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PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:43 pm 
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So I recently miscarried. I was almost seven weeks when I went to my first OB appt only for them to say there was no heartbeat. I'm scheduled for a d&c tomorrow as my body is not passing anything on its own for some reason. I haven't cramped, bled, nothing at all, and it's been almost TWO weeks. They told me to give it time and my body would pass it but since nothing had happened I ended up getting scheduled for the procedure. Now my question is, I wrote only chart I'm in subutex, I was on suboxone but I switched when I found out I was pregnant of course. No one said anything when I said I was on subutex either. But since I found out they are putting me under some sort of sedation, I'm freaking out. They call it twilight sedation, but they didnt tell me what they actually use. I googled it and it seems like its a cocktail of a benzo, barbiturate, and sme sort of sodium something... All short acting, though. Now I'm afraid that the meds they're giving me will hurt me or cause me to stop breathing, is that possible? I told them I was on it. I'm prescribed 16 mg a day but usually take one a day. Is it safe to have the sedation, or should I ask for no sedation because of breathing problem risks? Has anyone had twilight sedation while on suboxone or subutex!? Thank you ahead of time. I'm Scheduled to go in tomorrow and I tried calling today to double check but they were already out of the office :(


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:06 am 
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I'm sorry that I don't have technical answers for your questions. I'm also unsure of how "twilight sleep" interacts with sub. One thing is for sure! Double check with them tomorrow and make sure they know of your suboxone use. I know that you made sure that it was noted in your chart, but assume that the doctor/anesthesiologist didn't read it and go over it again with them. I'm very sorry about the loss of your pregnancy; I know that miscarrying can be devastating.

I wish you the best, and I hope your question gets answered.

Amy

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:12 am 
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First I want to say Im so sorry for your loss,,,,,
i had two miscarraiges, in my 20s.... we were really trying too....
One of them was when I was actually on fertility meds....

but a few years later, I had a healty baby boy :wink:
so don't give up hope...... has the dr. told you that ONLY 35% of ALL fertilized eggs make it to a full term baby?
that's less than half, so when I was going thru everything, I tried to look at it as "natures way" of doing it right, or
practice, whatever helps you, ya know?
dont blame yourself,,,,,,, it's NOt your fault.

OKAY,
Now I had ALL MY TEETH pulled except four,,, and what your describing, is EXACTLY what they did, to me, twice, once for
the top teeth, once for the bottom teeth.
I stayed on my suboxone, and everything went really well,,, it did work, the second time I had to take another dose, so double
what I took the first, but that's the only thing......
Oh,
and I felt like I had a HANGOVER the next day. so make sure you've got some motrin and some kind of headache meds.
LOL

If you want to read about MY experience, you can here
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6 ... sc&start=0

I also wrote a lot about it on my blog, the links at the bottom of my post.

I hope that helps you.
again, Im so sorry your going thru this,,, but if a baby IS what you want, just hang in there, you'll be okay.
my OBGYN also told me MOST WOMEN have at least 3 miscarriages in thier lifetime,they just don't know it,
becuase it happens before they are ever "late"

Good luck with everything.
let me know if you NEED ANYTHING at all.....

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anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:19 am 
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they hooked me up to a pulse/blood pressure cuff for the first procedure, but everything went super well,
and they didn't even connect it, the second procedure.

the dr. wrote a script for triazepam and I forgot the other one, had me take ONE of each one hour before the
scheduled time, and bring them with me to the office.
When I got there, they hooked up that blood Pressure thing, and the dentist gave me one more dose, of each,
I fell asleep and woke up at home, took my suboxone, motrin, tylenol, and went back to bed!!!
LOL
my mouth was super super sore, but I made it w/o any opiates.

the morning OF the procedure, the first time, I didn't take my suboxone, the sub Dr. sugested I do it that way, so that the SUBOXONE would give Me "some" pain relief, after the procedure.........and much to my surprise it did.

the second time, I took my suboxone in the a.m. and my procedure was at noon.
and that second one, when I took the "first dose'' of the meds, at home,,, I didn't "feel" sleepy or anything,, I had got myself so oooo worked up about it.
So, I called and the dr. told me take one more, and bring the pills, with me again.
they ended up giving me another dose, there.
I had ZERO problems, like I said above, except for the hangover I mentioned.
I had a bad headache the next day, and kind of a quesy stomach.

Hope that helps, MORE.
I re-read thru your post again and noticed I didn't answer some of the questions.
Like I said,,,
don't hesitate to ask, if you have ANY MORE questions, or need any other information, Ok?

good luck,, I mean that :wink:

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Thanks!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:59 am 
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Thanks for the responses! That's gonna help put my mind at ease! But I'm gonna call early in the AM to make 109% sure they saw it in my chart!!! Thanks for the kind words :)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:19 am 
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GOOD IDEA

and I don't think it will matter one bit, suboxone to subutex, either. . . I forgot to add that.

Good luck, STILL!!!!

let us know how things go, IF you feel up to it, no pressure though.

~~~~SMILE~~~~

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Surgery
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Well, the dr I saw for the d and c was horrible. I told them again I was on subutex. She said, what is this drug your taking? I said, well, it's buprenorphine, I take it for opiate dependency... She cuts me off and says I know what it's for! Ok, then why did you ask me lol? So I said, I'm on subutex, not the one with naloxone, and she didnt even care I don't think lol. But she says, what's were you on before that, like what were you abusing? How long have you been an addict? I answered, well, I had back surgery when I was fifteen and had a rod and screws put in my spine. Long story short, I would've died without surgery, but the rod broke a few years late due to weight gain with first pregnancy. I've had lost of pain and was told ill need to be on pain meds for the rest of my life. But I didn't want to keep taking them, so I decided to get my doc to taper me off after about ten years of being on them, legally, with prescription. I said he suggested suboxone, referred me to a dr, and I found out I was pregnant in 2011. I said I was on the subutex since I was pregnant now and didnt want to have the baby on pain killers. She said, why didnt he take you off the drugs while pregnant? I said the doc told me it could kill the baby, the w/d. She said, ok, but you're still on it. Why? I said, well, I was weaning off but I just found out I'm pregnant again, so he stopped the wean. She asked why again, and again I said, so the baby won't be hurt! Duh right? Then she says, well I've Never heard of that. Then she asked me.... So were you shooting, I mean, were you using intravenously?? My eyes got huge. Where did she go from me telling her I have been prescribed pain meds my whole life, since a teenager, legally, no problems, to calling me a junkie? Anyways,i retold my story but she didnt care. She said she could give me an anxiety med thru the iv but nothing else, no opiate cuz of subutex, even though I hadn't taken it for a day and a half and brought the bottle with me. So I had it done, and it was extremely uncomfortable and apparently around here you get no pain relief if you are on subs even if you've lost your baby. Apparently she thinks I caused it and deserved to suffer in pain,... Sorry that was so long, just needed to get that out. I'm calling the dr tomorrow to file a complaint though, seriously.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 12:48 am 
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:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: [marq=down]WOW[/marq] :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


Im sooooooo sorry.......................
It wasn't bad enough, or hard enough on you to go through such a tramatic thing, but the Dr. had to be a douche, too huh?

jeeeeeeeeeeesshhhh

I'd DEFINITELY FILE A COMPLAINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Here's some information,,, that you can USE for your complaint to TEACH THEM a thing or two about suboxone,,,,,
so that MAYBE the next person doesn't have to go through what you did...........

so, MY FAVORITE info is on this site,
here's the link
http://www.naabt.org/education.cfm

Click "buprenorphine eduacation"
and I'd print out the FAQs page, and anything else you'd like to include, they have a GREAT color picture/pamphlet thing,
that shows EXACTLY how the 'bupe' attaches to the opiate receptors.
and how they fill up and you know, it doesn't make you high but fufills cravings, ETC ETC ETC
I think you should definitely include a few things from there, IF you feel like it,,
it's like given scientific information, PROVING your side.
know what I mean??
I actually ordered thier lil free "information brochure" about bupe, when I first went on it, I didn't have the internet, anyways, the pamplets/pictures I brought them WITH ME to EASTER DINNER, and passed them around to my family members,
it REALLY HELPED explain things for them, and to "see" it in another form instead of me just saying the same shit over and over
So, I guess that's why I like the naabt site so much to this day :wink:

ALSO,
here's Dr. J's post about w/d in newborns/pregnant women on bupe (I'll paste the article at the bottom here, so you can just print that, if you want to)
Link
http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com/withdra ... 0Blog%2529

Seriously,
that was so wrong for that dr. to do that/treat you that way....
I don't even know what to say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
except that it totally pisses me off.
let me know if there's ANYTHING else I can do for you, ANY more info you need or would like to use, to explain to them you are DOING THE BEST THING YOU CAN
and they should be NICE and supportive, NOT SHITTY AND JUDGEMENTAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(rant over!)

Okay, take care of yourself, try and do something nice for yourself, I don't know if you can buy a new outfit, or even a funny movie SOMETHING
do something just for YOU.
promise???
You deserve it!!!!!!!!

[marq=right]~~~~~~~sending you strength tonight~~~~~~~~[/marq]

Here's that article, by the suboxdoc

Withdrawal in newborns: Lay off the guilt trip!!

by J T Junig on 2010/02/01






I will share some thoughts that I left at a discussion at a ‘linked in’ group about addiction. I was responding to someone who was equating addiction and physical dependence in a baby born to an opiate-addicted mother. My feeling is that such women are given way too much of an attitude by the nurses and others who care for them, and that was the motivation behind my response. Read on:

There are many differences between physiological dependence and addiction to substances. For example, people who take effexor are dependent– and will have significant discontinuation-emergent side effects– but they are not ‘addicted’, which consists of a mental obsession for a substance. The same is true of beta-blockes, in that discontinuation results in rebound hypertension, but there is no craving for propranololol when it is stopped abruptly.



We have no idea of the ‘cravings’ experienced by a newborn, but I cannot imagine a newborn having the cortical connections required to experience anything akin to the ‘cravings’ experienced by opiate addicts, which consist of memories of using and positive reinforcement of behavior—things that are NOT part of the experience ‘in utero’.
It is also important to realize that the withdrawal experienced by addicts consists of little actual ‘pain’ (I’ve been there—I know). Addicts talk about this subject often, as in ‘why do we hate withdrawal so much?’ It is not physical pain, but rather the discomfort of involuntary movements of the limbs , depression, and very severe shame and guilt. The NORMAL newborn already HAS such involuntary movements as the result of incomplete myelination of spinal nerve tracts and immature basal ganglia and cerebellar function in the brain. And the worst part of withdrawal—the shame and guilt and hopelessness—are not experienced in the same degree in a baby who has no understanding of the stigma of addiction!

Finally, if we look at the ‘misery’ experienced by a newborn, we should compare it to the misery experienced by being a newborn in general. I doubt it feels good to have one’s head squeezed so hard that it changes shape—yet nobody gets real excited about THAT discomfort—at least not from the baby’s perspective! I also doubt it feels good to have one’s head squeezed by a pair of forceps, and then be pulled by the head through the birth canal! Many hospitals still do circumcisions without local, instead just tying down the limbs and cutting. Babies having surgery for pyloric stenosis are often intubated ‘awake’, as the standard of care– which anyone who understands intubation knows is not a pleasant experience. And up until a couple decades ago—i.e. the 1980s (!), babies had surgery on the heart, including splitting open the sternum or breaking ribs, with a paralytic agent only, as the belief was that a baby with a heart defect wouldn’t tolerate narcotics or anesthetic. I don’t like making a baby experience the heightened autonomic activity that can be associated with abstinence syndrome, but compared to other elements of the birth experience, I know which I would choose!

My points are twofold, and are not intended to encourage more births of physiogically-dependent babies. But everyone in the field should be aware of the very clear difference between physiological dependence and addiction, as the difference is a basic principle that is not a matter of opinion—but rather the need to get one’s definitions right. Second, the cycle of addiction and shame has been well established, and there is already plenty of shame inside of most addicted mothers. If there are ten babies screaming loudly, only the whimper from the ‘addict baby’ elicits the ‘tsk tsk’ of the nurses and breast feeding consultants. My first child was born to a healthy mom years before my own opiate dependence, and he never took to breast feeding; he his mother been an addict, his trouble surely would have been blamed on ‘addiction’ or ‘withdrawal’. Unfortunately even medical people see what they want to see—and sometimes that view needs to be checked for bias due to undeserved stigma—for EVERYONE’S good, baby included.
.
Read more at http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com/withdra ... JzGHBXv.99

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:42 am 
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I am SO sorry that your doctor was such an ASS!!! You might as well have kept it to yourself because all she did was make sure not to prescribe you opiates! She is obviously SUPER ignorant and arrogant, and I'm so glad you are filing a complaint! I wish I knew her information because I'd send her a letter myself. Some people don't deserve their medical degree.

I'm glad at least that the D & C is over and I hope you start feeling much better.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Wow. I'm sorry as well. Just to clarify, there are several articles out there about how to manage anesthesia in people on buprenorphine. The person paid to sedate you should know about them.


Consider 2 things-- send a copy of this download to the person: http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com/surgery.pdf

And complaints--- about privacy issues, bedside manner, and ignorance --- should go to your state's medical board. Their web page should have a section to report bad docs.

I'm sorry for your loss, and for how you were treated.

J


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:51 am 
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Wow I am sorry to hear about all of that. I had a miscarriage last year while on suboxone, 2 months into my pregnancy. Now I am 25 weeks pregnant and my baby is ok as of now. My doctors are all very supportive and understanding of my subutex usage while pregnant. Let me say that your doctor who did the d and c is a complete idiot because it is wayyyyy better that you stay on bupe while pregnant so you don't cause any stress on your unborn child. You also need to stay on it so your child doesn't go into withdrawal in utero and cause you to miscarry. If you stop taking sub while pregnant, you are also increasing the risk of using again as well.


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