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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:42 pm 
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Well, this will probably be my last time here but I wanted to update you all on the step by step process of my clinical study. I jumped at 6 mg on Oct 6 - my birthday and put the first patch on that night at 8 PM. I was given "comfort meds" including clonidine, klonipin and baclofen (antispasmatic used with ms patients). Day 1 I did not really need anything, was not high, which is wierd given the facts that fentanyl is 1000 times stronger than morphine but again, that was NOT THE PURPOSE. Day 2 I was VERY emotional. my dr was available through my many phone calls and I was anxious, sad, and emotionally all over the place - took all comfort meds as prescribed but no physical pain. Day 3 was better. Took off patch at exactly 72 hours and after a long shower, put the second one on. felt down and out but each day I was able to hold it together a bit longer before having my come-a-part... Patch came off Tuesday and dr told me fent stays in my system one hour after taking patch off. woke up wednesday morning and felt the best i have ever felt in my life... i was reassured by dr that my receptors were largely free of the sub, but I had to wait the 4 days before starting the LDN. well, went away with my husband this weekend - much needed and deserved but withdrawal kicked in a bit in the physical sense which I was not expecting. only real symptom was bad kicking first night with intense bone pain in back and legs. was so happy i was away with no kids and my husband massaged the pain and I took my aleve, clonipin and baclofen and made it through. was pretty lethargic next day which was fine cuz all we did was lay by the pool and relax. second night I still was kicking but not as bad. I start the LDN tomorrow night which I am so excited about! I have had NO slips, nothing I am not supposed to do! I feel empowered that I am officially opiate free, but also excited to use the LDN as my maintenance drug which will boost my endorphins immensely starting day 1, and also act as an antagonist to prevent slips. only difference in MY choice of long term plan is that LDN is a drug that has autoimmune benefits, no withdrawal and can be stopped and started anytime relatively easily with no side effects (such as if I needed surgery again). I get it. I am an ADDICT. I have never actually said that before in that sequence. i have been very honest with my husband, doctors and a close confidant who is in the same boat and has been a source of support for me. one more day and I will have the LDN in my system working to rev up my endorphins. come to think of it, i may post again....


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:32 pm 
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Whay are you doing someunderstand or even know what LDN is some body any body help questions

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 Post subject: Good progress
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:44 pm 
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I have no clue what that response is to your post but......I read your origional post before you started this study and it sounds like things went ok for you. I am glad your discomfort was really mild or as mild as it could have been. I am really interested in seeing what the next part of your study does for you so please keep posting for those of us that are knowing that our day may come soon.

I have been truly contemplating tapering down and getting off suboxone after 19 mos. However like most I am worried about the w/d's and all that go with it. I had one experience in the past where I went 4 days without my suboxone and it scared me to death. I was having uncontrollable suicidal thoughts and panic attacks- it was terrible. I have even thought that I am so dependent on sub that I am considering in patient rehab to get off. I am scared so I stay on it. I am not looking for all the reasons I need to stay on sub or what I am feeling this way from others I am just interested in your study and how it works for you. So what.... I am looking for an easier softer way. Don't we all want that? Anyway let us know how it goes. You sound very excited about your progress. Good luck.

Jim


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:17 pm 
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Please post about how the LDN works for you, I'm really interested to hear how it goes. I'm glad you're hanging in there and feeling pretty well.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:37 am 
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I second DOQ's request. I too really hope that you will continue to post. Patients like you may be the best thing we have to find out what happens post Suboxone. I am especially interested in the LDN as I have thought for a while already that if/when I stop Suboxone, I would strongly consider this. However, I have also heard that some people report huge depression while on this and have also read that some think that it actually blocks our body’s normal endorphins. I have no idea if that is true or not. It just would be great to hear how you do both with PAWS and with the LDN. It certainly seems, from the people that I have read reports from, that the lingering depression post Suboxone seems to be the hardest thing that patients have to deal with. Hopefully that will not be the case for you. You certainly will be one of a very few that post here who have tried LDN.

Just as a small aside, you mentioned that Fentanyl is 1,000 times stronger than morphine. That is actually not true. It is 80 to 100 times stronger (per weight). Again, it's not a big deal but it's always good to make sure that correct information gets posted. You may actually have meant 100 and just got another zero in there by accident. Anyhow, it's good to hear that things seem to be going well for you so far. I'm really anxious to hear how this week goes. It's brave of you to try this - and nice of you to let us ride along with you on this ride.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:00 am 
Thanks so much for posting your experiences MW. I'm glad you're doing well! It really means a lot that you came back and posted how things have been going for you. If you hadn't, we'd all be left wondering if the method you tried worked, how it worked, how you felt along the way, etc. The information is truly valuable to all of us who hope to get off buprenorphine at some point. So again....thanks! And I hope you'll continue to come back periodically and update us on your progress. I know there are several who are interested in LDN and how that works out. And, of course, I think we're all interested in how things work out long term regarding continued sobriety, PAWS symptoms you may or may not have and so forth. I'm rooting for you and wish you all the success in the world in your efforts at living completely opiate free!

ReRaise....I'm with you on the 'fear factor' side of tapering and stopping Suboxone! I will post an update on my "Informal Taper" thread today which will address it in more detail.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:46 am 
Another thanks for your post. It's good information, and I really hope researchers can develop a protocol for getting off of Sub instead of all of us being out here floundering on our own, trying to taper, using various comfort meds, etc.

You noted that the fentanyl didn't have any effect on you even though it's 100x stronger than morphine. The reason is that the patches only give you microgram doses. The same is true of the temegesic (sp?) patches, which only give you mcg doses of bupe, so hopefully someone will study their effectiveness in withdrawing from Sub.

I wish you all the best, and please post again with whatever info. you might have on LDN.
Thanks,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:09 pm 
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Donh - have you heard that LDN causes depression? I thought it was regular-dose naltrexone - like if you were using it to block the effects of opiates in order to prevent relapse - that caused people to get really depressed & possibly stopped natural endorphin production. LDN is a fractional dose of what would be used to prevent opiates from working & is supposed to stimulate endorphin production.

I want to know what people know because I'm about to start trying to find a doctor who will prescribe this for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:20 pm 
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Actually DOQ, no, I have not heard this about the low dose of Naltrexone. I guess I actually have to plead stupid here, as I am not much aware of this low dose stuff at all. For whatever reason I thought that the low dose version was the long acting (three months) dose those that is available. In now doing just a very small amount of research, I see that this is a different animal - and actually does not block opiates like the standard dose does. While I have an interest in this, I clearly have a lot to learn about it. Although the more I learn, the more (like pretty much everything else) there are always side effects and down sides to medications. Sorry for the confusion.


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 Post subject: real quick on LDN
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:39 pm 
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DOQ is correct. the max dose that is "pro" endorphins is 4.5 mg. I am starting at 1.5. the dose that was referred to as blocking endorphins is around 50 mg, hence the low dose preface. I am very excited to start tonight! was reassured by dr and pharmacist that i will feel an immeditae difference in mood, energy and motivation the next morning, though it will taper through the day until my body gets used to it! I will keep you all updated, dont worry... :D


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