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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:58 pm 
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I’m writing to ask about the use of naltrexone for withdrawal from suboxone.

I live on one of the outer islands in Hawaii, not close to any major clinic or medical center. About four years ago I was prescribed Endocet for pain. After about 18 months of ever-increasing doses and ever-diminishing contact with reality and a loss of my ability to function adequately at my work and in life, I realized I was deeply dependent. I no longer had the pain, but I was thoroughly habituated to the pain killer.

I then met the one doctor on this island who prescribed suboxone. He had only very recently become certified. I started at 16 MG, and that was about a year ago. By last November I had weaned myself down to 2 mg a day. Then when I tried to take it the last step … I went over a week with 0 mg, doing well I thought, until I got blind-sided by a sudden, steep resurgence of the withdrawal symptoms. So I went back on 2 mg for two months and then tried it again. I had the same experience. After eight days off, it became unbearable. I started doing research online and discovered that suboxone dependency or addiction is virulent, and very difficult to kick. I realize I'm not walking around every day now in a cloud like I was, but I'm still totally addicted. I don’t know what to do.

I’m not hooked on any high or effect. I don’t take suboxone for pain management. I take it only so I won't go into withdrawal. In fact, I frequently forget to take it before bed, and then I wake up in the morning in withdrawal. It has become a disease itself. I really want to be rid of it…so I can travel again without fear of losing my pills or not having it, and even so I can go to bed at night without first having to dissolve something under my tongue so I don’t wake up ill. My local doctor who prescribes the suboxone keeps telling me the only way is to taper off gradually. But he doesn’t get it, even though he doesn’t have any patient yet who has managed to kick it.

I recently read about naltrexone, which is used as an implant in rapid detox but also can be taken orally. This seems to be a way to go. The only down side that I’ve read about is if you are truly an addict who requires the high, this won’t work. The literature refers to poor treatment retention and low patient compliance because naltrexone's lack of agonist activity (that means it doesn’t get you high, am I right?). And it does not provide any drug reinforcement when discontinued (that means it produces no negative consequences or withdrawal symptoms, right?). But to me – that sounds perfect. Is it?

Does anyone know anything about using naltrexone orally for kicking suboxone addiction?

Thanks much for any help,


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:08 pm 
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Hey there.

I dont have a lot of knowledge about naltrexone, but I think that possibly it would make your withdrawal worse than it would be without it, since its a pure antagonist

I stopped Suboxone once at 8mg/day. Talk about fun! I had about 3-4 weeks of withdrawal, but honestly it wasn't the end of the world. I'd say days 5-7 were pretty bad, and I had bad mood swings which were probably the worst part. If you really want to stop, just stop.

Like I told someone else before, its easy to stop taking opiates, its hard to stay stopped. Try to think of the reason why you ended up on Suboxone in the first place, and weigh that compared to taking Suboxone every day.

The Dr. had some great suggestions on tapering and you should check out his blog (the link 'talk zone blog' at the top of this page. I'd suggest tapering if you can, its the best way to go to avoid withdrawal.


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 Post subject: Tapering
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:06 am 
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I tried to stop the suboxone at 1mg a day, and still had w/d symptoms; so I can imagine 2mg is still too high of a dose to jump off at. I cut the 2mg pill in half and took the 1mg per day for about a month before I cut my dose again. The problem with one dose per day is at the low doses is that it doesn't work for the whole 24 hours. I started cutting my 2mg pill in quarters, so I had 4/ .5 mg pieces. When I took .5mg twice a day I felt better. I did that for a few weeks, then cut my dose again. Cutting the .5mg piece in half and taking .25mg twice a day. I did that for a week. The last few days I have only taken .25mg once a day. I did have some flu like symptoms that I took immodium for the last week. And I had the restless leg thing where I couldn't sit still. Today is the first day that I didn't take any suboxone. Today when I woke up I actually felt kind of normal. My nose wasn't running and I wasn't yawning constantly. A few hours after I woke up I started feeling restless and my nose started running, and the yawning thing again. But I have to say waking up without that feeling actually gave me hope. I took a xanax and an ultram (both from my sub doctor as I have anxiety and chronic pain.) They helped me make it through the day, and I feel hopeful. I have been on suboxone for 16 months now. When my sub dose was higher it controlled my chronic pain, but since my dose was lowered below 4mg a day it hasn't helped with that anymore, and I have been dealing with w/d symptoms everyday with the lower doses. I don't think the last week would have been as uncomfortable if I would have waited longer between cutting my dose down, but I just want to be done.
Good luck to you. Just go slower, and don't be afraid to cut the pill up. If it crumbles I scrape it onto a piece of paper and pour it under my tongue.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:19 pm 
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Hi Jonathan,
Cricket gives you what I think is really good advice. From all that I have read, people who have tapered successfully do it very slowly and using what alot of them call "crumbs". They keep a low dose for as long as two weeks before going even lower. I've read stories from people who have gone off that way with little to no withdrawals at all. Personally, I do not intend to go off Suboxone for a very long time, but everyone is different. I wish you good luck! Keep us posted.
Melissa


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:12 pm 
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I forgot where I heard it but there is a Pharmacist or Doctor in Upstate New York who has liguid suboxone so you can measure out really low doses. Also on this forum you can find info to disolve 8 mg tablet or in your case 2mg and dissolve into a 10ml of water. If useing 2mg each ml will have 200mcg of suboxone. 1ml=1,000mcg. Aim for 100mcg reduction if taking 8mg and I assume 50mcg reduction in 2mg. The advice is for 8mg so I'm not sure about reducing 100mcg from 2mg dose. You can get ml droppers from a drug store. Those things you squeez and the liguid come up. Do a search on this forum for "suboxone taper"


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:49 pm 
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I believe the pharmaceutical company that makes Suboxone recommends at least a 3-5 Suboxone-free days(longer with other pure opiate agonists) before starting Naltrexone. I assume that they are talking about low dosage Suboxone like 2mg on that last day, not 24 mg.

As with any advice you receive from anyone including me, make sure you talk to your own physician first. If he/she doesn't know, tell him/her to contact that pharmaceutical company. Naltrexone has its own risks which you should discuss with your physician.


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 Post subject: Naltrexone for Sub Detox
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:29 pm 
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A few years ago (before most medical professionals knew anything about Sub detoxes), my Dr recommended and implemented the follow method for my Sub detox:

Decrease dose to 2mgs every 24 hrs. Stop taking, wait 48 hrs, then take 1 100mg Naltrexone tablet every 2 hrs until withdrawal symptoms subside.

Let me just say (as I'm certain you have already guessed) that this was complete and utter HELL. What I was technically doing was the same thing as a rapid detox using a large quantity of pure opiate antagonist-- sans the general anesthesia that is normally given during such a procedure.)

From a 2mg Sub jump-off, imagine squeezing a 10-15 day detox into an afternoon.... I'm surprised the experience didn't give me PTSD. I still felt pretty bad for the week after, and my skin crawled for the next 13 1/2 weeks.

However, I am currently at the end of a slow, liquid taper, have a few tablets of Naltrexone left, and I'm thinking of MAYBE trying it again if my withdrawal symptoms wind up dragging on and on. Two hours of slight discomfort (I'd be coming off .1 mg this time, instead of 2mgs) would be better than 2-3 weeks of nagging WD symptoms.

We'll see how brave I get. I'll post if I try it.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:26 am 
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I'm not sure how an antagonist can help with WD's? Why would using one make it faster to get thru WD's?

Every single thing I've read about the "Rapid Detox" method has been negative. All it does is get the drug out of your system quickly. Those who have posted about it have all said they regretted the experience and it was esentially a nightmare.

I don't disagree with you... I just don't understand....


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:18 pm 
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Sub,

The Concept:
My Dr explained that opiate WD symptoms occur as/when the opiate agonist disassociates from the receptors. The longer the drug takes to "clear out", the longer the symptoms last. The length of the detox is (generally) directionally proportional to the agonist action of the opiate. A short-acting opiate agonist (dilaudid, etc.) produces a shorter duration of WD, and a longer-acting opiate (methadone, etc.) produces a longer WD. The amount of time that the person has been taking the opiate is also a factor.

A rapid detox puts the patient into twilight sleep or under general anesthesia while a pure antagonist (naltrexone, etc.) literally rips the opiate out. The sedation is necessary due to severe patient discomfort, and the vitals are monitored during the procedure. After several hours, the antagonist administration stops, and the patient is woken up. The opiates are gone, and the patient is technically withdrawn from the drug.

If the patient was a light drug user, they usually report feeling tired and sore, but pretty good. They have related the feeling to the first "I feel better today" day of their prior typical opiate detoxes. The heavy drug users report feeling worse and often report feeling mild flu symptoms for the next week or so. However, all patients seem to agree that, although it wasn't a walk in the park, it was still better than their prior detoxes.

My Experience:
I've done a rapid detox without any anesthesia, and it was insanely horrible. But I jumped off 2mgs of Sub: too much and too soon. I only waited about 30 hours from my last dose before taking the naltrexone. The Dr had recommended I wait 48-72 hours. I believe these factors were the reason I had a negative experience.

My boyfriend at the time also did it, and had a better experience. He jumped at 1 mg, but had not dosed for 3-4 days prior to taking it. (He/we had run out before our Dr appt.) We took the naltrexone at the same time. My symptoms: (much worse than his) skin-burning, chills, projectile vomiting, diarrhea, cramping, sweating, complete fetal position. Meanwhile...he said, "my stomach feels bad", jumped into bed, and went to sleep.

Two hours pass...I do feel alot better, but I can't believe I have to take another one. We both took a second pill (100mgs naltrexone) I felt just as horrible as the previous 2 hrs, he is still sleeping.

Two hours pass... Boyfriend is now running around the apartment, washing dishes, listening to music and making something to eat. Every two hours, I take another tablet, until FINALLY when it wears off, I feel ok. Tired, thirsty, needing a shower. But I felt like my body had been through a "melt-down."

I had tried to jump off Sub at 4mgs previously, and couldn't make it to day 6. After the naltrexone detox, I felt like "day 2-3" of that last jump-off attempt. However, I had sweating, chills and my skin crawled until May 23rd. 13 1/2 weeks to be exact. Can you imagine? One day, all the symptoms magically disappeared. And never came back. That is why I remember the date. It was very strange.

Using naltrexone a few days after the final Sub dose would quickly clear out the remaining drug. By that time, say 72 hours?, you're only actually pulling out half of what was left (the Sub half-life is 72 hours, right?). From my previous attempt, it seemed that the more drug that was being disassociated, the worse the symptoms were. So it follows that antagonizing a very tiny leftover dose would not be a big deal to go through (and it only lasts 2 hours). And by finishing the clear-out, you avoid a week or two of lagging WD. I bet Dr JJ would know the answers.

I am really thinking of trying it. If I can handle 6-8 hours from a 2mg jump, then 2 hours from a .05mg should be easy. My boyfriend jumped from approx .5mgs. It would be great to get the entire detox over and done with in 3-4 days. I will definitely post if I try this. I hope I've answered some of your questions.

Annmarie


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:46 pm 
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Yes you've clarified some things... If you try naltraxone with your wd's... please do post your results. I just can't imagine 3-4 days of mild wd's for a long-term user. But then others have posted even less symptoms with a slow taper and no taper.

Perhaps I should have clarified concerning the rapid detox's I was referring too. These were from methadone and suboxone users who tried this rather than a slow taper. You can find some of the subs experiences over at the Bupe Forum at AddictionSurrivors.org

I can understand the theory behind this and it sounds good... but I don't know if there has been any research to support this. Do you know of any?

I had seriously considered the rapid detox place in sou calif which uses the Waismann method but after reading all the bad experiences... I decided against it. Most everyone said all it did was get them ready for wd's quicker. One thing you can be sure of... if it really worked well for subs users, we would be seeing the postings here supporting it.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Thanks for the forum link for the naltrex experiences. I just started searching for that information. I have found a few studies, but cannot gain access to the info because I am not a professional member of the Whatever Medical Organization. It may be possible to visit a medical library, though.

I wouldn't waste my money on having one of those detox procedures. Also they do not have the patient abstain from opiates before the procedure, they haven't started WDing yet. If the naltrexone is administered too closely to the agonist dose you get precipitated severe withdrawal syndrome. Yuck! But I'm sure you are familiar with that concept.

Some former opiate addicts use Naltrexone every day to avoid relapse (as it occupies the receptors and blocks the high), and some report they feel better when they are taking it. Sometimes, it is a condition of the rapid detox procedure to have a long-acting time-release naltrexone pellet implanted in the patient's arm or abdomen. Hence, the patient will not be able to get high for that period of time (lasts up to 8 months or so). There are also reports of patients who have used an xacto knife to dig the implant out. So now they are placed underneath the muscle to deter an easy extraction.

There is no way my boyfriend just escaped a lengthy detox after being on Sub for years. He was mildly sick for the 3 days of no Sub, alot sicker during the naltrexone dose (2 doses, 4 hours total), but directly afterward he was almost totally normal. The next day he was biking all over town. The naltrexone finished his detox. Or is it possible that a Sub detox, jumping off of 1mg, could be over in 4 days? He had taken the Sub every day for over 2 years prior to the detox, with a starting dose of 24mgs, then weaned down to 1-2mgs for about a month just prior to stopping.

Like you, I have only heard stories from patients or found little information on the subject. I may PM Dr JJ. My one-time experience using it was not pleasant, but I can understand that it MAY be beneficial in shortening the total detox time if used correctly. I'm really interested in any info you can find. There are days that I want my taper to be over so badly, that I start thinking about just taking the whole bottle of naltrexone. But don't worry, I'm not that crazy.

I am going to stick with the slow taper, but I may take the naltrexone the 4th day after my last Sub dose. And not any sooner. I'll post if I do.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:00 pm 
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You have guts! I have no advice or information on it and I think everyone is so different as you have already pointed out, but I am interested in the results if you try it. I jumped off 12mg and may not have minded speeding up that process myself on about day 5 or so. Probably would have been worth it.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:16 pm 
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JackC,
The more opiates you're antagonizing with the naltrexone, the worse you'll feel after taking it. My rationale is jumping off .1mg should produce about 1/20th of the WD I felt during that first experience, in other words, tolerable. If I wait 3 days after my last Sub dose, I would be antagonizing even less.

IF I take it, I will probably wait until evening (10pm?), taking 1 or 2 ambien beforehand. I was prescribed that before for sleep and it worked very very well. I have not taken any in 5+ years, so I have zero tolerance. It should completely knock me out during the next 2 unpleasant hours. I am hoping to sleep through the night, and wake up feeling much better.

I've read that it takes very large amounts of naltrexone to antagonize the Bupe as compared to other opiates. This is why it is administered repeatedly until the patient reports feeling better or reports that taking the last dose had no adverse effect. (Naltrexone is also much shorter-acting than an opiate. It must be given repeatedly in cases of opiate overdose, but that is another topic altogether.) So I will need to find out how much to take. The goal is to take a large enough dose to fully clear out any remaining opiate/opiod.

Again, I really have little knowledge in this area, but if anyone has any experiences or advice or warnings, please post!! You may save me from making a huge mistake!! I am still on .5mgs Sub once a day, so it will be several weeks/months before I'm in a position to attempt any of this. I can tell you from past detox experiences though, around day5 of a horrible detox I'd almost try ANYTHING to speed it up/get it over with. It's during that vulnerable point that I very well may decide to trade another 2 weeks of lingering Sub WD for 2-4 hours of naltrexone hell.

AM


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:44 am 
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If you aren't totally comfortable with your choice then I would strongly advise you to PM Dr Junig and ask for his opinion. I think you should get all the info and input you can before trying this. Granted you seem to have a good plan but you know what they say about the best laid plans... no sense in putting yourself at risk for extra discomfort if the benefits aren't there.

Good luck with what ever you do.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:50 pm 
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I think that I agree with Suboxfreedom, in that you should try Dr. J or someone else that may have some better information. Although, I'm not even sure how much actual data-based information can be found about this. I think that theory and guesses might be the best that you'll be able to come by. I rather doubt there have been any studies or clinical trials conducted of what you are proposing to do. I have just enough knowledge to be dangerous when it comes to this topic, so I want to be very careful of what I say. I can tell you that some of the things you are stating seem questionable at best. For example, while the drug Narcan is "much shorter-acting than an opiate. It must be given repeatedly in cases of opiate overdose" (those are your words) is very true, I'm not sure that Naltrexone is the same way. In fact, I can tell you with 100% certainty, that ambulances and emergency rooms do not use Naltrexone to treat an overdose - they only use Narcan in an emergency situation. If you look up the half-life of these two drugs I'm thinking you will find them to be vastly different. Certainly blocking your receptors with whichever drug you use is going to be far less uncomfortable at 0.1mg of Suboxone than at 4 mg (or 8 or 16 or whatever). But will it really speed the process along? And if it does speed it along, what is the "price" (in discomfort) that you'll pay for that increased speed? Will it really be worth it? The thing is, you may have to be the one that answers these questions because you will be the test subject that finds out and then reports back to all of us. Are you ready to become a "test dummy?" On the plus side, it's not going to kill you. There really is no documented danger in what you are considering doing. However, it may hurt like hell and leave one heck of a lasting impression on your brain - one that you'll never forget.

I certainly hope that helps, at least a little. In the end, it's going to be up to you. Please be sure to let us know how it turns out. I'd love to hear how it works for you - since it is an interesting concept to say the least.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:06 pm 
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I agree with what you both have suggested, that there is more investigating to be done. I will certainly PM Dr JJ, as I would love to hear his opinion. The only other accessible sources I can think of to turn for information would be detox centers and my Addictionologist. The IP detox centers do offer rapid detoxes with Naltrexone/Naloxone that take severals hours where no anesthesia is given (only sedative-type comfort meds). My Addictionologist has been detoxing patients from Sub using this method for the past 5 years, so maybe it is time to give him a call and see if there are any improvements.

Using the antagonist last time DID significantly speed up my Sub detox, but I think that trying it from a 2mg jump was not the best idea. If I knew it would only be HALF as horrible, AND would knock off a week of lagging WD, I would still probably do it.

There are a variety of antagonists that are used in opiate overdose situations, but must be given repeatedly because the effects of the opiate agonist last longer than the antagonist, and their life-threatening effects may still be present. Unfortunately I have had more than one experience where I have had to administer an antagonist to an overdosed person after several CPR attempts had failed. Both of these people popped right up, but were in the middle of withdrawal within seconds. Do not try that at home. Call 911 instead.

Both naltrexone and naloxone are full antagonists and will treat an opioid overdose, but naltrexone is longer-acting than naloxone (although neither is an irreversible antagonist like naloxazone), making naloxone a better emergency antidote.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:13 am 
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although i admit i havent read the lion's share of this post, while scanning i saw a post regarding rapid detox of suboxone. It said if it were sucessfull then there would be posts. I have experience of this as i was given suboxone to get off a heavy opiod addiction. I have read posts here and elsewhere about tapering off from suboxone and/or painkillers. For me personally i had a really hard time tapering..I would get it down to such small amounts but when i tried to stop it just became unbearable after a few days. I wouldnt consider myself particularly weak, but i just couldnt do it. After several years of trying to wean off i actually did the Waismann's method of detox under deep sedation. It didnt just prepare me for wd's, ( and im familiar with wd's), but it actually circumvented almost all the symptoms id had before. I was a little weak for a few days and had loose stools for a while but nowhere near as bad as it had been. i did the procedure almost four years ago, and have been clean since. Suboxone helped at the time but i found i was just dependent on that instead..In my experience waismann worked for me when nothing else did.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:53 am 
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annmarie wrote:
A few years ago (before most medical professionals knew anything about Sub detoxes), my Dr recommended and implemented the follow method for my Sub detox:

Decrease dose to 2mgs every 24 hrs. Stop taking, wait 48 hrs, then take 1 100mg Naltrexone tablet every 2 hrs until withdrawal symptoms subside.

Let me just say (as I'm certain you have already guessed) that this was complete and utter HELL. What I was technically doing was the same thing as a rapid detox using a large quantity of pure opiate antagonist-- sans the general anesthesia that is normally given during such a procedure.)

From a 2mg Sub jump-off, imagine squeezing a 10-15 day detox into an afternoon.... I'm surprised the experience didn't give me PTSD. I still felt pretty bad for the week after, and my skin crawled for the next 13 1/2 weeks.

However, I am currently at the end of a slow, liquid taper, have a few tablets of Naltrexone left, and I'm thinking of MAYBE trying it again if my withdrawal symptoms wind up dragging on and on. Two hours of slight discomfort (I'd be coming off .1 mg this time, instead of 2mgs) would be better than 2-3 weeks of nagging WD symptoms.

We'll see how brave I get. I'll post if I try it.


THAT IS CRAZY!

I don't believe in sueing doctors at the drop of a hat, but that's extremely negligent. Basically he's taken the procedure for induction onto naltrexone for heroin, which has a much smaller half-life. Of course you're still going to have suboxone in your system at 48 hours post dose, especially if you've only reduced to 2mg! Not only that, but he induced you directly on a very high dose of naltrexone that has enough unpleasant side-effects in itself.

I too went through the rapid-detox thing, though I was on 90mg methadone and 24 hour post dose I had 50mg naltrexone. I think people like us should get little medals, or at least a t-shirt. That was one hell of a ride! Once upon a time I was quite the sucker for punishment it seems. So much for the "rapid detox" concept as well because I wasn't exactly 100% detoxed after that 24 hour rollercoaster dip through the caverns of hell. My family said my back was arched so hard they thought it would snap.

To pretent precipitated withdrawal (painful, not cool), the safest thing to do is to wait until you're over the worst of the withdrawal symptoms. Heroin that would be day 3, suboxone day 5-7. If you can't wait this long, organise with your doc to do what mine did. He had a very mild naltrexone liquid which he squirted on my tongue in tiny increments. After each squirt he'd send me to the waiting room to see if it induced withdrawal. If it did, it would only be mild because it was a small dose, and he then wouldn't put me on the pills. Some doctors also do this thing they call the "naloxone challenge" where they inject you with a dose of Narcan / naloxone to see if it precipitates withdrawal, and if it does they don't give you the naltrexone til another day when they do it again.

General thoughts on naltrexone? It's no magic bullet. It's been around for a long time, and they tried to use it on opiate addicts long before alcoholics. Treatment retention was poor. People on it would generally have their wife / husband / mother give them their daily pill, then they'd spit them out and use. Only thing is, naltrexone makes your receptors extremely sensitive to opiates, potentially more than someone who's never used, so they'd often overdose and die. It also had some side-effects for me. It made me extremely irritable, kinda like suboxone can at times, but much worse. Because it blocked my natural endorphins, I could feel pain in the parts of my body that will probably need attention as an old man - neck, back, joints. It also gave me headaches & had this strange, cold stimulant-like feel about it. All in all, not an extremely pleasant drug to take.

The only real potential for me that it would offer would be to take on occasion if I felt vulnerable to using, or if I was faced with a scenario where I knew there'd be temptation. I could take a naltrexone pill prior, then I'd know I couldn't use. But where would be the growth in that?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:57 pm 
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mortysmate wrote:
although i admit i havent read the lion's share of this post, while scanning i saw a post regarding rapid detox of suboxone. It said if it were sucessfull then there would be posts. I have experience of this as i was given suboxone to get off a heavy opiod addiction. I have read posts here and elsewhere about tapering off from suboxone and/or painkillers. For me personally i had a really hard time tapering..I would get it down to such small amounts but when i tried to stop it just became unbearable after a few days. I wouldnt consider myself particularly weak, but i just couldnt do it. After several years of trying to wean off i actually did the Waismann's method of detox under deep sedation. It didnt just prepare me for wd's, ( and im familiar with wd's), but it actually circumvented almost all the symptoms id had before. I was a little weak for a few days and had loose stools for a while but nowhere near as bad as it had been. i did the procedure almost four years ago, and have been clean since. Suboxone helped at the time but i found i was just dependent on that instead..In my experience waismann worked for me when nothing else did.


This sounds very interesting to me. Not just the "Waismann Rapid Detox Method" but using Naltrexone to possibly speed up the lingering withdrawals of suboxone.

I'm curious if more people have info on this, experience with any of it it (in any regards), or know more about it now (post is a year old, came up in a search).

I was thinking if I tapered down to about 0.5mg a day for a week/2 weeks and then stopped, the withdrawals would be mild and manageable with some benzo's/clonidine, but I know that the suboxone withdrawals really linger for 3-4 weeks (even longer for some; everyone's metabolism is different, among other things).

If you were on 0.5mg of suboxone for 1-2 weeks and then jumped off sub, and went through the mild withdrawals for about a week (5-7 days), it seems to me that at least scientifically it wouldn't be a bad thing to take naltrexone on day 5-7 of jumping off of 0.5mg (or even 1mg or less) if you had been on that low dose for around 10 days (unless you have a really slow metabolism).

I would love more info on this.... Having just read ONE poster (the person I quoted) state that the "Waismann Rapid Detox" helped him a ton is very interesting, maybe if you get to 1mg or less of sub a day (for 10+days so your stabilized on it) and jump off suboxone, wait more then 100+hours and then go and do the "Waismann Rapid Detox" maybe it could really work? Maybe the problem with that method is people are on 2mg (and just got down to it for 3 days) and then after 24 hours of not dosing they go and do the Waismann Method (or rapid detox of any-kind) and suffer from it, which makes sense if you look at the science of suboxone (it's half-life) and naltrexone (any opiate antogonist).

Please, anyone with actual experience of ANY TYPES OF RAPID DETOX PERSONALLY, not "I heard from my friend", would love for you to shed some more light on the subject, good or bad!

I have about a month (a little more) I can take off as I've been saving vacation time and the likes to use for when I finally jump off sub (the taper has gone well, though I recently had some struggles at 1.5 it's nothing major). This subject is just really interesting....

_________________
I have hit a block; long taper, got to 1mg daily and depression/anxiety kicked in. Back to 2-3mg a day, I feel like I relapsed... wtf!

One Love...


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:22 am 
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Rapid detox does not work.

I did it to myself once.

Too many reasons for me to explain right now...

All I can say is STOP LOOKING FOR SHORTCUTS TO GETTING OFF OPIOIDS. There is no easy-way-out off this ride.

Suboxone withdrawal isn't a challenge. The real challenge is staying clean post-withdrawal. And Rapid Detox has very very poor success with keeping people off opioids. Unless there's some kind of maintenance naltrexone in place, less people stay clean after ROID than off people who detox naturally.

Naltrexone is not the answer to your problems.

You are the answer.

Quit trying to find answers outside yourself. That's the reason we ended up addicts in the first place!

grrrrrrrr


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Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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