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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:48 pm 
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I have been on the subs again for about three months. im done, I want to be done with them. I was taking 2 mgs at 8a.m. and another 2mgs. at 5p.m. then after the first month I started getting wd's when I wake up? so I upped my dose to 3mgs in the morning and 4mgs at night, still wake up in wd's... why is this happening now when it didn't before. so now I want to cut down but everytime I attempt to cut down a little wd's set in. I have an extremely busy, can't EVER sit down with work, school, and kids. can someone give me a plan to have no withdrawls pls. I did it with norco along time ago. I was taking 5 a day and took me 6 months but one day I stopped and no withdrawal walah! im getting the feeling this is going to be alot longer and harder. any advice is appreciated, u guys r the experts at this! I have 100's of subs so I won't run out to taper just need to know how, oh and I don't have a sub doc so there's no asking them. I also take xanax, ambien, neurontin, baclofen, bp med, and reglan... don't know if my meds are interfering with me cutting down the sub either, ty :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:47 pm 
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Just a thought here but, maybe it's not withdrawals you are getting in the morning. Maybe you are just achy when you wake up. If you are taking it before you go to bed I wouldn't think you would already be feeling withdrawals upon waking up. I'm not sure how old you are, but I'm only 27 and I'm pretty sore for about 45 minutes when I wake up in the morning. Normal aches and pains could be confused with withdrawal symptoms.

I would suggest waiting for a couple hours in the morning before dosing. If your "withdrawals" go away then you know it's just normal aches. Then you may have an easier time tapering your dose.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:51 pm 
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hello
well I really want to tell you,,, I think Every single person's "habit" or addiction is very different, and so their recovery is very different, Obviously every person's taper plan will/is/should be different....

but,,,, there are quite a few threads around here, where people DID do it, with little to no withdrawls,, it just takes a TON of patience and dillegence and EFFORT...... a whole LOT OF THAT.
dedication, too.

so here are some of my favorites.......
Hope this helps some

if you have any more questions just ASK!!!!


Liquid Taper Method (many, many people have used this one)
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=296


Success,,, taper off suboxone with the hole puncher method
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7449


another taper down by MG113
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3 ... sc&start=0


here's what we call,,, "high jump" stories.... or going off with little to no taper

cold turkey quit, no taper
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7938

jumped without a parachute
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5965

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:59 pm 
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hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:13 pm 
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sqeaky clean I took ur advice I thought about what u said about waking up with aches... it got me thinking maybe I was confusing my fibro ( im also 27) with withdrawls in the morning because that is the worst time. so I took 2-3 mgs yesterday ( I never know what mg im exactly taking whichis a problem cause I take the strips) I woke up at 8 and waited until noon and couldn't stand it no longer I took 1 mg and I feel back to normal. I just don't think I know what the hell im doing. I take different amounts at different times, I know I need to take it at certain times with the right dosage. Amber I read the threads on tapering ty, the liquefied method seems easier for me but I didn't catch if u can do that with the strips, mine r 8 mgs. any further advice?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Hi Mal,

You need to get on a stable dose before you start tapering. Wherever you feel comfortable is a good place to start. You can get pretty accurate doses with the strips if you fold them in half before you cut them. So if you fold it in half and cut then you have 4mg. In half again would be 2mg, and in half again would be 1mg. Find where you feel comfortable, maybe at 3 or 4mg for at least a week and then start dropping by about 25% each time, taking a couple weeks in between drops to stableize again.

If it helps, I can tell you the doses I tapered from. I went from 8mg down to 6mg. Then 4mg, 3mg, 2mg, 1.75mg, 1.5mg, 1.25mg, 1mg, .75mg, .5mg, .375mg, and now down to .25mg.

You can usually get down to 2mg pretty easily and then start slowing it down as you drop below the 2mg mark. It takes time, and patience, but it can be done. The key is to allow yourself to get stable at each dose before you drop again. Once you get down below 2mg it's easier to use the 2mg strips. There are lots of people who have tapered using 8mg strips, it just gets harder to get accurate doses when you're cutting them so small. My doctor switched me over to the 2mg's when I dropped below 4mg just to make it easier.


HTH,

Q


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:29 pm 
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One thing I experienced during my Suboxone career is that when I'd over do it and take too much, I'd feel crappy. Very similar feeling to withdrawals. Anxious, clammy, achy. I remember googling the reason for this and I found all sorts of ideas. Some people claimed that the Naloxone or Bupe would start working against itself if you over did it too much. I'm sure they were just talking about the ceiling effect but it made me feel better to know that I wasn't the only one who actually felt like I was in mild w/ds when I took too much sub. This started happening to me in 2007/2008.

That's when I realized my own "less is more" theory and started taking less. I was careful not to over do it from that point on and knew that reaching for more suboxone wasn't the answer for me. When I was on a lower dose, that didn't happen. Go figure..

I agree with Qhorse, you need to find a stable, appropriate dose and even out for a while before you can even start tapering.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:53 pm 
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malsmith- there is a thread where the poster used the strips to do the liquid tapet. The dudes screen name is southjaxbeach....cant think of the title


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:37 pm 
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it seems like ANY dose of sub I take now makes me feel crappy. I wasn't like this before on it. now I have been taking 2mgs a day in the morning and thats it. if I try to take just a 1mg I get tons of anxiety and im clammy... gross. at 2 mgs I still feel crappy, so I guess it doesn't matter. Tiny dancer ty... tthat's exactly how I feel when I take too much sub. I felt like nobody knew what I was talking about. qhorsegal I will be trying ur taper method, ty for the dosing. this is stupid but may help me understand more ( remember I don't have a doc to confide in) what is the ceiling effect of suboxone mean?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:26 pm 
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The "ceiling effect" you are referring to is generally around 4-6mg (I think). It's the amount of bupe you need to fully saturate your opiate receptors. Once you reach the ceiling level you will feel full relief of your withdrawal symptoms for at least 24 hours, and it won't do you any good to take more. Unlike other opiates, when you keep taking more you continually feel increased effects. Any dose above the ceiling level are not used by your body, so it is essentially a waste of good medicine to take more than that. I have heard some mention that the excess bupe is stacked in your system, but you won't feel any extra buzz or relief of symptoms from the extra.

Have you tried taking 2mg in the morning and then another 2mg at night? If you can do that it will put you at or very close to the ceiling level and may give you some relief of these up and down feelings. One of the greatest benefits of suboxone is being able to dose once or twice a day and feeling very level in between doses. As I said before, you need to find a dose that takes away your wd's but doesn't make you feel like you have taken too much. Stay on that dose for at least a week, I would go two or three weeks, before you start trying to taper. I really think one of the reasons you're having so much trouble is because you're still in the mindset of trying to take these as you would your Norco's. This medicine takes a few days at a steady dose to build in your system and give you full effect. But you really need to get settled on the same dose every day for awhile before you try to make any adjustments.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:19 pm 
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thank you for explaining that, I have felt sick after taking too much, and for me thats 3 1/2-4 mgs. ive been fine, but I also went off my xanax (sp?) for the first time and im a stranger to wd's... I barely felt anything from switching from norco to sub, but trying to quit the sub this month was horrible so here I am. I am used to patience, just thought maybe I made a mistake going on the subs instead of tapering the norco as I did in the past. I didn't know how powerful sub was till I tried to jump from 2 mgs. my boyfriend thinks im going through benzo wd's... I don't know anymore wtf my body is fighting but im tired.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:46 pm 
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You just quit Xanax? You should have lead with that bit of info because that's probably the cause of most of what you're going through. You coul
I'm willing to bet you've also been over doing suboxone as well. I'd stick with the 2mgs and ride it out a bit. When exactly did you take your last Xanax?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:57 pm 
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yes it ended up being xanax wd's I just never experienced them. im back on them, so the seizures I was having went away now. my doc said she didnt notice I was taking four .05 xanax a day when she switched me to 0.25 klonopin once a day. im stabilized on that issue, but the sub is not right. ive been taking now 2 mgs twice a day, and feel horrible in between doses. I don't wanna take anymore than that amount... im trying to quit with little to no withdrawls. I would go through wd's but I am on the move constantly from 6a.m. to 8p.m. then up and down all night (I have a baby). I hear alot of people say they don't understand why someone who was on 5-6 norcos a day would go on subs, well it was either take the norco and continue to probably up my dose and kill my body or switch to subs, so I don't agree with that argument. subs have reduced my pain (theres lots new studies shown it works for certain conditions) my pain is manageable now but I just want off.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:57 pm 
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yes it ended up being xanax wd's I just never experienced them. im back on them, so the seizures I was having went away now. my doc said she didnt notice I was taking four .05 xanax a day when she switched me to 0.25 klonopin once a day. im stabilized on that issue, but the sub is not right. ive been taking now 2 mgs twice a day, and feel horrible in between doses. I don't wanna take anymore than that amount... im trying to quit with little to no withdrawls. I would go through wd's but I am on the move constantly from 6a.m. to 8p.m. then up and down all night (I have a baby). I hear alot of people say they don't understand why someone who was on 5-6 norcos a day would go on subs, well it was either take the norco and continue to probably up my dose and kill my body or switch to subs, so I don't agree with that argument. subs have reduced my pain (theres lots new studies shown it works for certain conditions) my pain is manageable now but I just want off.


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