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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:57 pm 
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Well it has been a really really long time since I have been around this incredible forum. I am back to share my story and possibly get some advice.

Just over one week ago 4/12/12 I was playing catch (baseball in the street) with my seven year old son. Something we do on a regular basis. My son threw the ball over my head and I jumped to grab the ball only to slam into the street chin first. You can guess where this story is going now.

Off to the urgent care center hoping to be in and out. Xray was taken. Liquid stiches for the chin. Doc tells me xray is perfect you will be fine in no time. Meanwhile, I am in fetal position on ER bed unable to open my mouth more than half way. The pain was beyond anything I can explain. I told the doc this cannot be right something is wrong, I can even hear crepitus when I open/close my mouth. The doc insisted all is fine. I was given a script of Loritab after being completely honest about being on 16mg of Suboxone daily. 12 pills in total of Loritab.. I stopped Suboxone briefly while taking Loritab only to find out the pain medication did absolutely nothing as expected. Didn't take long for 12 Loritab's to be gone and back on Suboxone.

Monday rolls around and I haven't eaten solid food since Thursday afternoon. Drinking smoothies. If I tried to eat something solid the pain in my jaw was so intense I just gave up. Even when not eating I would get bolts of shocking pain in my jaw that would make me flinch. I have no primary doctor and my sub doc is out of town so I called my dentist of several years. My dentist performed a panoramic xray. Xray shows a possible fracture and he tells me my meniscus is dislocated. Dentist tells me to see an orthopedic surgeon ASAP.

So, we are now into Monday night 4/16/12. I‘ve been on the phone half of the day with my insurance company (Coventry) trying to find an Ortho Surgeon in my network…. I did eventually find one I was happy with….this was now Tuesday afternoon 4/17/12.

WEDS, 4/18/12, I go in and get a CAT scan done at the ortho surgeons office. Results are a fractured mandible and my right joint in my jaw has disintegrated. Doc tells me possible tumor, cist, or simply my TMJ I have had over my life time. I do have chronic TMJ so I am hoping this is why the joint is in bad shape. Doc tells me this is a GOD send that my jaw broke to find out about the joint. Doctor gives me a script of Percocet and schedules me to have my jaw wired the next day, 4/19/12. I didn't take Suboxone today (weds) knowing I would be getting some pain meds and hoping for some relief. I also spoke to my dentist to advise him of my joint and what the surgeon had said.. My dentist tells me he sees know tumors on the xray and believes this is from chronic TMJ... The surgeon told me you cannot see much on the panoramic xray regarding tumors etc...Surgeon tells me he is not worried about the fracture he is more worried about why the joint has disintegrated.

Thursday AM, stopped Suboxone WEDS, 4/18/12. Started taking Percocet for the pain. Pain meds doing absolutely nothing as expected. Thursday I get my jaw wired shut with four titanium screws... Now the pain is unbearable. I ended up having to give back the Percocet’s in trade for liquid Roxicet since the doctor can only write so many scripts. 5/325 dose of Roxicet.

Friday AM, 8:00AM (4/20/12) now two full days off Suboxone. I am feeling some withdrawal symtoms which I am surprised due to the long half-life of Suboxone. On a scale of 1-10 I would say the withdrawal feeling is around a 3... Just enough to be annoying. Some muscle aches, sweating...the normal feeling of withdrawals coming on. I am taking one double dose of Roxicet first thing in the AM just to barely break through the Suboxone barrier to get some pain relief. Not getting high at all from Roxicet which I found amazing. 30 minutes later withdrawal symptoms are 100% gone and I feel normal with moderate pain in my mouth. More from the titanium screws. Friday afternoon around 3PM I all of sudden felt like crap. FLU like symptoms came on fairly strong I had to lie down... I took the normal dose of Roxicet and 30 minutes later I returned to normal. I now realized I am taking Roxicet not for pain but to simply stay out of withdrawal from Suboxone.

Saturday rolled around.. Almost four days now off Suboxone. Found myself taking pain meds every five hours just to stay out of withdrawal from Suboxone. I must say I am surprised how intense Suboxone withdrawal really is... still not even close to full blown oxycodone withdrawal. Still very annoying and uncomfortable.... Oh by the way.... I decided not to tell the surgeon I was on Suboxone just so I was not judged. I noticed my script of Roxicet was going pretty quickly... once again this is liquid roxicet. I was not feeling much pain but every 5-6 hours I felt withdrawals coming on. I was basically taking Roxicet to keep myself out of withdrawals from Suboxone. I began thinking to myself this might be a great way to stop suboxone and avoid withdrawals... I wanted to see how I would do without Suboxone but i didn't have enough Roxicet to last the time needed to avoid Suboxone withdrawal....Roxicet will be gone tonight....as I just took my last dose. I basically took Roxicet around the clock to keep myself feeling normal. Not once did I ever feel high from the 5 or 10mg dose of roxicet.... By the way, Roxicet is oxycodone and I believe Tylenol correct me if I am wrong with the Tylenol. this was incredibly cool experience to know I could use a full agonist opiate like oxycodone to come off of Suboxone...I never once craved for more roxicet....I have read this on the forum here but never experienced this myself....I would say this probably is not too safe in the first place regarding falling into the grip of oxycodone addictions.

Saturday night is here... My mom is begging me to try and come off Suboxone. My sons BDAY is tomorrow.... This is only day number four off Suboxone... I simply hate the feel of withdrawal, I am a baby....My mom actually asked a friend for some Percocet’s to get me by a few more days.....4 pills to be exact. 5mg dose of the opiate I needed to avoid withdrawals. I knew this would not be enough to escape completely... I am very well educated on opiate addiction at 39 years old. I am very well educated on the relapse rate......I have read endless articles from sub doc.....at this point I am thinking this has happened for a reason running out of pain meds....There is no way in hell I am going to ride out the withdrawals...

Since starting Suboxone roughly two years ago my life has been incredible.. I have never ever touched a pain medication other than suboxone until now... I also had no idea until now how well Suboxone handled my back pain....My lower back has been aching for days now....Roxicet is not helping my back pain at this dose.

I basically wrote this article to prove how incredible Suboxone really is.... As I read on this forum and now have lived it to tell my story I can see why relapse is almost impossible while being on Suboxone long term. Feeling withdrawal pain in the middle of the night, rolling around not sleeping well. Having to take a dose of Roxicet in the middle of the night to sleep so I am comfortable. To feel normal for five hours during the day and then all of a sudden withdrawal pains instantly on the 6th hour. Watching an entire script just disappear to avoid withdrawals from Suboxone and not get high one time in the process. I really just don't know what to say... It now now 9:42PM, I can tell you this I am really impressed with everything I have read from everyone on this site especially Sub Doc himself... Every single thing I have read from Sub Doc himself is on the money.... 100% correct, i have lived it... I can totally see now why one would get discouraged if they wanted to get high on a full agonist opiate after being on Suboxone for some time. You have to put yourself through hell in order to make it to the point of getting high.. The cost of getting high would be outrageous as well due to one’s tolerance being so high from Suboxone.

For this opiate addict I hate withdrawal with a passion. I just grabbed my box of Suboxone strips and gave that box a kiss because Suboxone is a miracle medication. I know longer have to worry about feeling withdrawal pains, I never have to worry about relapsing as long as I stay on this life saving medication called Suboxone. I'm going to take an over the counter sleep aid to avoid a restless night. I'm going to wake up around 7AM and somehow slide this Suboxone strip in between my teeth and under my tongue. For my sons BDAY I will no longer have to watch the clock to avoid withdrawals. I know tomorrow will be the best day I have had since stopping Suboxone. Now I just have to wait another 10 days until they take these four screws out of my mouth. Then possibly surgery to have a joint replacement.

Any suggestions on over the counter pain relief medications would greatly be appreciated. I will keep you all posted on my experience until the end of this nightmare has ended...

Sorry for such a long post, I really felt the need to share this story and my experience.... Feel free to ask any questions you like...

Talk to you all soon. Glad to see this forum still going...

SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:57 am 
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Hey superbuper,

I'm glad I just read that! Also I remember reading your posts when i first joined the forum... Wanted to post real quick that when I was taking 8mg per day I would cut the strip in half the long way and put the halves next to each other just under my front teeth between my gums and lip. Like the place where they put chewing tobacco. Worked just as good for me and I could wake up 2 hours early, pop it in and go back to sleep.

I still do this although I have been tapering, I notice less saliva gets in that space as well.

Thought it may help with your jaw being wired shut!

I like 800 mg ibuprofen for pain btw, hope u feel better soon..

Gb


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:08 am 
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Glen Bee - Perfect timing with your post. So, I wake up about 7:30AM in moderate withdrawal. I was hot and clammy for sure. I was debating on dissolving the 7.5mg hydrocodone pill and taking the meds my mom got for me. This thought didn't last very long though.

I had the exact problem you brought up Glen. I tried to slide the Suboxone strip in between my teeth and under my tongue but this didn't work very well. The strip ended up sticking to the back of my tooth and getting jammed between my upper mouth and my teeth. I was able to move my tongue around a bit and was able to taste Suboxone. Eventually the entire stripped dissolved. Like magic about 30 minutes later I felt like a million dollars. The funny thing is I actually took another 8mg strip and cut the strip in half. I did exactly what you recommended and placed the strip in between my bottom lip and gums. This worked perfect. The stripped dissolved on its own in about 5 minutes. I was wondering how this would work. So, it looks like I'm good to go and this merry go round is over.

By the way my lower back pain is a thing of the past. Since taking Suboxone this AM I do not have a drop of lower back pain. To be completely honest I do not have an ounce of pain anywhere!

Thanks for your post... I will grab some ibuprofen and keep that in mind if Suboxone doesn't handle the job.

One happy person - SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:05 am 
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SUPERBUPER! Talk about a blast from the past. Good to "see" you again, although I'm sorry about the circumstances that brought you back here.

There is a better way for you to get pain relief, you know. You can take your full agonist pain meds (should you get more, and I'm sure your condition merits it) and take them along with a small dose of suboxone, like 1-2 mg. This is a VALID way to treat acute pain in sub patients.

Go to the LINKS section on the Index page and the first thread (it's a Sticky), has a link in it for an NIH article about treating acute pain in sub and methadone patients. This is one of the legitimate options given in that paper. It would behoove you to read that paper and understand all the options of treating acute pain, since this is your current situation.

I wish you the very best and hope you get some REAL pain relief soon. Take care of yourself.

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 Post subject: Interesting!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Hatmaker thanks for the reply and glad to see you still around. I had no idea you could mix a full agonist opiate with Suboxone. I always thought if you took Suboxone too close to a full agonist you could experience withdrawal symtoms so I find this very interesting. This is really good information for me thank you. I'm guessing this would have kept me from bouncing in and out of withdrawal. You mentioned 1-2mg dose... Since this is still a very high dose of buprenorphine I would think bup would block all effects of the full agonist. I could not find the link you mentioned in your post I am sure this would answer all of my questions..


Well quick update.....9:00PM Sunday. had a great BDAY party for my older son... Not once did I feel withdrawals today. I dosed 16mg of Suboxone first thing in the AM and never dosed again....Never tool anything else for pain. I generally only take 8mg of Sub a day so 16 was quite a bit more than average.. I took the additional dose to see how it dissolved in between my lips and gums.... kind of a silly test I guess.... No pain whatsoever today either except at the end of the day....

Some metal around the titatium screw unwinded itself piercing my lip in the process. Looks like a twisted piece of metal coming off the screw. No other screws have anything even close to this. I am tempted to cut it off but I do not want to cause anymore damage. I am unable to bend or move this piece of metal that unwinded. I placed a big chunk of wax that was given to me to cover the screws over the metal. Seems to help a bit and then eventually the bent piece of metal pierces through the wax and then my lip.... So I call the doctor... Doctor calls me back and says nothing I can do now except cover the metal with wax and see him tomorrow. I rolled up a huge piece of wax and placed it over the screw along with this twisted metal that came un done. Looks like I am dipping tobacco... I'm sure by tomorrow morning my lip will be busted up.. We shall see.

SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:37 pm 
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can u pull a pencil eraser off the end of a pencil and stick it on the metal????

Might work longer than the wax.
Ive got really bad teeth (getting fixed tho!!) and Ive used wax in the past when one breaks and starts
cutting into my lip or gumline, when the wax wont do the job,
sometimes a chunk of pencil eraser will!!!!!!

just trying to help.
You also might try a small piece of duct tape? I dont know how long the piece of metal is that's
sticking out, you may not have enough room, but the duct tape would stick to itself, and it just may work.


Just a few ideas!!!! hope this helps, and I hope you feel much better, VERY soon.
good luck

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:39 am 
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Here's the link to the thread I was talking about: http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1812

Within that thread is another link to the paper I was referring to by the NIH. That's the paper I suggest you read and make a copy or two of. You might want to give it to your main doctor who is treating you as well. Hope that helps.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:41 am 
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amber4.14.11 - thanks for your advice.....I really had a hard time with the wax but I eventually just said screw it and took several big pieces of wax and molded them around the screw.... My cheeks look like I had a piece of bubble gum in my mouth but it worked.. :D

Hat - Thank you very much for the links, I will read them tonight after work....... You know I am having trouble being honest with this doctor about me being on Suboxone. So many doctors have have very little education on the medication and simply treat you different once they hear your on Suboxone. I can already tell this doctor is very careful of giving out pain medications period. I went back the day after the wire issue and he never offered to give me another script for the pain. I did mention I was in pain the AM (from grinding I'm sure at night), also in pain laying down at times.... If sleep on my side I feel my jaw kind of move around a bit it's weird... I then get some really strong sharp pains. I never specifically asked for them either.. I am sure once these screws come out the pain will begin again. Regardless, I will read the articles in detail and then decide how I am going to handle this problem. I have a long road ahead.


Quick Update for anyone else reading/interesting:

4/25/12 - Been off liquid Roxicet now since Saturday night. Sunday I went back on Suboxone.... Now it's Tuesday and I feel dynamite. I found a cool trick on how to get the strip under my tongue with my mouth wired shut... I simply use a clean pair of nail clippers and cut the strip in four separate pieces. I cut them the short way. I then hold the strip with the tips of my fingers and slide the strip into place between my upper and lower front teeth. Keep in mind, I have just about perfect teeth and bite so there is hardly any room. Once the strip is in place I actually use a straw and squeeze the tip of the straw and push the strip upwards to the roof of my mouth. Slowly and gentle push the strip up with the straw and snag the strip with my tongue. Then I do some tongue magic and get the strip under my tongue where it belongs... Took a day or so to perfect this method but it works... An 8mg strip I have been cutting into three small pieces.....I insert one at a time until all three are in place. I have started taking additional pieces of an 8mg strip for by back pain roughly 6 hours later and so on. Up tp 16mg total a day. Like I mentioned before Suboxone works a whole lot more for my lower back pain then I ever new....

Is Suboxone working for the pain in my mouth???? I have been asking myself...... I have zero pain in my mouth during the day with four screws and my mouth wired shut. I did have a bit of pain the first few days around the clock while taking Roxicet. Night and morning are different, I do experience some pain. Could this be from grinding and my TMJ or simply because I am not taking Suboxone in the middle of the night. Can't answer that one..... If anyone wants me to dose in the middle of the night to see say the word...

Thanks guys!

SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:24 pm 
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SuperBuper,
This was a really great thread, and I thank you for sharing your story. As was mentioned earlier, mixing Suboxone and pain meds is OK. Also, I do recommend being honest with your doctors about Suboxone. I know many are ignorant, but ultimately it's to our benefit. I'm facing major surgery sometime later this year (liver transplant), and when I met with the transplant team, I was armed with print-outs of the NIH article and two articles written by Dr. J on surgery. I spoke with the various doctors and the anesthesiologist. The latter explained in detail how I would receive pain relief, which greatly calmed my fears, as I had been worrying about it for weeks.

So if you can, I would recommend trying to communicate your situation. I had no idea what to expect (though I was bracing for the worst), but I was surprised at how easy the conversation ended up being. Please keep us all updated. And best of luck!


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 Post subject: Update on my condition
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:46 pm 
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Surgerybound - Thank you very much for your response, I greatly appreciate it. You are 100% right, I should have been honest from the beginning and I'll tell everyone why. Not being honest did bite me on the *(* this past weekend.


Every single night like clock work I would begin to have a strange feeling/pain in my jaw. I first thought my jaw was shifting because my jaw felt like it was moving. I felt my skin sliding across the screws. This really was annoying since it took me half the night to fall asleep and I was constantly moving the pillows around. Nothing really helped. I mentioned this to my doctor several times and was never given a solution. The wires have to be tightened every fews days as well. Thusday April 26th I was beginning to get very frustrated from eating smoothies, ice cream all the time. I called my doctor Thursday to tell him the pain at night time is just too much to sleep. My doctor believes the wires are simply lose. When I laid down in bed and I felt my jaw moving (which my jaw was not moving will explain later) eventually it would feel as if it locked and cause pain that was off the chain. I literally would jump up from laying down and the pain immediately went away... this was so strange. Doctor is out of town again and cannot see me...this was Thursday.....so I just dealt with it until Saturday morning when I woke up really aggrivated. I called the doctor again and said I can't deal with this pain at night time and it is getting worse. Doctor tells me to go to Broward General Medical Center down here in Fort Lauderdale to see his resident physician. Off I go at 10AM.....

11AM on Saturday April 28th I am in the ER...right through fast track and into a room in the ER. Once again I was not honest about being Suboxone and I got burned. ER doctor comes up to me and says why are you on Suboxone... I was blown away and said how do you know this. The doctor says by law in order for them to give pain medication (narcotics) they have to check a database to see what medications I am on...So, I got honest and told her why I was not honest.. She actually understoofd 100% where I was coming from. This doctor told me she wants me to be very careful and not get hooked on pain medication again. I told her I highly respect her concern and I appreciated her being cautious with giving me the meds.... I then received a shot of Morphine. I was not in that much pain at this time because the pain generally occurs when I am laying down... The addict in me wanted to see how well Suboxone really works with blocking pain meds. The day before I had 12mg of Suboxone and I didn't take Suboxone this Saturday... 30 minutes after the shot I felt nothing...The doctor looked at me and laughed. She said most people talk as if they are high after a shot like that. I stepped off the bed and I seriously felt as if they shot me with saline or something. 45 minutes later I did feel a bit of the Morphine....not a high at all. I just knew it was there.. I was able to feel it in my eyes....weird.. 30 minutes later the feeling was gone and never returned. Once again Suboxone stood up to its name.

3PM April 28h Resident Physician comes in....tells me I am having muscles spasms and my jaw is not moving. The wires were lose but not that bad.... The doc did tighten down the wires anyways. This doctor gave me 200ml susp. of Roxicet. 5/325. This time i took the Roxicet with a very small strip of Suboxone and boy did this work like a charm. I wasn't going in and out of withdrawal and I never ever had any pain. I was also given Flexirol that was prepared at a custom pharmacy where they compounded the Flexirol and turned it into a liquid for me.... muscle spasms when I laid down were a thing of the past...finally relief....

5/3/12 - I stopped Roxicet and began taking my normal dose of Suboxone.... I went to my doctor and the wires were cut and removed.. I finally ate solid food. Boy eating is a blessing! Still have four screws in my mouth for the "just in case" for two more weeks. I am on a soft food diet for three weeks... my right side of my jaw is very sore and painful to eat. I am staying off Roxicet now and just going to ride this out. For some reason I just don't feel as good unless I have my full dose of Suboxone. Just kind of down a bit.... Lexapro is a thing of the past now and Suboxone seems to work very well with my mild depression. There is no way I am stopping Suboxone. there is no reason to stop Suboxone. Why fix something if it isn't broken.

SuperBuper


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 Post subject: This is unorthodox?
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:33 pm 
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I have read and laughed with my pharmacist about dissolving the strip in water using a small syringe(no needle). Take the strip and dissolve it in the syringe and try to either squirt it in your mouth(under tongue). Or if you are really really desperate, I have heard that it can be administered rectally. My pharmacist said it is almost/exactly like getting a shot. I assume because all of the membranes. I know this would not be an option for me, but desperate times call for desperate measures? Try your mouth(under the tongue preferably) first! This is not a joke. I have read about people having the pharmacist make their Suboxone into suppositories, because of the irritation under the tongue! [font=Arial] [/font]


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 Post subject: Nightmare/Update
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 2:57 am 
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@jamba6969 - that is pretty funny. I guess you have to do whatever is necessary... I found no issues dissolving the strip like chewing tobacco like glen bee mentioned... I also managed to get small pieces of the 8mg strip in between my two sets of teeth and under my tongue....so rectally not sure why you would ever need that unless you had no mouth at all...to each his own...

5/6/12 - 2:36AM - I should be sleeping but instead I am dealing with pain on a scale of 1-10 about a 6 in my right ear. Well it has been several days since the doc cut my wires....left the four titanium screws there for just in case for two weeks....when the doctor cut my wires he said to me.. "See you in two weeks unless your bite/jaw shifts. If this happens call me immediately he said"

Well guess what happened.... 48 hours later roughly Saturday morning I noticed a change. My bottom two front teeth were rubbing against my top two front teeth. Not the norm for sure. When I left the doc this wasn't happening. As the day progressed I began having pain in my right ear....I noticed when I took my index finder and slowly put the tip of my finger in my ear I noticed the right ear I could barely insert my finger... I knew not to stick my finger into my ear, I did this as a test to see if there was swelling...and sure there was. Not too happy as I thought things were going pretty well... Food tasted really good even though I was on a soft diet.

I called the doc's emergency line and left a message with my problem...even told him no need to call me I will get in touch Monday morning. Phone rang 30 minutes later....he was glad I left a message.. Doc told me know more chewing and to use the small rubber bands he provided and rubber band my jaw shut. Another words take one rubber band and place it over the top left screw in my mouth and stretch the rubber band down to the lower left screw in my mouth. Same with the right... this will stabilize the bite he says until I can see him Monday....

I can sense surgery coming, I really don't want to deal with my mouth being wired shut another two weeks to only have to get surgery.. Man, I don't know what to do... I'm just going to live in the moment and worry about right now...when Monday comes I'll deal with it...

Pain....I hate pain....the pain seems to be getting worse by the minute. I can even tell my jaw is displacing more out of place by the hour. As this occurs more pain is coming on.. Motrin, Aleve, Ibuprofen, Nothing works well enough to handle this pain.. Suboxone helps a bit but not completely. I have no pain meds and would have to head to the ER tomorrow to get them. It is now 2:44AM and I am awake due to the pain. I cannot get comfortable in my bed enough to relax. I just took a dose of liquid Flexirol that was compounded by a special pharmacy. This should to the trick but isn't working fast enough. I am debating on taking a Suboxone strip now to help with the pain. This really is tough....

This issue I am having seems to be never ending but I keep thinking people have it must worse than I do. I keep telling myself this will all pass eventually.. I'm glad I have been on Suboxone for over two years now because it seems no matter what full agonist opiates like Oxycodone are just not the same anymore. I am not worried about taking the full agonist opiate if I have too anymore. I am going to do exactly what hatmaker brought to my attention if necessary. I will take approx 1mg of Suboxone with my dose of Roxicet or whatever they give me. I need to get my ducks in a row for surgery since my doctor mentioned this is the route we most likely will be going. I want to get all the literature I can get my hands for ammo to present to my surgeon... We're sure lucky to have a site like this to share our stories and learn from one another...

Keep you all posted..

SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:25 am 
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5/7/12 - 8:00AM - Off work since WEDS of last week. I passed out last night due to lack of sleep the night before. Swelling went down a bit too... I think this is because I chilled out with eating over the past 12 hours since my jaw has been killing me. I think I may have over did it a bit.....Still taking Suboxone 8MG in the morning and another 8mg in the afternoon. My ear started hurting on Sunday kind of felt like an ear ache....throbbing feeling. I noticed when I gently place my index finger into my right ear I noticed it is swollen compared to the left ear... Not good... The cool thing is I took 8MG of Suboxone and within one hour I had no ear pain whatsoever....

Never could have imagined this miracle medication called Suboxone helps me in more ways than I ever thought the medication would. Suboxone continues to treat my lower back pain even after being on the same dose for several years... Unlike Oxycodone where most people quickly build up a tolerance and need to up their dose to get pain relief. This is just one reason why I find Buprenorphine amazing.

5/7/12 - 2:00PM - Arrived at the doctor...Oral Surgeon. I was pretty sure the doctor was going to see me and immediately say "surgery".. Doctor orders another CAT Scan and within 15 minutes I was done with the CAT scan and waiting for the results...10 minutes later doctor walks in with his assistant.... Doctor says my bite is exactly where it needs to me. So at this point I am thoroughly confused... I know my bottom two front teeth were not touching my two top front teeth last thursday when he cut the wires... let me rephrase that....one bottom tooth was touching and actually hurt from pressing against the top tooth...only one tooth though.. This tooth I figured since my top right front tooth above it actually has moved in the past two years back a bit....Saturday the other bottom front began touch the tooth above...and now several bottom teeth touch the top... Doctor insists CAT scan shows the bite as being perfect and blames the bottom teeth touching probably a result from the accident.....and just leaves it at that.. Doctor says I must have went a little over board with eating the past few days (I did break the rules - come on I'm an addict did you expect different. Oh he doesn't know I'm an addict....Yah right...I'm sure he found out just like Broward General did as I mentioned earlier in the thread). Doc also said I have had a lot of problems with the wires losening etc...blames this on talking too much when my mouth was wired shut, TMJ grinding at night, etc....I find this really difficult not to talk for two weeks...especially when you have two young children and you worked for the two weeks. Doctor said it was fine to work. I then asked the doctor how does the bone look, damage?? Doc said it is filling in and then quickly gives my options again.... Wire mouth shut for another two weeks this time NO TALKING, or surgery.....Now I am just quiet and really confused, frustrated, dreading having my mouth wired shut for another two weeks... Bite is perfect even though my bottom teeth are not alligned correctly.. Not sure if this has anything to do with the bite being good...

So, now I am really frustrated and my mind began to wonder thinking how having your mouth shut for two weeks is worse than water boarding. Never in my life have I experienced water boarding either but I am telling you it not fun having your mouth wired shut for two weeks... I could no longer think rationally and the doctor never answered my question correctly regarding the bone/damage... So I ask doc if I could have 24 hours to make my decision.. Doc says sure but you do not want to wait too long otherwise the bone will not heal properly and then I will need extensive surgery to fix the problem.....

I was thinking of food at this point in a day dream and thinking what can I eat tonight before I get my mouth wired shut...then the doc says it is not good to have your mouth wide open in this condition and rubber bands my jaw shut and sends me out the door. Rubberbands/steel wire....same results......walked to the car and snapped the rubberbands off. I figured you know what I need to call a few family members and get some opinions and you know I am going to eat before I decide to lock down for two weeks..

On my way home this thought hit me.... Why do I either have to have my jaw wired shut for two weeks or surgery if my bite is fine and the bone is filling in....shouldn't the doctor have said SuperBuper you need to be a good boy and stick to soft foods and then the swelling will go down and give it time....otherwise surgery will be no choice.....I'm no doctor so I stuck with what he told me....

Spoke with several people I trust along with my wife and they felt the same way as I did. Meaning why have the mouth wired shut if everything is fine.......then I remembered I told the doctor I was in pain and since I was in pain he mentioned the bone is not healing properly so he then gave me the options to avoid a bigger issue down the road.

Well I left a message for the doctor to call me and I haven't heard back from him.. I did leave a message asking him this question to confirm....I also told him I elect to have the surgery done.... Every person I spoke to said if it didn't work the first two weeks what makes you think it will work the second two weeks... I kept telling everyone I will not talk this time.....still everyone kept saying the same thing....

Surgery will leave a two inch scar from the tip of my ear and run down the mandible bone on my right side....at 39 I really do not want a scar on my face for the rest of my life. The doctor will put a metal plate over the area of the fractured bone to stabalize my jaw....one night stay in the hospital and then home and back to normal within two days....and I can eat....hope this is the right decision....

MEMBERS...ANYONE...any advice, opinions, anything now is the time.... I am guessing I will be going on some type of narcotic pain med.... do I stop Suboxone now??? Or do what Hatmaker pointed out earlier in this thread... 1-2MG piece of Suboxone with my Full Agonist Opiate...for acute pain....
Here comes the honestly... I am going to get honest with the doctor.....I think he already knows I am on Suboxone. Earlier in the thread I mentioned I got busted when I went to the ER to have the wires tightened. Read earlier in the thread if you missed that. I am just going to get honest and tell him why I was not honest.....learning experience.. i think I will always be honest from this point anyways.

The doctor never even offered me pain medication today... I told him my ear was throbbing and my jaw hurts....the pain is not happening all of the time but comes in waves...on a scale from 1-10. 10 being the worst I would say the pain is a 5-6....when I eat forget it...it doesn't matter if I am eating mashed potatoes...the pain is an 8 with ease......

Sorry for such a long post…I am sure I repeated myself too… I am tired and going to bed….talk soon!
SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:42 pm 
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Quick update for whomever maybe following... Hope I am not boring everyone with these huge posts. To be honest I am in fear of dealing with severe pain after surgery.

5/8/12 - Surgeon found me a new primary physician since I do not have one currently. Really like this doctor very very thorough. I am doing pre-operation work, blood work, EKG, etc to make sure I am ready for surgery. I was honest with this doctor about Suboxone. I also mentioned I got honest with my surgeon has well... I haven't spoken to the surgeon one time since tuesday. I briefly discussed Suboxone and surgery with the primary. The primary physician seemed familiar with Suboxone but I don't know how much. I will have a Pain MGMT doctor assigned to me as well I was told. Down here in South Florida as most know they are getting really tight with pain meds down here.

5/9/12 - Knocking out all of the pre-op stuff. Have to get a chest x-ray today due to a previous condition I had... I only took 2-3mg of Sub this AM knowing I need to stop or slow down considerably. Not a single call or any direction on how to handle Suboxone from any doctor. I decided on my own to only take the 2-3mg dose today and that is it. As the day progressed I began to have more pain. Jaw, Back etc... I called the primary to get a script of Roxicet now so I can have to fight withdrawal if necessary and take for pain of course.

Drive to office grab script...Here comes the fun part. Trying to find liquid Roxicet very difficult to find... I nailed it at the first pharmacy only to be denied the medication. Pharmacist stated this is the third doctor who prescribed me this medication recently. Pharmicist also said and Suboxone has been used as well and this is a big conflict. Meanwhile more than sufficient time has passed between Roxicet scripts....several days. I haven't picked up Suboxone at all during all of this. I have been using my month supply in between Roxicet. I mentioned to the pharmicist one is my surgeon, second is an ER doctor had major problems with wires, third is a new primary physician. I told the pharmacist I am having surgery in a few days. Mentioned I had four screws in my mouth to show him I am not trying to get high... He could careless...

Had major issues at hospital with x-ray...no need to get into detail will handle tomorrow.

5/10/12 - I'm an addict...I will get this scriot filled... Found another pharmacy I have never been too. I actually really like the place. Had script filled within 20 minutes... I did not take Suboxone today at all...just going on 24 hours. I took a double dose of Roxicet knowing it would do nothing....like I said it did nothing... I got my x-ray finally done and I am now cleared for surgery... it is now 4PM... I took another dose of Roxicet to see if it would touch the pain.... I was surprise it did...I was able to eat with very little pain for the first time in weeks. I knew I had to becareful eating and not to cause more injury since I donot feel pain. No high whatsoever. it is now 11:39PM, I have not take another dose of Roxicet I am going to take my muscle relaxer for the muscle spasms and hit the bed.... pain is not that bad as long as I don't eat or open my mouth.

Members....I can really use the advice....anything....negative or positive...informational.... I haven't had much time to read anything on the site as this happened so fast and I've been so busy with pre-op stuff....and working from home...My surgery is coming up fast and I am in fear of not receiving enough pain meds during/after surgery... I am going to take the least amount of Roxicet I can tomorrow. I think I am going to take tomorrows dose with a very small piece of Suboxone. I know I am going to need pain MGMT for awhile and I think this is great if this works well together.

talk soon - SuperBuper


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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 12:16 am 
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First, I'm reading your updates, so thanks for them. I'm sorry that pharmacist did that to you! But luckily you did find one to attend to your needs. I guess I understand their position, but yours is a unique situation. Although I will say he's misinformed about suboxone and roxi being "in conflict". They aren't - not really.

You'll get different post-op meds to take home right? Or is that what the Roxicet is for? And definitely ad a small amount of sub (how much depends on your normal dose). That can really make a difference in your pain relief.

I've only had a pretty minor procedure, especially in comparison to what you're going through, so I can't offer you any specific assistance.

Just make sure you read and completely understand that NIH (sub and acute pain) paper. You want that shit in your head to discuss with a surgeon or anesthesiologist with ease. That's my best suggestion to you.

Good luck and I hope all goes smoothly for you.

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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