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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:57 am 
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Hi Everyone,
New member here that needs urgent help getting off Suboxone.
I was originally placed on 24mgs of sub about 3 years ago by my doctor.
Took an 8mg film strip 3 times a day.
I have tapered myself down to a dose of 2mgs per day and been on that dose for about 2 months.
My doctor has no idea I have tapered down and I have lots of subs saved up.
I tried to jump from the 2mg dose several times and failed each time as the symptoms were too much to handle.
I was able to make it 3-4 days, but had to resume taking 2mg to feel normal.
I'm scared I may never get off this powerful drug.

I'm looking for information and the best possible way others have tapered their dose down and finally gotten off the Suboxone. I didn't use any particular method before when I went from 24mgs down to the 2mg I'm now on. I just reduced when I basically felt like it. I spent 1-2 days on a few doses and maybe 4-5 on other dose amounts. But soon as I got down to 2mg is when the problems started. I'm not sure how to go about lowering the dose at this point.

This site looks like the place for excellent information. I hope someone may help me get off this drug once and for all. I'm all alone here and scared out of my mind that I may be on this drug forever. I know some of it can be a mental issue, but I am willing to fight to get my life back too.

Any help would be appreciated so much. Thank you to anyone who reads this and tries to help. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:36 pm 
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My advice to you is to do a long slow taper from 2 mg if you're trying to get off sub. We have a member who has come up with a pretty detailed template as a cutting guide for both 8 mg films and 2 mg films. Here's a link to his thread: http://www.suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php ... ght=#67285

I only suggest this because I've seen it up close and it makes it easy to figure out how much you're cutting off. I'm going to assume that you only have 8 mg films because your doctor doesn't know you're tapering. Could you tell him/her that you have tapered to 18 mg so he or she might prescribe 2 8mg films and 1 2mg film? That won't seem as drastic to your doctor, but it's much easier for you to taper from 2mg if you are starting from a 2mg strip.

You haven't mentioned why you are so impatient about getting off sub. I'm also concerned that you may not have considered how you will keep from relapsing once you are off the sub. I encourage you to make sure that you have a recovery plan in place before you are off sub completely.

Good luck to you. :)

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:24 pm 
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Hi Amy. Thank you so much for your reply. I was beginning to wonder if my thread was in the wrong spot or something like that. I guess I could have provided additional information in my first post also. Let me give a few other details and see what happens. I'll try to keep it short.

I'm 33 and been an addict for over 15 years using all kinds of different drugs. Narcotic pills were definitely my drug of choice. I was taking upwards of 400-600mgs per day of Vicodin, Perc's, Methadone, etc, etc, etc. Tried quitting many, many times and kept relapsing over and over. I lost nearly everything that was important in my life and finally hit "rock bottom" at that point. Had a nasty Benzo habit also which is the worst drug to get free from.

I have tried both NA and AA in the past, and they both did help, but I just never really wanted to remain clean before. Well I can assure you that I do now! A friend suggested I give Suboxone a try as she had been successful with it. I guess the sub doctor put me on too much of the sub (24mgs) in the beginning. He also told me to wait only 8-12 hours from my very last dose of narcotics before coming in and being inducted in his office. Turns out that wasn't nearly long enough and I went into Precipated Withdrawals. Thought I was going to die I was so sick, being in bed for days. After stopping the subs entirely at that point, I waited longer and was inducted again. Still too high, but I was again put on 24mgs per day for about 3 years.

I began tapering the dose on my own without his knowledge and got down to the 2mg dose I'm now on. Tried jumping from there as I said but that was nearly impossible for me and always had to get right back on that 2mg dose where I am right now.

To answer your question why I am so impatient, I just want my life back Amy. I have recovered from my years of drug abuse financially, and I'm actually quite healthy and in good shape physically. Now I want to get my friends back, and have family members want me around at different functions instead of me being the one they never wanted to be in attendance. I don't want to TELL them I'm clean and a new person, I want to SHOW them all I am with my actions, not words.

That link to the RX Cutting Plan is awesome Amy! Thanks for providing me with that! I'm going to definitely take your advice and taper from the 2mg I'm now on too using that plan! I see the 2mg sub films are the same exactl size as the 8mg ones. No sense using 8mg film when it would be so much easier to use and cut those 2mg ones into tiny doses. I have plenty of 8mg films saved up as I have been tapering without the doctors knowledge. I wonder if the pharmacy will let me swap some 8mg films for some of the 2mg ones? Probably not, but I know the sub doctor will give me those anyway if I ask him. He's pretty easy going and I'm sure he will give me the 2mg film if I ask him.

I'm going with my friend to her next NA meeting also. I'm going to use every tool at my disposal this time around to remain clean. Can't tell you how much I appreciate your reply. You have provided me with valuable info which I intend to use to the best of my ability. Thank you again so much! :)

Karen


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:42 am 
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I reduced this morning by .063mg and so far feel fine. This is my first time under 2mg and I am excited at the possibility of finally getting off the Suboxone. I'm planning on remaing here on this dose for about 4-7 days and reducing again at that time. I will continue to update my progress in case anyone else is interested. I wish everyone the very best in your efforts to get off this drug if that's what you intend to do.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:43 pm 
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Well I made it through the day after my first reduction from the 2mg dose. Seems I was worried for nothing at this point. Hopefully the rest of the reductions will go as smooth as today has. A couple of bumps, but nothing I can't handle. Of course I know it can jump up and bite me too at any point along the way. I'm not naive enough to think I may get through this unscaved, but I am also doing my best to remain positive.

I will update again tomorrow at some point when I get a chance. Hope everyone else is doing well in their recovery efforts. Kinda feels like I'm talking to myself here. lol. That's ok as I will use this thread as my journal to track my progress along the way each day. I will be able to look back and see how far I've come anytime I need to do so. Have a great evening everyone.

Karen


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:15 pm 
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i would stock up on immodium, and supplements like 5htp, magnesium, b12, etc. hylands restful legs helped me too even though i went in thinking it was a crock. i as well jumped at 2mg 14 days ago today.

i see people doing tapers to .5mg and less, yet SOME (not all) still have problems, and i am not saying a taper is right or wrong, it just didnt work for ME. i personally think when you get to such a small taper dose you're getting more norbuprenorphine on your brains receptors and not enough buprenorphine to block it, so you end up dealing with a full agonist rather than a partial...again i could (and probably am completely off) but i was able to make it this far with the above OTC meds an music. lots of good music. spine tingling music. you know what im talking about.

when i was in residential rehab for heroin and meth they said that there was always ONE symptom that broke a persons sobriety. for me it was RLS. might want to throw whatever you can at the worst symptom you get.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:50 am 
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There is no way to say that most taper and do well or most are okay with tapering to begin with.... All the information is in question or to be taken with a grain of salt. Most addicts can't taper properly. It's totally Te other way around... And that's from first hand experience and not because someone posted online about how well their taper is going. Lord only knows what those folks could or are really doing. So. You have to just see what works for you but when you look at the legit cold hard facts... It's of no surprise that tapering is difficult or near impossible.

Now.

If you post yo dispute this post... Please don't base your reply off of Internet or forum friends. I like you all I really do but you can't even trust the addicts you see in your daily life that are doing well in recovery. So I'm sorry. But I'm not buying it. Many post about getting off or tapering.... They have all either returned to suboxone or disappeared.... From this forum. Once in a very blue moon someone posts about being off for years and doing excellent... But... Maybe I'm just jaded due to personal experiences but I am just not buying it.

What's wrong with being on suboxone?

Mist of the time folks post a laundry list of symptoms that are supposedly from suboxone but could be any one of thousands of things. Again. I think this is due to the Internet spreading bs "truths" for whatever reason... You can't possibly base your own thoughts in suboxone on what someone says about their skin falling off or something. Idk.

Lesson here is... Just because someone posted something doesn't make it gospel.
Especially with addicts.

If you disagree that's great. Do whatever. I'm just posting as a member.

For those that disagree...

I tapered off of suboxone. From 16mg to 6mg and then nothing. I did this because the sub started making me very depressed, sleep a lot, ruined my marriage, and made all of my teeth rot out. So here I am already passed the real bad stuff (which wasn't really too bad) and just having trouble sleeping. I smoke pot for this and sometimes a xanax or two but I am totally in control of these... Opiates were my real problem. They help a lot. So now if I could pull out of this horrible depression and anxiety thanks to the suboxone wd... I would be fine. Ready to get my life back! It feels so good to be better. I never saw the need for any of that recovery crap. It never did much for me. Probably because the sub took away all my desperation and I felt great. So. Needless to say, I don't need any of that stuff because I feel great and am just ready to move past all of this mess and thanking god that I am now rid of THE ONE THING THAT WAS KEEPING ME CLEAN and can finally get a good night's sleep finally thanks to my trusty illegal drugs that I have no issue with controlling at all... Hmm... Just in case you were wondering... None of my depression or other issues are tied to using these drugs or my lack of recovery. Just an FYI. So. Good luck and I hope this helps!


Sound good? Sound helpful?
Sounds damaging and of no help to anyone other than gullible folks early on or someone that wants their bullshit verified.

Idk. Take it for what you will.

Sorry for landing on your thread. Nothing against you.

MM


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:52 am 
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Hello Fiveseven. Thanks for your advice and suggestions. I already take a few of the supplements you recommend, and will check on the rest if they are needed. Today is my 2nd day on less than 2mg and so far it's going ok.

As I mentioned a few times, I tried and tried to jump from the 2mg dose and failed every single time. Maybe I just wasn't mentally prepared at those times, but I am now. I'm motivated and will give this taper every opportunity to work for me. I have no other choice, I want my life back.

I'm not sure about your theory concerning small amounts of bupe, and what it does or doesn't do to brain receptors, I just know this Suboxone is one strong and powerful drug and it takes time to get it all out of your system. My opinion anyway.

Thank you so much for taking the time to comment. I really do appreciate it and wish you the very best.

Karen


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:33 am 
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Hi MovieMaker. Thanks for taking the time to comment. While I do agree that you just can't believe every single thing you read online, or in public forums, I take the stance of CHOOSING to believe why would anyone make up things that simply aren't true in their own case on an anonymous forum? In that regard if someone tells me something worked for THEM I choose to believe them. If I find it doesn't work for me I still believe it worked for them as I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

You may be correct when you say MOST addicts can't taper properly, It's certainly difficult to do and I certainly couldn't taper from narcotic pills trying many different times and was never successful in any of those attempts. If I had pills laying around I would gobble them down as fast as I could. But I was able to taper successfully from 24mgs of Suboxone down to 2mgs in the last nearly 3 years time. On one hand I was not successful, but on the other hand I was, or have been so the point could be argued either way in my own case. I was having difficulty getting off the 2mg by jumping. So now I am attempting to taper even lower and hopefully jumping from the smallest dose I can get to. For whatever reason it seems to be much easier to taper from Bupe than it ever did, or does from other pills.

When someone, or anyone posts what worked for them and what may work for me, I take what I think I can use and leave the rest. In my opinion that's what everyone should do here. Not every single thing is going to work for every single person as we are all so different. And what doesn't work well for one person may indeed work great for another.

If in MY own personal opinion I believe my best chance at getting clean lies in tapering from Suboxone then that's what I will be doing, or at least trying to do. If I'm not successful then so be it and I will try again, or try something else at that point.

And BTW, I personally know 3 people that have been on Suboxone/Subutex for over 3 years and ALL of them have been clean for well over 3 years now. I think lots of people that do get free and clean from subs, bupe, or other drugs do not stick around on forums like this one. They instead are out enjoying life and experiencing all the things that were missed while under the influence of some mind-altering substance. My opinion on that anyway.

Thanks again for your reply. I really do appreciate you taking the time you did to post to me. I wish you the very best.

Karen


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:53 am 
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Hi Karen,

I just now saw this thread, but posted a suggestion to you on another thread, so I'll re-post it here.

Hi Brown Eyed Girl, if you're still have trouble with your taper, you might want to try tapering with a daily schedule like this. 2mg, 1.75mg, 1.75mg, 2mg, 1.75mg, 1.75mg, 1.75mg, 1.75mg.

Then when you're ready, 1.75mg, 1.5mg, 1.5mg, 1.75mg, 1.5mg, 1.5mg, 1.5mg.

A lot of people have found success tapering this way.

cstby gave you some good advice about staying busy during your wd. Sitting around doing nothing is the worst thing you can do during wd, try to keep your mind and body busy, it does help.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:10 pm 
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Hey there Romeo. I really appreciate you re-posting your suggestion for me here so I wouldn't missi it. I can certainly see where it might work for someone, but the only thing I don't necessarily like about it is the going back UP in dose after a few days on a lower dose. That somehow to me gives a false impression of the reason for getting off the sub in the first place. I want to continue to get my dose LOWER each time and not raise it at any point. Hope you understand my position on this?

I really do thank you for taking the time to post to me here. I value your input very much and wish you the very best.

Karen


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:22 pm 
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Why do addicts do most the things they do? Why lie over little things or say you have cancer for attention? That's all I'm sayin. Good reply though.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:46 pm 
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And. Just an extra... If you choose to believe most all of this stuff because why would they lie.... Read the older taper/jump threads and see how many come back to suboxone, relapse, or disappear.

I just hate to see addicts feel like they have to taper or something bad will happen or that it's horrible to be on this stuff. I've seen too many friends die because they were guilt ed into not taking it or off of it.

So. Again. Think about what you have recovery wise or where you are without suboxone? It's hard to measure because on suboxone you feel great and everything is going well. But. When I jumped off... I didn't have anything in place that I thought I did... And even if I did... I wouldn't have stayed completely immersed in 12 step stuff so I wouldn't have done well without sub anyways.

I'm just being the voice of reason and experience rather than cheering for you when I whole heartedly think you should really think about this seriously.

Opiate addicts aren't like other addicts no matter how you want to look at it. We have all the cards stacked against us... So why not use the one thing that keeps us alive and free of opiates (and other drugs for most) and be happy? Instead of miserable just so we can say we aren't taking a medicine? Idk.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:49 pm 
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Yeah, I hear you Brown Eyed Girl. That method of tapering isn't for everyone. Bottom line is you have to do what works for you. Whatever works for you is the best way to taper.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:26 pm 
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That's right Romeo, you have to do what you feel is best for you to get clean. I had tried everything in the past. All the support groups, tapering from pills, jumping from those same pills, and finally the Suboxone which I am convinced is the way for me to go. It's not any kind of miracle drug, but just another TOOL to use in the fight against addiction issues like those other methods are.

I could have used that other method you mentioned, and maybe been successful too, but in the long run I feel reducing my dose as little as possible every 4-7 days is what I myself need right now. I will keep with my plan until it either gets me clean or fails. It will be no one's fault but my own if it doesn't work. I will ALWAYS say it's up to each individual to choose their own method of how they get clean.

My attitude is extremely positive right now, and I will give it all I have in me this time. I am also going to continue with NA/AA support groups with a friend of mine to give me every chance at success this time. All I ask is that everyone respect my choice just like I will surely respect everyone's else's choice too.

I see on another thread that you actually jumped from about 8mg of sub and you truly deserve congratulations for being able to do that! That had to be one wild ride? WOW.....good for you my friend!

Karen


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:05 pm 
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You will get this and your taper plan is not bad but I might stay a little longer at each dose. It seems there are different opinions on what is right but you will know eventually what is right for you and not just opinion. I never had the experience of withdrawals from my DOC or Suboxone so this was a new thing for me. My Dr. told me I would know when it was time and he was right. Eventually I felt I had everything in place and was ready. Being on my DOC would have never allowed me to prepare but Suboxone did and here I am 26 days in and during all never I thought of I need to take or I want to take an Opiate. Very much the opposite has been the case as I wanted this in my life. I hope, and I think I will always want that but if not I have also done everything I can including some group meetings which happen at my Dr's office. Being on here has helped a lot too but again the getting it done came down to me, my own plan, and knowing it was time.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:50 pm 
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Brown eyed girl,

Good for you for deciding to use the Rx film cutting guide. Just like you, I had trouble getting below the 2mg level because I reduced my dose by too much. Since I've started tapering with the guide, I've dropped in small amounts (.063mg) and so far I've made it down past 1mg without any problems.

I wish you luck and look forward to your updates! Just stay focused and get into a routine and the time just flies by!

RXFCG

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:27 am 
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Hey DBMB. Thanks for stopping by. You may be right and I will be required to remain at any one dose longer than i have planned. That's the beauty of it I guess, it's another option as nothing is written in stone. I'm gonna play it by ear and if I feel real good after 4 days I may reduce, if not I will go another day or a few days longer and then reduce. Has to be a wait and see type of situation for me this time.

I know for certain that it's MY time right now. My life has been messed up plenty and it's way past time to turn things around for this girl. Thanks again for your comments. They are really appreciated.

Karen


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:34 am 
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RXFCG wrote:
Brown eyed girl,

Good for you for deciding to use the Rx film cutting guide. Just like you, I had trouble getting below the 2mg level because I reduced my dose by too much. Since I've started tapering with the guide, I've dropped in small amounts (.063mg) and so far I've made it down past 1mg without any problems.

I wish you luck and look forward to your updates! Just stay focused and get into a routine and the time just flies by!

RXFCG


I think the RX Film Cutting Guide is excellent! It makes things very simple as there is no way I could ever get the doses figured up let alone cut without it. Those are very small doses (.063) and using the guide simplifies it so anyone could do this.

NIce to hear it's working well for you. I would much rather read all the success stories that focus on any of the negative ones, especially right now as I am attempting to change my life for the better. I need all the positive reinforcement I can get.

Thanks again for that RX Guide. It's another great tool to help fight this monster with.

Karen


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:41 am 
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Guess it's time for an update to keep track of my progress. To recap I was on a high dose of 24mgs of Suboxone for nearly 3 years and lowered my dose down to 2mg without my doctors knowledge. Tried to jump from that 2mg dose many times and always failed due to symptoms being so harsh. I figured I was forever going to be chained to the Suboxone. Finally made the decision to take my life back and get off this stuff once and for all. Ended up on this site and read about the knowledge and support others were being given and I knew I needed that also if I had any chance at success.

Today is my 3rd day under 2mg which is the lowestest I have ever gotten before. I'm down to a dose of 1.93mg which sounds crazy, but it actually makes sense. All it means is cutting a .25mg piece into 4 equal pieces using the RX Film Cutting Guide that a member (thanks RXFCG) here developed. Each of those 4 tiny pieces is .063mg each and the guide makes it easy to cut them up. It feels great too! Wooo Hooo! :D While certainly not painless as I do feel some hot/cold type symptoms and some belly issues at times, but I can assure anyone they can be dealt with. If this is the worst it gets I will consider myself very lucky.

My mindframe is extremely positive and I will NOT let the subs defeat me this time. I have also made a discovery that really got me to thinking here. I have felt near the exact same on a daily dose of 2mg that I did on a dose of 24mg!!!!! WTH??? That is just nuts!!! I knew the Suboxone was a very strong drug, but I had no idea it was THAT strong. And I felt the exact same as I lowered my dose from 24mgs down to 16, 12, 10, 8, 6, and 4mgs too!!!! I felt the same on all of those doses just as I have on the 2mg I was on. That's the true too1

And I have no doubt I will feel nearly the same as I continue to taper down either. That is just crazy guys! Imagine feeling the same on say 1mg as you do on 24mgs???? Might not be that way for everyone, but it sure was with me from 24mgs down to 2mgs.

So the bottom line it seems is I was not only taking WAY TOO MUCH Suboxone (which I knew) in the beginning, it seems I have wasted lots of time, and MONEY in the process!!!! Money for the doctors office visit and the cost of the subs. But it's the TIME involved that has me the most upset. Had that doctor inducted me on far, far less than he did, say 4-8mgs or less, I would have most likely been off this stuff by now??? Lessen well-learned by this gal. Makes me sick when I even think about it.

Oh well, it is what it is now. All I can do is get off with my own plan. I will continue to take it slow. Try to do it once and do it right I guess will be my plan now. I believe if I continue to reduce by those small amounts and take about 4-7 days between reductions, I will get off soon, and hopefully be problem-free in the process. My goal anyway.

Thanks to anyone who reads this and hope it can somehow help another member in their desire to get free and clean from Bupe. I'll continue to update my progress each day. Hope everyone has a great day today!

Karen


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