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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:00 pm 
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Free bird, I am SO sorry things turned out this way. I know how jazzed you were to start your recovery. I really feel for you. Which leaves me wondering how you're doing now. Regardless of what happens and what you decide, please keep us posted on your progress.

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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:37 pm 
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I'm feeling very defeated right now. I called another sub doc and they said the same thing - that methadone would be a better route for me. They said that the pain patients that have tried sub have all switched over to methadone treatment because the sub would not provide adequate pain relief. Looks like I have two choices, stay on oxy which is not an option to me or go on methadone which I'm really not happy about but is the lesser of the evils - or is it? Hmm, this sucks. I am still going to pursue the aftercare no matter what and try to keep the methadone pill dosage at a minimum. I'm going to stress this with him. I do NOT want to be on a really high dose and be like a frickin zombie like I've seem some people on methadone. I want to be able to FEEL not be in a stupor. I wish he would at least let me try suboxone and if it didn't work out fine then I'd try methadone but to not even be able to give sub a shot is unfair.

Well I'll update tommorow and let you guys know how it goes. Thanks so much for your support. It really helped me so much.


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:48 pm 
Freebird I'm so sorry for your disappointment. The one thing I can think of to say on a positive note is that I have a friend who decided to switch from Sub to methadone. She only doses once a day (so she's not on the pill popping roller coaster) and she is doing very well on it. I really don't know much about methadone myself, but you can do more research on it if it is your only option. I know several people on this forum have been on methadone. Maybe you can start a thread asking for advice/ experiences. Are you in Canada like Ginger? I wonder if finding another doc is an option. I wish you all the best. Keep posting and we'll keep supporting you.
Lilly


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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:34 pm 
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Hey freebird,

I'm sure you must be very disappointed right now. Let us know what is going on and what you are planning to do.

Keep writing and asking questions, we are still here to support you no matter what happens. Just keep in touch,
Ginger


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:10 am 
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Dr Junig I would really appreciate any advice right now. Do you happen to know of any sub doctors up here? I live in the York Region area not far from Toronto. I hate that this doctor pulled this on me and I would like to connect with a sub doctor who would at least let me try sub and if my pain level was really bad then I could always switch to methadone. I can't believe this doc wouldn't even let me try sub. I feel I've been duped to say the least. If you can help pls let me know, thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:18 pm 
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Hey free_bird -

I'm not Canadian - and can only speak about my experiences with doctors here in the states.

Our family has experience with Chronic Pain and methadone.

I hope I understand your situation with opiates:

Now: Oxycodone/Oxycontin for current pain relief
Future (your thoughts): Suboxone for both pain and opiate dependency
Future (your doc's thoughts): Methadone instead of Suboxone for pain control

If this is the case, and I were in your shoes (without another immediate doctor) - I would probably do the following (only my take/thinking)....

Go back to the doctor who is able to prescribe Suboxone but did NOT do it. Tell him that you completely understand the suboxone route - that it 'may not work' but that you feel that is your risk to try. Throw him a bone - that you understand that methadone may indeed be better for pain control - but you would like to try suboxone - just to see if it works. Tell him, if suboxone doesn't work - then you would gladly work with him on a Methadone route.

If he is so stubborn that he won't consider your request to take suboxone first, then I, PERSONALLY, would probably ask him for continued 'Oxy' for now.

Here is my thinking. Methadone (we have a long family history of that drug) - is also long acting. You can take more and more Methadone (as you may be doing with oxy) - and not hit a ceiling, etc. It's also MUCH HARDER to move from methadone to suboxone later. So, if you really, honestly, for reasons of your own - want to try suboxone, I would not yet step into the methadone arena.

If, though, you only have the option of methadone - it will probably help your base pain level. I would think of methadone as a one way ticket with your chronic pain. That is why trying suboxone is such a good idea. If suboxone is not adequate - then make the move to methadone. The reverse move is pretty hard.

There is a lot to say about methadone to suboxone. I personally think that you would be moved up past the 30-40mg of methadone for your pain. Once you are above that - then moving to suboxone is difficult. You would likely want to taper your methadone to around 30mg a day for a week - then move to oxy or another short acting drug - then wait another week - and then move to suboxone. It is not impossible, but it would be harder than trying suboxone initially. I hope this train of though makes sense.

If you are forced to stay on 'oxy' instead of moving to methadone, I'd do that while I searched for another suboxone doctor/clinic. You can always move to methadone.

I have NO idea if this helps or muddies the waters. No matter what you do, we are here to support you. Some doctors CAN be such a pain in the arse. It is sad that we have to talk common sense with some.

IT IS COMMON SENSE TO TRY SUBOXONE BEFORE MOVING TO METHADONE. YOU ARE NOT CRAZY OR WRONG :) :) :)

--LD


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:47 pm 
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First of all I am very sorry I am so late getting to this post. Second of all I am so VERY sorry that you have run into this devastating situation. I agree with the last post from LatheDude. What are you doing now to take care of the withdrawal? That is horrible for him to send you back home with nothing after everything you just went through. CRAZY! I don't have better advice except to try looking at www.suboxone-directory to see if there is a doctor in the US where you can go. I have to say....this is kind of scaring me away from the federal health care system a bit. There is no incentive for doctors to really research this in Canada or to give it a shot.

Please keep us posted. This definitely sucks!

Cherie


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:39 am 
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Hi all,

Well I started his methadone pills. I only took 2 yesterday. 1 10mg pill at 11 am and another around 6 pm. He has prescribed me three a day but I'm sticking at two if I can so if and when I do find a sub doc soon the transition won't be so hard. I hate to say it but he might be right about the sub not being better then the methadone for pain because even on the methadone right now my back is hurting me. I dunno. I guess I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place being a pain patient. On a positive note, today unlike any other day I did not wake up and snort and oxy to start my day. By now I would have probably snorted 2 oxys and I've done no oxy so thats the only good thing I can think of.

I feel a little spacey today but from what I've read this is supposedly normal when starting and should subside. It better, thats one of the reasons why I wanted sub - I wanted be normal and feel things..not be a numbed up zombie on methadone. But I think if I keep the dose down low at 20 mgs and go back and talk to my family doctor about this maybe he can help me. I hope so!!


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:09 am 
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Hi free bird. Again, I'm sorry things didn't work out as planned. I can hear in your words you are still disappointed.
I'm one of the people who are on suboxone for pain. Obviously we can't compare pain cuz it's different for everyone, but surprisingly, sub works pretty well for me. But I've never tried methadone.

I think you're smart to keep your dose low and keep your other options regarding sub open. No matter what you decide in the end, I'm so glad you're sticking around here. I hope this forum provides you with the same hope and support that it does for me. And you're right - at least you're not snorting today! This makes that a pretty damn good day.

Hang in there and keep on keeping us posted. We're here for you!!

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:25 pm 
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Thanks Hatmaker!! You made me smile. I guess i should focus on the positives right now like I'm not snorting oxys and the lightheadedness I felt earlier is gone. I do feel a little fidgety but am hanging on until 3 like im supposed to to take my next dose. I'm going to just keep busy and it does feel good to not be doing oxys. Normally right now I'd be in a total panic and running around buying pills I cant afford so there is some good coming from this methadone stuff.


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 1:17 pm 
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Hey free_bird -

Hang in there! It sounds like you are doing a reasonable plan. Hat's remarks are terrific, and I second the vote that it is good you are not snorting oxy's.

Doctor Junig is a proponent of moving toward once a day use of suboxone - with the goal of breaking our habits. It sounds like you are doing that with Methadone.

Fantastic!

--LD


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:33 pm 
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I just can't stop smiling--and no buzz--just feeling good that I am able to feel "ok" without my oxys. I'm sure I'll feel even better when I get stabilized. Right now my only gripe about it is feeling antsy an hour or so before my dose is due but once I'm stable in a few days that will go along with the light headedness I get at first. In fact it's already gone, it lasts for about an hour and then I feel just fine. Not high just normal and not craving like mad like I usually am. It's nice to be able to start living life normally and not be snorting lines of oxy all day long, running out and buying them and hating myself for spending money I don't have. What a relief to finally be free of those damned oxys!!


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 Post subject: Wow..
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:21 pm 
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Free_bird - Wow, I just browsed through this thread and read about the doctor that denied you... I was just stunned, I sat here staring at my laptop monitor like WOW. I was in shock! I just can't fathom a doctor sending you home in the condition you were in crying for help. That just blows my mind. I'm so happy you didn't choose to pick up the Oxys but rather chose Methadone. My drug of choice was also Oxycodone so I know that road, I too snorted them for awhile...It's not a good life.

By reading your last post it looks like you are beginning to sit back and realize the fight is over. Hopefully you can now continue to search in comfort with a clearer head and find a Suboxone doctor if that's what you choose. Either way, staying off the oxys is a much better decision. Congrats to you for breaking the cycle! SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 3:41 am 
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ThAnks Super,

Yeah I was pretty vexed at the doc, still am for putting me through that but as much as I hate to say it he might be right about the methadone being the better alternative. My back pain is improved and I don't feel high or zombie like I was afraid of, I just feel normal and have not done any Oxy today! Today was my first day clean from Oxys in a loooong time and I feel great. Your right I have escaped the vicious and deadly cycle of active addiction. Not chasing pills, not slowly killing myself and all that awful stuff that goes along with being a slave to pills. I can't believe how incredibly normal I feel!!


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:40 am 
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Hi free_bird,
I'm glad you are feeling better!!! I still can't believe the way you were treated by that DR.????? Maybe I'm just spoiled by my Dr. He kinda lets me go at my own pace... Anyways I"m happy to hear the you are no longer using the Oxy's. Oxycodone was also my POISON of Choice so I know from where you came!!!! You are in a much better place Now and hopefully you will be able to get on Suboxone sometime in the "Not So Distance Future"... Please keep us posted on your journey into Recovery and know that WE are all pulling for you..... Take Care!

God Bless
TW

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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:44 am 
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I am glad to hear you are doing well. I am also glad to hear that the methadone makes you feel normal. In terms of pain, I think it is difficult because when you first come off full agonists and onto any replacement, I think you feel more pain. But over time, your body adjusts and the medication works better to battle the pain. The concern I have with methadone is that you can still take other pain killers when you are on it so for me, you have to fight just a bit harder than on suboxone. So that would be the main benefit in my opinion. But methadone is better than oxy and it is always possible that for you it is better than sub. Right now, the important thing is getting stabilized and seeing how things go. I really hope you stick around here because the pink cloud fades and life gets a little harder. I hope you will let us support you through that. I hope you get to enjoy a second day without oxy :-)

Take care!
Cherie


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:40 am 
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[align=justify][code][/code]

Hi freebird,

I am so happy to hear that you are feeling okay and stable on methadone. I tried methadone once a few years ago, and the only thing you have to be very careful of is that doctors really want to keep increasing your dose. I think I could have had mine increased every week. With every little complaint about anything, that was always their answer, to increase the dose, so just be careful of that.

It really sounds like you have an awesome attitutude about methadone and know to keep the dose as low as possible. I'm happy to hear that you are no longer craving oxys. That is the biggest battle and the biggest bonus, not to be chasing that oxy dragon any more. I think oxycontin is the absolute worse, addictive pain med there is out there. Through my different illnesses and having cancer, I have taken many different kinds of opiates, and have been able to handle them and take them as prescribed, but when i discovered oxycontin, my hell began. I just could not get enough of them. Anyway, I really happy to hear that methadone is working for you.

I have also been looking for another sub doctor for you, in your area, but have not had any luck so far. Doctors in Canada certainly do not advertise the fact they prescribe sub. We also have no doctor matching system like they do in the states, so I am working on trying to get one.
I have been in contact with the company that makes Sub in Canada. I got a message back, just saying they would get back to me when my email is directed to the right person, whatever that means. So, will let you know how I make out.

Consider talking to your family doctor again. My doctor had not heard about sub either, but he knew how much I wanted it. It might be worth a try, he knows how much you wanted it.

Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help,

Ginger


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:42 am 
Hi freebird! I'll join with the others in expressing my sympathy for what you've had to go through. I can't even imagine how you felt after having gone into withdrawal and working yourself up to get started on Suboxone, only to have your hope dashed at the last minute!
While I don't fully understand your doctor's rationale, I guess at least I can give him credit for trying to help you get out of the cycle you were in with the oxycodone. I'm glad the methadone is working out okay so far. Like you had said....it beats the alternative! You absolutely had to do something different and now you have. No more putting stuff up your nose; no more running out early and buying on the streets, no more worrying about how quick and how hard the next episode of withdrawal is going to be, and on and on the list goes!
You know, although I don't have any first-hand experience with methadone, we all know that it's been around for many years and has helped many people break out of active addiction. You just have to know that because it's still an agonist, it will still carry some of the problems associated with other opiates.....tolerance, abuse potential, etc. You still are going to need to address all the issues that led to your addiction and any other underlying issues you may have going on. I know when I first got on Suboxone, I thought..."okay, I have found the answer.....it's all over now." Nothing could have been further from the truth. I still had (and still do) have to deal with my addiction from all the other angles. In other words, it's not just stopping the madness of the using or getting rid of the withdrawals. It's so much more than that. However, with medication-assisted recovery (bupe or methadone,) we are 'well' enough to start the work on the other things. At least that's how I see it.
So...good for you. You've taken a very positive step. Now, keep walking!! We're all here with you although most of us 'regulars' are on bupe and not methadone. We're all walking the same road....trying to get better and using medication to help us accomplish that. I hope today is a good day for you!


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:48 pm 
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Hey free_bird,

If you have a second, can you post a reply with how you are today? Like TW said, we are pulling for you!!

---LD


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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 10:38 pm 
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Hello everyone!

Sorry I haven't been on here, I have had two sick babies to care for. My son and daughter both have respiratoy infections going on and it's been hectic to say the least.

The good news is I am oxy free and have been since I started methadone on Wednesday. I feel great! I have no desire to do oxys and my pain is doing pretty good. I can't say I haven't thought about oxy but thinking about it and craving and doing it are two different things. I am also staying at 20 mgs a day. I take one 10mg tab in the morning and one at night. I feel so good about not chasing pills, snorting pills and basically just killing myself. I have hope now. Something I haven't had much of in a loooong time.

I realize that methadone, sub are not the "cure" for addiction. I plan on keeping an aftercare program going strong and working on ME. There are many reasons why I self medicated and those need to be addressed. The abuse I suffered as a child and many other things that happened until the final blow that really messed me up - losing my mom to this awful addiction when she was only 47. There is so much hurt inside me that I have numbed an tried to escape. But you can't run from yourself and now I need to turn and face my demons and deal with them in order to lay the past to rest and live for today and have hope for a bright future.

THANK YOU all so much, I hope you don't mind but I'd like to keep posting here. I was all set to go on sub until that damned doctor threw me for a loop but really, maybe he was right that the methadone was the best thing for me considering the pain issues. Chances are if I got onto sub and it did nothing for the pain I would become frustrated and go back to my old standby oxy. With the methadone I can feel normal, have a pain tolerable and be free from active oxy addiction. It's a dream come true really! But I know I have to be on guard because there will always be triggers - for example when I got home from a funeral today I had an urge - but thats as far as it got. I was able to put it out of my mind and go on with my day. My kids keep me very busy which is a good thing. Boredom has never been a good thing for me. You know the old saying idle hands...well lucky for me my hands are rarely idle, lol.

I will keep checking in regularly and for anyone reading this who is considering sub or another maintenence - if you've tried cold turkey, tapering and basically everything possible and are still struggling then give this a shot. It can really give you a chance at getting your life back together and breaking the vicious, awful cycle of active addiction. Choose life!!


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