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 Post subject: Im trying it again
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:47 pm 
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I tried to go cold turkey once before and got to day 4 with ease. I take suboxone for chronic pain. When the pain goes away, I try to get off suboxone. So on day 4, I was curled up in bed, lacking the energy or motivation to get out of bed, although I had to do so in order to pee out of my ass liquid poop. Having diareah and abdominal pain was tolerable for me. What was NOT tolerable was how cold I became. No matter how much I turned up the heat, no matter how many blankets I put on me: I was freezing, all my limbs. I felt better in a hot bath but couldn't live in a tub. I felt like I was having allergies too. I took a xannex. It gave me a nap but did not do anything for what I later discovered was HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE (IMO, the worst detox symptom for me). The second worst symptom was lethargy. It felt like I was dying I was so weak. I took a little piece of a suboxone strip...and it was all better! I realized then that I could never again go from 4 mg a day to zero, cold turkey.

I am taking 1/16 of a strip (.5mg) right now, having done a rapid taper. I tried to mitigate the lack of energy with stimulents (for example, SST, sold at GNC), or prescription stimulants. Stimulants are effective at mitigating the lethargy in my case; however, stimulants raise my blood pressure, which, even without stimulants, would be my worst problem. So, I plan on taking a blood pressure reducer like clonidine to mitigate the coldness and chest pressure and "anxiety" which is just blood pressure. Suboxone is a blood pressure reducer. I think that it is wise to replace one blood pressure reducer with another in order to improve my chances of success.

I have been taking suboxone for about 3 1/2 years, 8 mg. I will let you know how it goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Im trying it again
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:15 pm 
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Buprenorphine doesn't directly affect blood pressure... but during any opioid withdrawal there is activation of the sympathetic nervous system, which generally raises heart rate and blood pressure. I say 'generally' because the dehydration caused by diarrhea and sweating can prevent the increase in blood pressure. Consult your doctor-- but realize that there is considerable risk from taking medications that reduce blood pressure when a person is dehydrated. A person must be certain to drink tons of fluids during withdrawal.

All anesthesiologists also learn about a very potent effect on blood pressure, from combining benzodiazepines and opioids. If a person on buprenorphine takes Xanax, there is usually little effect because of the tolerance at the mu receptor. But if a person has tapered way down on buprenorphine, and then takes buprenorphine combined with a 'benzo', I would expect a significant drop in blood pressure-- especially in older people (say over 60-70).

You mentioned a 'rapid taper'... remember that because of the long half life of buprenorphine, it takes at least a few days for the body to reach a new steady state after any change in dose of buprenorphine. If you taper too fast-- for example each day-- you will get to the point, in several days, where you suddenly get hit with severe withdrawal. If you want to minimize the withdrawal, you will do better to taper, wait a week, taper, wait a week, etc.

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Im trying it again
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:47 pm 
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My doctor advised me to do the same. Taper, wait a week, taper, wait a week, etc. When I have tried to do that, I find that I will encounter an onset of pain in my back. I may be overly sensitive to pain. Pain will make me relapse very easily because I know I do not have to experience pain if I don't want to: relief is just a dose of suboxone away.

What you say is true about how long it takes for the taper to catch up with me, in my own experiences with tapering or stopping. Everyone is different. For me, I believe it is a matter of timing. When I am not in pain, that is the time for me to try and stop. I take the sublingual films. I cut down from 8mg to 4mg and stayed on 4 for a week, then cut down from 4 to 2. No problems. I was on 2 for a few days, then dropped to 1. No problems. I have tried another time to go below 2 and couldn't, but this time I have had no problems going down to 1. I have gone from 2 to .5 in two weeks. That's what I mean by rapid. Yesterday I was going to stop, but my blood pressure rose through the roof. I am in a remote location working and in two days I will be home with access to prazosin and clonidine and that will be my ticket to zero baby!

Yeah I am not a doctor and don't know the hows and whys. But I do know when I stop suboxone my blood pressure goes through the roof. But for me, if I'm not in pain, I'm going to find something else to lower the blood pressure. Xannex just isn't the right choice for me. It didn't work. I will keep that in mind about drinking lots of water. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Im trying it again
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 8:56 pm 
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A very odd thing happened to me when I was first induced onto Suboxone. I did just like I was told. Took my last dose of hydrocodone/soma/tramadol/xanax the night before and was in moderate withdrawals by 4 PM the next day. I was given two 8 mg tabs and let them melt. Within 15 minutes I started to feel relief. He gave me another 8 mg pill to equal 24 mg's and then I felt really good, weird, loopy. A check of my BP came back with a huge increase. Along with my heart pounding, very high blood pressure, they also discovered a missed beat. What is that? Arrhythmia or palpitations? Anyway, it scared both the nurse and doctor and they got me set up to see a cardiologist. Did the echo stress test and passed with flying colors. It was just that first day.

For one, they shouldn't have let me drive. Two, I went home and promptly threw up. Just like I took too much heroin in the old days.

Just giving my 2ยข here. It's been a long time since I posted that info.

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 Post subject: Re: Im trying it again
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:23 am 
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Day #4 no suboxone. Today begins my forth day without a sliver of a sliver of a sliver of suboxone.

The last time I tried to do this, day four was the day I gave up, having gone from 4mg to zero cold turkey. It really is a lot easier when you taper down to .5mg. Plan it ahead, so you have time off work. In my case, I work for two weeks then have two weeks off. I tapered down from an average of 8 mg (sometimes 10 or 12, sometimes 4, depending upon pain levels) down to 2mg, and from 2 to 1 mg, and 1mg to .5. All to fit my unique working schedule and circumstances. Timed so I could stay in bed for a week, or two weeks if necessary.

Do I sneeze often? Yes. When I sneeze, I sneeze five times and then hang on the verge of a sixth sneeze but five is the lucky number. I sneeze throughout the day. Keep some tissue handy. Don't blow snot and partially chewed food on loved ones (or any potential loved ones). Take a non drowsy anti-histamine during the day for a week, like Zyrtec or Claritin.

Do I have a tightness in my chest and coldness in my extremities (ie high blood pressure)? Yes. I have experienced this feeling and it is one of the worst of the three most challenging barriers to quitting (fatigue, high blood pressure, and pain). I have mitigated this miserable symptom with a blood pressure reducing medicine called Prazisin. In my own situation, I am in the pre-hypertension stage but the blood pressure reduction medicine takes away the coldness in my hands and feet and body.

Pain? Yeah. Take some hot baths with epson salts. Go see a chiropractor and get a massage or something. Take OTC pain reducers. Honestly I would not be quitting if I was experiencing pain but for whatever reason I am not currently in pain, so...lucky me. Pain is what got me onto prescription pain pills, to which I developed a tolerance, which led me to suboxone, and I have been on suboxone for 3 years, and off it for 3 full days, and today again is day four.

Fatigue. This is a problem for a working man. Fortunately for me, however, that I work for two weeks and have two weeks off. I mitigated fatigue during my tapering stage with dopamine stimulants. I confess: the stimulants increase high blood pressure and make me even colder, which is particularly difficult to endure since I live in Alaska and it is cold here anyways. I am not going to take any more stimulants now that I have so much time I can spend in bed. Guess what? Fatigue and TV go together. Watch a whole series! Checkout some seasonal shows like Blacklist, Sons of Anarchy, Dexter, Rome, the Tudors, all on Netflix. It makes time go by quick! Fortunately for me I have the luxury of being a couch potato (or bed potato).

Another way to perhaps combat fatigue is to explore ways to boost dopamine. Perhaps your doctor can help you with that. There are natural ways too.

I am not out of the woods yet. In fact, I may just be in the middle of a dense, heavily wooded forest. But you know what grows in forests? There's always something in a forest that will get you f-ed up. Oh, that brings me to my final point. You need a reason to quit suboxone or it will be difficult to stop. In my case, I am going to continue chasing the dragon as one doctor put it. I plan on substituting one addiction for another. That sounds terrible but in my mind's eye as long as future addictions are less extreme and less expensive, then what the heck? It's all about quality of life for me. I am giving up opiates and switching to stimulants. Should have been on stimulants my entire life and I blame doctors for not spotting ADD early on in my life. All the signs were there. Even if I never go through with future scripts, it is at least a dream, a goal, a reason to quit! I am simply on way too many controlled substances and it is time to consolidate, and get at the root.


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 Post subject: Re: Im trying it again
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:41 am 
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Day 8. Still off suboxone.


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 Post subject: Re: Im trying it again
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:50 am 
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I have been reading elsewhere that I am not the first person to conceive of using stimulants to combat tiredness and fatigue from suboxone withdraws, and most of those people say that after trying it they find it to be a bad idea, which makes them feel worse. However, that was another webboard and those individuals were taking illegal stimulants like meth or cocaine. I am using ritalin and adderall (in combination with prazisin to lower blood pressure) and I can't say I share other people's bad experiences so far. Then again everybody is diferent. Right now the worst symptom is restless legs. My doc prescribed miraplex (first one last night did not help), after recommended dosages of flexirills and ativan did not work.


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