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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:59 am 
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I have been taking 0.25 (film) 2X a day for a total of 0.5 suboxone. I have been on it for a year and a half, trying to taper each month. I started at a ridiculous dose of 24 mg.

I have heard so many horror stories about how it will take me a year to be truly symptom free. I just want to know what to expect in the next 2 weeks; the next 30 days; the next 60 days.

I don't believe my doctor. He says I will experience w/d symptoms for 60 days including any pain relief I may have had (I have kypho-scoliosis) PLUS serotonine issues. I have been taking clonodine, plus valium for 2 months now so I feel my body is already used to them. I also take Lyrica, clonazepam and some tizanidine for muscle spasms.

Already (day 1) I am having feelings of cattle prods in my arms and legs. Valium helps that and I DO KNOW I have to get off valium pronto. However, I will use it as needed to get through this feeling of my muscles in my arms and legs attacking me.

Will someone PLEASE tell me the truth of what I can/will experience knowing all the above info? If anyone has any questions, please ask - I'm desperate to know the truth of what to expect. I've read of everything ranging from acute withdrawal to anxiety/depression/wanting to "off myself"/etc. Frankly, I feel these things anyway in some degree.

I knew I hated this medicine from the onset - now I know why.

The truth of what I will experience will help immensely. Thank you.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:17 am 
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Holy hell! Your doctor told you 60 days? I jumped from 2 mgs, had 2.5 weeks of blah, and am 34 days off subs and feel 100% normal and even better than when I took subs. I was on subs for 5 or so years too. Others here just jumped last week from low doses and are feeling better every day. Sorry your dr told you that and scared you.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:27 am 
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Everyone is different and will have different experiences...not everyone's experience is a nightmare :) some have jumped at much much higher doses and lived to tell it, so I don't think you should worry- worry will only make things worse.


The first time I jumped I jumped from the same amount as you, and to be quite honest it was 100% doable. I had no comfort meds....I tried to get up every morning and exercise, eat, and have a few chores to do throughout the day, otherwise I took it easy. For the first 3-4 days I felt symptoms, but very slight symptoms. I had no energy, sweats a little, trouble sleeping (but Tylenol pm helped), sore muscles, and tons of anxiety. Most of the battle was in my mind and unfortunately I let it get the best if me, BUT as for the physical withdrawals, it was manageable and started to see improvement as early as day 5. I also taper from 24mg-.5mg and I know that was a HUGE help.

Don't let the psychological warfare get to you...don't stress over what you MIGHT feel, just take it a day at a time. Try to exercise, eat healthy, enjoy hot showers/baths, set some minor goals each day (do some laundry), and take it easy. Try to keep your mind off of this. Allow yourself some time to participate in this online forum, but don't let it take over....reading forums TRYING to figure out what "horror" was coming next and questioning why I felt ok was what got me into trouble last time. It's good to share your experience and connect with others who can relate to what you're going through...just remember everything in moderation :)

Good luck on your journey! You CAN do this and although I can't give you a definite timeline of how things will play out, I can assure you it doesn't have to be a nightmare....you will likely have some tough days but if you really want to be done with suboxone, you WILL make it through to the other side! I (and many others I'm sure) will be cheering you on along the way....keep us posted ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:31 am 
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If you want a day to day account of what its like, read my thread DOING IT. I posted multiple times a day throught out the whole detox.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:37 am 
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TeeGee wrote:
I have been taking 0.25 (film) 2X a day for a total of 0.5 suboxone. I have been on it for a year and a half, trying to taper each month. I started at a ridiculous dose of 24 mg.

I have heard so many horror stories about how it will take me a year to be truly symptom free. I just want to know what to expect in the next 2 weeks; the next 30 days; the next 60 days.

I don't believe my doctor. He says I will experience w/d symptoms for 60 days including any pain relief I may have had (I have kypho-scoliosis) PLUS serotonine issues. I have been taking clonodine, plus valium for 2 months now so I feel my body is already used to them. I also take Lyrica, clonazepam and some tizanidine for muscle spasms.

Already (day 1) I am having feelings of cattle prods in my arms and legs. Valium helps that and I DO KNOW I have to get off valium pronto. However, I will use it as needed to get through this feeling of my muscles in my arms and legs attacking me.

Will someone PLEASE tell me the truth of what I can/will experience knowing all the above info? If anyone has any questions, please ask - I'm desperate to know the truth of what to expect. I've read of everything ranging from acute withdrawal to anxiety/depression/wanting to "off myself"/etc. Frankly, I feel these things anyway in some degree.

I knew I hated this medicine from the onset - now I know why.

The truth of what I will experience will help immensely. Thank you.


Hey TeeGee,
I am 8 days off after an 8 YEAR habit and feel great, honestly! I did a 6mo. taper from 12mgs to .375mgs. A lot depends on your physical condition prior to jump, tapering process, and mental and spiritual "readiness". I am a testament that it can be done relatively painlessly. At least I can say that with confidence on "day 8", but I am quite optimistic about the future (this is my choice for today). Good luck and keep posting!
BF

PS. Like Trainer, I also have a thread (actually 2 threads, one for my tapering after 2mgs, (Need Support, username rca1004) and another after my "jump" called "Flying towards freedom", current username. Check it out if you think it might help you.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:13 am 
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Hi TG; Unfortunately some doctors can be clueless when it comes to getting off this drug, some underplay the effects of going CT, others seem to overplay it. Subs withdrawal seems to differ person by person.

I went down to .15 mg/day before jumping (hard to measure; might actually have been .125 mg), and I'm on day 7. Days 1 & 2 I felt heavy and fatigued, but nothing unmanageable, so long as you're not running a marathon that day, lol.

By day 3, I was able to exercise (important!) and eat properly (also important!), and I was already starting to feel human. Each day was an improvement, and by 2 days ago, I felt pretty good. My stomach is still a little loose, and I'm having trouble sleeping, but I could have been better prepared with Melatonin or whatever. I'd call the whole CT experience pretty much a piece of cake, compared to what I feared it would be like.

Good luck.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:16 pm 
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Thanks everyone!! OK, maybe I can do this. Today was to be sub-free but after 14 hrs or so my legs were so jumpy I took about half of a .25 strip - I still feel jumpy.

Maybe it's because I'm not in good health - since back surgery in 08 it's been drugs, drugs and more drugs. I'm so sick of it and the sweating is unbearable - I even sweat like a pig when I'm taking suboxone.

So these posts helped so much. I also read some reviews on Amazon about books on sub and reviewers said how it took a year of withdrawal symptoms, etc. so yeah, it's a head warfare and I'm not good at that.

OK. No more sub today. Friday will be sub free and I'm going to be liberal when I feel those cattle prods in my arms and legs (like right now) and sleep when I have to.

Somehow, I have to get the energy to go to the store and get some food - I'm out of everything. A nap first I think.

thanks SO MUCH for the encouragement. I think a young healthy person would do much better than I (I'm 57) and have had so many medical probs and on the meds I mentioned. Perhaps it's the whole bag of problems that's causing me the anxiety and fear.

That's it - fear. I'm scared. These posts help so much in kicking that fear in the ass. I appreciate each and every one!!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 8:04 pm 
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I hate the sweats and got stuck with them for 19 days! I swear my coworkers must of thought I boycotted showers. Hahaha. I walked around with my arms pinned to my sides. I laugh about it now...back then, ya not so much......


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:38 pm 
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Well, it's been a tough day, but no suboxone. A ton of what feels like anxiety but I don't normally feel that way. Pain too, but I sort of expected that - I took naproxin and it helped.

I also took a lot of clonidine and valium. I had to; I didn't want to fail to day. I am committed to getting off this shit, I hate it with a passion.

I think it started when I was on 400 mg of morphine and couldn't taper. The dr finally suggested suboxone and I agreed. I waited 3 days and thought I was in enough w/d for the sub to help - nope - it sent me into massive w/d symptoms, so much so I wanted to check into a hospital. I got through those next 3 days but since then I have hated this medicine with a passion so yeah, I am committed.

I'm just weak and I have so many medical problems with my back, any discomfort just really affects me. I think if I were younger and had a drug problem, I would be more successful at discomfort!!! I could join a gym, go running, etc.

Anyway, in spite of the massive doses of meds I've taken to get through the extreme rls in both arms, legs and the anxiety, I'm ok. A lot of time in bed today. For some weird reason, I have been super hungry today - I thought I'd lose my appetite. I ate alot during the day, breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, but not much dinner. I normally don't eat much during the day, but sort of make up for it at dinner. Not today.

The good news is tomorrow is a new day and I hope to lower the meds and hope the rls cooperates. I am not going to take the suboxone, no way. Lol, it's occurred to me I could make some money with all strips I have left!

As of 8:30 pm, I feel fairly comfortable - just this anxiety is still bothering me but the rls is calmed down. No wonder, I've taken enough clonidine and valium to put down an elephant. Not sure why I have such a super high tolerance to these medicines, I guess because in general my body is screwed up and I've had to take alot of meds. Not going to over analyze, just thinking out loud.

I probably won't go to bed until late, I've spent so much time there already today. It depends on how the rls does or doesn't act up.

Thanks again for all the positive reponses!!

Oh - I have not sweated ONCE today - what's up wth that? Is it the extra clonidine or NOT taking sub? I used to always have a massive sweat attack about 10 minutes after a sub dose. No sweats at all, just bad rls.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:02 pm 
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Best thing for rls is a long hot epsom salt bath. Theywere the only thing that helped me. I wwouldn't have rls all day but the second I got into bed, it started. I would have to sit in the tub for a good 20 minutes but the rls went away.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:18 pm 
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I cant imagine that taking .25 would really do anything, other than mask your protracted wd symptoms before bed. I would expect to feel better after maybe 6 days at that dose?? Its not alot, you'll be fine. As for the valium, yeah your right. Stopping that is huge. I cant express in words how Huge. I spent 14 months weaning off of xanax, and took my last .25 dose in december and im still have terrible derealization, nerve pain, confusion, no appetite, numbness in feet and lower legs. Suboxone is a cakewalk compaired to benzos. Benzos really change brain chemistry, and its difficult to regain conplete normalcy after discontinuing. Be careful, thats a dangerous path to take. Its a dead end, and you cant dig yourself out of this one. Its not like opiates. After 3 weeks you dont get better, you get worst. It takes most people, who use more than three months, to feel somewhat normal after a year of sobriety. I know alot about benzos, and would hate to let someone walk right by me, knowing i could have said something they otherwise would of found out the hard way.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:41 pm 
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m0jitoMan wrote:
I cant imagine that taking .25 would really do anything, other than mask your protracted wd symptoms before bed. I would expect to feel better after maybe 6 days at that dose?? Its not alot, you'll be fine. As for the valium, yeah your right. Stopping that is huge. I cant express in words how Huge. I spent 14 months weaning off of xanax, and took my last .25 dose in december and im still have terrible derealization, nerve pain, confusion, no appetite, numbness in feet and lower legs. Suboxone is a cakewalk compaired to benzos. Benzos really change brain chemistry, and its difficult to regain conplete normalcy after discontinuing. Be careful, thats a dangerous path to take. Its a dead end, and you cant dig yourself out of this one. Its not like opiates. After 3 weeks you dont get better, you get worst. It takes most people, who use more than three months, to feel somewhat normal after a year of sobriety. I know alot about benzos, and would hate to let someone walk right by me, knowing i could have said something they otherwise would of found out the hard way.



Thank you. I do know it's important. Before this, I was down to 5mg val per day. About 8 years ago, I got into trouble with xanax as well and had to wean to tiny bits of the pill and even then had trouble - facial tics, trouble with speech, etc. The minute I can get thru this hump of sub, I'm back down to 5, then that's next - I'm worried about altzheimers, and so is my daughter. I know it's going to be really, really shitty - especially valium. I am aware and truly appreciate you're caring enough to say so. The truth is, you can't die with sub detox. You CAN die with valium withdrawals. That's the truth.

One step at a time - having a twisted and crooked spine is painful and no fun. Initially there's lot's of good reasons to be on meds. In fact, I need another surgery. I'm trying to be smarter about meds this time, and want to be off pretty much everything by the time I need another surgery and after that - I've got to be tough about saying 'no' when offered those prescriptions.

I'm taking you're advice and taking a bath. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:23 am 
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Hi all. I write this from my hospital room, was admitted Wednesday for "opiate withdrawal" (naturally) due to the meds prescribed for severe rls. So, I've gotten no sleep, been tested for everything under the sun, had about 6 blood pulls, and all the various indignities that go along with that reason for admittance.

It's been no fun and finally today I feel well enough to go home. I guess I'm most pissed at how hard i worked, only to end up here with that diagnosis forever on my "chart".

Regardless, I'm much better and should go home today. Zero fun. Say no to opiates, especially Suboxone.

Thx for all the support, I won't be a stranger. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:16 pm 
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TeeGee wrote:
Hi all. I write this from my hospital room, was admitted Wednesday for "opiate withdrawal" (naturally) due to the meds prescribed for severe rls. So, I've gotten no sleep, been tested for everything under the sun, had about 6 blood pulls, and all the various indignities that go along with that reason for admittance.

It's been no fun and finally today I feel well enough to go home. I guess I'm most pissed at how hard i worked, only to end up here with that diagnosis forever on my "chart".

Regardless, I'm much better and should go home today. Zero fun. Say no to opiates, especially Suboxone.

Thx for all the support, I won't be a stranger. :)


Does this mean you are back on subs? If so what dose did you jump back to?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:55 pm 
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I'm soo confused. Say no to opiates and sub, but you wont be a stranger? So are you still off??


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:22 am 
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m0jitoMan wrote:
I'm soo confused. Say no to opiates and sub, but you wont be a stranger? So are you still off??


I've been out of the hospital about 10 days now. I was low on everything a CBC blood pull could find - vitamins, everything. My body has been through hell.

No, I am not back on suboxone and will never ever ever touch that evil medicine again. I despise it. I take Rx Naproxin (Aleve) for pain, along with Wellbutrin, Lyrica, Clonazepam at night and 3X valium during the day. Next month I will start reducing the valium.

I am a roller coaster of emotions. Sometime I just sit and stare at my dirty apartment and laundry, other days I actually tackle a job or two (mostly because I have to). My main emotion is anger which I take out on the nearest person I can find. I told the maintenance man in my apartment building to fuck off. I never treat people like that. I find fault with everything and everybody and tell them so. Needless to say, I'm not a popular person with my family.

Today, I'm going to a large family BBQ that I'm looking forward to. I plan on wearing makeup (since my facial sweating has stopped since going off suboxone) and looking nice. I know everyone wants to know what's wrong with me so I'm simply going to say that by being on opioids for so long my brain is a bit messed up and it'll take a while to be normal again. I don't know what else to say.

I've emailed the subox doc and hope to hear back.

The anger part scares me. I am afraid I have no endorphins or serotonin left in my brain. I can't excercise like others because of my back to produce normal endorphins so I'm just waiting this out.

This easy jump everyone told me about? Ha Ha. Jokes on me. It's been hell. I realize everyone is different and perhaps my spine surgery and the subsequent years of high doses of morphine, then 18 mos of suboxone changed me. Regardless, the easy advice about this jump off suboxone has not been true for me at all. I have been very, very sick and still am. But I'm NOT going backwards. I've worked too hard to get this far.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:21 am 
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TeeGee wrote:

Today, I'm going to a large family BBQ that I'm looking forward to. I plan on wearing makeup (since my facial sweating has stopped since going off suboxone) and looking nice. I know everyone wants to know what's wrong with me so I'm simply going to say that by being on opioids for so long my brain is a bit messed up and it'll take a while to be normal again. I don't know what else to say.

This easy jump everyone told me about? Ha Ha. Jokes on me. It's been hell. I realize everyone is different and perhaps my spine surgery and the subsequent years of high doses of morphine, then 18 mos of suboxone changed me. Regardless, the easy advice about this jump off suboxone has not been true for me at all. I have been very, very sick and still am. But I'm NOT going backwards. I've worked too hard to get this far.


Hi TeeGee,
So sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. I think it is a really good sign that you are looking forward to the BBQ- IMO that means you must have "some" endorphins, or you would not be looking forward to "anything", right?
Just a thought, but maybe it would make you (and your family) feel a bit better if you put more of a positive spin on your situation. You should be PROUD that you are taking steps to get healthy! Don't focus on "being on opioids for so long", but rather the FACT that you have KICKED SUBOXONES" BUTT! Not an easy thing to do my friend. Could you tell them about your success in this area, then maybe explain your brain is still "healing" but focus on how far you have come? (try not to look back at past mistakes right now- focus on your success!)
I'm curious who told you about an "easy" jump?? Perhaps it is so that someone said "easy", but as far as I can recall, people have used words like "easier" than from a higher dose, or "more manageable", but never "easy". And if you read any of the recent threads, I don't think anyone here said on Days 1-7ish "oh this is so easy"! We all suffered, just some to a greater or lesser degree. And I understand you have compounded issues so you may be suffering more than most. But suffering is still suffering in any degree. Perhaps you had/ have unrealistic expectations. I found it was a bit "easier" (not EASY!) if I accepted that I was going to suffer and just adopted a "warrior" attitude to help me power and fight through the days, staying focused on fighting the "enemy" (drug) and doing what i needed to do to get it OUT of my body.
Some other things you can do for mood besides exercise:
1, Listen to upbeat music as much as possible- all day if you can
2. Stay out "in the light" around loving people
3. Get outdoors in nature. Feel the sun on your face and the wind in your hair. Appreciate the beauty.
4. Get a gentle massage
5. Move as much as you can manage...a gentle walk (or roll if you are in a chair?), leg lifts or arm lifts with or with out weights- whatever you can manage safely without too much pain, and don't forget to stretch!

Hope this helps!
Enjoy that BBQ!!
:D BF

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:10 pm 
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TeeGee,

Glad to hear that you made it through the worst of the storm! I had switched from methadone to suboxone and stayed on suboxone for 4/5 years. Honestly, I sort of lost count of the years. I jumped from 3MG and now have been clean for 23 days. My withdrawal peak came around days 3-4, then those pesky RLS went away. But I really attribute my success through withdrawals to the clonidine and phenobarbital (I chose that over Valium because it never did anything for my w/d's in the past). With that cocktail, I was pretty much comatose for the first 3 days until the RLS kicked in. Thankfully, my doctor wrote me a disability note and I took 2 weeks off of work.

The hardest part of getting off of Subs for me was not the peak, but rather relearning how to live my life without them and coping with the lingering symptoms that are still present - but nowhere near as bad as my first 2 weeks. The only lingering symptoms I still have are slight muscle aches, the occasional chill down my spine, some slight sweating, and of course the troubles sleeping. My doc gave me Ativan for anxiety, then I switched to Valium, and also now take Neurontin for the occasional aches and to help me sleep. To tell you the truth, I think the Valium is causing my sleep troubles more than the actual detox.

I too had the rollercoaster of emotions, which improved each day. I would cry several times a day. My crying spells only lasted through the first 2 weeks.

I saw the most improvement right around day 21, when my muscle aches went from 100% to 10% literally overnight. Could have been the Neurontin or could have just been that the Subs are finally starting to leave my system for good. The aches were by far my largest complaint along with the lethargy and lack of motivation.

Since I also hate benzos because they fry your brain, my doc gave me a smaller dose of phenobarbital to detox me from the benzos over the course of 4 days. He told me to take 4 pills on the first day, 3 on the next, then 2, then just 1 on the last day. Maybe you can talk to your doctor about detoxing from the Valium using the PB? My doc told me it's 1,000 times safer than the benzos and my brain won't be able to tell a difference. Plus, the half life of PB is 50-100 hours so it stays in your system for a while to give that "slow taper" effect.

Hopefully you're starting to feel a bit better. My biggest advice is to not get discouraged by having a good day and then having a bad day the next. I've come to realize that it's a marathon and not a sprint. When I have a bad day, I come on this forum and it gives me the encouragement I need to stop feeling so sorry for myself. But even as I write this feeling some lingering symptoms, I cannot be happier that I made the decision I did to jump, which is what keeps me going everyday. You should be really proud of yourself for coming this far. I personally mark each clean day on my calendar as motivation to keep going.

ButterFLYING is spot on with the mood enhancing activities. Listening to music helped me a lot and still does, and even though I have to spend an hour convincing myself to get off the couch and take a bike ride, I feel SOO much better after I do. Lavender scented epsom salt baths really helped me too. I still take one every few days just to calm my mind and relax. I'm also thankful that my boyfriend and my best friend have been so supportive because just being around them and having a good laugh takes my mind off of everything.

Hang in there, it's only going to get easier from here! :)


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