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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:46 am 
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Hi Q,

Sure is nice to hear from you and hope you get your system up and running soon. We have sure missed you here!

I'm ok Q, and sorry if i worried you. I know that relapse is always a possibility having done it in the past soooo many times previously. You just have to keep fighting the best way you know how and take it day by day. I did what I believed to be in the very best interest for me and my baby and I'm very happy I made the decision to take a dose of the Subutex. It did end the horrible cravings and allowed me to continue going forward.

I know what set everything off and triggered that event. I have discussed it with the appropriate people and have a working plan in place to hopefully prevent it from happening again. I'm doing very well at this time and just continuing to pick up right where I left off. I have some exciting things happening right now and looking forward to several possibilities and opportunities!

You never have to apologize to me girl. I know it's impossible to be here all the time. We all have lives that require us to be at different places at different times taking care of our own business. Just get back soon as you are able because we really do miss you being here.

Thanks so much for checking om me Q. Can't tell you in words how much that means to me right now. I look forward to chatting with you again soon!

Hugs,
Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:12 pm 
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Good on you Karen.
While the post about 'taking sub just as may as well be dope etc for addiction reasons' has a valid point, sometimes you just have to do what you need to.
I did it a lot in my taper. Would stop and redose a bit higher every now and then. Just to 'come up for air' and realise what i was working for. This then gave me the resolve to continue on.
Also, not everyone needs all this 'treatment plan this, treatment plan that. A lot of us get to the point of just being done with it. A switch is turned.
Sometimes we find the strength to do it ourselves.
I'm going to get shouted down. Sometimes i get so sick of hearing about 'treatment plans' i bet they have no more success than anything else.
I got the shits a bit after reading that post.
Blah, blah, blah.
Cheers karen, C.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:23 am 
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Hello C,

Thanks for your continued support.

I completely agree that we all have to do what is best for ourselves. We get all the info we can to hopefully make an informed decision that will better our lives. But in the end it's our decision alone.

I like your anology of a switch being turned because that was exactly what it was for me. My drug abuse got to the point of me just being tired of all of it. I hit that switch and just didn't want to ever use again. There are hiccups that follow us along the way and we also have to deal with that the best we know how.

I did what anyone else would have done...what I considered the best thing to do for me, and I would do it again too if the situation presents itself. And I also reserve the right to change my mind at any point too. We never know how the other person truly feels at the time.

I'm always open to change too as change can be good at times. But when it's all said and done we have to live with our decisions.....the best we know how each day.

Always nice to hear from you C.

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:09 pm 
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Again. We can just agree to disagree.
You can continue to use willpower and keep promising yourself you wont/don't want to use opiates....

But staying off of suboxone and other opiates after becoming an addict without attending 12 step type meetings daily... Is just like what you said.... The lottery of life....

Sure. We can all take that leap of faith, toying with horrible problems... On the hopes that we are the one in a million "lottery winner" that has spontaneous remission.

If everyone or even a percentage worth mentioning just "got tired of it all" and never picked up again until they died, then tons more addicts would just stop. Trust that.


And those three choices are based in fact. Read Dr J's book.... Dying To Be Clean.

Good luck to you. I mean you no harm or bad blood... I just want you to at least think about this.... Your side sounds like someone that just doesn't want to be an addict anymore, took suboxone long enough to lull into comfortable living far from active use, and now they can just be done and live a normal life just like everyone else.... As long as they try hard enough.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Not everyone who stays clean has to attend 12 Step Programs. Maybe you need to join a forum where everyone wants to stay on suboxone for the test of their lives. This, is not that place. You put down everyone on every thread because YOU couldn't hack it. Get a life, buddy. Move on and stop trying to bully people into your decision.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:27 pm 
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MovieMaker, despite the fact that you dialed back the rhetoric a small amount, Karen did ask for you to stop posting on her thread. You can speculate all you want, but do it on your own thread, not one where you've worn out your welcome.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:10 pm 
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Thank you to Carissa and Amy!

With no offense to Dr. J, but just because a doctor, any doctor, says something is true in a book, doesn't mean that it's FACT as you suggest, for every single person!

This was in a post, in part, by Dr. J ammending his stance on counseling and lifetime meetings.

I will NEVER agree to anything with you MM....not even to disagree.

End of story.....now please go away like a good little boy as you've kindly been asked to do!





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Post subject: Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:26 pm

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Frankly, I argue against the oft-heard argument by doctors that 'counseling is necessary'-- simply because there are PLENTY of bad couselors out there. I don't mean to pick on that field-- there are plenty of bad doctors as well.

I must say that I have several people right now in my practice who have been on Suboxone for several years, who I am sure (well, pretty sure) will do OK after stopping Suboxone.

Let me amend the statement I have apparently suggested about a lifetime of meetings to say that staying clean requires a lifetime of vigilance--


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Hey karen.
Dr J is right. Need to be vigilant for years to come. If not rest of life
Counselling wouldn't be required for any long term. There is only so many 'skills' they can suggest.
I know a guy who was 10 years clean, super fit, doing well then back on?? Now back on low dose methadone. Geez, makes you cautious.

Dont worry about the NA people. Most are cool but some act like luke cult members. So self righteous about it. There are all sorts of ways to stay off and have a good life. I am so sick of addicts preaching their way as the only way. More self centred/narcissist addict attitude going on. Don't listen to them.

You sound good.
C.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:12 pm 
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Hello again C.... :D

I would NEVER tell anyone their way was not right, or that they had no way of being successful unless they did it MY way. What is wrong with people? I've said it before and will say it again now, I in my own opinion, personally believe each of us should gather as much information as we possibly can, think about it carefully, weigh the options along with the pluses and minuses, and then make an informed decision that best feels right. And if that doesn't work then try again with something else. You keep fighting, but you do it YOUR OWN WAY that YOU feel is right!

If you tell me your doing it a way I might not agree with I would never beat you down for it. Instead I would say congrats, best wishes, and you can make it work for YOU I'm sure. People need all the POSITIVE reinforcement they can get, and absolutely DO NOT need any kind of negative input from those that THINK they have all the answers. Know what I mean? If you offer me some suggestions then I will either try it out or not. Just don't ever tell me I HAVE to do it that way or else I will fail?

I've done therapy and counseling. Still seeing my therapist weekly to not only work through my addiction issues, but to also help with all the other crushing things that have happened to me recently. I have a great therapist, that truly understands ME, and provides me with valuable info each visit. I feel so much better when I leave her office.

I also attend NA meetings regularily. I go at least once per week, and if time allows I go 2-3 times as I really do enjoy those meetings, and most all of the people. I've worked the 12 steps and it has changed my life. I have a great sponsor that I turn to anytime I need her. She has bailed me out many times when I may have done something really stupid, like the other day for example. I had my sponsor, my therapist, my family and friends that surrounded me, and all of the fine, caring people here like you C that truly understood my intentions, and never judged me for a minute. I had an entire army of people working my corner, and I was able to pull out of it with little damage done, thank God!!!!

But in the end it all comes down to what each of us feels is necessary to achieve our own individual goals in this business. For me personally is was like you said about the switch going off. I just got sick and tired of using and wanted more than anyhting for it to all be over. Now THAT is a very powerful way to end the using and drug abuse in my opinion.

You can say meetings every single day are mandatory, counseling has to be sought out, and there are those that probably do require being on Suboxone/Subutex for the rest of their life or else they may be in trouble with their addiction. But when a person KNOWS they just don't even care to use again if the pills are laying right in front of them, or they are offered them constantly, it's such a huge motavational factor. To me, it's like a certain food I never liked or ate before. Just do not want to take any more drugs! Period!

Of course I'm not dumb enough, or so naive that I'm not aware this addiction can jump up and bite me when I least expect it to happen, again like the other day. I've had cravings hundreds of times, but NEVER like they were a few days ago. I was burning inside and didn't think I would survive it without using again. I have never been so frightened. I live day-to-day right now. I heard this said in one of my NA meetings, and say it to myself every single morning when I wake and get out of bed....

I may use next year, I may use next month, I may use next week too, I may use in a couple of days also, and I may even use tomorrow.....But there is no way in hell I am going to use TODAY!!!! Just not an option, and no matter what, I WILL NOT USE TODAY!!!! And that right there gets me through it. Works for me!

I don't know C, it is what it is I guess. I try to be one of the most positive members on this site. I try to provide everyone I post to words of comfort, helpful suggestions, and caring support along with a smile on my face. And it's working for me, and helps me to stay on the right path. It helps me to help others!

But all it takes to bring someone like me down is what has happened here recently. That switch is immediately turned the other direction. I just don't do "negative" well at all. I want no part of it. I want EVERYONE to be successful, and I want everyone to make what they deem "their way" to work for them in the end. My mom always says that "if Karen isn't happy, smiling and laughing, the world is in trouble". LOL.

Really, thank you C for your continued support. Your a true Gem and I really appreciate you being here for not only me, but for everyone else as well. Your one of the good ones that's for sure! :D

Hugs,
Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:42 pm 
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Hello Everyone,

Been a while since I last posted, but I have been trying to keep up reading as many posts as possible. I hope everyone is doing well and life is treating you good. I miss you guys!

I'll be beginning my 4th month (Dec. 2nd) since my last dose of subs and all opiates, except for a one-time 2mg dose of Subutex to curb some horrendous cravings I was having at the time. I have had none since, and for the most part doing ok. As has been said many times, life can be a real struggle, addict or not. I'm dealing with "life issues" as everyone does, and trying to get things in order. It's certainly a real test at times.

To continue with my post-sub reporting of symptoms in hopes it may help just one person, there basically haven't been any that I'm aware of. No hot/cold sweats of any kind, no RLS, no headaches, no body aches or pains, and I'm sleeping extremely well. To this point....NO PAWS! My experience on bupe therapy has to be one of the most positive ones anyone has ever had. I would be the first person to recommend bupe to anyone I felt it could benefit.

For a short re-cap to those that may not know, I was on 24mg of Suboxone at induction, and remained there for about 2 years. I felt the time had come to get off, but my doctor wanted me to remain on it. I spent the next year tapering without his knowledge down to 2mg and joined here looking for help to taper further. I received all the help and guidance I needed and tapered down by .25mg increments to .50mg and required emergency surgery. I never went back to the subs after that. Total of about 3 years on bupe therapy and extremely happy I was.

But I do have to wonder if there are symptoms I'm not aware of?

I found myself becoming too angry, much too angry at it is scaring me. I'm quick to confront or challenge someone....anyone. That's NOT me, not Karen at all if you really know me well. I hardly ever raise my voice to anyone, or ever get in any kind of argument, I instead try my best to avoid all conflicts if possible and go my own way. But ever since I finished the Suboxone and Subutex it seems my thought process has changed a bit. Now I am quick to jump in any kind of argument, and say things I can't believe I'm even saying. I say to myself, I know it's wrong to say that to this person, but I just don't really care.

To make certain everyone understands....I DO NOT BLAME THE SUB ONE LITTLE BIT FOR THE WAY I NOW FEEL!!!! I have to wonder if I've always been this way and my previous drug use/abuse has fogged me up so to speak? For years and years? I've been an addict for about 16 years and I'm 33 years old.

I'm just wondering if the drugs made me that happy, smiling, always positive, and extremely friendly person? Was that persona just fake? Is THIS actually the REAL Karen? Oh God, I certainly hope not! I don't like ME right now very much. Oh I'm still kind and considerate of others, but will also jump in your face if needed too where before I simply would not. My friends and family members are noticing too. I hear them talking, asking each other "why is Karen so angry"? "She would never talk/act like that before". Things like that are coming out now.

It actually started in a few of my last posts before this one, and I felt I needed a break from the forum to try and work things out. I am seeing (have been for quite some time) a counselor, and she has been very helpful in this regard. I've had a lot of emotional trauma in the past few weeks and she believes that is contributing to this. She also believes it will all work itself out, but I'm not so sure right now.

My thoughts are clear, my mind is alert for the first time in a long long time. Am I finding out what I'm really like right now? Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.

One more thing. I want to sincerely apologize to the member MovieMaker1 for my horrible comments. I went back and re-read my entire thread twice and was thoroughly disgusted and embarrassed by my actions and comments to him. I honestly believe he/you were only trying your very best to offer help in your own way. I hope you can somehow forgive me for the way I acted, and the manner in which I attempted to distance myself from you. I have no right to ask/tell anyone not to post on my thread. MovieMaker, I formally offer my truly sincere apology to you now and hope you can forgive me. If not I certainly understand and wouldn't blame you if you didn't. Your comments actually make perfect sense, even if I do disagree with part(s) of them. You have very right to say what you want within the site guidlines as everyone else does, including myself. I really do apologize to you now, and anyone else that was offended by any post I made. I'm sorry MovieMaker, really and truly sorry.

Sorry for the long post and the ramble. I know it was all over the place. Thanks to anyone that takes the time to read, and for any insight and response. I thank you in advance and wish EVERYONE the absolute best! I may not post too much, but will be reading. I need to find out who the REAL Karen really is?

May everyone have a safe and wonderful Thanksgiving. I have so much to be thankful for this year!

Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:13 pm 
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Let me be the first to say hello and that you have bn missed.I was worried somewhat. I do indeed know you have come aloug way.You should be very proud of yourselve. You asked a ? that i often ask myself. Is this me? Now? And im still on 4mgs. Idk. Anyway,time will tell and you keep fighting Karen.Your life will grow..
As for MrMovie, i love that kid. He is very outspoken and has been though much. He want people to live. Thats as far as ill go with that. I see him everyday. And life has its ups an downs but we all gota try to move forward...best to you Brownie....razor 55.....


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Hey karen
Releived to hear from you. Dont worry, the anger and short temper will subside. Dont forget we are the easiest going people while on opiates. Nothing phases us. Except not having opiates. For a while everything is fresh and raw with our emotions. They have been covered up or medicated away for years.
I'm the same way. Almost looking for confrontation sometimes. Then letting loose when i find it. I'm starting to calm down a bit though. Just a process i suppose.
Good to hear from you.
C.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:56 pm 
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Welcome back Karen! You may want to PM moviemaker just to make sure your words are read.

Your emotions being out of whack is completely normal. When you take a drug that changes the way your brain works, expect the opposite when not taking it. It's called the Swing Effect. Opiates make us mellow, sleep well, and numb pain. When abused for a period of time and then stopped, the reverse happens. You'll even out eventually but give it some decent time. We all know how long Bupe stays in the system and how long the side effects can last. Some say a year, some say two +. Over time you will be the person you're supposed to be. BTW, I learned that in Pharmacology 1 in college. That was over 24 years ago although I doubt the information has changed.

The good news is, we are all safe with you behind the computer! :twisted: That is, unless you're some kind of hacker who can find us!

Welcome back!

rule

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:26 am 
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Karen,

I'm so glad to see you back and posting! I totally understand that the process you are going through right now is extremely difficult and you are doing the right thing by concentrating on yourself. Even though we miss you, it's so important for you to figure this out for yourself.

I have heard from so many people who feel very emotionally volatile after they go off opiates. Raw almost. It does calm down after a while!. You may settle into a new pattern, but I doubt you will be ready for confrontation all the time down the road.

You take as much time as you need! You'll always have a home here.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:01 pm 
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Razor, C1234, Rule and Amy,

Sure is nice to hear from all of you! I really appreciate all the kind remarks and comments and hope all of you are doing well at this time! :D

In speaking with my therapist we had a surprising conversation, and she presented a unique suggestion. At first she suggested I consider the possibly of going on an anti-depressant to help "even out" my emotions and thought process. I sure did balk at that idea. I know that AD's really do help lots of people, but the thought of taking them just doesn't seem right to me, or for me. It's not something I really want to consider. At least right now anyway.

I'm NOT saying there is anything wrong with taking AD's at all. I'm just saying I don't know if they are right for ME is all. If I find they are the answer then I will have no problem beginning an AD regiman for as long as it takes.

She then mentioned that I might consider going back on the Subutex. She believes like lots of others that Suboxone/Subutex does have some AD qualities. Her point being that I was fine and doing very well emotionally while on bupe in the past 3 years, and that I might benefit being on it again? Not only that, it would help curb any potential future cravings. She asked me to really give that some serious thought which I have done, and continue to do.

I asked her if it seemed right to go back on a rather strong opiate (subs) to hopefully cure my emotional issues given how long and hard I had worked to get free of them? That or wait it out and hope I snap out of it? Tough call for sure. Give that more thought too was her answer.

It totally and completely shocked me that she would even bring that bupe option up. But it DID get me to really thinking about the possibility it could be one answer to the problem.

Is an extended time, or lifetime on bupe the answer to the problem? We all know it's wonderful and amazing for withdrawals and cravings.....
But is it the right option for issues other than those?
Could it SOMETIMES be the BEST option?
For some pain issues?
For depression and emotional issues?
Is it the best choice for an addict?
How about a non-addict? (maybe crazy, but just thinking is all)
Hmmm....maybe it is?

So my question is: Just how much of a "fog" is a person in that's on Suboxone/Subutex Therapy?
Lots, a little bit, or none at all? Hmmm?
Do we REALLY have clear thoughts while on the sub, or is our thought control and patterns a little bit covered up?
Are our emotions "controlled" while on bupe?
Could bupe really help with emotional issues such as I'm having right now?
Instead of taking a "true" AD?
Which might be the better choice?

Another question I have is:
Are my current thoughts and actions related to my own personal trauma that I've had during the last couple months or so?
Or is it because I'm now off every mind-altering medication including alcohol for the first time in about 16 years?

I read here recently someone mentioning (not exactly word for word, but close I think) why not take bupe like you would a blood pressure med, and other drugs for extended periods of time, including for life? That really got me to thinking.....

So it leads me to ask the question: Is Suboxone/Subutex, and Buprenorphine in general, really and truly a miracle drug? Could that possibly be accurate in some cases? Do we actually have a tremendous drug in our midst and not fully aware of it due to the lack of long-term studies?

I would appreciate any thoughts on the matter.

I'm also just thinking out loud and putting it in writing for future reading/looking back on by me. It really helps to get thoughts, ideas, and questions out at times like this, at least for me it does. Something about getting it all out in the open is very theraputic.

One final thing and I do apologize for the length of this post. I took my hurting kitty cat to the Vet the other day as she is really hurting. She's old and just won't jump up on things like she previously would. After x-rays (yes he took x-rays) and blood work the diagnosis was arthritis. He said she would benefit from some pain meds and gave me 6 pre-filled syringes of a drug for my cat. Can you guess what that drug was? I was absolutely STUNNED that it was pure Buprenorphine!!!! Each 0.2mg dose was to be given under my cats tongue on an "as needed" basis!!! I just about fell on the floor! I'm telling the homest truth and I would have never believed it. I asked the Vet if he knew humans also took that particular drug and he replied that he had never heard of it!!! I also swear that within 3 hours of giving my kitty the bupe she jumped up on the sofa as she would have done months ago.

A miracle drug for humans AND animals????? :D

Hope everyone has a safe and wonderful day tomorrow!

Thanks,
Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:36 pm 
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Karen, those are all really good questions. I'm glad your therapist has you thinking about it because there is no simplistic and easy answer.

Everyone here could give you their opinion on any and all of your questions, but I don't think it ends up mattering what everyone else thinks. I know people who almost seem to have an allergy to sub and react to it terribly. They will have a different set of answers to your questions than someone for whom sub is a miracle cure. There are people here who haven't been able to figure out anything else that relieves their very real depression. And there are also folks who feel drugged and sleepy all of the time.

I think what I'm trying to say is that the only important opinions on these issues are your own. Is your quality of life better or worse on suboxone? How much suboxone/subutex does it take to kick your depression and keep the cravings at bay?

It's hard to know what the right answers are. I don't know about you, but sometimes I wish I had a magical fairy who would tell me the right path. Then I wouldn't have to second guess myself all the time! Lol! But you're a smart woman, Karen. I trust that you'll come to your right conclusion on your own.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Hey Karen,

You said you had no PAWS to speak of a few posts up, but it sure sounds like you're dealing with PAWS. Irritability, anger, depression.. :wink: PAWS, my dear. It's hard to know what is your normal personality pre-drugs and what is short term PAWS, but it fits the PAWS bill to a "T." I dealt with it too.. Although, I didn't fully experience it until about 5 months in. A year later, I am now fully free of those whacky ups & downs but it took a while to let my body level out on it's own. Chances are yours will too if you give it time, or if you believe you have more deep rooted, unaddressed issues, you may want to take a stronger approach than just waiting it out.

For me, suboxone is not a miracle drug for life. I had too many negative side effects, but as Amy pointed out, some people only experience good effects. If I only had good effects from it, I wouldn't have had any problem using it for a longer period or indefinitely.

Like was pointed out, you need to do what's right for you, but don't give in to the first signs of a bumpy road. You were on suboxone for 3 years and got unusually lucky in terms of acute withdrawals, but this is all par for the course. Your body is learning how to deal with itself and life again. There will be a bit of a learning curve, it doesn't happen immediately. That's usually what PAWS is.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:18 am 
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Also wanted to add, my doctor suggested getting on an AD just prior to my jump, in anticipation of this.. I am guessing. I didn't feel depressed at the time and didn't want to start another medication so I said no. I'm also glad that I didn't start an AD during paws, due to the feelings being temporary, but I was not severely depressed. If I had been, I would have considered it. Again, it's hard to know what is temporary and what is a permanent/ chronic issue in this stage. So only you can know the severity and what your needs are. I just wanted to share my experience because I know it's hard to see the forest for the trees in this process, sometimes.

How's your pregnancy going? You must have had your 20 week anomaly scan by now.. What was it like? I have mine next week. A little nervous, I'll admit. Please fill me in on any details.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:09 pm 
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Home after a wonderful day with family. It was definitely a long day, but a very good one.

Amy- Thank you for your response. I do realize everyone has their own ideas about bupe therapy, and must do what they feel is best for them in the end. I really didn't expect to get answers to every question. I was just putting my thoughts out there to see if anyone else just happened to be in the same position and could relate a little bit? And to just get some things out of my head.

For the record, I don't personally believe sub is any kind of miracle cure for addiction. I just think it's a great TOOL to use to fight addiction with.

Thank you Amy for taking the time to respond. Your comments are fully understood and appreciated!

Hugs,
Karen xoxo


Tiny- Thank you also for your comments. What you say makes perfect sense to me. I always thought of PAWS as being hot/cold sweats, headaches, and maybe RLS and that was it. I never even considered it being my aggravation, anger, and what appears to be depression issues. Just never even thought of it that way and it certainly does make sense!

I hear what your saying about taking my time to get a full picture of the problems and not jumping into anything. Great advice and I thank you for it. I think I will be taking your advice and waiting a bit to see what happens. After all - I'm not that messed up! (my opinion :lol: )

Baby is kicking realy good all the time and I'm singing and talking to her all the time. I'm over half way there and getting really excited! Feeling good from any baby issues right now.

I refused the anomaly scan Tiny. I'm about 23 weeks right now and my doctor wanted me to have that scan about 2 weeks ago. I was so afraid there may be some kind of issue that had a 1% chance of being negative and I would have blown it all out of proportion and stressed myself silly over it until the baby is born. I just didn't want to hear any kind of bad news right now and it would have put me into deeper depression if that's what it is? I just rolled the dice and will wait and see what happens at birth. I'm doing all the right things so I believe my chances of a beautiful, healthy baby are good! I pray for that everyday. Thanks for asking and please let me know how you and baby are doing also! I hope things are going great for you. Hows the new home? I hope things are calming down for you now a bit. Bet it's beautiful! Congratulations again.

Thanks again Tiny for your comments, and thank you again too Amy. I truly value both you ladies responses very much and always appreciate any advice you both offer. I'm very happy you both provided some input!

Hugs,
Karen xoxo


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:49 pm 
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Karen,

That's the single most important scan of the whole pregnancy. It's where the doctor will check the organs of the fetus, most importantly for things that are treatable. They measure the femur, etc. The majority of fixable heart defects are found during this scan. I didn't even think one could deny it. I've just never even heard of that in any pregnancy chat rooms or anything. I would think the NT scan would be the scan to decline, this one is actually really important. Just throwing that out there because you really surprised me with this.

Glad you had a nice day today. Hope you feel better soon.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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