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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 4:11 pm 
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Hi all,

Just got back from seeing my sub doctor. I asked him if he could switch me to the generic of Subutex. He wouldn't do it.

He gave me a mini lesson on the ingredients of suboxone vs subutex (like I didn't already know that). I told him I've never been an IV user. Then he went on about how subutex is only used in close-control settings - like hospitals and prisons!? WTF? Then he admitted that he had heard it would be going generic. I corrected him and told him that it already had, a few months ago. Then it was on to the talk of diversion because of it not having the naloxone!

Anyhoo, long story short (too late?), I told him if he was that concerned about diversion then I'd just stay on the suboxone. This the same doc I've had since May (but I've been on sub for 15 months) and he's not given me one single drug test.

I'm not upset about spending the extra money - my insurance covers both, although it would be cheaper. But I must admit I am a little miffed. He made it pretty obvious that he thinks I have no knowledge about the medication I take daily. And I don't know why he threw diversion in my face, as I've had no problems whatsoever since I've been seeing him. Based on his statements, it actually sounds like I knew more about it than he did, at least when it comes to the generic. Plus I'm almost offended because it sounded like he doesn't trust me. If he doesn't, why isn't he drug testing me?

Oh well, such is life, right? I gave it a shot.
Just wanted to share this odd little experience since we're probably going to see more and more people switching to the generic version. This should be interesting.

Melissa

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:00 pm 
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I ran into the same thing with my doc. I really don't think that you or I (specifically) have anything to do with it. I think that as a whole, drug abusers are not a very trustworthy bunch. As much as I hate to say it or admit it, we pretty much earned the title or label that we now have by our prior actions. While I don't really think that having Narcan in the product really makes a huge difference, it clearly is a "warm and fuzzy" for the politicians and law enforcement. I actually have a bigger problem with the price that is charged for Suboxone. I can sort of see high prices when a drug company actually discovers or invents a new drug. When they actually create or invent something like Lexipro or Viagra or something, I can see them commanding a large $ for it. But in this case, all they did is combined two well known, patent-less medications into a single pill and then get $7+ for it. That's a different topic though.

In any event, I honestly don't think your doctor is treating you any different than he will treat anyone else in his practice. I don't think he is trying to talk down to you either. I think he was just trying to provide his reasoning for his decision. Many patients are not very well informed about their medications. He had no way of knowing that you were a patient who actually does. What it will take is some of his colleagues making the switch or some studies that come out and show that switching off of Suboxone to a generic is a safe move and does not increase diversion. Until that happens, I really fear that Suboxone is going to remain the standard best practice when it comes to take-home medication for addicts.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 6:16 pm 
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Don, you are 100% right in everything you said. It's not that I got pissed off, just a little ticked, but not in his presence. I'm glad to know others are going through similar things.

You're also quite right in that as addicts we did "make a name for ourselves", so to speak. I should know that already as my husband and I are still working on trust issues.

I really appreciate you saying the things that you did. Frankly, I think I needed to hear them. Sometimes I have knee-jerk reactions that are unreasonable. Not nearly as unreasonable as when I was in throws of active addiction, but sometimes unreasonable nonetheless. Sometimes I forget I did this to myself, for lack of a better way to put it.

Thanks again, Don for showing me the rational side to this.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:08 am 
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Well.......we made a name for ourselves using opiates not selling them and if you aren't an IV drug user then it doesn't matter. A true addict doesn't give away or sell our drugs because we take them all. I never share.

Anyhow...I don't think it is YOU either. I think the docs are all still skeptical about prescribing to begin with and I think they do not wish to call any attention to themselves. I think prescribing subutex in their mind will. A lot of the docs are about as "in the closet" on their prescriptions of it as we are about taking it. If you read the article written by Dr. Junig most recently he mentions the "hiss" from providers when suboxone is mentioned. Suboxone doctors are already getting that "hiss" from their peers and they are looked down upon. I also think they have been under a LOT of pressure for what has happened with methadone and oxycontin and they feel SAFE knowing they aren't even risking putting themselves out there to be responsible for suboxone becoming a street drug and a drug of abuse.

Hopefully there will soon be a generic suboxone but until then us pioneers will pay the price. But please.....if they get a generic suboxone can they please not change the flavor. The flavor works for me and I don't think I could tolerate some bitter nasty thing. Or if they could make it taste like that liquid tussionex (cough syrup) because that stuff is so yummy I would drink it just for the taste :-)

You will receive a price break soon...we hope


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:06 am 
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Melissa: I agree with above. I also highly, highly doubt it is 'you', but instead it is 'us' addicts in general. I have to say that donh and jackcrack explained that rather well.
You are not alone Mel, because I tried that not too long ago with my current doctor. I will pay whatever it takes for the Suboxone for know, but I decided to ask for the generic Subutex. His practice is in an area where IV is rather common. I also was only with him for a few months (2-3 maybe??) when I asked for the switch. I should have waited till I had at least a year with him to ask. I have been on suboxone for a few months before I came to this current doctor, with an asshole doctor starting in middle of June so my whole 'suboxone treatment' was not with my current doctor. ANYWAYS.... He like many others (your doctor probably included) just feel more secure writing the script for Suboxone instead of Subutex (generic or not). I think if ones like you and I can continue to prove that we are good patients and serious about our recovery's, that eventually the Dr.'s will come around, hopefully!


Jackcrack:
I too actually 'enjoy' the taste of the Suboxone. Many do not from what I have read. I know that I would definitely get used to the generic Subutex if I was saving enough money, but I would and still do prefer the taste of Suboxone (that lemony-limey flavor).






Take Care!!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:12 am 
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Thanks for the replies.

Just had to say that unlike Jackcrack and BigRed, I do not like the taste of suboxone. As I used to say as a child (don't know where I picked up Spanish at that age): "Caca"!

ROFL.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:06 pm 
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What happened with me was getting trust with my doctor...I mentioned several months ago about switching to generic subutex and he wouldn't do it. Over the holidays he wrote me a script for 6 weeks due to him taking time off. He said I expect no calls from you. When I went to my appointment in January they drug tested me immediately. I met with the doc and he asked to see if I had the 2 suboxone tablets I should have left. I showed him 8..............He smiled and congratulated me....I didn't think this was a big deal because I never lied to him since day 1. He said are you ready to switch to generic subutex? I said I would be appreciative if I could becuase of the cost and just like that he wrote the scritpt. I grew to love the taste of suboxone...I acutually liked it. The generic subutex taste terrible the cost savings is worth it and it works great. After the first couple of days it worked exactly like suboxone. My only worry now is I am moving about 600 miles away from my doc next month and only hope that I can find a doctor that will continue to prescribe me subutex instead of suboxone going forward. It is clear everyone's doctor is different. I only hope to find a doctor like the one I got. Don't give up doctor's are being educated more and more on this drug. I believe that me giving this website to the doctor and developing a trusting relationship with him helped me get on subutex. Good luck.........


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:31 pm 
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Do you think that the doctors dont want to give you generic because they have special interest in Rickets? I'm not really sure if this happens but I have always wondered if pharmicutical companies get docters to push their drugs. you know giving them a boness. or sending them on a cruise. just a thought.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:29 am 
Remember, these Suboxone doctors are constantly under threat of being audited by the DEA. I'm sure it looks much better for them to be prescribing Suboxone than "just" plain-old Subutex. Remember those letters the DEA sent all the Suboxone doctors in early 2009 threatening to audit and shut down their practices if they couldn't account for every single pill they had ever prescribed? Even though they had to apologize, the DEA and law enforcement in general can't stand the fact that these doctors and we patients are allowed to legally have access to Suboxone and Subutex. It drives them crazy! So they are going to do everything in their power to intimidate the doctors, including pushing the myth that Suboxone is "safer" and somehow doesn't have street value because of the narcan.
And yes, OMG, my doc talks to me like I'm a 3 year old. I'm absolutely sure I know more about Suboxone and buprenorphine than he ever will, but I won't ever let him know that. Luckily, my dose is so low that even without insurance my Suboxone would only cost about $100 a month. My advice? Try to get your daily dose as low as possible before you try to switch to Subutex. You'd be surprised how little buprenorphine you really "need", as compared to the dose the doctor may be prescribing you. My body couldn't tell a difference between 16 mg and 4 mg, and I never knew until I experimented with the dose over a month. I save myself a hell of a lot of money now.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:51 am 
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Hey guys!
Sorry, this wont be one of my touchy feely posts... I think it also depends on which state and which office you go to. I have been on generic subutex from the start. I went to a very nice office in west palm beach run by 4 docs. they are not hurting for money and mostly see wealthy women who became hooked after their doctor prescribed them percs for post plastic surgery pain! LOL! My doctor did not even mention being on suboxone, he was the one who said to me there is a generic and will save you money. Perhaps you can print out some literature from the generic subutex website or ask the pharmacy for a copy of the pi (product insert). if you have no history of IV drug use then advocate for yourself in an organized way. do a cost analysis, show the product info and how the naloxone is not imperative to your treatment if you are not abusing the bupe. we are all addicts, but we need to still stand up for ourselves as individuals and the more facts you have in front of you, them more likely your doctor will listen to what you have to say! good luck!

MW


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:03 pm 
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Great idea about bringing info about generic bupe to my next appointment. I was checking with my insurance for the savings of going to the generic, but I was in for a surprise. My prescription insurance does NOT cover generic bupe or even brand name Subutex. I couldn't believe it!

Oh, well, the savings was a great idea, but for now I'll be sticking to the Suboxone.

I really appreciate all the ideas and support you guys have given me on the subject. As per usual, you guys are GREAT!!

Thanks -
Mel

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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 Post subject: I also tried
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:29 pm 
Well, at my last appointment i brought up the idea of switching to subutex. Of course i was hit with an immediate, "it has a high potential for abuse." Totally aggravating. I have been on suboxone for 10 months now with not one slip up. I havent ever been an IV drug user. I take a drug test every appointment. Have passed every time. I can understand it only so far. The price i pay for my medication is utterly rediculous. It is way better than using but it seems like a person could at least gets some good behaviour points or something,lol. I fill out the paper work for the free suboxone program next appointment so thats a big plus. So, i guess i can consider this problem put on hold for a bit. Anyways, just wanted too say that you are not alone on this subject. Have a great day being clean!! ~PEACE~


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