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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:39 am 
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Ok I will start off by saying know it's a horrible to do but that's what I haven been doing. With that being said I was hoping someone would be able to give me some advice. I'm on day 7 since last sub for the week prior I would take a sub every other day. I had taken the subs for about 1 month then tried to stop but only made it day 5 and back on so now I'm trying this method in hope that I was able to kick The percs like I did months ago. A little back ground stopping them was a hard 3 days but then it was done the extreme depression was the hardest part. However a family member takes them for pain so easy to get them and hard to avoid I thought I was stronger and bam. We all have probably have had this happen 1 turned back into a habit and within a week I was right back where I had been. So then I tried subs wish I would have listened to all the people who said deal with the perc withdrawal subs are worse but I was afraid of how suicidal I became, was almost hospitalized. So now attempt like 8 to get this shit behind me. So I still fell the withdrawals from subs at day 7 can't sleep past few nights take ambien but only works for like 3 hours. So I have been taking a perc in the am at like 7 and it keeps the withdrawal at bay then wait till it gets really bad take another one around 2. Been doing this for about 4 days now. Wondering when the worst will past to ware I won't need to take anything to stop the flu like symptoms. I hadn't taken the subs for that long but I was taking 8mg when I was and when I stopped. I read that taking the percs are just prolonging withdrawal does that mean I just keep withdrawaling for weeks? Or will the worst be over in the next few days so I can stop and just deal with the mild withdrawals from using a week in 1/2 of the percs. Or should I take a pin size of a sub or will that just restart everything. I'm just so sick of this marry go round i really feel like I'm going to snap. I'm so angry at starting again after a month of nothing I felt so good. I need to be strong and i want to be , I don't like the person I have become. My family needs me and I don't want to be in a fog during these wonderful years I will never get back. Thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:09 pm 
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What dose did you stop the sub? Taking Percs is a horrible idea. You're just continuing the merry go round, in my opinion. Tapering the sub to a low dose is the easiest, least risky way to get clean.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:04 pm 
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Hi,
I am sorry to hear how you are struggling with the W.D.' S. The best advice I would give you would be for you to give yourself at least 24 hrs off of perc, then take the smallest effective dose of sub. for you to feel ok. Just enough to take the edge off and able to manage. I would try .5mg increments, once stable, you can begin a slow taper from suboxone from there. Take your time tapering from sub. You could actually be off of sub fairly quickly with very mild withdrawal symptoms( everybody is different) The key is a slow taper and if you re-induce yourself at a low dose you can actually be totally clean in a relatively short time, maybe 4-8 weeks. Small price to pay for a successful taper.

Sounds like your ultimate goal is to be clean, right? Well the best way to be clean is to follow what addicted people on this forum have done to get clean and stay clean. Remember just ridding our bodies of a substance does not mean we will stay off of a substance long term without putting a long term plan in place. Addiction, is a truly powerful thing. Has a way of sneaking back up and whamo!!. How will you plan to stay clean afterwards? While tapering the sub. put a plan for yourself in place. I hope this helps you, there is a lot of great advice in this forum.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Well, it sounds to me personally like you are in a bad spot. I can't for the life of me think sanely that to get off Suboxone I should try percs.. Makes no sense. I was a 25 10/650 hydrocodone user for almost 10 years, I just started 2 weeks ago on Suboxone and am on 16mg a day. I take a strip in the morning when I first get up and one in the afternoon. For me it is a godsend, I truly believe if used properly this is a miraculous drug. In your situation I would try and do maybe 4mg of suboxone a day and include some serious therapy or counseling.. I use AA, as I have a raging alcohol problem as well. It helps tremendously to know there are others out there who suffer from the same disease. Try it is all im saying.. AA does work and there are now a lot of younger folks in the program. But please don't let this diesease fool you into thinking percs could help in anyway.. just be honest and say I want to get high.. or feel something other than normal, I've been there.. Just try small doses of Suboxone and some serious therapy.. Good luck hun, don't ever give up the fight !!
-Travis-


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:57 pm 
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I couldnt agree more with the last poster. It seems these last two days we have seen two or three new people on here who are having trouble useing this med the way it was made for.
Everyones recovery is there own, but shortcuts do not work in the end.
Slow tapering will. Lougtime use with other things like aa/na can work. Information is power. Ask and look for real answers. This is a great dorum owned by a great Dr.
Read his blog over at the Talk Zone. Find some help in all of this..best of luck to all....razor...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:32 am 
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in my opinion you need to make a decision right now. you can go to a doctor and do suboxone under his care which should include steady counselling. or just say you are done with the medicine and do steady counseling. either way, you need therapy. certain people may have the willpower to just stop. but you tried 8 times and relapsed every time. just like me, and just like millions of others...so your best decision would be to go get into counselling and go find meetings on top of the counselling. and after a week or 2 if you continue to relapse(dont freak out, its not the end of the world) then maybe a decent run on suboxone would be fitting. it will definately work if thats what you want to do. talk with your counselor and together find a suboxone doctor.and the 3 of you plan out your recovery. the suboxone will prevent you from relapse and withdrawl while the counselling will get down to fixing the real issues of your addiction. once you make life changes and get away from an addict lifestyle, you can then gradually taper the sub, and there may be some withdrawl once you jump, but you wont be feeling that w/d as an addict(and jumping right back to relapse) - you will have a way better chance at dealing with the mild w/d and moving on with your life. hope this helps you and good luck and God bless!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:51 pm 
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Hi Angel,

You have already received some great responses. However, I would like to point out a couple of things for you in hopes you will better understand why using percs isn't such a great idea. Of course, there is the obvious reason, this is what you are trying to get away from. Going back on them thinking that this time will be different just won't work. I'm sure you have tried numerous times to taper and quit the percs and figured out that it just isn't possible for MOST people. I personally believe going back on the suboxone is your best option. I understand that you want to get clean, but if you do the program the way it is intended you will have a much better chance at getting clean and staying clean.

Yes, using the suboxone again will set you back in your detox. But, so is the Percocet you have been taking twice a day. (Honestly...only twice?) The percs are a short acting opiate. They will hold your withdrawal at bay for 3 or 4 hours, but that's it. And if you were to be completely honest with yourself you would see that every time you take one you are getting a mild euphoria from it. Granted, it's probably not much...but it's there. If you can't make it through a CT detox, like most of us here, you are much better off going back to the subs in as small a dosage as possible to hold your WD's and cravings at bay. Once you are stable you can start a slow taper. Tapering with suboxone is much easier than trying to taper any SAO's. You can drop your dose in microgram amounts every week until you reach an incredibly small dose. Your body will go through a few days of mild WD with each drop, but NOTHING like what you are feeling now. There are a ton of taper schedules that have been posted in this section of the forum and I would suggest you read through a few of them to see details of how others have tapered and honest accounts of how they were feeling with each drop. Information is power.

The real issue though isn't really getting off the opiates. You can do that, you've done it before. The harder part is staying off of them when the depression sets in. You could get clean and be two or three months off, feeling good...then you have a crappy day and happen to run into that family member who has plenty of percs to give away and Bada-Bing...right back in.

You need to find some kind of program or support group to help you learn the skills you will need to have a fighting chance at true sobriety. AA/NA are obvious choices...some people love them, others not so much. If you're not the AA type there are other programs out there, you just need to look around in your area and see what's available. Another great option is getting in with an addiction counselor. I've heard of many people right here on this forum who have been greatly helped by a good addiction counselor. Whatever you choose, you just need to stick with it and give it a real go.

Angel, you can do this! We will be here to offer support, but the hardest part of it will be up to you. Once you decide you REALLY want off, no doubts in your mind, you will be surprised at how much you can accomplish. Be ready to fight for it, and look at every little victory, every day you don't use more subs than you are supposed to with your taper schedule as a huge accomplishment. You should be extremely proud of yourself once you decide to do this the right way. We all know how hard it is, and we will all be here to cheer you on.

Good luck! Keep us posted on your progress.

Qhorsegal2

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:06 am 
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I do go to therapy been going for a few years and I also go to a meeting that is held at my church. I have 3 little children so it's hard to go to as many things as I would like. I never had a problem with anything up until after my 3rd child I guess you can say the storm had the right mixture and bam! I was given percs in hospital after birth and then after for about a year. Then I started to realize how much I was taking and running out then making stops at er and dr shopping and took a step back a decided I needed to stop.

My husband works shift work and is never around I feel like a single parent a lot of the time I know if I could get a few days to sweat it out id do that but I don't have that kind of time right now so I'm trying my best to minimize the withdrawal. I can't go to a dr anymore my husband put in calls to our DR and pharmacy and local hospital telling them I'm an addict (yes horrible time in our marriage I told him for support and he just took my trust and ruined it so been going to couples counseling). I just feel alone in my fight bc there is so judgement found this out the hard time when I came clean to all my family and friends. I have been building support systems at my group which is good but we only meet once a week and was canceled all last month due to snow and then holidays.

As far as this recovery attempt I have been able to last all day with out but one in the morning I take one of my .5mg kolonpins in the afternoon then my ambian to sleep and I get a few hours of rest but then wake up sweat, cramps, aches and nausea. So then I took another one when I couldn't take it anymore. I feel that they are becoming less intense which is why I able to go longer maybe Bc it comes in waves? IDK but I'll state about the other meds I'm suppose to take kpin every day but I don't up until these few days I have made it to ware I only take as needed and ambian I have been on for years as well and also only take as needed.

Also I was taking 8mg of sub for the 2 months when I stopped so from what I read bad idea to stop at that dose. But I do have 10 8mg strips left if I do decide to do what many of you suggest go back on a very small does for the next month maybe .5mg then .25mg? But I do feel like withdrawals are getting less intense.

I will keep updating, thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:30 pm 
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Angelwing wrote:
Ok I will start off by saying know it's a horrible to do but that's what I haven been doing. With that being said I was hoping someone would be able to give me some advice. I'm on day 7 since last sub for the week prior I would take a sub every other day. I had taken the subs for about 1 month then tried to stop but only made it day 5 and back on so now I'm trying this method in hope that I was able to kick The percs like I did months ago. A little back ground stopping them was a hard 3 days but then it was done the extreme depression was the hardest part. However a family member takes them for pain so easy to get them and hard to avoid I thought I was stronger and bam. I honestly feel like I should hire a personal injury lawyer. We all have probably have had this happen 1 turned back into a habit and within a week I was right back where I had been. So then I tried subs wish I would have listened to all the people who said deal with the perc withdrawal subs are worse but I was afraid of how suicidal I became, was almost hospitalized. So now attempt like 8 to get this shit behind me. So I still fell the withdrawals from subs at day 7 can't sleep past few nights take ambien but only works for like 3 hours. So I have been taking a perc in the am at like 7 and it keeps the withdrawal at bay then wait till it gets really bad take another one around 2. We all know how it is. Been doing this for about 4 days now. Wondering when the worst will past to ware I won't need to take anything to stop the flu like symptoms. I hadn't taken the subs for that long but I was taking 8mg when I was and when I stopped. I read that taking the percs are just prolonging withdrawal does that mean I just keep withdrawaling for weeks? Or will the worst be over in the next few days so I can stop and just deal with the mild withdrawals from using a week in 1/2 of the percs. Or should I take a pin size of a sub or will that just restart everything. I'm just so sick of this marry go round i really feel like I'm going to snap. There are suggestions on many sites that I have tried, but they didn't work. I'm so angry at starting again after a month of nothing I felt so good. I need to be strong and i want to be , I don't like the person I have become. My family needs me and I don't want to be in a fog during these wonderful years I will never get back. Thanks


You need to do the right thing for your family and do not take the percs. Are the WD symptoms really worse than being out of it for your family?


Last edited by ps105 on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:47 pm 
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Angelwing, I really understand where you're coming from. It is so like us addicts to think that another pill could fix stuff. I think it can take a long time to change our thinking about that. And our addiction likes to whisper in our ear things like, "You need the percs for your withdrawal symptoms."

Unfortunately, what you've been reading is true. Our own subdoc says that when you take more opiates after quitting that you set yourself back and withdrawal does take longer. There are some on this forum that say you shouldn't take any pill to help the withdrawal symptoms, and, yes, you should be careful about taking benzos. But I'm a big believer that clonidine can significantly help with withdrawal symptoms and its abuse potential is not very big. Is there any way you could have a doctor prescribe you that medication for withdrawal? Immodium is also said to be very helpful.

You probably should just get rid of the percs. I certainly couldn't have them in the house without taking them. I wish you well. Withdrawal is hard, but it doesn't last forever. If all else fails then I think you should consider taking a low level of sub for longer. Just my two cents.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:50 pm 
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Sorry if someone's said something really close to this, I'm just reading OP's today...

IMO, anyone thinking of taking full-agonists in a controlled-way for X-period-of-time need to have a serious, honest discussion with their prescriber regarding how realistic their plan is and if they should, indeed, be getting off Suboxone at all. To me, the thinking of the OP is very dangerous and will likely not be helpful in the long-run but only potentially detrimental.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:21 am 
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I agree what everyone has said this is a bad idea still 10 days later as soon as the percs start to ware I start cramping and runny nose. I imagine this would have been gone by now had I not been trying to minimize the withdrawl so I can get though my day. I wish I had never touched anything and listened about not doing the sub to kick my 30mg habit, I should have just sweatily out it sucks but this sucks worse. So my husband works shift work and will have 5 days off in a few days and that will be it nothing but some vita water and my tablet locked in my room.
If anybody is wondering to do what I have don't it sucks makes you able to get through the day sure but night you still can't sleep no matter with my ambian or kolonpin it really doesn't make the processe easier so not only do you have long acute withdrawals your going to face hard withdrawals as soon as you stop all, so stupid.
Good luck everyone


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:54 pm 
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angelwing, how are you doing? what has the past few days been like...if you are still marching through the w/d's keep on going and maybe use your sleep meds at night to assist sleeping...also taking a hot bath or shower in the evening would help...even if you relapsed or are taking 1 perc a day to get by, check back in..there is lots of support here thatcan especially help ppl in your situation....at this point of your addiction, the biggest tool is support so check back in

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:00 am 
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I am sorry to tell you Angel that taking percs to get off subs, is like taking a piss in the Pacific Ocean.
Evidently you are not inform enough. You are not getting off subs, your switching to percs, because guess what? The day that you will try to stop the percs, you will fail! I am sorry to be so up front, but I was on subs for 5 years (now off for a year) and you must go thru the pain and misery, to really learn the lesson. Again, get informed! There is hope, yes! It will pass, but it takes time!
Teach yourself to tell your brain, NO!
Good luck,


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:59 am 
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Update: i switch to Vicodin since it's lower then Percocet. I'm now 48hours clean of subs Percy's Vicodin an any other opiates. It have to stay the only withdrawals I'm facing is the diarrhea, which Imodium does help and no energy feel sluggish my Kpin does help my anxiety but makes me tired and feel kind of out of it which I don't like but I'm hoping by day 3 I will have some of that energy back and need nothing. I hope everyone is doing well and keep up the work and just take it hour by hour.


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