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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:09 pm 
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Hello all,

I found this site a few months back and have been reading almost daily since. By far this seems to be the best sub-related forum around. The advice I've found in the innumerable threads I've read has already helped me immensely. Just a warning - I took the liberty of explaining my condition quite specifically, so apologies if anyone is offended or bored by the long post.

I do still, however, have one problem. I'm coming off a 450-510mg/day Oxycodone habit. My daily dose went from about 100mg/day to that level in the last year. I started after breaking 7 ribs in an accident while working in Budapest. Just 3 days after the accident I was due to travel to Indonesia for a sailing vacation with a doctor friend and, concerned about my ability to cope with the trip in that kind of pain, he said "No worries, I've got a bottle here in my bag that will fix you right up!". After the trip, I took the remainder of what he gave me and thought, "wow, I can work my butt off on this!". I guess all that is neither here nor there, so on to my problem:

I had my first appointment last Wednesday. My doctor wrote me a 1 week prescription, gave me all the pertinent info and sent me on my way. Since I wasn't to induct at the doctor's office, I decided to induct at a resort/spa in San Juan. I flew down last Friday, took my last dose at 8pm that day, and went to sleep. I woke up the next day and spent most of the day in either heat-related treatments at the spa or baking on the beach. Later that day, I had kind of leveled off with respect to my withdrawals. Not sure what to do, I stumbled across a post by this site's Dr. concerning a person with a 600mg habit needing to abstain for 24hrs and then just accept he's going to have PWs (I can't find the link at the moment, but it it was one of only 2 or 3 posts with "precipitated withdrawals" as a tag on the blog). At 9pm on Saturday and with no change in my (albeit subjective) COWs score, I went ahead and took my first 1/4 of an 8mg tablet. Nothing happened. I went ahead and "absorbed" another 1/4, then a 1/2, and then 2 more whole tables for a total of 3. I didn't get PWs but I certainly didn't feel "normal". With some OTC sleep aids, I finally fell asleep around midnight.

The last few days have been a bit rocky (Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and [today] Wednesday). My current observations:

    *I had a BM before induction (which is quite a feat after having a 480mg oxycodone habit), had another on Sunday which was my first normal one in quite some time but on Monday and Tuesday I had incredibly loose stool. By that I mean I thought that prolapse was a real concern. My episodes where neither frequent (a couple a day) or overly dehydrating, but abnormal and incredibly unpleasant nonetheless. I've had food and/or water poisoning more times than I can count - kind of an occupational hazard when you travel to developing countries for a living - but this was different. Today I've had some minor stomach discomfort but nothing else to speak of.
    *My energy is in the toilet although I have these rushes where I feel I could run a mile. Yesterday and today I've been able to do a long walk, but during that walk I alternate between feeling that I'm having the time of my life and feeling like I want to lay down in the street.
    *I'm sometimes quite lightheaded, especially when I stand up after sitting for a while. I've seen those little specs of light quite a few times. Interestingly, during my followup exam on Tuesday, the doctor noted by BP had risen since last Wednesday.
    *My legs are aching and a touch restless
    *I'm having trouble sleeping.
    *I sometimes have a disconnected feeling when talking. Other times I don't feel I have the dexterity to speak correctly.
    *I'm quite listless.
    *My doctor asked me about five times if I was still in withdrawal and noted my pupils seemed to indicate so.


I should note that I'm feeling better each day but I certainly want to make sure I'm on the right track. My doctors advice, which doesn't quite sit well with me, was to take 4x 8mg a day for four more days, then discontinue the suboxone, achieve a COWs score of 15 or higher, and then reinduct. Given the high half-life of sub and the fact that I "plateau" for a long time during withdrawal, it seems to me that would take FOREVER.

I'm considering four different possibilities. The first two are obvious...either I'm on too high of a dose or too low. The third choice relates to absorption. I gagged and vomited on each dose during my induction and I've struggled with all the methods I've found on this forum since. I've taken to crushing the pill under my tongue and trying to make it as long as I can (sometimes 5 minutes all the way up to 15 minutes). I'm certainly not doing any of the 1 hr marathons I've read about here. Is it possible that I'm not getting much from the 3x8mg I'm taking in the morning? The fourth possibility is that it is all in my head and that would help explain the "waves" of good and bad I'm feeling. That would also explain the intense discomfort in the morning.

So does this well informed community have any insight for me? Anything would be appreciated. I should like to resume my work as soon as possible.


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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:33 am 
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Hey there, when I got on suboxone, I was taking a fairly similar amount of oxycontin per day....most days I would crush up anywhere from 4 to 8 30mg tabs...some days I was taking as many as 10 or 12 of them.....so, pretty similar to your dosages.....I also have a very, very long opiate abuse history, dating back to about 1978/79 time frame.....heroin was my drug of choice back in those days, but I've not returned to it since the mid 90s.

Anyway, when I was inducted I had not had anything for about 30 hours and was in what I would call mild to moderate withdrawal. I took a single 8mg tablet and let it slowly dissolve under my tongue. I would say it took 15 to 20 minutes to completely dissolve and within 30 minutes I felt MUCH better. Within 45 minutes, I'd have to admit I was quite high. My doctor had prescribed 16mg per day, 8mg in the morning, 8mg in the late afternoon. And after that second dose in the afternoon, I was FLYING!

This concerned me a bit, because I didn't want to be "high" I just didn't want to be strung out any more.....my fears were soon erased however, since by the 4th or 5th day on suboxone, I no longer felt anything from taking it, and in fact, started feeling more normal than I had felt in years.

Hope that helps you out a bit?

And welcome to the forum.


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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:45 am 
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junkie781 wrote:
Hey there, when I got on suboxone, I was taking a fairly similar amount of oxycontin per day....most days I would crush up anywhere from 4 to 8 30mg tabs...some days I was taking as many as 10 or 12 of them.....so, pretty similar to your dosages.....I also have a very, very long opiate abuse history, dating back to about 1978/79 time frame.....heroin was my drug of choice back in those days, but I've not returned to it since the mid 90s.

Anyway, when I was inducted I had not had anything for about 30 hours and was in what I would call mild to moderate withdrawal. I took a single 8mg tablet and let it slowly dissolve under my tongue. I would say it took 15 to 20 minutes to completely dissolve and within 30 minutes I felt MUCH better. Within 45 minutes, I'd have to admit I was quite high. My doctor had prescribed 16mg per day, 8mg in the morning, 8mg in the late afternoon. And after that second dose in the afternoon, I was FLYING!

This concerned me a bit, because I didn't want to be "high" I just didn't want to be strung out any more.....my fears were soon erased however, since by the 4th or 5th day on suboxone, I no longer felt anything from taking it, and in fact, started feeling more normal than I had felt in years.

Hope that helps you out a bit?

And welcome to the forum.


Thanks for the welcome. After waiting 24 hours, I was scoring about 12, conservatively, on the COWs chart. As I started taking my dose I certainly didn't feel worse, but neither did I feel better. I did manage sleep so it did have a major impact, but I wasn't comfortable nor I have sustained comfort for any long period of time since induction (today is day 6).

Is it possible that my tolerance is just outside of suboxone's capabilities and I'm still having mild w/d until my tolerance comes down? If so, should I really do what my doctor recommended and stop the suboxone and re-induct when I'm scoring above a 15 on the COWs chart? Or is this just something I need to wait out? I'm improving each day and am sustaining longer periods of a somewhat normal feeling each day.

And just to be clear, I'm actually quite pleased with how this has gone so far other than this one little issue. I'm thrilled to be free of those damn things.


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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:06 pm 
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Hi deemanchu,

It does take a few, maybe several, days to adjust to the suboxone. Some people feel high the first days, others just a little loopy. That will pass though. If you think you're still having withdrawals, look at your pupils. Withdrawals normally include dilated pupils. When I'm on suboxone my pupils are tiny. Maybe that will help tell you what's going on a bit more.

Are you absorbing the medication better now than you were the first few days? If you were throwing up you may not have absorbed any of it. Are you now letting ALL of it dissolve under your tongue before spitting or swallowing? You should also abstain from food or drink for about 15-20 minutes after you dose.

Most people who have trouble inducing are those on methadone or something like a fentynal patch. They stay in they system longer so starting suboxone can cause precipitated withdrawals. But even at high doses of regular, short-acting, full-agonist opiates, I haven't heard of someone having trouble inducing. With that said, I'm really nobody - just a recovering addict on an online forum, so take it for what it's worth. I'm sure others will chime in with their knowledge and experience.

You might just have to give it time. Please let us know how you're doing.

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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:59 pm 
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Thanks for all the helpful replies!

I am undoubtedly absorbing more of the medication now than at the beginning. That's not to say, however, that I'm doing well with it. This morning I managed over 10 minutes per tab. I've read the "best way to take" thread all the way through. I have no problem completely dissolving the tablet under my tongue...I just have problems not swallowing and ESPECIALLY holding my slobber AFTER the tablet is dissolved. Right now I'm breaking each tablet in half, putting each half under one side of my tongue and waiting as long as I can (until I start gagging normally). Then I repeat 3 times. Would it perhaps be better for me to try two at once? I guess what I'm asking is if the absorption time required has a linear relationship to the ratio of pill surface area to under-tongue area.....meaning if one were to dissolve two tablets under one's tongue, would you have to hold them for twice as long as a single tablet? The same time? If the answer is the same time, then I'm sure I could do better with two tablets at once as that would drastically reduce the amount of time the entire process takes.

I am doing all this prior to brushing my teeth in the morning and I have been a good boy with respect to not eating or drinking anything after I take my dose.

As far as the pupils go....yes, they are still a bit dilated and by no means pinned. They are much more responsive and smaller today than yesterday and yesterday was better than Tuesday, etc. My doctor commented on my pupils when I had my appointment on Tuesday.


Thanks again for all the help. This is a fantastic resource.


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 11:40 am 
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Hello Deemanchu,
Welcome to the forum. I am new also, but wanted to say hi! I had a similar habit -- was taking 12 to 15 10mg percocet a day and also using a fentanyl patch (the wrong way -- slurping it down!)..... I am now on 24 mgs of Suboxone a day -- I take 12 in the morning and 12 in the afternoon around 4:00 p.m. -- I haven't been able to reduce down to once a day -- which is something I am going to work on over the next few weeks.

I have to say that I also have a difficult time with the absorption which could be why I am on such a high dose... Who knows. I do have to say that I am on my 10th week now (today is the mark of my 10th week!) and I couldn't be happier..... I am so happy! And I am sure that you will be as well.

As an aside -- I am quite jealous of your travels.... I used to travel when I was younger and without kids! How fun.... Hope you can get the subs straightened out and enjoy the rest of your life! I am rooting for you.

BEST, FAD


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:09 pm 
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FAD wrote:
Hello Deemanchu,
Welcome to the forum. I am new also, but wanted to say hi! I had a similar habit -- was taking 12 to 15 10mg percocet a day and also using a fentanyl patch (the wrong way -- slurping it down!)..... I am now on 24 mgs of Suboxone a day -- I take 12 in the morning and 12 in the afternoon around 4:00 p.m. -- I haven't been able to reduce down to once a day -- which is something I am going to work on over the next few weeks.

I have to say that I also have a difficult time with the absorption which could be why I am on such a high dose... Who knows. I do have to say that I am on my 10th week now (today is the mark of my 10th week!) and I couldn't be happier..... I am so happy! And I am sure that you will be as well.

As an aside -- I am quite jealous of your travels.... I used to travel when I was younger and without kids! How fun.... Hope you can get the subs straightened out and enjoy the rest of your life! I am rooting for you.

BEST, FAD


Thanks for everyone's support. Things continue to improve day by day, although still having some GI problems and achy legs. I've been sticking at 24mgs/once a day. Since I'm improving, I'm hoping that "normal" returns as my brain adjusts to this. I really don't want to go up to 32mgs, especially if it won't help.

FAD: Yes, travel is a blast. I've been in the air for 12 years now. My longest "stay-still" was 17 days after I got home after 9/11. I've never unpacked in that time. :) Traveling for a living rewires the brain just like anything else you do all the time, I suppose. I get antsy if I'm in the same place for more than a week. I left the last subox-related forum I was on because, while getting ready for my induction I made an offhand comment about having to travel shortly thereafter as I do so for a living (300days a year!) and I got SLAMMED by about 20 people telling me that I had to discontinue the travel to recover as it is obsessive behavior and enables me to "hide from my problems". Ummmmm, no. I travel 300 days a year because I like to eat food (meaning I like to get paid). What I do best requires going to see people. Ever since _Up in the Air_ was made in to a movie (I think only like 4 people - and I'm one of them - read the book) everyone like to diagnose road warriors. Plus, George Clooney would never had made Concierge Key with his flying in the movie. I fly 200k+/yr on AA, have done so since 1999 and I just have an Executive Platinum card with 5 "million miler" emblems on it and I've sure never picked up any single girls because of it (although maybe that has to do with my SO traveling with me on second thought). Oh wait, this content belongs in yet another forum..... :)

I would really hate to think of my "discomfort" if I tried to modify my lifestyle that much right now....no distracting work, COMPLETE loss of my rhythm. It would be comparable to telling a lifelong work from home person - let's say she's a heavy smoker - that while starting Suboxone, they had to modify their sleep schedule to sleeping during the day and quit smoking at the same time. Way too much to handle at once!

Thanks again for everyone's help and if anyone disagrees with my sticking at 24mgs plan, I'd love to hear some opinions. While it is decreasing, this alternating "rushing" normalcy and crappy-feeling is getting seriously annoying.


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 5:58 pm 
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Happy flying! I really don't recommend quitting your job at the same time as starting suboxone. Sounds ridiculous to me. Personally I think one of the benefits of suboxone is that you don't have to change everything about your life as they often recommend with 12-step programs alone. You can even keep your relationship with suboxone which I find to be a great bonus since my relationship is one of my primary reasons for not wanting to be high on drugs all the time.

I really have no idea about the dosing. It does sound like you have been in a bit of withdrawal. I do know that you can pack as many of those little suckers as you need all in at once and dose the same amount of time (no double time). Over time, I have found a way to "house" the fluids so that I really can't taste them while they are in there if I don't want to. But I don't mind the taste, probably because I am a smoker and my taste buds are dead. I am sure this stuff is pretty bitter and tart if you can taste it. But I do think there are ways of tasting it less. Your doctors idea might not be a bad one either. When I started I had a 270mg oxycontin habit per day and started on 24mg sub per day and it worked alright for me. I am now on 8mg per day with 12mg on some days for pain.

I wish you well. I also wish you well with your list on taking suboxone into different countries. I am interested in what you find out. I suppose I now have a contact with all the info if I want to go somewhere :-) Take care!

Cherie


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:28 pm 
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Hey Deemanchu,
Sounds kind of crazy to recommend that someone quit their job to get clean..... I mean it isn't as if you are working for a drug dealer or anything..... Oh well. People have lots of opinions and one of the reasons I like this forum so much -- people seem to really respect others and their situations....

Hope you are finally leveling off. I know it took me over 2 weeks to finally tell myself that it was okay to be on 24 mgs. I struggled for a very long time with that one! Now I am satisfied that I am taking what I need to take, regardless of the absorption problem. And luckily for me I have health insurance and a doctor who is willing to prescribe me that much. I would probably be looking to reduce my intake if I didn't have insurance! You know?

Take care and please keep us all posted. I look forward to hearing how you are doing. Cheers, FAD


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 9:58 pm 
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The anonymous nature of the internet definitely allows people with stronger opinions to be more aggressive than they would ever dream of being in real life. Add to that the unique little fiefdoms that you seem to always see when you have busy forums that are dominated by a handful of people with 10s of thousands of posts and something innocent like saying I have to travel for work after induction becomes a rallying point. I had the exact same "I certainly don't work for a drug dealer" response initially, however, I left after I figured out that that little comment had kind of ignited the 12-step v. sub debate (again). As Dr. J has blogged about, people on Sub generally aren't at that point of ultimate desperation, rather most are trying to avoid it, so fully buying in to the most extreme 12-step views can be hard. That's not to say, of course, that there aren't different "flavors" of 12-step programs....hell that even varies from meeting to meeting....and that's also not to say that 12-step programs are bad in any way, rather the opposite is true. For a big percentage of those of us on suboxone though, I think a particular "flavor" and much less militant type of 12-step is what will probably work best. After reading hundreds of threads here I see that sentiment a lot with people saying, "I had to find a more chilled meeting", "The first group had a problem with me being on sub", "I finally found a more relaxed group and it is working well for me". It is probably the ultimate, in forum vernacular, YMMV situation.

Thanks for the well wishes on the "Countries" list project. After I started looking around I was just amazed at the lack of info out there. So many countries are restrictive on prescriptions and not just for things like Opiates. In addition to my brush in China, I had a business partner that joined my SO and I on vacation in Western Turkey a few years ago. Both of us got horrible salt rash, probably because of some unusually hot days playing in the sea (which, btw, is about as fun as a score of 15 on the COWs chart....That is honestly the closest I've ever felt to insanity even with generous extra helpings of Oxycodone). We went to a Turkish doc-in-a-box, were given a really strong prescription antihistamine, were better in a few days, and left about the same time. He went a non-schengen EU country and I went back to the states. Well, his Turkish branded antihistamine had an ingredient in it that, under its Turkish name looked awful lot like a no-no drug in his destination country. He got randomly selected for a full customs toss when he arrived, the similarity in names caused the agent to pause, and, as almost always happens, even though he was cleared of having the banned substance they popped him on a technicality.....not having proper documentation for a prescription. Generally speaking if a customs official is forced to take the time to research something to clear you, you ARE going to get in trouble for something....be it something like this or something stupid like a apple you took off the airplane and forgot to declare. The consequences are huge. In his case he had to return for 9 hearings and ended up spending about $50k between extra flights back, local and stateside attorneys, US State Department BS, and some large fines. The fact that he is a bit of a a-hole under stress certainly didn't help matters and probably made the difference between getting in trouble and not.

Every time I see "Joe OnceAYearFlier" flying somewhere overseas on his package holiday with his 2 gallon ziplock filled with every mild opiate, SSRI, benzo, and god knows what else I cringe. I also want to get that list together for myself. I've spent a couple years smuggling my oxycodone in to several dozen countries and wasting time on planning my "day pack" to last me until landing so I could un-hide my real stash that, now that I'm on subs and hopefully will be able to carry them legally, I'm freaking thrilled to get my time back and not have to worry about going to jail. Of course if I'm required to travel somewhere that has a problem with Sub, I'm back to my old ways. I have no choice. But otherwise I can just keep the proper documentation for wherever I'm headed with me and STOP the wasted time and risk, which, along with the other 5,000 improvements I'm getting from sub, is quite exhilarating.

The information in this forum and the Doctor's other sites is fantastic. The amount of support I've gotten from just reading here for a few weeks has been 10x more helpful than anything else available to me as I prepared to start my subs. Unlike all the other sites, this one isn't polluted by anit-sub fanatics that chime in and destroy any possible motivation one might have built up. Just being able to talk to people going through the same thing is incredibly helpful and the regular contributors here and the doctor both deserve my gratitude and probably the gratitude of the thousands of other "readers" that haven't posted yet (like me during my induction).


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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 7:03 am 
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Hey Deemanchu,
I just wanted to say hello today, let you know that I read your last post, and wish you well.... Hope you are better.... I don't have anything to add, but wanted to say -- what a fun and interesting post..... You definitely have quite an interesting life and very fun stories!

Have a great day. I look forward to hearing from you often. Best, FAD


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Hi Dee,

I just wanted to say hello and welcome you to the forum. As you have already noticed this is an awesome forum full of people with awesome advice and great support. I have also been to those other forums which lead me to use suboxone only for a short term detox and I failed miserably. I just never felt comfortable in my own skin and relapsed several times. I was really grateful to find this forum full of people I could relate to and am doing much better using Sub for long term treatment.

I also wanted to let you know that I was also using huge amounts of oxycontin, averaging 400 - 500mg a day and even more if I could afford it. When I inducted on Sub, I tried several times and I don't know why but I always went in to precipitated withdrawals and got really sick. It took me at least two weeks to feel comfortable and stable on sub. I thought like you, that for some reason Sub was just not going to work for me. I thought that maybe because I was taking so much oxy, that the Sub was not covering the withdrawals. Since then, I've talked to several other people that were taking the same amount of oxy, so I am not sure why I had so much trouble. I think it's pretty rare though, and I just want you to know that I did feel better after a couple of weeks. It's interesting that your Sub doc told you to reinduct after two weeks, because that is exactly what I did, although I did it completely on my own. It was just that every day I was taking a different amount of Sub trying to find the right dose. So, after two weeks, I let mylsef go back in to withdrawals and then took 2mg at a time, waited an hour, and then took 2mg more until I found a dose that I was comfortable with. I am also still in a lot of pain so I also take Sub for pain, so that was also a factor in finding the right dose. Everyone is so different when it comes to dosing and we all have different side effects so it's really hard to tell anyone what dose they should be on.

I am also from Canada and I have no idea why, but it's really difficult to find a doctor to prescribe Sub. Sub is also different in Canada which is also strange because it is made by the same company. It is white and has a strong lemon flavour, not bitter at all. It also comes in blister packages of seven 8mg, and then it is packaged in a box. It is alsomanaged the same way as methadone, meaning for the first three months you have to go to the clinic every day to get your dose. I have been fortuante to get my family doc to prescribe it for pain, so we have somehow got around those guidlines and I do get monthly scripts which I am very thankful for. I am his one and only patient so I am pretty much on my own as far as dosing. Have you been to Canada in your travels?

I think it is awesome that you get to travel the world. That has always been my ultimate dream, to travel. I am a teacher and have been for over 20 years and I am so much looking forward to retiring so we can travel. I want to start by going to Europe. I have been there once when I was younger with my parents and we actually lived in Sardinia for seven years. It was awesome there and I want to go back as soon as I am able to.

Anyway, I am glad that you found this forum and have seen such a huge difference in the support you get here. I hope that you feel better soon, be patient, the Sub will work, I'm sure you will feel a lot better very soon. Let me know if you have any other questions!

Take care,
Ginger


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 12:46 pm 
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Wow, thanks again everyone's for the kind replies.

Well, today is my eighth day of suboxone (I inducted last Saturday evening, so I don't count that first dose since I felt like hell). Things have been steadily improving. My RLS is way down although still a little bothersome. My energy is starting to come back. I still get lightheaded maybe once a day when I stand up suddenly, but once a day is sure better than every time.

Thankfully my appetite has started to come back. Looking back, I wonder how much of my w/ds were related to not eating right and how much were related to the subs. 4 days ago I was disgusted by even the smell of food. This morning I had an early flight and when they started baking the biscuits and heating up the omelets, the funniest thing happened. My stomach growled. It almost frightened me. While I didn't eat my entire breakfast, I at least consumed about half of it...so that's an improvement.

My ability to sleep is the only symptom that seems to be getting worse or at least less predictable and manageable. I've been disciplined about taking my dose in the same time window each morning....that being between 7am and 11am and I've been taking it all at once. I've found that I have a "window" when I can go to sleep each night and if I miss that I'm screwed. The night before last I just cat-napped for maybe 15 minutes at a stretch for the entire 7hrs I forced myself to stay in bed.

Oh well, that's a small price to pay to be free of oxycodone and to be free of spending $5k a month on pills. My so-called "rushes" (or so I've named them) when I feel normal now take up about 2/3 of my waking day so I hope that will continue to improve over the coming week.

ginger: Your 2 week ride seems to be the case for a lot of people. I've seen dozens of posts from people who took a couple weeks to stabilize. I guess I'm in the same boat, although fortunately I didn't feel the p/w's you describe. I just kind of leveled off after starting my subs 24hrs after my last 30mg of roxi. The day I was inducting I did find a blog post by Dr. J concerning a patient on 600mg of oxycodone a day. He said something to the effect of "he would need to wait 48-72hrs before inducting, so since he'd probably relapse in that time it is better for him to induct at 24hrs and then feel bad for a couple days from the p/w's". That's why I inducted at 24hrs. I took my last dose Friday night and by Saturday afternoon I had kind of leveled off with respect to my COWs score. After finding that post and also noticing that I hadn't gotten any worse in like 6 or 7 hours, I took my first crumb fully expecting the dreaded P/Ws. While I didn't get any worse, I didn't feel "normal" by any means. I just kind of calmed down to the point where I could manage some sleep a few hours later. I felt exactly the same the next morning, even after dosing, and things just improve by a small margin each day. As long as I continue to get better, I'm not complaining. At least I've been able to mostly function and keep my schedule since I started. Had I tried to taper and then jumped off cold turkey, I would have been completely out of radar range for a heck of a lot longer than a week. That just isn't an option right now.

What part of Canada are you in? I love Canada. We have a small base in Toronto so I find myself there about once a month. I've only been to Montreal and Vancouver maybe a dozen times each and probably less than a half off those trips have been for work. Maybe 8 years ago I spent 10 days at a bush flying school. The beauty and unspoiled nature of the northern parts of the country were utterly enrapturing. Pity I no long have the time for such indulgences. :(


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:49 pm 
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Hi Dee,

I am happy to hear that you are starting to feel a little more stable. I have never really had rls, thank goodness, because it sounds like a really irratating withdrawal symptom. It's interesting that you have read that several people have had difficulty the first two weeks, because I had heard from so many more people that felt so good from day 1 and I so wish I had been one of those people and I may not have ended up having a few relapses. Anyway, it is what it is, and today I feel a lot better. I actually had a doctor's appointment today and it was so good to finally be able to tell him I was doing well and that for the first time in my adult life I am not craving opiates. He was so happy to hear that and reassured me that he would keep prescribing Sub to me as long as I wanted it. I am a little concerned that he is talking about retiring and I told him that today and he promised me that he would help me find another doc that is okay to give me scripts for Sub long before he retires. I felt a little better hearing that BUT I also know that there is no other doc in my city that will prescibe it, so we'll see.

I live about a 2 to 3 hour drive from Toronto, east of Toronto and I love it here. I live close to Lake Ontario and I spend as much time as possible on the water or at the beach. We have some of the most beautiful beaches in the world here considering we are not on the ocean, which I am sure do not compare.

Getting your apetite back is HUGE, and you should be feeling a lot better really soon. I can remember the first meal I was able to eat after about 10 days and after that I started eating better and honestly since then, have not felt better in my life, or at least since I discovered opiates. Actually the first 6 months or so I thought I was in heaven when I discovered oxycontin, it solved ALL of my problems. It was very soon after that though, that it turned on me and it's been a ride in hell since.

What dose are you on? I only ask because I had a few side effects at first, too. I thought maybe I needed more sub but that made me feel worse, so I did the opposite and took less, and finally found a dose that I was comfortable at. 16mg for me at least was way too high and 10-12 mg is good depending on my pain level. If I am in a lot of pain I have to take an extra 2mg in the night if I wake up uncomfortable. Sub does keep some people from sleeping so if you are taking it too late in the dayit could be the cause of your sleep issues.

I am glad to see you posting all over the board and that you are comfortable posting. It took me a long to do that, so you are way ahead of the game. I hope you get through the rest of your symptoms soon. Happy travelling, I am still SO jealous!

Take care,
Ginger


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 2:14 pm
Posts: 30
ginger61 wrote:
Hi Dee,

I am happy to hear that you are starting to feel a little more stable. I have never really had rls, thank goodness, because it sounds like a really irratating withdrawal symptom. It's interesting that you have read that several people have had difficulty the first two weeks, because I had heard from so many more people that felt so good from day 1 and I so wish I had been one of those people and I may not have ended up having a few relapses. Anyway, it is what it is, and today I feel a lot better. I actually had a doctor's appointment today and it was so good to finally be able to tell him I was doing well and that for the first time in my adult life I am not craving opiates. He was so happy to hear that and reassured me that he would keep prescribing Sub to me as long as I wanted it. I am a little concerned that he is talking about retiring and I told him that today and he promised me that he would help me find another doc that is okay to give me scripts for Sub long before he retires. I felt a little better hearing that BUT I also know that there is no other doc in my city that will prescibe it, so we'll see.


My comment about finding other people that had a week or two adjustment period was phrased poorly. What I meant to say was that while I've read mostly stories from people that felt better within a couple hours, I've also read quite a few stories from people that took a while to get used to the subs. I didn't mean that a 2 week adjustment period was the norm, rather I was pointing out that there seem to be enough posts to at least reassure me that I'm not the only one that took some time to adapt.

ginger61 wrote:
I live about a 2 to 3 hour drive from Toronto, east of Toronto and I love it here. I live close to Lake Ontario and I spend as much time as possible on the water or at the beach. We have some of the most beautiful beaches in the world here considering we are not on the ocean, which I am sure do not compare.

Getting your apetite back is HUGE, and you should be feeling a lot better really soon. I can remember the first meal I was able to eat after about 10 days and after that I started eating better and honestly since then, have not felt better in my life, or at least since I discovered opiates. Actually the first 6 months or so I thought I was in heaven when I discovered oxycontin, it solved ALL of my problems. It was very soon after that though, that it turned on me and it's been a ride in hell since.

What dose are you on? I only ask because I had a few side effects at first, too. I thought maybe I needed more sub but that made me feel worse, so I did the opposite and took less, and finally found a dose that I was comfortable at. 16mg for me at least was way too high and 10-12 mg is good depending on my pain level. If I am in a lot of pain I have to take an extra 2mg in the night if I wake up uncomfortable. Sub does keep some people from sleeping so if you are taking it too late in the dayit could be the cause of your sleep issues.

I am glad to see you posting all over the board and that you are comfortable posting. It took me a long to do that, so you are way ahead of the game. I hope you get through the rest of your symptoms soon. Happy travelling, I am still SO jealous!

Take care,
Ginger


Right now I'm taking 24mgs. My plan is to log 4 "normal" days, reduce my dose, then stabilize for 4 days...wash, rinse, repeat....until I find my minimum dose. I think I'll hang out there for a while and probably start a real taper this fall. I know part of the reason I'm taking 24mgs is because I'm just the biggest baby in the world when it comes to this absorption thing. I'm getting better but I still find myself so focused on that nasty goo in my mouth and so worried about swallowing that I let the goo get too close to my throat and I gag. The "painting" method just doesn't seem to work for me. All that tongue movement causes waaaaay too much saliva to build up in my mouth and prevents me from actually "painting" the dose around my mouth. My method right now is to either break the pills in half and stick them under my tongue or, if I have the time and the facilities, to crush them in some "ketchup cups" I swiped the other day and then dump the powder under my tongue. The latter method really works well, but it requires some privacy and consistent downtime to invest in that preparation......and that's something that I don't always have.

I am being a good boy though and dosing once a day at about the same time in the morning (subject to timezone changes).

Yesterday afternoon I had a good 6+hr run of feeling normal, so things continue to improve.

Thanks again guys for all the wonderful advice and support.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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