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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:05 pm 
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Hello everybody. I am from Wales in the UK currently living in London.. Only recently I have been searching about subutex or suboxone and weaning. I read so many conflicting stories about long term brain damage (guy on youtube made a video about it-dont know if hes right) and how these PAWS are just too much for people. Now my current situation is that I am on 1mg. I started at 8mg in January 2006, raised my dose to 12 for 1 year, then back to 8mg, stayed there until March 2009 when I started to wean down. I went pretty slowly where I cut by 2mgs every month. I reached 1mg in the Summer of 2010, since then I have been dosing between 2mg and 0.8mg, but am stable on 1mg now, looking to go down to 0.8mg by March, then wean by 0.2 every 2 weeks.

My first question is cutting down by 0.2 every 2 weeks long enough or do I need more time? I was hoping my mid July I would be off subutex. Now I have read somewhere you need to let your brain adjust to low doses since I have been taking subutex for 7 years, and that means spending time on each low dose for a while, this is to let your receptors open up to each dose and get use to new feelings and everything.

Is it true more sub comes out of the body when you stop then when you take it where it accumulates slowly? for instance I was to quit sub for 8 days would a lot of sub come out of my system?

Is there possibility of long term damage after 7 years use? I want to add that I am not having issues of memory or clumsiness, I work out a lot and that helps my day getting by.

Considering I have been on low doses for the past 4 years does this help my cause in the sense of cutting down on any permanent damage and withdrawals and PAWS?

Can I ask anybody when they started to feel clear from this brain fog when they were tapering down? I don't feel too different on 1mg then when I was 3mg. If I continue to taper further down would I start to feel emotional? reality? my old self etc? am worried since I have been on sub for 7 years it may have killed some of my receptors to the extent of not feeling natural emotions, I genuinely believed by now I would feel some sense of clarity.. Having said all this I do work out especially in the Summers and I don't believe am having any side affects other then being somewhat foggy. But I want to be off and am ready, I want to feel sober and want to do this comfortably as possible with your help.

Thankyou for taking the time to read my post.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:24 pm 
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Please don't worry about brain damage or any permanent damage for that matter. I also started my sub maintenance in 2006 and I've been off for 6 months and generally feel good. I've had to deal with some issues here and there but nothing that is too much to bear. I think you're one step ahead of me in that your tapering plan sounds much better than mine ever was. I think you'll have a much easier time if you can slowly wean down to even at least .5 mgs. My husband who was on lower doses throughout his maintenance basically walked off suboxone with very little symptoms at all. He weaned down to about .2 mgs.

Fear is worse than the actual tapering and jumping. Don't let the fear consume you.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:23 pm 
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Thanks for your response Tinydancer. So you think in your opinion that a taper consisting of 0.2 every 2 weeks will suffice? I thought I may had needed longer in order to let my receptors feel some mental withdrawals and adjust. Can I ask how you tapered off and what was your highest dose? when did you start to feel clear?

What about rapid detox when you on a low dose such as 0.2? or isn't that worth it. Or even Ibogaine, which I too have read conflicting reports about in conjunction with sub and its withdrawals.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:28 pm 
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Hi icaras,

I have been tapering for a bit over a year now. I've tried going fast and tried going slow. I have set dates and thrown them away. I honestly feel that for me, I do best when I stay at a given dose for 1-2 months since I got to about .5mg. I even went .375 a few weeks and .25 for a month or more and went back up to .5 because I had trouble sleeping. At that time I was in a rush (2 weeks per dose average) but my new philosophy is to take as long as I need at each dose and right now that feels good at a month minimum, 2 months ideally but I listen to my body and mind, if I'm ready I will try a drop. I am alternating .375 and .5 every other day currently.

I find it best to look at it as a long game. Once I stabilize at a new dose I like to chill out there and live comfy for a while.

My old addiction specialist and sub doc gave me great advice to not set dates and if I do and don't make it, not to beat myself up. Getting opiate free is tough. One way or the other, we have to pay for our past choices and a actions.

Btw, I was at 8mg for just under 3 years and tapering for just over a year after that. Getting down to 1.5 mg was easy for me, I did 2 weeks per drop and got there in a few months. Also I feel it very important after that to split your dose in 2 or 3 times per day. It wears off much faster at low doses. Dr. Junig wrote a cool article on his blog about it.

You have been on much longer, I really would give more than 2 weeks if it were me. U are doing great and should feel pretty damn good about it!


-glen b


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:32 pm 
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When you do jump try and get you dr. To prescribe clonidine. It's a blood pressure med that calms the sympathetic nervous system. It is prescribed off label for opioid withdrawal. (I'm no expert, I learned of it here)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:03 pm 
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Icaras wrote:
Thanks for your response Tinydancer. So you think in your opinion that a taper consisting of 0.2 every 2 weeks will suffice? I thought I may had needed longer in order to let my receptors feel some mental withdrawals and adjust. Can I ask how you tapered off and what was your highest dose? when did you start to feel clear?

What about rapid detox when you on a low dose such as 0.2? or isn't that worth it. Or even Ibogaine, which I too have read conflicting reports about in conjunction with sub and its withdrawals.


I cannot comment on your taper plan because I was all over the place with mine. My tapering was messy and in the end I basically jumped at 1.5 (although I had one last day at only .5).. I think Glen Bee is right in that you need to stabilize and feel comfortable at a certain dose before you should lower. I was on 24 mgs for my first year, 16 mgs for about 3.5 years and then the last year.. year and a half.. I got down to 1.5mgs. My very last day of dosing, I just took .5 mgs and that was it. My tapering from 16 to 1.5 was up and down, drastic and then stagnant. I can barely remember how I did it. I'm sorry I can't be of more help.

My husband who was on a similar dose that you were on, gradually lowered his dose about once a month for the last year. He went from 1mg to .20mg, I believe, over the course of that year. He had a pretty easy time getting off sub. He lost a little energy the first month and had a little trouble sleeping but that was it. I hope it's as easy for you but even if it's not, I can assure you it won't be as bad as you're expecting it to be.

I would not recommend rapid detox in your situation. It's just not worth it.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:38 am 
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He tapered for 1 year? am glad he's off and feeling well, gives me hope too. My problem is that am getting back into work and I don't want to be in pshycal or mental withdrawals for too long while I work, I've already been out of work for long as it is because of being on subutex for so long.

Another issue am concerned about is that by now I would have thought I would be feeling some mental withdrawals? where you wake up and and your emotional? I feel the pshycal affects but not mental like I use to 3 years back...Back then whenever I went a long time without a dose or woke up early then usual I would feel like some sort of clarity, some blurry visions, this use to tell me my receptors haven't been filled up by bup yet, but now I hardly seem to get that, this worries me somewhat. Its like bup is my normality, I want to feel hope in my head that the bup is clearing, like am stuck in a hole, it feels this is m sobriety, feels this foggyness is normality, when it shouldn't be, I hope you guys understand what am saying here? I can feel as though the sub is stuck in my brain and its trying hard to stick to it..

Perhaps when I go lower I feel feel mental symptoms? then at least I would know the bup is leaving my receptors right? I think this is why people have PAWS for so long because the bup is stick to the brain..I thought a slow wean will make the bup let go of those receptors and cut down on PAWS. The more I research the more am kind of understanding the issue of PAWS and bup.

What if someone was on bup 0.3 or 0.4 for 3 years? they would feel the same as someone on 6mg for 3 years right? so if they tapered down which would probably be 3 months they would still get PAWS right? because of the half life and the duration they were on bup.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:03 am 
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Hello Fellow buper,


You are asking some good questions, and I see that there have been some good answers,. listen to Glen bee.

Just taper, based on how you feel, not some spreadsheet or plan.
As glen bee said, just do it as you feel.
I went at my own pace, and went from 5 years @ 10mg to .04 mg over a taering period of 2.5 years.
I made guides, and plans on paper, for the tapering, but invariably, they were never used.


I gave my self 12 months to go from 1 mg to .04mg.
I would use sleep, and how I felt, as indicators when to drop.
I also used my symptoms, as a guide, like RLS, etc.

I agree that there are not too many mental issues, and stopping this drug, is 10000% easier, than you fear.

Just know, you'll have a few months of bad sleep, and a few minor pains.

I would keep tapering, as you have said, and go low, my friend, the lower you go, the less wd u get.
It cannot be put in simpler terms.

At your dose, I went like .2mg every month, or if i felt a bit rough, I would stay an extra month, on that dose.


Please trust me, that whilst tapering, you recptors are still full of opiates.
even though we think we should feel bad , when tapering, in actualy fact, at the right reduction, you feel, jst as good , as you do, on a stable dose.

You body/brain, is just not that clever to detect differences, in small amounts,

.2 mg per month, and if you get issues, just hold an extra month.
Go to under .1, and you will be laughing, all the way to freedoms shore.


Hopespring

Here is my Journey
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7766

And here is my recovery

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7984&start=25


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:36 pm 
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hopespring wrote:
Hello Fellow buper,


You are asking some good questions, and I see that there have been some good answers,. listen to Glen bee.

Just taper, based on how you feel, not some spreadsheet or plan.
As glen bee said, just do it as you feel.
I went at my own pace, and went from 5 years @ 10mg to .04 mg over a taering period of 2.5 years.
I made guides, and plans on paper, for the tapering, but invariably, they were never used.


I gave my self 12 months to go from 1 mg to .04mg.
I would use sleep, and how I felt, as indicators when to drop.
I also used my symptoms, as a guide, like RLS, etc.

I agree that there are not too many mental issues, and stopping this drug, is 10000% easier, than you fear.

Just know, you'll have a few months of bad sleep, and a few minor pains.

I would keep tapering, as you have said, and go low, my friend, the lower you go, the less wd u get.
It cannot be put in simpler terms.

At your dose, I went like .2mg every month, or if i felt a bit rough, I would stay an extra month, on that dose.


Please trust me, that whilst tapering, you recptors are still full of opiates.
even though we think we should feel bad , when tapering, in actualy fact, at the right reduction, you feel, jst as good , as you do, on a stable dose.

You body/brain, is just not that clever to detect differences, in small amounts,

.2 mg per month, and if you get issues, just hold an extra month.
Go to under .1, and you will be laughing, all the way to freedoms shore.


Hopespring

Here is my Journey
http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7766

And here is my recovery

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=7984&start=25
]]

Hey there Hopes, I do appreciate your input thank you.

By advising to go 0.2 a month isn't that simply accumulating the bup? I was hoping to be off by August at the latest so I don't have to detox in the Winter and so I can at least work for a considerable amount if time. Mind you I have not felt too bad tapering since I started few years back. I am only feeling some pshycal symptoms now as I went off bup for about 12 days due to running out of supplies, during that time I took codeine, but I had to take loads in order to feel semi decent.. When I did eventually get some more bup I tried to go back on the same dose that I left (1mg) but could not stabilize properly, it was not agonizing but a menace, now 6 days later I feel as though Ive stabilized on 1.8mg, but I will go down to 1mg by next week hopefully and continue.

Can I ask is it possible to use 6-7 months to taper from here on in to 0 rather then a year?

does exercise speed up the tapering process? because I do a lot of sports during the Summer, hence why I think tapering during this phase and jumping in late summer may be the best option for me.

Can I ask if taking a Naltrexone tablet at the end of my taper may flush out the bup quicker? perhaps take half of a naltrexone tablet or even less? am not saying I want to do this but just trying to get people's opinions on this.. There is one person who took 50mg Naltrexone tablet and claimed he flushed out the bup, thought he went through an agonizing 18 hours of withdrawals, so am wondering would it be possible to use some Naltrexone at the end of a taper if it means speeding up recovery? it's sort of "do it at home-rapid detox"


I also read some posts of a user here called Laddertipper. I must say am a bit concerned because she weaned down very low and slow and then relapse about a year later on alcohol and was asking for antidepressant suggestions here? could this be related to the PAWS she was having prior?

thank you again for taking your time to read my concerns.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Icaras wrote:

By advising to go 0.2 a month isn't that simply accumulating the bup? I was hoping to be off by August at the latest so I don't have to detox in the Winter and so I can at least work for a considerable amount if time. Mind you I have not felt too bad tapering since I started few years back. I am only feeling some pshycal symptoms now as I went off bup for about 12 days due to running out of supplies, during that time I took codeine, but I had to take loads in order to feel semi decent.. When I did eventually get some more bup I tried to go back on the same dose that I left (1mg) but could not stabilize properly, it was not agonizing but a menace, now 6 days later I feel as though Ive stabilized on 1.8mg, but I will go down to 1mg by next week hopefully and continue.

Can I ask is it possible to use 6-7 months to taper from here on in to 0 rather then a year?

does exercise speed up the tapering process? because I do a lot of sports during the Summer, hence why I think tapering during this phase and jumping in late summer may be the best option for me.

Can I ask if taking a Naltrexone tablet at the end of my taper may flush out the bup quicker? perhaps take half of a naltrexone tablet or even less? am not saying I want to do this but just trying to get people's opinions on this.. There is one person who took 50mg Naltrexone tablet and claimed he flushed out the bup, thought he went through an agonizing 18 hours of withdrawals, so am wondering would it be possible to use some Naltrexone at the end of a taper if it means speeding up recovery? it's sort of "do it at home-rapid detox"


I also read some posts of a user here called Laddertipper. I must say am a bit concerned because she weaned down very low and slow and then relapse about a year later on alcohol and was asking for antidepressant suggestions here? could this be related to the PAWS she was having prior?

thank you again for taking your time to read my concerns.


Hi Icar,

The 0.2mg per month, I believe Is just a suggestion to get off with minimal pain. The faster you go, the more you're going to feel. There are really no shortcuts here. You can go faster, you're just going to feel it more (most likely).

As far as naltrexone, I'm not sure but yeah, likely going to throw you in w/d so bad I wouldn't trust myself to stay clean or not try to "get relief" any way i could..

I know there are people here in touch with Laddertipper but from her posts, she had long passed any PAWS. She was not an opiate addict prior to her years on sub like most of us. Her drug of choice was alcohol. IMO a relapse like that has to do with our recovery plan. In other words, getting off sub, although tough and a big feat in itself is not the the hard part. The hard part is staying sober and substance free 1 year, 5 years, 10 years down the line. Not trying to speak for her, just my opinion...

good luck,

gb


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:50 pm 
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Hi Again,


You should go as fast as you can handle, and if you go too fast, just ease it up.

Anything is possible, just use how you feel as a guide to tapering.

HS

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Hopesprings suggestions are very similar to what my husband did, like I mentioned above. That was taking it easy for him so if you prefer to move it along a little faster and are in that mindset, you can do it.

I forgot to tell you the other day.. I LOVE your screen name.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:16 pm 
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You know it's not so much the pshycal part for me but mental part, I figure weaning slow was also mentally adjusting to each reduction and making your brain feel more in tune to clarity. If I go fast and handle the pshycal part I also want to be sure my mind is also adapting too so when I jump I won't have regrets, I don't want to be on PAWS and depression down the line. Mentally I could be fine tapering but come jump time and 2 months down the road I may hit PAWS. and then tell myself what if I had gone slower? you just can't tell really. I will let my brain feel much of clarity as possible before I jump, I believe that by getting some emotions during the wean will more or less rid much of the symptoms out before I jump.

I believe pshycal and mental recovery times are different to eachother, I think PAWS is mainly the results of the brain adapting to life without bup, so I just want my brain adapted to low dose bup (clarity, emotions, feelings etc) for long as possible and much as possible before I jump off. Like I said the psychical issue I can just perhaps deal with, but not sure when I will know when to reduce further even if I am psychically doing well, I want my brain to get use to each reduction too but just don't know how I will know that.

About the member of Laddertipper I realised she was not on any opiates but isn't PAWS totally different from bup then other opiates mainly short acting ones? I understand the concept of everybody is different but when someone has PAWS down the line and is depressed after a low wean it does make you wonder, of whether the 32mg she was on earlier in her treatment had any bearing and the thought that the sub may have still been lingering a year out or the receptors did not recover from the years of bup use a year out.

About the naltrexone I was asking if a small dose would suffice at the end? to speed up the bup out of the receptors quickly and if that would be beneficial.

And what about Ibogaine? I was thinking if I don't feel too great a month after my jump I may go that route or even take small doses of Iboga to combat the withdrawals and PAWS...I just can't be in mental withdrawals for too long just like what nany people feel after quitting sub.


@tiny thanks for the compliment in regards to my name (if you was referring to me). Am sure it's spelt Icarus though lol


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:49 pm 
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This article is pretty awesome: http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com/withdra ... -suboxone/ I was looking for something on the STZ blog and thought of this thread.

Also, I tried to dig it up but there is a great post on the forum somewhere by diary of a quitter that talks about how when we taper, our receptors have a chance to re adjust with smaller and smaller amounts of bupe on our receptors the slower we go, minimizing w/d & PAWS. It's simple but she really nailed it.

There has been much debate about "bupe PAWS" vs "full agonist PAWS" etc but it's tough. Nobody really tapers off of short acting opioids, it's too hard and also not very many actually last even close to 8 months or a year after cold turkey from short acting opioids and I would wager that many times the start of PAWS from short acting opioids coincides with relapse.

I'm sure you have read that ibogaine and suboxone doesn't work very well. I think most places have you switch to a short acting agonist which to me sounds pretty scary... :/. I think ibogaine is pretty interesting and wish it was legal in the US and elsewhere though...

Gb


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:41 pm 
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The physical and mental aspect also go hand in hand. For me, part of the biggest mental hurdle was adapting to feeling physically crappy for such a long stretch. I was never violently sick but truth be told, I felt physically unwell for at least 4 months. In the beginning, I was motivated and excited to jump so even though w/ds were more intense at that time, I was also pleasantly surprised that my symptoms weren't worse. Months 2-4 were the hardest for me mentally because I was SO tired and fed up of feeling sluggish and sweaty and generally subpar.

I did not taper that well so I am sure my symptoms will not be the same for you but I'm telling you this so you don't write off mental and physical as being completely separate entities. They can and will go hand in hand.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Thanks for your response guys, do appreciate this.

@Tinydancer I understand pshycal and mental symptoms can go hand in hand but once the pshycal symptoms dissapear you have to deal with the mental ones i.e depression, anxiety, boredom etc, that was always my issue. The pshycal symptoms I use to have were sweats, restless legs and arms, insomnia, body pains etc, I could handle this truly but it's the mental part after the pshycal symptoms vanished I use to struggle with, thats why I suggest the psychical; and mental parts vary to each other, depending on the opiate too, in this case bup which I have read and heard from so many people that the mental issue is the long drawn out problem, which they say is PAWS.

Can I ask everybody if its true a short acting opiate cuts out withdrawal and PAWs time from bup? I read on another forum where someone said if you take a shorter acting opiate for 2 months it cuts down on sub withdrawals and PAWS dramatically, is there evidence for this? if so how does it exactly work? I always assumed a short acting opiate only kept you have decent enough while in sub withdrawals but did not know it cuts out the duration of bup withdrawals and PAWs..


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:56 pm 
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About Ibogaine I have read various protocols in using this treatment to get off sub. Some people say it worked even using Iboga directly from bup yet others say their PAWs symptoms returned or were still there a month and over out, don't know if everybody is truthful in this area. I am caught in 2 minds now, whether I should do Ibogaine directly from 0.2 when I get there, or wait 2 or 3 months after quitting sub to do Ibogaine, am not suggesting I will definitely go this route but am only making preparations and looking for other options. If something such as Iboga can cut out symptoms and PAWS dramatically or even by half then isn't it worth to research into it? there isn't any concrete information about this and sub, like I said some people claim success yet others don't.

Does anybody think if it's a good idea to take low doses of Ibogaine such as boosters after quitting bup for a month or 2 to help with PAWS? or even take low doses during the withdrawal phase.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:02 pm 
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I personally don't think there are any short cuts to cutting down on wds or paws. I think this is going to happen regardless of what you take to ease the symptoms. It all just depends on how your body adjusts to the taper and lack of drugs/ meds which is completely different for everyone. In my honest and humble opinion the things that are going to help you get through this the best are all natural and all free. Sunshine, exercise, water, nutrition... and music.

That is my story and I'm sticking to it =)


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So I've been hunting around these sites to offer kind words of compassion and to share my stories. Honestly, I've tried to quit suboxone like 6x in the past. Always jumping from around 2 mg. It was hell every time and the most i lasted was 12 days. The last time i tried to detox. i actually talked to my doctor about it {in my opinion she is just a drug pusher, not really knowing what she is doing}. She prescribed me adipex, ativan .5mg, and ambien. I had so much anxiety during the acute withdrawal stages that I was afraid of taking the upper, thinking it would just elevate my anxiety. Anyway, it didn't work that time, I didn't get off the couch for 12 days, and went through hell in my mind, even with the ativan. That was 8 months ago. Since I went back on subs, i took 4 mg's for a solid 4 months.. Tapered down 1 mg every other month until I was at 1 mg. then 2 months at .5 mg. My doctor noticed I wasn't on her list anymore and cut me off, so I had 14 2mg strips to work with. I took .5 mg for another month, then took it down to .25 mg for a month. I stopped for a day, took .25 mg, repeated a few times. then I went to .125 mg every 3rd day 3x, then stopped. My main problems were extreme lethargy and anxiety. I get a few muscle cramps and sleep disturbances. So i was already taking adderrall for my ADHD 15mg once a day. She doubled it. 15mg 2x a day. She gave me 5 mg valium 2x a day. A week into w/d i'm in hell, still lethargic and anxious. She doubled both doses again, 60 mg adderrall a day total, and 20 mg valium a day. I also took clonodine for the first 2 weeks which really helped. Compared to the other detoxes I attempted, this one was a cakewalk. I don't think i would of made it without the adderrall and valium, and maybe not without the clonodine or ambien. I actually think that adderrall speeds up the metabolization process of suboxone. it might make the 24-72 hour half life more like 24 hours. Anyways, 2 months on the regimen of adderrall and valium, and I am starting to notice my energy coming back a little, and the anxiety going down. I was taking 15 mg of adderrall every 4 hours, which is crazy for me to even fathom, but my body was just that lethargic. So like I said it's been about a month and a half clean from subs, and although I'm not even close to being normal, it's getting better every day. I have moments where I can feel intimate with my wife again, which i had zero interest in for the first 30 days. I dont know where I am going from here, or what normal even feels like, [been on opiates from age 14-28] Half my life,..... damn. I just don't want you or anyone else to underestimate PAW from long term Bup use. I had been taking this shit longer than anyone that I or my doctor has ever seen. I was one of the original patients. If the drug has a half life of 72 hours, yet you take it every 24 hours, and then you take it for 9 years, it may be in your system for 18 years? Right? Not sure about that. Also during this detox I got a job doing snow removal where I am on call all the time and often have to work long hours and get no sleep. Staying overly active helped a lot too. You don't sit there and stew in your baggage, and honestly while I was working physically, I didn't even notice I was going through W/D or PAW. When i got home from a long shift I actually felt generally happy. Getting endorphins going is no joke. On my days off, without somethng that i HAVE to do, I am still lethargic and have anxiety, but still getting better daily. i know i am renowned for long rambling messages, this being no exception. All I can say is use whatever tools you have to get off and stay off. Even though I have been clean for so long now, I am going for an injection that blocks opiates and alleviates cravings{which i don't really have, I even flushed 2 mg of sub and 4 T3s i've been saving for W/D down the toilet in a majestic symbolic flush}. I've tried many many times to stop... This was the only way that worked for me, it may not for you, but just something to think about.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Thanks for your story, sorry that you had to stay on sub for so long. Not sure about the half life staying in the system for 18 years? the lower you go the less half life there is right? the low doses become like short acting opiates apparently.

I don't think I can get Addreall here in the UK, but I do have valium and clonidine, though they are expired but am sure they are still usable.

Can I ask anybody if its ok to take naltrexone towards the end of a taper?

is there anything that helps acute withdrawals and PAWS?

Is it true a shorting acting opiate cuts down PAWS and withdrawal time from bup? if so how does this work?


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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