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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:50 am 
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I am new here. I am male 57, not great with PC. I have had liver cancer and liver transplant. the transplant was feb 2009. I was taking 5 to 6 Percocet each day 5 mgs. I have been using sub since Jan 2011. I have lost 25 lbs and feel nauseous all the time. I cant seem to get below 12 mgs of sub. I get very nauseous, and do not eat which just seems to snowball untill I am sick all the time. I was down to 8 mgs a day for a week then sick again. I really dont know what to say, I am very confused with all of this. Had no Idea I had a problem till I started cutting some of the drugs out of my life, I am on many prescriptions due to the Transplant. My hope is to somehow use less and less sub, till I am off of it. I never was using in any social way at all, I had no idea I had a problem. Well, I just found this place , and wanted to say hello, hopefully I can find my way back again.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:59 am 
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Hello rain and welcome. I'm sure you'll find the forum very supportive and informative.

Maybe you could tell us more about the way in which you are trying to reduce your dose. How low are you trying to drop at one time? It's possible you're trying to drop too much at one time and that's what's causing you to feel the withdrawal symptoms. At 12 mg you can likely drop to 10 or even 8 without feeling any ill effects.

So if you're comfortable giving us more info, maybe we can help you out a bit more. Again, welcome!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:16 am 
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Hi, rain. I'm Christin. I come and go here on the forum. I'm back because I'm tapering (again!) and am down to .5 day (again!) and it's hard. I'm struggling with anxiety, agitation, and the typical lethargy and stomach issues.

I get ya when you talk about getting sick. As I said, I'm down to .5mg but was on 20mg a couple of years ago. Whenever I lowered my dose, I would get sick also. Even lowering from 16mg to 12mg got me sick. I know that it wasn't psychological because I would be certain that I was going to be fine that drop and then, WHAM, three or four days later, I had the diarrhea, nausea, aches, etc. A couple of times, it would yo-yo for more than a week.... sick for a couple of days, feel a bit better, sick again, etc. The anxiety is the worst, with the exception of cravings. It's the cravings that eventually get to me (though this time around, I've only craved once and got through it okay).

Please tell us more about yourself (as Hatmaker suggested). Even though I come and go here, I'm never met with anything but support. These guys are awesome (that's why I keep coming back). I'm not sure that there's a real comfortable way to come off Suboxone, at least for some of us. I will say that it's not as horrible as coming off oxy. Actually, for this addict tapering down a full agonist was impossible. I always ended up tapering back UP and then more.

Good luck! Keep posting. Perhaps, a little supports is the key that you need to be successful in tapering off or to find peace with staying on Suboxone.


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 Post subject: My 2¢ Worth
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:18 pm 
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Hi rain, and Welcome to the forum. I hope you get some much needed answers here.

One thing that may be causing you to feel ill is not the Buprenophrine, but the Naloxone additive. It sometimes causes nausea or other nasty symptoms. The Bup in Sub seems not to have many side effects that are too bad. I get really sleepy if I'm not busy doing something. Even on small doses.

So maybe talk to your doctor about Subutex. Same drug as Sub minus the Naloxone. It comes in generic form too so it may save some money.

That's all I can think of for now. Others may have opinions as well. I'm sorry to hear of your physical problems, it must be very difficult to adjust to the pain.

If I was you, I wouldn't even consider getting off the Sub if you are having that much withdrawal effects. You've been through so much already, you don't need more grief. Unless you really cannot stand the side effects and nothing else works, then a tapering schedule is in order. Try the Subutex first and see if that helps.

Take Care,

Tom


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 Post subject: staying at 12 mgs
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:25 pm 
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Well, I found my way back here to the site....I worked real hard on my diet, forcing myself to eat so I could function in a way that would not alarm my family....Last weekend was a reunion...
I am 57 years old. I have had severe liver disease which finally led me to cancer in the liver. I believe thats when I was introduced to Percocet. I was not really in a Ouch pain, but a sick all over feeling. The Percocet is what finally gave me some relief to a 24 hr a day sickness. Without our liver nothing is filtered, I was suffering from amonia build up in my body, and was so confused for awhile I was ready to give up. Then the cancer .. My liver formed a tumor very small but still it was cancer, this ended up being a good thing. (??) With the extra points for cancer on the Donor list I could be considered for transplant. They went into my Liver with a fiber optic tube of some sort and put chemo directly on the tumor. It worked. then I was into Stanford University Hosp. every few weeks to do all the tests to keep checking me for cancer. ( C T scans, ETC) After 9 months I was still cancer free. I received the call for the transplant which meant i was one of the luckiest men in Calif. The T X was successful and I started my long trip of healing. After a year I decided i wanted off of all drugs except the anti rejection drugs. That is how i found out I had a percocet problem . I thought I was going through rejection and would tell my DR.S but they said I was looking good. For the last year I have been trying to get off of opiates. My local DR. moved his practice so I spent the next 8 monts searching for a Dr. that would help with getting off of the percocet, but the Drs. I would meet just wanted to give me another prescription to the pain killer.
This last January 2011, I found a DR. in the rural town that I lived in. This was sort of a miracle for me since i had been searching out of the area for six months. I was started on two of the soboxone strips 8mgs each. I have to this day not been able to feel normal, (what ever that is, its been so long) I have never experienced Nausea like this before. I have lost 35 lbs. I do not ever fee like I want to eat, I sometimes feel the need to eat though. I believe that saboxone is making my stomach upset so I dont eat and then I cant eat cause my stomach rejects food at times.
I have been forcing myself to eat now. protein shakes in the morning with toast, yogurt, things that aren't spicy etc. Lots of fruit, since I have been doing this I have been slowly feeling better, at least better than horrible nausea every day.
What I am doing now is keeping track of every dose everyday, how I felt that day, how and what I eat everyday, and the overall wellness of each day. I have been taking 1/3 of a strip 4 times a day.
I do not know any one that is taking this drug but me. My Dr. seems to think that if i just take enough SUB to keep me above the invisible line , that I should not be sick , and we will lower it down accordingly to how I feel untill I am off SUB for good. I thought it was going to take me a few months and be off, but its been 6 months and I am still struggling with the dose.
Well, thats sort of my story , I feel for anyone who finds themselves in a position where something controls their life. I was alcoholic and still am, but I have not had a drink in over 17 years, and that was so different than this. I would love to have my life back. I got to tell ya after the liver disease (hepc) cirrhosis, cancer, all of the things I have gone through to get to this point. Including the fact that I was lucky enough to be given the gift of life from someone, I dont want to waste anymore of my life, and I want to feel as normal as possible. Thanks for listening , and I thank you for responding to my first post.

RAIN


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:37 pm 
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First I want to say I'm glad you're healthy! Secondly, your situation is pretty unique. You never abused any opiates, but were on them for so long that you became very dependent on them. Now you're on suboxone, but but the whole time you've been ill seemingly due to the suboxone. Am I correct with all this? And you're only taking about 8 mg per day? Well, I must admit, I'm at a bit of a loss. If you were on too high of a dose, you would have adjusted to it by now. The same goes if you were on too low of a dose. Unless you've made major changes to your dose very recently. I'm curious - what do your pupils look like? And has your doctor ruled out any physical illness that could be unrelated to the suboxone? For now I'm not having any great ideas to offer you. I'll check back in if I get any. I'm sure others with come along with their own insights. I really hope you feel better soon.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:19 pm 
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Thanks Hatmaker......

Yes, I am now....on 1/3 of a strip , 4 times a day... the strips are 8mgs each...

Yes, I became addicted to the perc, because I used it for I believe year and half, The percs were 5 - 325 mgs ? That is what is says on the bottle,( I still have a bunch of em here at the house....)

I became very Ill when I quit the perks, sweating, pit of my stomach nausea.

Since I have been on the SUB. I could not find the right dose to keep me from feeling Ill. Now I am taking the 1 and 1/3 strip a day. And eating as much as I can to get the correct amount of nutrition.

MY Pupils look fine. And I just had Lab work done and shows no signs of health probems....so i am pretty sure the reason I am sick is the soboxone...

When I read of people taking 1mg of SUB a day, I am amazed. I thought that a person would be able to quit that amount without W/D.

Lets see , hummm I am taking 11 mgs each day..... any less and I start to get the nauseated feeling.

IT makes me wonder about the amount I take when I read of others taking 1 or 2 mgs a day??


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:12 pm 
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Hi rain and welcome. I'm glad you made it through a successful liver transplant. Your situation is complicated because you are on other drugs and have been through a lot of health issues. One thing that does come to mind is that some people are sensitive to the naloxone in Sub, which is supposed to be inactive. Some people say that if they spit out their saliva 15-20 min after dosing, and thereby spitting out the naloxone instead of swallowing it, that it averts headaches, and maybe nausea, too. Most people seem to get nauseous on Suboxone if either they are on too HIGH of a dose, or are withdrawing, and you don't seem to be either. Could it be one of your anti rejection drugs? If you are pretty stable on 12mg and are eating OK maybe you shouldn't mess with success for a while.
Hope you continue to do well,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:33 pm 
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yesterday I started spitting out the saliva in my mouth after using the suboxone. maybe 15 to20 minutes after. It seems to help, also I have been forcing myself to eat. Protein drinks, bananas, toast and jelly, and a sandwich a half anyway, I was able to keep it all down. I am doing everything I can , my wife has been through hell with me, and I would be devastated if she could not take it anymore . Thank you for talking with me...


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