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 Post subject: One long ride !
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:03 am 
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Hello all,
I'm 37yo and live in rural WV. I'm going to try and consolidate this as much as possible. From here out: "we" is my wife and I. We have been together since high school.
We started eating hydro's at 19 or 20. Soon went to snorting hydro's or Perc. We started smoking weed earlier than that. Wasn't ever much of a drinker. Excluding the occasional party.

It wasn't long until the oxycontin was everywhere. Cheap . even profitable. We would grind them on the back of hose clamps to stretch them out. All those years.... We both always worked. She obtained an AS in radiology. I worked construction away. Started s a laborer. Wasn't long I was a foreman doing work in a nuclear power plant. We never got in trouble with work or the law.
I was more of a weekend warrior. I'd get high all weekend. Go back outta town with nothing but weed normally.
Oxy s got super expensive. Hydro's got rare. Roxy's was everywhere. Opana also. And morphine 30s could Always be had.

I had a couple month binge smoking crystal meth while on a job in IN. Knew it wasn't good so I came home . Walked away. Had a bout of IV cocaine use. Knew I would die because it was SO good. So I just told on myself. I knew My wife would stop it or tell my folks. I Walked away from that also. The only time that I ever used iv.

We still always was playing the game. Hunting. Spending. We had nice cars and clothes. We never sold shit to buy. I had a small fortune in guns. And still do today. If there wasnt enough for two i just carried on without. Always worked. It was life.

Somewhere in early 08 maybe. Shit got nearly impossible to find. I done without and she started at a methadone clinic. Wasn't long till methadone tablets was around. Done them too. Roxy when we could. Methadone the rest. I swore it off because it hurt coming off of worse than the rest. Shecourse she had take the liquid on site and it would totally eff her up. Then she had to go to work that way. Suboxone came to the clinic and was cheaper so she tried it.

NThen it was like Roxy s or perc if it could be had. Sub if not. For me it was pills all week if they was there. Then a day without then a half a sub and nothing for the next week or two at times. For her it was one of the other always.

She left her work of nearly 14 years when her dad was getting bad with terminal lung cancer. & Started at a cash only sub doc and then it was sub only for her. I continued on as I always had.

We lost her dad in 2010 . Severe depression. He as like a 2nd father to me. I loved that man so much!!!. We got her mom situated in a new life with her other daughter.

( Wait!!! I left that out. Wife's younger sister by 7 years lived with us after high school and most summers in between. We helped her get a Associate in nursing. Should also mention their parents was hard core users always. Mine only smoked weed. )

Anyways. I was working the coalfields. She was home depressed. One of my guys asked if I'd ever heard of bath salt. No. Oh boy. Hold on. !!! We got damn crazy. No trouble but only the lord can say why. ! We stopped because it was outlawed. Thanks WV !

10 days from a year later my dad was murdered in his own yard. My dad. Her 2nd dad. My hero. My idol. My best man at my wedding. My mom had been sick with meneres . We picked up and moved to SC with her. Our home place burnt in 01. Me my wife and her sister was the only ones there. My entire childhood life and home gone in a matter of hrs. (Thats also when my dad actually died inside anyway)

Another year or so. I haven't been on anything except I notice Id started drinking beer . then one day a bottle of liquor. A wrecked company truck. ( I'd made it to superintendent). A resignation. I just didn't care. More beer. No more liquor.

Money was getting low. I'd spent nearly all of our savings getting my mom moved back home to WV. I went back to the coalfields. New company. Made foreman in days. Suboxone was everywhere. I got to eating a piece nearly daily. I was driving 2 hrs. Working 12 and driving back. So it helped. Then when it ran short I realized I was actually hooked on something for the first time in my life.

We got pregnant !!! No kids yet. Her cash dr kicked her to the curb instantly. This doc made her use his pharmacy and we made the mistake of getting prenatals filled also. They told him. She tried to quit. So hard. It tore me apart inside. Her OBG doc got her in a program for subutex She dropped to about 1-2 mg only when she couldn't stand anymore. Our daughter was perfectly healthy (except a brken clavical during delivery) she had 0% bup in cord blood. 9lb 10 oz. Bout killed her momma.
Now I was buying on street because we couldn't share hers anymore.

I had got my right hand crushed severely and came close to falling to my death. Hoist well in a plant. I went to her cash doc. They refused me. Said I was not a addict if I could get by on 2mg a day. No meds for me. Bye bye go away ! That about got me in trouble! I did get my money back though.! 175$. I got in another cash cow doc. They was nice but she uped my dose to 16mg. I never took it all. 8 a day was it. 12 on long hard painful days (14 hr shifts out in -20 weather wind chill) 7 days a week.
The PA who had seen me always except intake referred her to another Dr who was accepting medicaid. She went. I followed. He is awesome. Cut me down over a year. From 12 to 4.

I had been working for myself and doing well. She couldn't find work in her field so went went and got a 2nd associate in nursing
She works her butt off . I accepted a foreman position close to home last August. My new insurance started the first of Jan. They will not pay for suboxone. Wanted me yo try some other kind. So....I quit the Dr. He strongly advised me not to. Wanted me to pay cash for script.
I'm just so sick of being chained to something. I went from 4 mg daily to 2 every other. Now I'm on 1 mg every 3-4 days. Depending on how bad my legs jerk at night. Still going to work. Still being daddy to my precious.
BUT .....I'm definite an alcoholic. Six pack a day because if I buy more I drink more. I don't get drunk though. I've drank nearly everyday since I lost Dad I guess. Just did realize that!
I've tried tapering before . I always felt so bad around 2 mg I always gave up went back to 4. Dr says I may be on it for life. NO.
Dunno maybe I'm dancing with a new devil. ?? 2.5 grams of Mitragyna speciosa a day has been working for me. I ate a teeny tiny piece of Sub 4 days ago. Longest stretch yet.
Stay tuned ?
Thoughts ? Comment ?
I've skipped stuff I'm sure. Shoulder surgery. Hand surgery. Crushed knee.
But I doubt anybody will be able to read all this ramble anyways. Just feels good to tell it.
Long story short. ....the only drug I've never abused is heroin...its plentiful here. Perhaps..sub is why ? Don't think so. But maybe. I have no desire to do anything. Haven't for years. ..suboxone is definitely a coin of two sides. It saved my wife's life. But the first doc was right. I should have never started it !
Good day. !


Last edited by AWThomasWestVirginia on Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:32 pm 
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AWThomasWestVirginia,

That is quite a story. What I didn't read in there was about any rehab/recovery programs you two might have tried. Was that ever an option?

This being a recovery site we tend to focus on telling addicts to be on a stable dose of Suboxone and stay that way until the addictive behavior starts to decrease. Have you tried that yet? It sounds like you want off it but have no tools in your recovery box.

The drinking doesn't seem to get you drunk because of the Suboxone is my guess. Most members here don't drink anymore because 1) it is not encouraged, and 2) members claim you can't catch a buzz on it anymore and don't enjoy it so they don't imbibe.

My suggestion is for you to be on a stable dose and stop the drinking. Get enough time under your belt and then maybe you can consider getting off it. I'm on 1 mg per day. .50 in the AM and the other half about 3 PM. Works just fine for me. Don't be in such a hurry. Go seek out some recovery programs that you might like to be part of. We can list all the available ones you if like. Just ask.

We hope this site will be of value to you and yours. Our goal is to get addicts back on their feet working and living a normal life again. It is an easier thing to do with Suboxone and nothing else.

Hope you stay for the long term.

rule

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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:49 pm 
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We have both done programs. I've been with my current Dr for about 3 years. MOST around here are just legal dealers unfortunately. Our current Dr is a good man though.
I'm just tired of being tied to something when before I'd just take it or leave it.
I'm doin OK so far though.
Restless legs,chills and sneezing. Normally sleep good every other night at least. Still working 12 hrs a day though.
Hard to stay warm outside with chills. ! Lol.
Today was 6 days with none and I have have plenty of a stash.
Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:30 am 
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Hey west virginia! Welcome to the forum!

I have to admit that I am baffled after reading your story. (And I read all of it.) You have done so many drugs for 18 years or so, but I didn't see you mention stints of sobriety. But here's the kicker. You say that suboxone is the first drug you've been hooked on. I suppose you're talking about being physically dependent? Do you think you're an addict, whether it be drugs or alcohol? Do you think that with everything you've used/abused over the years, that you are somehow exempt from being a drug addict? I would venture to say that you are a drug addict and you are addicted to alcohol, so it's not like you were using all these years and have only been addicted to suboxone. I have a friend who, for years, tried to convince herself that she isn't an alcoholic because she didn't need to drink during the week, so she was not dependent and therefore not an alcoholic.

It just doesn't work that way though. A couple of abbreviated stints in rehab does not make you recovered. The ability to taper down or off of suboxone doesn't mean you are in recovery. Addiction consists of addictive behaviors and I don't think you've expressed that you've changed your ways at all, especially if you are drinking as much as you are.

My point is that you have work to do! Suboxone may not be the right way for you to recover, but you have to try something! Have you ever seen an addictions therapist? Are there any SMART Recovery meetings in your area? Going off suboxone doesn't equal being cured of drug addiction. I just want you to know that.

I'm sorry for your losses of both your dad and your father-in-law. Obviously the loss of your dad has affected you greatly if you've had alcohol every day since he died. That might be something that you could address in therapy. I wish you the best and I hope you stay around to post. There are some very caring and supportive people around the forum.

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:46 am 
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Yes physically dependant.
I'm not trying to pass blame. I control me. I also agree that a few weeks here and a month or so awhile later are not really being clean. It seemed like how they say ....when in Rome.
I liked to get high. Yes. I never physicaly had to though.
I'm not sure about meetings. I know there are probably NA and AA. They are always held nearly an hour away though. I did see a therapist over the last three years. She also seemed to think I didn't really need to be there ? Her and my subdoc released me from going anymore about a month ago.
Just having to go to the Dr every two weeks has caused me a lot of issues. It infuriates me every other Tuesday . plus miss work.
I definitely need to cut out the drinking . and trying like hell to quit smoking.
I am an addict. For sure. Alcohol and nicotine. Work. But hopefully no longer suboxone.
Thanks for taking the time.


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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:19 am 
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Hey WV!

I have the same concerns as the others. With u stopping buprenorphine now, do u think u can long term stay straight off opiates or any other substances? Also as u probably know, ur state is rolling with opiates. I think WV is number 1 and my state is number 2 in the country for having huge huge amounts of opiates shipped there which means it's probably on every single street being sold like it is in my area. I know it's awful in every state but particularly in WV and TN. One of our mods is from WV also, Razor. There's just so much temptation out there and it may be easier for some ppl at first but as time passes by and life issues rise, do u have the tools to not use? I'm not saying u don't because I obviously don't know u personally. These are just questions to ask urself.

I don't understand why u have to see the doctor every 2 weeks if you've been there this long. Once a month seems reasonable after time. I understand ur frustration with that, especially missing work. I hate going once a month simply because I have to wait for hours upon hours, most of the time 6 hours at least. But I'm willing to do what I have to do in order to be there. It can get tough at times, some places make it difficult in every way, but I'm much happier now than I used to be so I'm ok with it.

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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:54 am 
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I know that there are a number of people here who have found success through 12 step groups. It's awesome if that works for you.

I am not one of them. I've only observed a couple here and there without really talking. My problem with NA and AA is that none of it is evidence based. 12 step group organizations have resisted being studied for scientific outcomes, so there is only anecdotal evidence, which isn't really evidence because there is no way to clear out bias from it, to show that the 12 steps work. One other problem with the 12 steps is that it's more successful for people in desperation, not people who are stable on MAT.

I prefer SMART Recovery because it's based on cognitive behavioral techniques which are evidence based. It's very easy to find online if you want to take a look at it. But here's a link.

https://www.smartrecovery.org/

There are both online support and local meetings you can look up.

Amy

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Last edited by Amy-Work In Progress on Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Because I'm a grammar/spelling nazi to myself only.


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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:42 pm 
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Amy
Im just not one to share. Never have until this post. Its me its mine. I agree with you on the 12 steps.
Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Jennifer,
I guess I have to go 2 a month because I've Never had any compliance issues. I.e. dirty test or low count. And they get to bill twice as much.
Yes WV is bad. My life has changed its circle so much. I'm not ever around anybody or anything.
Have not been tempted in years even when offered. Pretty sure today is # 7 or 8. Not sure. I got this. !
Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:18 pm 
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Well, good luck and Godspeed!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:24 am 
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AWThomasWestVirginia - I just wanted to say thank you for sharing some of your story. There are some aspects of it that I can relate with and that makes me feel better somehow. It sounds like you deal with quite a bit of pain issues from several injuries. I deal with pain every single day. It's one of the main reasons why I started using to begin with.

I hope you will be able to resist any future cravings for opiates because they can be really strong sometimes. I encourage you to spend some time on the internet and look up "Cognitive Behavioral Therapy" which was already suggested. You could learn some of the principles involved without going to a therapist, although that would be ideal. But I understand that might not be practical for you and where you're at right now. You can check in here though.

I've been away for a bit but I can tell you this is a great place to find support when you need it. I wish you well.

- OpenMind

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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:11 am 
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Open mind.
Its a privilege for my story comforting you. Even though its long and choppy it skips a lot. Yes I deal with pain daily. (And nightly) That is a big reason I used. I mean who doesn't want to be free of pain. Drs here would give out hydro's like candy on Halloween.
A structural beam got dropped on my foot years back. It swelled so bad the skin was splitting. Put me up on crutches for nearly 6 months. Broken fingers on both hands. A bad right knee since high school. Rotatory cuff & decompression surgery on my shoulder. Surgery's on my right hand after nearly losing it all. ( only two fingers don't work now)
I know how good it feels to feel great. I also know the cost of it. Being chained to pain beats the heck outta being changed to addiction. For me it has a lot to do with control issues. I control me. If I HAVE to see a Dr or play the game then that control is lost.
It also has a lot to do with what's inside your head. All those thoughts go away. You smile , maybe even laugh.
Until its gone and the cycle starts over.
I wish you the very best of luck. Stick with the group here. They have more knowledge together than a person could ever hope to find.


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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:16 am 
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Amy.
Thank you ! By following the link you posted. I found 1 meeting coming up next week. Its late enough I will not miss work and its organizer/ contact is A.Thomas . A sign perhaps. ? Lol. Thanks again. !


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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:02 pm 
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I am so glad that I could help! I have found that SMART Recovery's program makes so much sense. I go to meetings off and on and I actually have the leaders handbook because I hope to start my own meeting someday. I hope you find the meeting helpful! There are a lot of alcoholics at SMART meetings. At least that has been my experience. Let us know how it goes!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:44 pm 
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AWThomasWestVirginia wrote:
I'm just so sick of being chained to something. I went from 4 mg daily to 2 every other. Now I'm on 1 mg every 3-4 days. Depending on how bad my legs jerk at night.

Hey AW,
Although I’ve never gone a full day without subs since induction, I like your approach. I have heard all the doomsday reports on the difficult withdrawals from subs. Anyone who makes an attempt to go without is on the right track regardless of tapering. At least try, if things get to shaky, you have a backup.
AWThomasWestVirginia wrote:
Being chained to pain beats the heck outta being changed to addiction. For me it has a lot to do with control issues. I control me. If I HAVE to see a Dr or play the game then that control is lost. It also has a lot to do with what's inside your head. All those thoughts go away. You smile , maybe even laugh. Until its gone and the cycle starts over.

You think very much like my father, he will endure the pain because he can, he will not let medications dictate period. I am similar, but just lack the toughness and self-discipline to follow thru. I too despise being anchored to not just suboxone but any medications at all. It comes with baggage; bills, appointments, dependency, etc.
Rome was not built in one day.
Interesting story AW.


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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:24 am 
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Day 14 ish. Without sub. Sneeze. Yawn. Repeat. Lol. Low energy but that's not new. ! Working everyday at job and then at home. Feel like crap ...but better.

"If there was nothing wrong then there'd be nothing right."


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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Good job, buddy!

Happy Valentine's Day!

Amy

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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:16 pm 
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My goodness!
I've been cut up, crushed, beaten and even fell nearly 20' off of a roof. I don't think I've ever hurt like this. Nearly every injury has been screaming. Right knee is swollen till my jeans are tight on it. Right hand is nearly unusable and throbs constantly. Head is about to explode. Chills sneezes and yawns. Lethargic.
I'm still doing my best to keep up with my little girl this weekend. She is going on three. Although I hate to admit she got an extra half hour of TV yesterday. Rainy and cold doesn't help.
I feel VERY emotionally unstable. I'm not a crier but was at 4am yesterday. "Crawling" played. Spent the next few hours watching Kurt, Chris and Chester. Wondering about their minds. Crying. Weird.
Anyways. I'm plugging along. Work helps a lot. Only work Mon - Fri though. Keep my lo on weekends cause her mom works most of them. It can't be this bad forever. I hope.
Only relapse type thoughts are about the stash of films in my gun safe. I don't guess I'd realized how much they was helping pain. Its no wonder opiates are so appealing. Pain free = happy.

"If there was nothing wrong then there'd be nothing right"

Shinedown. What a shame


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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:43 am 
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I'm sorry ur having a bit of a rough patch. It's amazing how sometimes this process will make the most manly of men emotional (u know, those types that claim they never cry or anything). I've always thought that pain issues could be a big temptation because it's so unbearable at times. It's tough.... and with a 3 year old on top of that, it does sound hard. Hopefully u can keep the mindset that this won't last forever and all this is just a temporary thing. You'll finally turn a corner and it'll all be worth it. I truly believe that so keep that in the forefront of ur mind.

Ur doing great, I have the most respect for u because this isn't easy but ur doing it! Good job!

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 Post subject: Re: One long ride !
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Thanks. A lot better today.


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