It is currently Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:10 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

What is the true ceiling effect of suboxone?
4mg 50%  50%  [ 12 ]
32mg 50%  50%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 24
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 6:17 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:55 pm
Posts: 14
I've been reading about the ceiling effect of suboxone and there seems to be a lot of people saying its 4mg and then other people saying its 32mg of course I am talking about the sublingual ROA


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:23 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Dr. Junig refers to the ceiling effect as being at or around 4 mg. This is the point after which adding more of the sub (bupe) does NOT increase its effects. That's what the ceiling means. Some other sites talk about a "ceiling dose" and refer to 32 mg. Most of us go with what Dr. Junig says. If you read his blog (Suboxone TalkZone-see top of page) and his videos, you'll get a very good explanation of the ceiling effect. Plus there's a lot of explanations of it in different places here on the forum. Better than I can spew out at this moment. I hope this helps.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:38 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:55 pm
Posts: 14
hatmaker510 wrote:
Dr. Junig refers to the ceiling effect as being at or around 4 mg. This is the point after which adding more of the sub (bupe) does NOT increase its effects. That's what the ceiling means. Some other sites talk about a "ceiling dose" and refer to 32 mg. Most of us go with what Dr. Junig says. If you read his blog (Suboxone TalkZone-see top of page) and his videos, you'll get a very good explanation of the ceiling effect. Plus there's a lot of explanations of it in different places here on the forum. Better than I can spew out at this moment. I hope this helps.


Kind of, I'm still a little confused does he mean 4mg in the bloodstream or 4mg by the dose, the reason I ask is because of the factors based on absorption. for example, does he mean taking 4mg or 4mg fully absorbed and in the bloodstream ?


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:14 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 pm
Posts: 114
BloodStream, Because I have heard Dr.Junig Say that only 10-15% of the Suboxone Film gets absorbed into the BloodStream. That is why it is so important to do the same routine when you take the films into your mouth and also stick with the same dose until you are stabilized. I see so many people go all over the place with their dose. Me Included but now I am sticking to the same dose and practice the same routine when I take my films.

Also look down a few threads to this link here-->http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6606

here are many many questions about Suboxone that Dr.Junig answers, in fact your answer to this specific question is in this Video Q&A with Dr. Junig himself....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:19 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
The way I understand it is 4 mg by dose, because we never really know how much we're getting because of the low bioavailablity and who's checking our blood levels? Generally speaking, this is why most people on maintenance should be comfortably above the ceiling. This is to ensure we get the PARTIAL agonist effect that is above the ceiling instead of the agonist that is found below the ceiling.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:46 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 2:41 pm
Posts: 114
I am very New to the effects of Buprenorphine so I will submit to Hatmaker as she knows way more than I do. There just has not been enough research as of yet..IMHO..on Buprenorphine. Dr.Junig et;al are leading the way to possibly a re-evaluation of pain management in general. You should find the answer in the many Videos that Dr.Junig has on Buprenorphine. I suggest doing a YouTube or Vyou.com search "Dr.Junig / ceiling effect of Buprenorphine" to be able to listen to Dr.Junig's own words on the subject.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:35 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:16 pm
Posts: 9
Anything beyond 16-32mg is useless, depending on the individual. That is the common reference for the term 'ceiling effect' when it comes to Suboxone. The 4mg number is when the opioid receptors are fully saturated, some also refer to this as a 'ceiling effect.' This is how I understand it, at least.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:45 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
Excellent way to put it, k.crockett. Thanks for chiming in. :) It takes much to explain the ceiling affect, partial agonists, full agonists, affinity for mu receptor, etc etc. It took me awhile to understand it and I still don't get it completely.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:19 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:02 am
Posts: 166
In my opinion there is a "floor" and a "ceiling" -in terms of how one feels. Below 4mg is where feeling bad really starts and reductions down from here are the hardest. Doses above 32mg are just like too much vitamin c-- just peed away and do nothing to help-- wasted.

There may be other ceilings having to do with 'saturation' of mu sites etc. -- but they seem academic and it is hard to find a good use for them.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group