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 Post subject: Tried so hard! :(
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:56 pm 
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I do want to thank all of you who have been there for me and the shared stories and the support. This site has been great and I do plan to continue posting and sharing here.

I was unable to cope with the depression, anxiety and the feeling that I had no soul :cry: . This morning marked day forty since my last dose of sub (2mg). I feel that I had tried everything in my power to push forward but was feeling that I had no desire to continue living in the state I was in. I had a long talk with my physician, husband, mom, dad, older kids, and friends. Given the state I was in, it was my decision to go back on the lowest dose I needed to function. I am so upset with myself and feel that I failed, crashed and burned :x ! Given the state and situation of my life at this point, the consensus of those around me and my doctor also thought it best to go back on for now. My doctor is going to set me up with a psychiatrist who specializes in Subtex, Suboxone and buprenorphine. Since I was on 32mg for over eight years that may of course contributed to the intense depression and anxiety I was facing. I did taper over the last year and was down to 2mg for about a month before I jumped. Dr. says it was much too fast of a taper after eight years of such a high dose.

Over the last forty days many things in my life were neglected and it was affecting my marriage and our family stability. I am so sad but know that things in my life need to be at a different stage. I do think if I had to go to work each day that might have kept me on the move and maybe helped some. I was just at home and was supposed to start the last leg of my degree on January 7th, I tried but was still in withdraw and was unable to focus on reading and writing anything. So I had to push my classes back which would be next week and I knew I was still not at a place mentally conductive to learning :?.

So, unfortunate for me I have gone back on at 2mg, hopefully that will keep me where I can function once again in my life, I certainly do not want to go any higher :x. I really jumped into jumping off without much of a plan, I figured that after three weeks I would be over the w/d and able to get back to school and be productive. Even after everything I had read here and researched there, I thought certainly it will not be so bad. Well so much for that :x .

I feel like such a failure and am disappointed in myself really bad. I do not want to be on this for life, it scares the hell out of me, but I also want to enjoy my life, finish my degree, get a better job and watch my daughter graduate. All of this I want to do with a smile and feel the happiness that has been in my life always. I am praying very hard and I know that God will lead me to the path of coming off this medication when the time is right.

All I can think at this point is why why why did it have to be opiates? How did I get here, what the hell was I thinking! Ten years ago when I became addicted I had no idea whatsoever what I was heading for. I cannot go back in time, but if I could I would never have taken that one damn pill :evil:

This is and will continue to be the hardest thing I have ever faced in my life. Is there anyone else out there who has tried so hard like this and ended up going back? I know some of you have come so far and that is wonderful, I do not think I am a weak person but this I was unable to beat right now :cry: .

Cam


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:22 pm 
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:(

Cam I can't even pretend if I went through the state you were in for fourty days I'd be knee deep in suboxone and probably Roxys. Absolutely feel staying on 2mg for awhile and eventually jumping from there would be a way better way to go about it. I'm unhappy to read this, but I can't blame you. If I neglected my family feeling like that for 40 days I would have given in way sooner.

You were one of the first people to support me and one of the first to make me believe I could get through it. Feel good about this though Cam, you made it 40 days through some of the toughest withdrawals I've read about on here. You're more than strong, youre an absolute champion. I'll be around if you ever need to talk. I've appreciated everything you've said to me throughout both of our little experiments.

Cam I wish you the absolute best. You're not weak, you're one of the strongest people ive read about on here.

New tactic, smarter tactic. You're well on your way to sobriety. You've got the heart of a lion, don't you dare feel any other way either.

WTBF


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:24 pm 
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Please, please, please stop beating yourself up! You are not a failure! You gave stopping an excellent try. 40 days! You have endured pain, depression, anxiety, yucky withdrawal symptoms, etc. You are a warrior!

Would you treat anyone else but yourself this way? Would you be hard on a friend or cousin or stranger for having to stay on a drug to control their bi-polar disorder? Why is this any different?

When you see this new psychiatrist, please look into why you have unrealistic expectations of yourself. I know I don't know you very well, but it hurts me to see how little compassion you have for yourself.

Who is a failure? Someone who went way beyond their comfort zone to attempt something that is a damn lofty goal, or someone who never tried in the first place?

Cammie, you are a good person, who is in a life-long fight that many people lose. Please focus on how far you've come from your using days and give yourself a break.

Amy

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 Post subject: Tried
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:31 pm 
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Want To Be,

Thanks for the words. I guess I just feel like I could have done something better! I am taking this as a learning situation at this point. It is certain that I need a new plan and to go about this in a different way. I just can't beleive a drug was made that can help a person stay off really bad things and help get their life together, but then present hellish agony that is worse than the w/d you would have had from the other stuff. In some ways sub saved me, I think, but I had ONE 6 month addiction to opiates, went to rehab ( my choice) and was but on subs. I never had a chance to try and stay clean, not one chance. I had pain so the doc said 32mg of subs, you will be great. HAHA

Amy,

I guess I have always been the one who has to keep things together. Have been mom, wife, bread winner, college student while single mom and always get called from friends who need advice or help. I guess I feel like I should have been able to do this. I sure do need to have a bit of therapy and learn to cope somehow. I just wanted to do it and be free and have everything so great, but it kicked my ass bad! I suppose I need to learn from this and go another way in the future. At least at this point my doctor is telling me to just stay on as low a dose as possible. So I can function at least. I am certainly going to wait till I have my degree finished which should be the end of June. I feel so much better after taking a dose today, it is creepy how much of a difference that little bit makes in how you feel physically and emotionally. Crazy I say.

Thank both of you for the kind words. I might look into starting a sub support group where I live. Like AA but not. Having someone to talk to is something I need and am sure other do too.

Cam


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 Post subject: Hey Cam
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:09 pm 
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Sorry I didnt stay in touch since school started last week it has been so touch and go. I screwed up the depression and lack of motivation and energy after 30 days was too much. I am going back on the sub too I think. I feel for you something really bad happened today. I will e-mail you later. But given what happened my mental state is such that Im afraid I will slip again. Dont beat yourself up. you have made such progress. I mean you have made it from 32 to 2 mg in a little over a month. .25mg barely keeps me but it did before i slipped. But I think I need to go back to at least 1 mg for awhile. You did good really good. keep fighting


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:04 am 
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Cammie,

I'll msg you later when I have more time, but wanted to add my 2 cents. You ARE a warrior! This shit is unbelievable--it's great reading about folks who jump off at whatever dose, and feel great...but that's not our experience, is it? It is so hard, so empty, so rough on our relationships and our spirits.

You are doing good things. You are talking to people. You have a support network near and far. You are taking care of yourself and your family without using. This isn't a "loss" in ANY way. You are winning this battle, baby!

Go easy on yourself, and STAY IN TOUCH!

~Jo


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:44 am 
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Cammie, you have nothing to be ashamed of, like has already been said, you are a warrior!!! Getting back on Suboxone doesn't mean you're weak, it means you're protecting your sobriety.

Now you know that 2mg is too high of a dose for you to jump off of. Next time you're ready to quit Suboxone, taper lower than 2mg. You could even shoot for .05mg like hopespring did.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:47 am 
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One again I feel blessed and hopeful having all of you here who understand and offer much needed support.

Scorpio, I can certainly relate to your desire to go back on sub. It was so hard for me to give up the fight. After forty days I had wrongly believed I would be up and running, finishing my college classes and looking forward to getting that degree I have worked so hard for. After missing the first session of school starting put me just a bit behind, but the next session is starting in about a week and I knew that I was not going to be able to focus let alone write a few 10 page report. That would have added another 6 months and totally mess up any financial help I was getting. My family and life seemed to be falling apart and I felt powerless to get everything back on track. I guess at this time in my life it was not in the cards to stay off. As far as your comment about something bad happening it was Saturday and Sunday. Feel free to send me a message :) I knew this afternoon that I needed to go back on or end up in a long term inpatient. The last forty days was a kick in the ass. I was so sure that after the acute w/d was over that I would be able to function. At that time, wha I figured "it can't be that bad". What a shock, it was forty days and I was losing it bad.

It seems you are having a tough time also. I knew after thirty days how I felt. The psychological aspects were totally brutal, I was not able to cope with that. The lack of energy, motivation and serious anxiety along with a depression so deep it scared me just too much. My life was coming unglued and I was not able to cope. At this point, when the time comes to stop I will have to have plan and even into an inpatient program. So I am taking this experience as a trial run. I wil have to see. The way I look at it, if you are totally losing it,you have to do what is right for you. I choose to go back on since I felt my world was unraveling. If things are bad in a huge way for you then take whatever step is best for you.

Jolene,
Thanks for the uplifting words, it is just amazing to me how this drug is so tough to stop. Maybe if I had a job to go to and was able to focus on something rather than sitting at home. As I said I missed the first semester of my college classes and only have a about a week before the second part of classes start and the state I was in I would not have the mindset to do it. So right now I am going to stay on the least amount that will allow me to function. One day at a time right now. How are you doing, it seems by your post that you are dealing well? I hope that you are able to push through. Keep me infomed if you would, I would take any advice that helped you to get through it.

Romeo,

Once again I am grateful that you have helped me during this time. Just having people who can relate and know what I am facing and feeling helps me to keep my chin up. Like you said I must make a plan to wean lower and hope that I can find a way that will not be brutal. It just pisses me off that I had to go back on, but like you mentioned it is better then facing a relapse that would lead to bad things. I will certainly taper very slow and have a plan. Right now my doc wants me to take the lowest dose I can, enough to feel alright and be able to deal with life. I am a bit upset, I so desired to stay off but I guess now is not the time. This whole idea gave me a desire to maybe write a book. Well see about that :D . I am grateful that you shared your experience and encouraged me along the way. I plan to stay in touch here, I would say this forum is my NA meeting and support group. Now that I feel better I need to clean my house up, its bad! Thanks again, you really helped me along. I need to work on forgiving myself and not holding on to the feeling that I am a failure about the sub. So right now one day at a time. And I am certain that you know this one......God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. I might try to work myself up and go to a meeting. Maybe having a sponser would be a good thing for me. Another idea I was kicking around is to start a sub meeting in the area where I live. There has to be people taking sub around here that would like and maybe even benefit knowing they are not alone. Jut an idea. Thank you again for all the support and sharing your experience with me. I do think MAYBE if I had a job that forced me to get out of bed my mind would have been busy intead of being at home dwelling on how bad I felt. I did try many supplements, acupuncture and massage with no real improvement. I think I had maybe two days where I felt a tiny bit better, but the times that happened, the next weeks on end would be so bad. The depression and anxiety were overwheling.
So now I have to deal with all the things I neglected and get back on track. One day at a time is holding for me. Like my husband says, "something will be". I am not going to dwell on this situation but learn from it and eventually all the pieces will fit.
Cam


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:38 pm 
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Cammie, you already know I ended up going back on Sub after being off for 6 months. So I'M sure as hell not going to judge you. I don't think anyone here will. We all know this is the fight of our lives, and it's not a direct path. There are a lot of twists and turns, and yes, setbacks along the way. So give yourself a break.
One thing that I would like to suggest, is that you probably don't need 2mg at this point. In fact you're probably either high as a kite or puking right now :) . If you're still set on going off, and not going back on maintenance, then I would stick with no more than 1mg. Even 0.5 might be enough. Just my non-medical, non-professional opinion.
Anyway, I hope you are feeling better, and please do not waste one more second beating yourself up! Keep your eye on the prize. You are a super strong individual. You WILL get there!
Lilly


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:19 pm 
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I'm almost to month 6 and it's hard. Really hard some days. Not so much because I have any desire to go out and get high but sometimes I just really wish I had the motivation that I had before. I sleep fine and I don't have an anxiety but sometimes it's hard to just get out of bed and shower. Doing the mundane everyday stuff is shitty a lot of the time but I'm wading through it hoping it will eventually pass.

Also, I've noticed that severe depression kicks in right before my period every month. I meant to post on this. I researched it because it took me by surprise (never having noticed it before) and it makes sense. Women's serotonin levels crash right before their cycles restart (thanks to the hormone changes.) My personal belief is that my serotonin levels are already a bit low so I have a hard time dealing with the quick drop during my periods. Anyway, it always goes away CD1 or CD2. (sorry for getting side tracked.. just something to think about f you're a woman)

Hang in there, we've all been there.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:05 pm 
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I must admit i didnt read the entire thread, but I think I have the general idea -

Hey, look on the bright side of this. You were off for well over a month, that's great. That means that you dont need as much to function as you did before (most likely), so if you decide to get off again, youre already at a lower dose. As far as I can see you're on the right track.

The whole "i'm a failure" thing is all or nothing thinking, and is simply not true. Cognitive therapy is good for changing thinking patterns like that.


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 Post subject: Dosing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:41 am 
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Lilly,
Once I realized that I needed to get back on the sub I called my doctor in the middle of the afternoon on Sunday. For some psychological reason I needed him to tell me it was ok, he has worked with me having the patience of a saint. He did advise me to stay as low as possible. I started by taking 1mg waited an hour and was not feeling a difference. I took another 1mg and after thirty minutes they both seemed to kick in. I would not say I was super high, but felt at peace and sad at the same time. You are certainly correct about the dosing being able to be lower. I only took 1mg today, in the afternoon and plan to try .5mg tomorrow and maybe even skip a couple days here and there. Hopefully this will work. It is just frustrating as heck that a little pill can either keep us upright or tip our world on its axis. As you mentioned I am working on not dwelling over the whole thing. I did want to ask you if you had any physical reaction such as extreme itching over your body when you went back on. After about two hours into taking the dose my whole body started itching in an extreme way, I mean itching everywhere. I thought I was going mad. I have been taking benadryl and using an anti-itch lotion and powder. It is still driving me nuts. I just had a friend bring me some vistaril. I hope it helps. Since today was a holiday the physicans were closed. If it is still bad in the morning I might just go to urgent care.I noticed my ankles were swelling just a little bit, weird huh? Yes I am trying to look on the positive side, one day at a time. Thanks for the encouragement, it helps to not feel so alone through all of this.

Eric,
I have always been one to think all or nothing. I know I need to work on that. I am actually getting set up with a counselor and a group that focuses on addictions. I suppose as an addict I need to have a wide circle of support.

Tiny,

Six months is awesome but I am sure it has seemed like an eternity. It is wonderful that you are pushing forward despite the challenge of feeling down and overwhelmed too. You should be so proud of yourself, I am certainly sending kudos your way :D I think being at home, not working made it harder for me, I spent too much time and energy thinking about how awful I felt.
During my attempt to stay off, after jumping off at 2mg the days went by so slowly. I was also at home alone most of the time, I quit working the end of October to finish my degree I only have five classes to go. I missed the start of this semester since I was in a bad mind set and unable to comprehend what I read. I plan to dose as low as possible, just enough so I can finish school, find a better job and somewhere in the middle of all that I will devise a plan to be free from sub.

cam


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:38 pm 
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I went to the Sub Dr. today a new dr not my pain management specialist because she doesnt deal with dependency addiction issues. Anyway story is the Dr. said that I never should have quit taking the sub in December cold turkey and that I needed to take 24mg a day. I had been on between 2=4mg or so day from my pain management dr trying to get all of the methadone out of my system. Anyway I am really confused and feel something s very off. He said that I wasnt sick because of suboxone withdrawal. He said the reason I was so sick was because of the years I spent on methadone and other opiates prior to getting on suboxone this past august. for those that dont know I went cold turkey off December17th a monday. This new Sub Dr. said I need to be on sub for 60 percent of the time I was on other opiates to allow my brain to heal. He also said that I wasnt on enough of a sub dose. I got along fine for the most part on 4mg a day for several months. He is saying that my opiate receptors he said there were 4 MU receptor a mu-a a mu-b etc. anyways he kept me there for over 2 hours and said Igot sick from methadone and everything else that if I had just stayed on suboxone and allowed my brain to heal i would be fine....i mean this is not what i have learned from reading the boards and this forum. I was off of sub for almost a month and had no drive. I was so afraid to take suboxone because i didnt sleep for almost 12 days that i started taking 20mg of hydrocodone a day...i was so afraid to take sub again. I am freaking out now. I havent filled my script. I am going to call my pain management dr monday and ask for a referrall. There is no way in my head why i should be on anymore than2-4mg of sub a day. he wanted me to take 8mg it seemed like right there if he had lhis way. I took 3mg yesterday and 4mg of sub today 2mg in the morning and 2mg after the appointment I was shaking so bad. I want my life back and I want to taper slowly off the sub.....But he would only write me a scrip for 8mg strips and wants me to take them 3 times a day. I have never taken more than4-5mg of sub in a day.....I feel like I was buying a used car or a bill of goods but with my life....I am not a Dr. I know he is....but I think I need to see a new Dr. This Dr. was so insistent and pushy and basically told me I would have to be on subs for at least 4 years. Than they gave me a drug test and said that if I couldnt afford it which I cant right now because it will cost $175 not to pay it and they will mark it down to $99 and than if i dont pay it they will send me 2 bills but that it wont go on my credit report or goto collections....I mean everything was very odd..Im so confused but by taking 4mg of sub today after taking 2mg yesterday and taking 20mg of norco the past week....I am so upset if I got my tolerance down so low and worked so hard i just couldnt handle the depression and pain and lack of motivation...honestly i wouldnt have been able to go back to school.....Im sorry i am rambling i am so upset....i need to find a DR who will listen to me and help me rather than just write me script.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:03 pm 
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I truly understand everyone feeling about go in back to Subs. I was on it for 4 years, when I realize that my last 2 years, I was taken Suboxone just cause i was afraid of the withdrawals. So I did it!!, made a plan and stuck with it!! In 3 months from 8mg to 2mg, and from 2mg to "crumbs" to nothing!! Requires one thing: "Discipline", 40 days later, I feel good!! Yes there is a mental part after the physical symptoms. But you know what!! That is the journey! that is the voyage to recovery.
I am 50 years old, just tired of fucking chasing the dragon!!! (Dragon = Subs)
Best of Luck!!


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 Post subject: You Are A Hero
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Cam,

For anyone to go as long as you did with those kind of symptoms is a hero to me. Jeesh, I tried to get off my Effexor and with only one day of depression it scared me enough to next time taper more slowly. Same thing with Sub. If you would have asked anyone here if you should jump off after knowing your history and taper schedule, everyone would probably have said, no, don't do it, taper down slower and lower.

So for now all you can do is stabilize and not think about it for awhile. One good thing, your body is now used to going down to very low doses and it should be a lot easier next time if you follow a proper taper plan.

Have you asked yourself "what if I'm on this medication for the rest of my life?" Most of us have and I can say for me that it could be a possibility. It was my doctor who said it was no big deal if I'm on it for life and that stuck with me. Not that it applies to you, I was just making a point. If and when you decide to try again you'll have a much better system to succeed.

I'm glad to hear you are back to your old self.

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 Post subject: Great post
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:37 pm 
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I am using you as inspiration and a model Cammie. I am taking the bare amount to subsist at this point. Now I just need to find a Dr here in Texas that will be receptive to keeping me on a minimal dose and tapering. I really screwed up. But I'm so greatful to have been talking to you and I have hope....which is saying alot after all I have been thru and put myself thru as well as those that care about me.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:40 am 
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I have known cases where it was illegeal simply Because it included sound or audio.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:23 pm 
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Hi, I agree with Lilly that more than likley you would do much better at .5 or 1mg (not 2mg). Did you re-induct yourself? Re-inducting is taking the lowest possible dose to "level"..finding your baseline, then staying there as you dose. I agree to NOT go above 2mg but consider even lower.

First, my prayer is you lose the attitude you are a failure. How can you say that after you went 40 days without Sub? That experience alone is not wasted. That will and forever be part of your recovery journey and no doubt a significant shaping of who you are now and will become - honey, you are NO WIMP, but an amazing, overcoming SUCCESS as you actually lived, shared and bore your soul to help others. 40 days after jumping from 2mg is huge.

Personally, I see you as re-adjusting your "program" of recovery. This is YOUR program, not some cookie cutter of someone elses. So you decide to do a more slow taper - whatever works. I see your choices as directional to recovery and not just "re-acting".

My prayer is you Lose the negative thinking..ignore thoughts of "I am a failure" and expose the lie - "feelings" are not truth, TRUTH is truth - and you know what God says - Truth will set you free. Trust in who you are, a woman that if you fail 7 times over, you will get up 7 times. I have no idea if you believe in God, but He believes in you. My prayer for you is that you will find the faith to Pray for His guidance and He will help you and one first simple but huge step, challenge your thinking and behave your way to better mental health. Correct yourself to the truth of trusting God.

I recommend NA meeting? Highly recommend AA too. I actually attend AA - . YOu will be amazed the support and get the help you need to stay in the right thinking.


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