It is currently Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:00 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:49 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:20 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Toledo, OH
Hey everyone, long time no see!

A little background, I have a little over 3 years clean & on subs (8/30/14)... (no relapses in these 3 years) ...I have slowly gotten down to 4mgs/day and have been taking that for a few months now. (I take all 4mgs in the morning) My goal for the future is to taper off completely (and possibly get on revia once I get the subs out of my system, depends how I feel/what I think is right for me at that time)

Anyways- the issue is that every morning, without fail, I will be DRIPPING in sweat, freezing and sweating at the same time, and it FEELS like withdrawal. My hands and feet literally DRIP. I do suffer from hyperhidrosis and am always warm, so it is VERY rare for me to ever actually be "cold" but I feel I am cold so frequently now, even when I'm hot. (if that makes sense)


It seriously feels like withdrawals, (trust me I KNOW what that feels like lol) after I take my suboxone in the morning it seems to go away about an hour later. I always take my full dose in the early morning (8-9am) because any time I have tried to split the dose (even if I were to take 2mg or even just 1mg anytime after NOON, I swear it keeps me up ALL NIGHT, ill be tossing and turning for hours, even with my trazodone it seems to just keep me up and I KNOW that its the sub because it only happens on days I have tried to split my dose and take half in the afternoon)


I know everyone says not to split the dose so that you can lower the addict behavior of "thinking" about your next dose. I honestly have never and would never do that because 1) I know its pointless, as you wouldn't be able to "feel" anything even if u tried, and 2) I have done everything in my power to stay away from anything that COULD make me "feel" anything. I only tried split-dosing during the beginning of my dose drops. I have never done it to try and "feel" something.


Can anyone relate to being on a fairly low dose (6mg or lower) and feeling like they're withdrawing around 24 hours after their last dose??? Trust me I have NO intent to use drugs. I don't want to and I don't think about it. So lets get that out of the way.

I know the half-life and ceiling dose differs from person to person, but I do believe that I have been under the ceiling dose ever since I got down to 6mgs/day. I just noticed a difference in the way I felt overall and my depression got worse and that could be a coincidence but if you have gone through a taper or even got below 8mgs/day then I'm sure you understand what I'm trying to say.


I'm just wondering what is going on with my body since I have begun my slow taper, and honestly feel disgusting in the mornings because I'm a sweaty mess. I am ready to get off subs and ready to get off this "opiate". I have heard of Revia recently and have been contemplating that if I feel it might benefit me. I am obviously not opposed to maintenance meds and never would be. Being someone who suffers from severe, chronic migraines - I have been on all types of meds my entire life for various medical issues and would never be opposed to taking something that could in any way benefit myself.

I always loved the saying "We don't get bonus points for suffering" (something like that) and that is exactly how I feel when someone tries to put down any type of recovery/maintenance med.


I don't talk to ANYONE who uses, not even people who smoke weed. (I have NOTHING against that, I personally loved smoking weed.) but for me it always lead to more. (and more and more and more), so I have learned from my past mistakes and know that in order to not relapse again I have to stay away from EVERYTHING, even alcohol is something I have learned I need to avoid completely. As addicts, we will ALWAYS want more, and NEVER be satisfied. I know that now. I have relapsed in the past, YEARS ago, and wouldn't take it back even if I could. those relapses taught me A LOT and I feel stronger now than I ever have. I just want people to know I am on suboxone for the right reasons, in a world of so many struggles and with active addiction being the MASSIVE epidemic that it is, taking over our bodies and minds, I felt the need to explain myself, since we all know it is hard to trust someone's word and take it for what it is in this messed up world we live in.

I hope I was not in any way offensive to ANYONE. That was NOT my intent. I just want to get my story across so people can do their best to give me advice or if maybe someone once went through this they can give me some tips or point me in the right direction. We are all here to help each other and that is why I love this forum so much.

Hugs
Jessica

_________________
"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, Anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." -Unknown


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:31 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2840
Location: Southwest
IMO, you are one of those people with a fast metabolism. Your system just runs through it all faster than the 36 hour standard. You're not the first here complaining of that. The only thing we can suggest is to dose twice a day. You may even be able to stick with the 4 mg's and just take 2 twice.

Yes, we are told that once a day is best. But it's not for every single person. Some do better on breaking it up, especially those who need it for pain.

The only way to get back to once a day dosing would be to increase your dose.

This is just my 2ยข others will chime in.

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:23 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:44 pm
Posts: 494
Location: New York
Hi Jessica, I'm Queenie, I am 75 and the grandmother of the forum but that doesn't mean my advice is best.

I'm just going to tell you what I think. You are not going to want to hear this but, why don't you go to 6mgs. or 8mgs. daily. You can do 3 & 3 or 4 & 4. Why be uncomfortable? At least, that's how I feel. You said you have been on Subs 3 years. I have been on subs 7 years and my doctor says it's fine. I started on 32mgs. in 7 years, my doctor brought me down to 8mgs daily and that's where I feel comfortable now. My doctor said that when & if I decide to try 4mgs, if I don't feel well, we can go back to 8mgs. I feel that is reasonable.

I notice a lot of people on Suboxone are very anxious to as we say "Jump off". What is the rush to get off of Suboxone? I think it's a matter of, "I don't want to be on anything" I understand that but I think there may be a danger of craving, or like you, not feeling well, there is always a danger, no matter how strong you are mentally. I would rather up my subs a bit and feel comfortable. Of course, it goes without saying, that is totally up to you and I respect your feelings.

Whatever you decide, I wish you well and I hope you find a comfortable solution. Just be careful, o.k?

All the best to you,

Queenie


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:58 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:59 am
Posts: 27
In a sense, yes you are going through some withdrawal. You are taking a dose under the "ceiling effect" of suboxone; therefore, the opioid receptors in your brain get angry and cause withdrawal symptoms when your body has cleared most of your previous dose (20-30 hours seems normal).

If your doctor is ok with it, you can definitely follow Queenie's advice and increase your dose. Alternatively, you can stick it out with where you are and give your body time to adjust. I apologize if I missed it in your post, but have you lowered to 4mg in the past few weeks or months? These types of symptoms are more prevelant when reducing dosage 100% saturation of receptors.

Good luck!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:05 pm 
Offline
3 Months or More
3 Months or More

Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 94
Hi Jessica,

I would be interested on how you got down to taking 4 mg a day and what dose you moved to 4 mg from. I recently completed a taper and I had to adjust periodically to "hold back" the sickness. You may just need a couple of days to adjust or depending on your circumstance you may have tapered too quickly. Not a problem either. Subs are very powerful I know it may be a pain to cut up but you may try 5 mg for a few days then cut to 4 if you still feel ill in the morning alternate between 4 and 5 4 one day and 5 the next until you can take 4 without feeling ill.
I found tapering to be a process and you need to listen to your body. From what I read I think you went below what your body is used to so you are feeling the affects.
Leave some more information if you want and I will check back and make a suggestion based on your circumstance. I hope things are getting better hang in there take is slow and easy and it will work out. I would not put a time line on it unless you are low on medication and do not have a supply to go at a snails pace. I documented my taper its in the stopping suboxone thread perhaps reading through that may be helpful.
But the answer to your question I think you already knew, yes I believe you are at the early stages of withdrawal upon waking in the morning.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:45 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:20 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Toledo, OH
Thanks for all your help everyone, just some clarifications---I do not want to increase my dose. I am working on getting off of this medication. We all have our own opinions on what we think is a "good time" to start thinking about getting off, and I truly feel I am ready. I have been taking 4mgs for a couple months. I was on 6mgs for over a year and started trying to go down to 4mgs on my own before actually having my monthly script changed (per doctors advice).

The highest I was ever at (in the VERY beginning of recovery) was 20mgs (that did not last long at all). I quickly went down to 16, then went down to 12, then 8, because I would always forget to take my afternoon dose, and that proved to me that I didnt need it. I "felt" THE EXACT SAME on 8mgs as I did on 20mgs, and that taught me A LOT.


I personally think its kinda insane that people in my group who are on 16mgs say they go through withdrawls before their next dose. Im not trying to offend anyone AT ALL. just from MY experience, I NEVER needed more than 8mgs. I understand in the beginning of recovery we all think we need the highest dose possible, and the higher the dose the more it helps with cravings. I get that. but most of the people in my group who say that have been on subs way longer than me. we are all different. for all I know, they very well may be withdrawling inbetween doses. but from what I have read on this forum and elsewhere, thats just not possible at 16-24mgs, even WITH a high metabolism. Just trying to help you understand where im coming from. I really hope I am not offending anyone.

A lot of people in my program are on 16mgs per day (or higher) and when they hear i am on 4mgs they look at me like im crazy. I was on 6mgs about a year. it just feels RIGHT for me to be this "low". I dont feel (for myself) that a higher dose is necessary. I have been taking it very slow. Sorry if i didnt express that previously.


Yes I have a chronic pain condition (chronic daily migraines) that I deal with every single day. No I NEVER felt that suboxone helped, not even in the SLIGHTEST. so I dont feel I need to try to come up with excuses to stay on it. I feel ready.

It would be a COMPLETELY different story if suboxone helped my pain, then I would DEF be like "No question about it... Im staying on subs the rest of my life!" But it DOESNT help. It NEVER affected my pain, good or bad. so I dont see why I should reconsider getting off of it. There is nothing keeping me on this med. I FEEL READY. Please dont try to change my mind about that.


There are MANY people in my therapy group who say suboxone 100% helps their pain. I have never met ANYONE else who said that it DOESNT. I think I am just one of the unlucky ones. I can completely understand wanting to stay on if it increases your quality of life. But it doesnt for me. and in a way, im grateful. because it is that much more motivating to me of feeling like I do not NEED it anymore. But everyone is different. Please remember that some of us dont want to be on this medication forever. I am fairly young. at 26. and I dont feel I need to be on subs forever. I never did. I just want to do this right. Slow and steady wins the race. I am not rushing. Never have. As I said before, It has been about a year since my last dose decrease. Im ready to continue.

I get everyone has their own opinion. But it is time. That is MY opinion and I know myself and my recovery better than anyone else so I appreciate the support and encouragement. Thanks for all your advice and I really just wanted to hear from people who HAVE tapered (or tried to) and when exactly they started feeling the sweats (or ANY other symptoms, as I have hyperhidrosis, sweating was ALWAYS one of the first symtoms of withdrawl for me, so it seemed odd to me that I have been waking up sweaty in the mornings, as that never typically happened before on higher doses)

I feel like I am doing a GOOD thing, working into my taper. If I were to go back up on my dose I would feel like I am taking 2 steps back, Im sure someone can understand that feeling. I KNOW to take it slow. I feel I am pretty educated on this medication and maintenance med process in general, being on suboxone AND methadone maintenance in the past, I have learned from my mistakes, and I know what NOT to do... , I think of some people in my suboxone group who dont even know what Buprenorphine is and it BLOWS MY MIND. I have to stop or I will go on a rant. Lol.

Thanks again for listening :)

Hugs
Jess

_________________
"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, Anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." -Unknown


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:12 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2840
Location: Southwest
Jess, no, you are not offending anyone so don't worry. I think owlcrow had the right suggestion about tapering ever so slightly. Did you go from 6 mg's down to 4? Remember, we suggest only a 5% reduction every 2-3 weeks. It will take a long time to get off it but it will be worth the effort if you do it correctly.

Do the math and read all the success stories in this section. It's all here for you to benefit from. If you are determined to get off it, you'll do it. Slow and steady wins the race.

rule

_________________
Don't take yourself so damn seriously


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group