trying part of the 1 year of sobriety. Read above where I said the girl's mom got a big loan to pay off everything we had done on credit in that 7-month period....
Well, the wife and I moved back in here together..she came "home" to me..and we started working us again. She started getting to know the "UN-HIGH" me that was hidden away..and things were GREAT. But the girl's mom wasn't finished with me..she wanted money. Or blood. And she bugged us, sometimes just showing up here at this house..out of the blue...sometimes calling until we answered...but she was going to make sure I got the picture. I still hadn't found work, and now I was actually clean and trying..but couldn't find a job. But the girls mom didn't care. She told me to mortgage my paid-off house and pay her back..she didn't care HOW I did it. So within this first year of my being clean, I was faced with CONSTANT emails, constant phone calls, and the occasional visit from this girl, a girl who I made a VERY long mistake with...knocking on my door.
The woman even went so far as to say she was going to say that I stole her daughter's identity and put me in jail for that...which at the time I thought would work, and I was SCARED...but I eventually found out that she could NOT do that, and I had done nothing of the sort. The girl WILLINGLY handed me credit cards and gave me permission to use her accounts..so I was NOT at fault.

It may not have been exactly the right thing to do, but we ignored it...and we tried to live our lives..all the while this nagging from the past would pop-up from time to time....but after about 1 1/2 year of me not showing any sort of move toward paying this woman, she finally left me alone. It's been 3 years since last contact, and she's quit emailing me as well....but my first year on Suboxone was RIDDLED with triggers that would've make any normal person bend and break...but I never FALTERED in my goals. I was determined to NEVER hurt my wife like that again..and we've been GREAT since she came home. AND.........

we're expecting a baby in March...how much more love can two people show than to create a life. I think it's the greatest showing of affection and dedication to our marriage for my wife to have another baby with me...but this is our LAST, FOR SURE. But I get to enjoy this baby, in a truly natural, NOT HIGH form....unfortunately this didn't happen when my other kids were born...and I missed out on SO much. BUT, NOT ANY MORE!!!



I hope my story is helping to someone..and they can gather some sort of headway to see how important you should make your sobriety. There was PLENTY of triggers that would've knocked me back down, IF I had let them. But I didn't!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:06 pm 
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auspicius'. i have a family member that sorta went through what you did. and did well for as long as he aloud it. things will change. good story. and you no this forum is for people who love to talk about there problems. every one is open to give
information to others to hear' and make sure"also' he or she is making the best in recovery. good luck. your strong

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 Post subject: give people a break
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:24 am 
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So what if this person is using subutex/ subone to get high. It's called harm minimisation. If people have access to regular doses of phamaceutical drugs it may stop a lot of the dangerous behaviours assositated with illicit drug use with the idea of improving the quality of their lives untill they are ready.
I agee that the misuse of the medications is really annoying to those of us that use it properly. but we need to stop being so judgmental.
If this person uses it to get high initially at least they are in contact with DR's etc and it may give them some stabiliy to get other areas of their life in order so when when are ready they can make better choices.
People seem to be obsessed with abstinance / recovery and i agree that that in a perfect world that would be the best outcome for everyone.
But everone has different issues and needs. If some one is stable and has improved their family/finacial/ work life but needs to be on medication for addiction for a long period of time WHO CARES. If they were prescribed medication for any other illness they would not be treated this way. This is very politically incorrect but who would say to a type 2 diabetic they can only have medication for a few weeks and then they must make complete lifestyle changes to manage their illness.
Addiction is a disease not a choice and people need options to manage this.
The current system of management creates dishonesty , you need to tell prescibers what they want to hear and provide clean urines, if some one relapses they are punished rather than helped. Any way this is my opinion only


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 Post subject: Re: give people a break
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:56 am 
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teletubbie wrote:
So what if this person is using subutex/ subone to get high. It's called harm minimisation. If people have access to regular doses of phamaceutical drugs it may stop a lot of the dangerous behaviours assositated with illicit drug use with the idea of improving the quality of their lives untill they are ready.
I agee that the misuse of the medications is really annoying to those of us that use it properly. but we need to stop being so judgmental.
If this person uses it to get high initially at least they are in contact with DR's etc and it may give them some stabiliy to get other areas of their life in order so when when are ready they can make better choices.
People seem to be obsessed with abstinance / recovery and i agree that that in a perfect world that would be the best outcome for everyone.
But everone has different issues and needs. If some one is stable and has improved their family/finacial/ work life but needs to be on medication for addiction for a long period of time WHO CARES. If they were prescribed medication for any other illness they would not be treated this way. This is very politically incorrect but who would say to a type 2 diabetic they can only have medication for a few weeks and then they must make complete lifestyle changes to manage their illness.
Addiction is a disease not a choice and people need options to manage this.
The current system of management creates dishonesty , you need to tell prescibers what they want to hear and provide clean urines, if some one relapses they are punished rather than helped. Any way this is my opinion only



I can see both sides of the fence, because I've been at a point where I KNEW what suboxone would do for me, and how it would help me, but I couldn't afford to go to treatment. I also didn't have the outlook that I currently have, with 4+ years of sobriety...but I know what it feels like to know that when I take my last Suboxone in the bottle today, that I have to go and chase down some oxys or tabs..until I can afford to pay a doctor some huge fee just to give me more of what makes me feel great and not high.

But then, I see the side of things that says "what would you go through in order to get your drug of choice? What hurdles would you jump, what personal belongings would you sell, what sacrifices would you make if you were chasing your illicit street drug?" Most of us in recovery can name some pretty sorry things we have done to get our street drugs..I know I can. And with that mentality of "I will do whatever I have to do in order to stay out of withdrawals, sell what I have to sell, pawn what I have to pawn", the same can be done for getting into a doctor and getting treatment.

Bottom line, if someone is willing to jump out of a 3-story building for 1 80mg oxy, then they should be willing to do the same in order to get treatment...it takes getting to that mindset, getting into that "being clean is worth more than ANYTHING" way of thinking about things.

If a person is using a drug that's meant for recovery to get high, then I have to question exactly what their high is? What is it that they are chasing, because I've never known of any euphoric feeling being achieved via suboxone...


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:38 pm 
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I don't agree with what this guys doing at all. I do agree that he is on a recovery forum asking to find alternative ways to "USE" Sub to get the feeling he wants to achieve. BUT all meds were made for a specific purpose even oxy and oxyctn. I know that I did not use those as prescribed "OPIATE ABUSE." He isn't using Sub as prescribed "SUB ABUSE." So if you used any legit RX to obtain your high you can judge but you are hypocritical. It is exactly the same it is RX abuse. So if you take offense to his use then you should be angry with anyone that uses any RX in an abusive manner. Most of us have an affinity for Sub because it made us better. Other people that have used Opiates correctly have an affinity for opiates when they have pain because it made them better. Same=same. It is basically the "sub" abuse that you are angry with and that is what I don't understand. I don't understand why you get so angry with just sub abuse.

I take Sub and I am happy with it. It removes the chronic pain and keeps me from wanting pills. If you are asking for the way to use sub and get high I can't help you nor would I want too. If you are asking how to use sub and relieve chronic pain, you should go to the Dr and figure out what dose works for you. For me it is 8mg 2x a day.

I honestly hope that you can find a way to deter the feelings of wanting to get "high" or the ups and downs you are looking for " basically your addict behavior." I know that Sub did that for me. I am a different person because of it and I am no longer searching for the ups and downs you are looking for or even the need to "feel" any different. Sub for me allows me to be normal without the high feelings and to avoid the chronic pain. IMO you should find a doctor, tell him your truthful story all of it even the sub abuse, and ask for help. Just my opinion. Good luck and I hope you find help.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:43 pm 
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It's not always as black and white as you made it...


I was prescribed lortab 10's when I had my wisdom teeth cut out. Only a certain amount, for a certain amount of time. I didn't abuse them, but they made me like their affect..so AFTER my script ran out, I chased down more. I didn't attain another script, as doctors kept saying "you're too young to have that sort of narcotic pain medicine, but here, have some tramadol...
SO I bought mine on the street, and that's what started the trend. I abused A prescription drug, but it wasn't MY prescription...why did I do it? I wasn't in pain, I wasn't using it for legit reasons..I wanted the feeling that it gave, the euphoria. The ENERGY. BOY..I sure could do some cleaning on something if I just had some of those pills to get me through...I only needed a couple.
And that's how it started. I only need a few. I only need about 40 for a week. I ONLY need about 90, for a week. And one year, at tax time, I ONLY bought 160 pills from a guy on the street, at street price ($4.00 and some change). I handed someone EIGHT ONE-HUNDRED DOLLAR BILLS..for A HIGH!!

I went from, LITERALLY, "I ONLY need about 10 to last me a week" to "I'm going to chop up this 80mg oxycontin and snort it"...

But there's SO much irony in trying to use Suboxone for some sort of high. I mean, it's not worth even going into how ironic that is, and how hypocritical that is. To me, that's like dancing with the devil while holding a Bible and Holy Water.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:08 pm 
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Lots of talk about Harm Reduction on this thread. I have been and will always be a strong supporter of harm reduction. Heck, I even volunteered at my local needle exchange (I never once used a needle). The problem is that Suboxone is not a "harm reduction" medication. Nor is Methadone. These medications are not meant to be used as a fallback "do not get sick" pill. In fact, I could see how using them as such would make a person's use prolong even longer. I am not a believer in the rock bottom theory, but in order to be compelled to quit, many have to face some consequences. I do not think a person's life has to fall completely apart, but most need to be made uncomfortable to change. No offense, but some of the comments on this thread come from a very high horse.

Bluelight is a harm-reduction board. Anyone who joined early, around 99-2002 will remember that it sprang from pill reports. This question might do better over there, in fact, I bet it has been brought up many times. I haven't been on BL in awhile, might need to stop by.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Dana D D wrote:
I don't agree with what this guys doing at all. I do agree that he is on a recovery forum asking to find alternative ways to "USE" Sub to get the feeling he wants to achieve. BUT all meds were made for a specific purpose even oxy and oxyctn. I know that I did not use those as prescribed "OPIATE ABUSE." He isn't using Sub as prescribed "SUB ABUSE." So if you used any legit RX to obtain your high you can judge but you are hypocritical. It is exactly the same it is RX abuse. So if you take offense to his use then you should be angry with anyone that uses any RX in an abusive manner.


SNAP

So much of this stuff goes on here when people admit to misusing their Suboxone.

Sure most of us are in recovery now. There are SO many who previously abused opioids meant for legitimate painkilling purposes, doctor shopping and deceiving. What about all those people who were using their agonists responsibly AS prescribed, who were denied treatment or made to jump through hoops because so many of US were doing the wrong thing?

Now WE complain about the people who are doing to us on Suboxone exactly what we were doing to all those people! Hypocrisy is one label for it.

Have we conveniently forgotten that the abuse of opioids is a part of a DISEASE? That OP is a sick person in need of help? Even if he doesn't want to quit the high YET, isn't it better for his health and life to abuse a safer opioid like buprenorphine than risk his life piling on the agonists?

It totally discourages people in OP's situation from becoming responsible Sub users if they leave here thinking responsible Sub users are hypocritical and lacking in compassion.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:56 pm 
tearj3rker wrote:

Sure most of us are in recovery now. There are SO many who previously abused opioids meant for legitimate painkilling purposes, doctor shopping and deceiving. What about all those people who were using their agonists responsibly AS prescribed, who were denied treatment or made to jump through hoops because so many of US were doing the wrong thing?

Now WE complain about the people who are doing to us on Suboxone exactly what we were doing to all those people! Hypocrisy is one label for it.

Have we conveniently forgotten that the abuse of opioids is a part of a DISEASE? That OP is a sick person in need of help? Even if he doesn't want to quit the high YET, isn't it better for his health and life to abuse a safer opioid like buprenorphine than risk his life piling on the agonists?

It totally discourages people in OP's situation from becoming responsible Sub users if they leave here thinking responsible Sub users are hypocritical and lacking in compassion.


YES YES YES!! This is the stuff!!!

I am not a big AA fan, but I do like the phrase "Let's make sure we are all taking our own inventories instead of someone else's."


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