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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:25 pm 
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I know I'm going to get crucified for saying this but oxy got me off subs. I was on nothing but subs for at least 2 years. Did pills for 2 weeks straight and came off those with some sub for 3 days then cold turkey. It wasn't as bad as you think. The 2 weeks got most the sub out of my system then I used a little for just 3 days to get off the oxy. On day 7 opiate/sub free. Say what you want but it's been a long time since I've gone a week sober and I don't plan on going back


Last edited by NooB on Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Congrats, every one's path to sobriety is unique. Please come back in 3,6, and 9 months to let us know how you are doing.
When you say 'just a little' Suboxone for three days, how much, how often and what was the final jup from. Unfortunately, no matter how successful this approach proves to be, it will continue to be illegal for prescribers to do this until there is a federal law change.
thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:36 pm 
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The first day I took maybe 5mg of sub, 3 or 4mg the second day, then 1mg the third day. I got it in my head I wouldn't w/d from subs since it was only 3 days. I did something right. I've tried numerous time's to quit with bad results. This was the easiest time around for me and it keeps getting better every day


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:17 am 
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After reading ur thread in the Introduction section, I thought the opiates u had taken was because u relapsed. Then u took the suboxone to come off the opiates because of ur relapse...... I haven't been awake very long so I may just be confused.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:59 pm 
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I'm sorry. I can see how that can be confusing. I've always considered subs and opiate pills the same to me. I tried many times to ween down to at least .5 mg of sub then quit. Never worked, withdrawal was too bad. I knew that bupe stayed in your system longer than normal opiates. So I took the opportunity I had to switch to regular opiates to get the sub out of my system. Then used sub for 3 days to get over the worse opiate withdrawals. Figured I hadn't built back up a tolerance for bupe in 3 days so decided to just stop. On day 10. Most withdrawal symptoms are gone, besides my lack of motivation.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:24 am 
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Tried that years ago. Definitely did not work for me. That's great that it worked for you and you were able to stop. Just don't forget why you started subs in the first place.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Thank you Justin for stating the obvious. The vast majority of us could not do what NooB did. If I start taking Norco's or Oxy's I'm off and running again. Been there, done that.

If and when I ever decide to stop the Suboxone then I'll plan it out well in advance like I did when I quit smoking. Knowing the end is very far off and mentally preparing for the long haul. Every tool available will be in my recovery plan. The more the merrier.

It is always nice to see someone achieve their goal but keep in mind that the goal post is years away. Take it one day at a time and you'll get there.

Congrats NooB! Now just stay the course.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:05 pm 
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So how did you quit smoking rule? I've been smoking 10 years and can't seem to quit. When I try, I go cold turkey and I have even lasted several months but I can't seem to stay quit. I want to give quitting smoking another chance especially that I just quit subs a couple months ago. Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:58 pm 
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I don't want to speak for rule, Justin, but he had some kind of cancer of the throat back in 2011/2012? I don't remember if he had gotten off cigarettes before that or not, but I imagine that was a big motivator, plus it keeps him on track now.

I would want you to consider rule's cancer as possible motivation for stopping smoking and never turning back. I know it can be hard to do. I'm not saying it's easy. But we've known for a long time now that cigarettes cause cancer. I would hate to have any of our members contract that disease.

Amy

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:29 pm 
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I have a post on my blog about 'the point of buprenorphine', something like that...

The goal with buprenorphine treatment isn't to help with detox, as that is truly the least of the problem for anyone addicted to opioids. I know everyone tends to focus on that, but opioid dependence tends to be a recurrent problem. Buprenorphine (and methadone-assisted treatment) is intended to allow for a long period away from agonists, and more important, a long period away from the behaviors that got most of us in trouble in the first place. So Noob, I'm glad you tackled the taper challenge. But I am much more optimistic about the likelihood for long-term abstinence of people who slowly taper off buprenorphine, while under the guidance of their doc. Those people have a very easy, bright line to avoid crossing: no more treating myself with opioids agonists, period. People who self-taper with an agonist have a much-more-complicated perspective: I won't touch them AGAIN, even though I was able to 'use' them without problems. This latter person is more likely to find another reason to use them, which is the rub.

As doc M said, stop back in a couple years. I do wish you the best, but your experience will be 100 times more impressive then.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:15 am 
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NooB wrote:
I know I'm going to get crucified for saying this but oxy got me off subs. I was on nothing but subs for at least 2 years. Did pills for 2 weeks straight and came off those with some sub for 3 days then cold turkey. It wasn't as bad as you think. The 2 weeks got most the sub out of my system then I used a little for just 3 days to get off the oxy. On day 7 opiate/sub free. Say what you want but it's been a long time since I've gone a week sober and I don't plan on going back

Firstly no way will i point my finger but i will rise it higher to get your attention.
What dosage of sub were you on for how long and what dosage when you intervened with oxy and what dose of oxy?
I am at that point where we all ask the question, is there something extra to bump on to get it done. I realize for the many this is not the way but i was never addicted to opiates, they were always used as a softner for Meth come downs. Sure i loved the glove of love they gave but i only ever ran a 3 maybe 4 okay truth it was probably a 7 day habit.
I have been wondering and it makes perfect sense in one argument and obviously not in the vast majority.
How is your situation now, are you still strong?
peace


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:55 pm 
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Quote by mikib: I realize for the many this is not the way but i was never addicted to opiates."

I have to ask again why you don't go on hydrocodone or oxycodone to taper instead of doing it on buprenorphine?! If you are in control with opiates, and since you're not addicted to them there is no reason for you to stay on suboxone. Just figure out the equivalency of your suboxone in oxy and switch over to it! That way you never have to deal with buprenorphine again and you'll be happy!

I tend to think that the fairy tale story that I wrote above is too good to be true. But you should definitely try it, because you're so different from all of the rest of us.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:15 am 
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I'm confused mikib, if u weren't addicted to opiates why were u put on suboxone? If u were able to stop on ur own, why did u start? I would have never started opiate replacement therapy if I didn't have problems with opiates. I'm sure u do support someone using opiates to stop buprenorphine..... u weren't ever addicted to them. That's not typical though and I will never understand why someone would take a medication that's specifically for addiction if they aren't addicted. That's like taking an antidepressant and not being depressed, no logic. Then u start giving advice to ppl who's possibly lost everything because of opiates and say it's ok to stop bupe by using opiates. If I tried to stop suboxone using opiates, you'd never hear from me because I'd be bk in that vicious cycle of active addiction.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Hello Noob,

I just wanted to chime in here. I have been on Suboxone two times in my life. The first time I did taper off of it to about 1-2 mg a day and then i used Opiates to get off of the Suboxone. I guess i just wanted to soften the withdraw . In my case, I ran out of subs so all i had was Opiates and i was able to get off of Subs for a year.

Problem...I ended up staying off of subs for a year but got Cross-addicted to Benzos instead during that year and had to go to Rehab to get off the benzos!!

Once i was off everything after rehab, i still had cravings for "something". So i decided to get back on Subs to help with cravings. AND that is where i am now. Taking a maintenance dose of subs.

So can it be done? yes...but why risk it? I ended up getting addicted to something else in the process. Just thought i would let you know my story.

Now that I am on Subs a second time. I am taking it way more seriously. I quit drinking and smoking and got healthy by exercising. If ....i ever decide to get off subs again, I would definitely go the liquid taper route on subs and get down to Micro dosing . then jump off. But...I seriously doubt i will ever get off subs. I am doing so well on a small dose now that I don't wanna mess up a good thing here.

Please let us know how things go for you. Wishing you the best!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:07 am 
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I'm on day 22. Of course the thought will always be in the back of my mind, to go get high. I have money, I have a car, and all I have to do is make a phone call. I enjoy waking up not having to worry about taking something to get me through the day. The lack of motivation is still present, along with boredom and irritability. I have been drinking a couple beers every other night or so to help with anxiety and sleep. I've never had a problem with alcohol though, I don't enjoy the feeling enough. I had to quit smoking pot in order to obtain a new job. Pot helped out ALOT during the first part of withdrawal's. Anyways, no matter how bored or depressed, I don't ever plan to make that phone call. I've come too far and only plan to go further.

With that being said, does anyone have any experience with vivitrol? My therapist had mentioned it to me before while I was still on sub. I didn't pay any attention to it because I never thought I'd be able to get to the 2 week clean mark (amount of time you have to be clean before getting the vivitrol) but now I'm at 3 weeks, I've been considering it. I have an appointment with my therapist Friday and plan on asking her about it. Just wanted to see if anyone else knows about it, thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:03 am 
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I don't have any personal experience with Vivitrol but my clinic offers it and there's ppl I talk to in our meetings that takes it (our meetings are blended with buprenorphine patients and Vivitrol patients). I don't think that I'd ever want the shot in place of buprenorphine coming off opiates but if you've stopped buprenorphine for 3 weeks and are looking for something like the shot to maintain after ur bupe treatment.... that actually sounds pretty cool to me. My counselor mentioned this just last week. She was talking about ppl who's stopped buprenorphine, getting the shot would be something she'd do. It got me to thinking. I'm not sure it would be for me but it's definitely something worth checking out. Just do ur research. Let us know how it works because I hadn't ever thought about it post buprenorphine.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:53 am 
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Amy-Work In Progress wrote:
Quote by mikib: I realize for the many this is not the way but i was never addicted to opiates."

I have to ask again why you don't go on hydrocodone or oxycodone to taper instead of doing it on buprenorphine?! If you are in control with opiates, and since you're not addicted to them there is no reason for you to stay on suboxone. Just figure out the equivalency of your suboxone in oxy and switch over to it! That way you never have to deal with buprenorphine again and you'll be happy!

I tend to think that the fairy tale story that I wrote above is too good to be true. But you should definitely try it, because you're so different from all of the rest of us.

Amy

Sorry Amy to be getting back to you so late.
Thankyou so much for your input as it perfectly describes what i should do because i dont need suboxone any more. My consulting Doctor for Subs agrees with your conclusions Amy and without prompting or request has offered to prescribe 2 weeks of fast acting full agonist opiate medication followed by 4 days of very low suboxone.
The reasons he mentioned had nothing to do with me being secial in any way however my doc history, stability and age? suggested to him i am indeed very different from the usuall profile of people on suboxone and he and i have full confidence that this will be the least painfull and most effective way to cease forever the suboxone dependancy( thats for you Amy and others ).
I am currently on 2.2mg, been up and down with GI issues along the way but wont go into that being so close to Xmass.
Will drop to .5 before Feb then 2 weeks of a fast acting full agonist followed by 4 days very low sub then a couple of weeks basement work then freedom from current sub dendency (thats for you again Amy merry xmass)
I have to say there is nothing special about me, i am very scared of the withdrawl but not remotely worried about life after suboxone.
Amy i hope for your sake that we are more similar than you would like and that you get of suboxone as soon as you can.
Probably wont post again untill the deed is done and won but no promises.
Gonna say it
Peace people
mikib


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:41 pm 
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That is fantastic news!! I am happy for you that your doctor understands how different it is for people who are dependent as opposed to addicted. Unfortunately for me, I am truly addicted. I think I would certainly have the patience to slowly taper off suboxone if I try one day. However, the cravings I had for opioids was so overwhelming, I have no problem just taking my daily medication and being happy with that. Taking suboxone for me is just like taking my birth control pill, so it's no bother and I don't have side effects.

It's funny to me that you would think I wouldn't want to be like you, dependent instead of addicted. I would love to tell my 19 year old son that I'm not an opioid addict. I would love it if I could go back to my 30s and get grief counseling for my mom's death and my dad's resulting emotional instability instead of reaching for a pill that made me feel warm and loved and comforted. I was one my way to a nursing career, having spent a few years taking prerequisites required for a BA to BS in Nursing Degree. But since my ultimate goal was to become a nurse midwife (with prescribing powers), I had to change career focus. The only silver lining may be that I'm now earning a Masters in Addiction Studies in order to help other addicts. Maybe I can do some good because of what I've been through.

I think that you and your doctor have a great plan and I am excited for the time you will come back and tell us how it went! I hope that you have a very Merry Christmas too and a Happy New Year!

Cheers,

Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:29 am 
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Hey Noob. While I don't have experience with Vivitrol, I have a fair bit of experience with its active drug Naltrexone, both in implant and tablet form.

If I were you, I'd only resort to Vivitrol if you genuinely felt vulnerable to relapse. While it does prevent you from using and getting any effect, I have suspicions that long term naltrexone does interfere with the long term recovery your opioid receptors go through in the first year or two of recovery. My reason for this is that when I was on the naltrexone implant, I could actually subtly feel the naltrexone wear off after 3 months or so. And when it did, cravings recurred. So while it has no agonist action, it does have some kind of action at the mu-receptor. It's for this reason that naltrexone has been associated with a mild reduction in cravings.

So you have to weigh it up. Naltrexone is a much lesser evil to relapse, but if you can get through the first year or two of recovery without it, that would be ideal. Having your opioid receptors free of any drugs, antagonist or agonist, is the ideal scenario for recovery. You will feel symptoms of PAWS, but that's a necessary effect of your brain recovering from it being inundated with opioids for a long period.

That being said, naltrexone doesn't have a good track record with long-term abstinence. The vast majority return to use when they stop taking naltrexone. For that reason it's only reserved for the incredibly motivated patients. And it seems that, if what you say is true about your present attitude, you might actually be one of those. However it seems you might be motivated enough to cope without it too.


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