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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:50 pm 
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What I meant when I said I didn't recommend Wellbutrin to anyone in recovery is that it made me 10 times worse mentally. Although of course I can not say the same thing will happen to others. I just meant if you are just off of suboxone, and are struggling hard mentally you shouldn't risk it that's all. I was already having problems with cravings before Wellbutrin, but after getting on Wellbutrin it was out of control cravings it was 10 times worse.

Hey buddy, the Wellbutrin was tough to get used to the blurry vision was really bad. I couldn't even see lol, it was pretty difficult. After the Wellbutrin I felt a little worse mentally, and finally caved. Yes, I finally took suboxone again after absolutely no narcotic in 3 months. I know it sounds crazy, but I was at the point that I even thought about ending it all. I tried to go to the doctor, but he wouldn't give me anything, but Wellbutrin.

The gabapentin helped, but he said no he can not give that because others are abusing it. Crazy right, how were you able to get on a benzo after having suboxone on your medical history? I was wondering that because I can not get any help because of the stigma. Even though I have a great history no red flags, no overdoses, no dirty urine tests nothing. So Its crazy that I couldn't even get prescribed gabapentin again.

Anyways, I felt I had no choice but to go back to suboxone I can not get the right help and I lost all hope. I know it sounds bad, but I feel normal again and happy. I want to live again instead of hardly existing. You can make it though buddy I know you can just keep looking forward to the day you will feel great again. I think the fact that I have been on something for the past 11 years made this process a lot more difficult.

I feel somewhat guilty, but I would rather live happy on suboxone without constant cravings, anxiety, and depression then struggle for the rest of my life and lose everything I have built. You are stronger than me mentally, and I know you can do it. I am sorry but I just couldn't keep living that way.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:19 pm 
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Don't feel guilty. You didn't do anything wrong!

The thing that is wrong is that any of us would be made to feel bad about taking one of the only two medications that have been shown to work for those of us addicted to opioids!

You should be proud of yourself for using an available medication instead of relapsing on your drug of choice! This medication is allowing you to feel normal and happy. Why is that a bad thing? I am proud of you for making the right decision for you. Don't let anyone else's opinion enter into your decision making.

Please just remember, STN, that you always have a home here. You have learned valuable lessons that can help others. So I hope you stick around and give others the benefit of your hard won wisdom.

You never ever have to feel bad about doing what you needed to do. That's your business, no one else's. I wish I could give you a big hug!

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:29 pm 
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Subtaperingnow, I am very relieved to hear you at already feeling a lot better. We all react differently and I can't imagine going through what you went through. If you're happy and feel alive again then you definitely made the right choice.

As for how I'm prescribed a benzo, I never told any doctors I was on suboxone and I was obtaining it illegally. I never had a script. It wasn't until I quit that I finally started telling doctors about the suboxone. My GP doesn't want me on the klonopin anymore for obvious reasons, but she and the Osych NP I see are kind enough to allow me a few more months before I taper down. The last thing I wanna do is taper off a benzo while I'm still going through PAWS from the bupe.

I am surprised to hear they won't give you ganapentin. Where I live it's actually commonly prescribed with suboxone. I had a buddy who would get his sub script as well as a loooot of gabapentin from the same doctor. I tried gabapentin one time (granted I was sort of trying to abuse it) and I believe I took 3 of them (don't remember mg) and surprisingly it gave me terrible anxiety the whole day.

I hope everything is good with your husband and I hope you keep in touch.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:58 pm 
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Where I go ppl aren't allowed to take gabatin (I never spell that right). I've saw several ppl over the period I've been going there actually get discharged because they were warned to stop taking it and they didn't. I personally see no problems taking it, I used to take it a bit bk in active addiction to stop withdrawal and it worked really well for me. A neighboring clinic lets their patients take it with no problems. I guess it's just up to the doctor maybe..... I have no idea.

I was speaking to a lady a few months ago while I was waiting to see my doctor and she said the doctor had been warning her to stop taking it and she didn't because she felt like she needed it for her nerve pain and she eventually got in trouble and put in IOP instead of discharged. I guess it's hit or miss on how strict the rules are.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:16 pm 
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I would also like to remind everyone that we are all different when it comes to where we are in our addiction. There are those of us that were able to get out of active addiction relatively scott-free. There are those of us who lost everything. Some of us are dealing with childhood trauma or adult trauma. Some of us have more of a genetic heritage of addiction in our family tree.

The point is that we're all different, but this disease does not discriminate!

Comparing ourselves to other addicts is not useful because we are not comparing apples to apples. To say, that one person is mentally stronger than another is not helpful and probably not accurate. Because there are so many variables that go into addiction that it is impossible to identify what "strength" is.

Plus the nature of addiction is such that it creates a barrier to the ability to use the parts of our brains that would help us to stop addictive behavior.

I imagine, using Dr. Junig's story as an example, that people looked at him, with six years sober under his belt, and thought that he was mentally strong. Right up until year seven when he relapsed. And I'm obviously not saying that Dr. Junig isn't awesome. I'm saying that the disorder of addiction is insidious! We are more likely to relapse when we think that we are doing so well! That we are kicking addiction's ass! That we are mentally strong...

There is no hierarchy of addicts. We are all just one slip, one pill, one snort away from a relapse. So don't compare yourself to another addict who is just at a different place in their journey right now. All the comparisons do is make us feel worse about ourselves.

It took strength to make the decision to go back on buprenorphine. You did it despite all the shouting in your head that says it's wrong to be on this medication. You did it despite what society mistakenly thinks is the "right" way to recover.

I challenge you to write down the positives of your decision to go back on your medication. They far outnumber the negatives! You are doing what you need to do to get by. There is no weakness in that.

Amy

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:45 pm 
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Sorry if my soapbox is a little bit much today! :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:31 pm 
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Amy is absolutely right. Not one of us is better or stronger than the other. We are all different and handle/experience things differently.
Subtaperingnow you should be proud of the strength you had to make it over three months.
I hope you stay active on here or we find another way to stay in touch as I feel like we became friends and I'll always be here if you need anything.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:51 pm 
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Man i just love this forum. Its a great tool for my recovery and another weapon towards fighting addiction.


I loved reading this thread, i have also read tons on others quitting from much lower doses and i feel that maybe it would be the better option.

From my experience, the body will get used to whatever you give it. I was on 8mg of sub and i got down to 2mg now for the last 3 months, to be honest, after a couple day minor withdrawal when i drop 2mg, i feel exactly the same.

I went down to 1mg and this is probably the only time i feel my receptors didn't get fully filled. I see you have symptoms but i think in my opinion that you might as well make it even easier and just get down to 1mg. The advice i wanted to add to this thread was that those that are on higher doses, do not fear going down.

I assure you that the body will feel exactly the same on 4mg as it did on 24mg (yes it will take a few days for your body to get used to 4mg and you should always decrease MAXIMUM of 2mg at a time).

The only difference i seen, was that when it was time for my second dose of the day ( i usually do 2 doses a day) my withdrawal effects were quite strong at 8mg and pretty weak now that I'm at 2mg. I split a 2mg +0.5 tab daily, half in morning and half at 4pm. So don't make it tough, get yourself down to 1mg and quit then in my opinion.


I quite sub once after being on it for 10 days (8mg to 2mg in 10 days) and i didn't really feel the full withdrawal till day 5, i think they have a strong half life in my opinion. Remember, its not the drug thats the problem, its us. DO NOT RUSH - make a new life - slowly decrease. I also have ADD and i swear, i do not know if there is any studies, but my ADD / ADHD is GONE. I can focus on ONE THOUGHT now and my mood doesn't change anymore. I am 100% sure its because of the SUBoxone, i never have melt downs.

GOOD LUCK - and remember, you have to WORK HARD for what you want. PREPARE YOUR arsenal of tools to fight this. THIS FORUM is def one of mine.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:26 pm 
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Glad you enjoyed the thread Torontoguy. I just want everyone to do what's best for them so if that means giving people that encouragement to quit, then that's what the point of this thread is. If people don't feel ready they shouldn't quit.

I agree that people should taper to 1mg or less. Ideally .25mg
I can't say it enough that I got very lucky during my acute withdrawals from jumping from 2mg (6mg sort of). My PAWS really suck but they're a small price to pay.

I also totally agree that 24mg or 8mg you're gonna feel the same. Body slowly adjusts to the dose change but you're going to feel the same either way. That's what it was like for me. I remember going down to 4mg because I realized I was wasting so man subs and so much money by taking 16mg a day when 8 did the trick. And then going from 8 to 4 and feeling the same.

Thanks for the kind words

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:21 pm 
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How is everyone doing?
Tomorrow marks 3 months for me!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:00 pm 
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Hey wii,
First, thanks for a great thread, thanks for your kindness to STN as part of it.

For what its worth, I think you stopped closer to 6mg and not 2mg in any case, I think you're the first I can recall since being a member here that stopped around the ceiling like I did who did quite well and came back w updates. Many stop and we hear nothing more. Leaving us hanging as to how they are once off.

I quickly, obviously and clearly learned here I was either lucky, an anomaly or an aberration from the norm. Maybe you too.

I'm now a huge fan of a very long, low and slow taper so folks can just walk off. For those that don't need a long slow low taper, you'll know it!! You'll just know it.

More thanks for coming back w a post - congrats on 3 mos! Please continue to update. For when its appropriate to stop bup, folks need and want hope to read that doing well during and after stopping - is not only possible - but real.

Let us continue to hear from you! P

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:54 pm 
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Thank you Pelican. Yes I too would consider myself to have been closer to 6mg than 2mg, however maybe we should meet in the middle and say it evened out to about 4mg. But no matter what - 2mg, 4mg, or 6mg I believe I got very lucky during the acute withdrawals. They were a cake walk. I am still struggling with some PAWS but it's getting better. I agree, many people just stop updating and you worry they relapsed or just don't remember to post. I will post as long as I know people will still contribute information, encouragement, and their own experiences to the thread.

People who want to quit need to just do it. A slow taper is definitely the right choice as cold turkey jumps can be intense depending on the person. But if a person wants to quit, stop thinking about it, stop reading about it, and just do it. They'll be surprised at how much easier it actually is than those horror stories make it out to be. If a person doesn't feel ready, they should not force themselves because they probably really aren't ready. I just wanna inspire people to do what they think or know is best for them.

Thanks again for the comment. I will keep updating every few days and check responses daily.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:27 pm 
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Hey everyone, today is officially 3 months for me!
I can't believe I made it this far.
How is everyone else doing?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:10 pm 
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Congratulations on 3 months!!! Way to go!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:40 am 
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That's an amazing achievement and you have every right to feel really good about the effort you put into your wellness. It takes will and discipline to do what you have done. It's been inspiring to read along as it's been happening. Thank you for sharing!!

- OpenMind

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:06 pm 
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You're all so great. Thank you for the continued support.
Hope everyone is doing good.
As far as how I'm feeling, I'm still a bit depressed but I think that's coming mostly from the fact that I have a pinched nerve in my neck and my acid reflux is really bothering me. I know I'll get better though.
Not much to really update on.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:12 pm 
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Hi wii, Congratulations on the three months clean. You were one of the lucky ones. Thanks for coming back and reporting how your making it nowadays. I sure hope the PAWS continues to improve. Your forum friend, Angie


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Hey Wii, three months is awesome. I'm curious how bad would you rate the depression, at this point, and throughout? If you could estimate how much you've been happy vs depressed during your 3 months, would you say 50/50? More than that? Less.
I'm very curious because I want to be there one day. Do you feel much different mentally than 90 days ago? How about any cravings?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:30 am 
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Hey Wii congrats on still pushing forward, very inspiring! I'm sorry to hear u got a pinched nerve in ur neck. For most addicts, physical pain can be a trigger. It just brings up old feelings plus knowing we can't take much to keep us comfortable and it just brings up a lot for us. I sure hope u start getting relief from that and I can see how that would effect u in an already somewhat stressful situation.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Thanks Jenn, you've been very supportive of me and I appreciate it a lot. I will keep the pain in mind in terms of being a trigger and heed caution.

Kashhh thanks for the support. As far as my depression goes at the three month mark, I believe most of it is being cause by my physical issues right now. The pinched nerve in my neck is causing a lot of pain and migraine type symptoms. It makes it a little difficult to have total quality of life. I am getting tested for H Pylori in a couple of days because for the past few months I've had bad acid reflux, excessive burping, and recently, fatigue. Those are also ruining my quality of life. But in terms of the depression in my scenario, I have my ups and downs throughout each day. I'd say I have longer periods of feeling happy than depressed. And at least 2 or 3 days of the week I have very mild or no depression at all.
However, everyone is different and honestly if I didn't have these physical things going on I would say I'm probably no more depressed than I was before I quit subs. Some people get it bad like Subtaperingnow did.

Good luck on your journey and feel free to ask me any more questions.

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