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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:38 am 
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Well, true to form I didn't make that one Sub last 4 days. So this is day day 2 no Sub for me and my nose is dripping like a faucet. Prior to that Sub I had been off a couple of days, and I had been off for four days shortly before that. So I don't have a lot stacked up in my system. Honestly, by Wed. When he wants to induce me the worst of it should be over. So why even go back on? I really would have preferred to prepare myself for another Sub detox, but it is what it is. I took half a klonopin just for the anxiety I have about the dreaded day 3. Don't worry though, I hate benzos in general, and I only have one more, so I won't get started on those.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:32 am 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Damn Lilly, I'm sorry to hear that things are going the way that they are. Leave it to a good ol' doctor to send you out to the streets to score. Moron. Anyway, whatever you decide to do, we are here for you. I think by the time your appointment rolls around, you are gonna have a pretty good idea of what you want to do. Just take it a day at a time, and let us know what you decide to do.

That sucks about your copay too...blah. Anyway, keep us posted, and good luck![/font]

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:06 pm 
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So I'm at about 4pm on day three and I really dont feel too bad. I did take another 0.5mg klonopin for the anxiety, and some ibuprofen for the aches, but I'm ok. I got up and taught my Sunday school class today, then I took my kids to a farmers market, and I started a pot roast. So I feel like I'm pretty high functioning. I did have a few moments where I wanted to snap and run out for Sub or any opiate - but i didn't.
I think it's true what a few people have said before me. The WD from Sub gets easier after you've done it a couple of times. I dont know if it's just because phychologically you know you will survive it, or if your body becomes more resilient somehow. But I'm really not waiting for the other shoe to drop. I figure if I get through the next 3 days or so things will be looking up. Which means, no, I don't want to go and re-induce on Wednesday.
That's how I feel right now anyway, for what it's worth.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:45 am 
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Well it's Monday morning and day 4 CT off Sub. So I called the doctor's office and cancelled my "induction" on Wednesday. I mean why start back up after going through this? I really don't feel too bad, but I'm disgusted over this whole situation.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:22 am 
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LILLYVAL you are back!

For ages I was wondering how you might have been travelling. Even though you've slipped, it's good to see you back... and alive.

It's really important that you think about the decision you're gunna make. Impulsive decisions lead to impulsive actions. Also don't beat yourself up about picking up. You kinda had to go off Sub against your will. You were dealt a pretty shit hand from the start. Who knows how you'd go if you had the chance to get off Sub in your own time, if you felt comfortable and confident enough in yourself.

If you're gunna go with Sub-free, you're gunna have to do something different. Have you looked into Vivitrol? It's another option if you still wanna have a bit of insurance against relapse. But that has a danger too that people should be aware of.

If you're gunna go back with Sub, who cares if your doc doesn't know shit? All of us combined here on this forum have more wealth of knowledge than 1000 Sub doctors. He can be your walking talking script pad and we'll be the therapy :lol:

Be safe.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:44 pm 
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I had a really bad day. Physically it wasn't too bad, but the depression kicked in with a vengeance. I spent the whole day in bed. Then someone who owes me $ called and said she has a script. So I caved and I got some, took 2mg. Within 2 hours I was making dinner and cleaning the house like a white tornado. I just can't believe the hold Sub has on me. I honestly feel its much worse than my original drug of choice. At least with that I got high and came down. With my 2 1/2 years on Sub it was on my receptors 24 hours a day. Now I can NOT function without it. I rue the day I ever started taking it, I really do. I HATE that it has such a hold on me. I'm not trying to start a controversy, this is just how I feel right now.

On the other hand, a woman I was in outpatient with told me today that out of all of us I'm the only one who hasn't relapsed. Why? because Suboxone works for me. It takes away my cravings and the blockade does its job (because I did try to use on it in the past and it didn't work, even if I went off a couple of days). It's really a double edged sword. It works, but for me the side effects are horrible - so I hate being on it. I'm really, really discouraged. Plus, I need to keep looking for a doctor. When I went to get the Sub today, the girl was cocked when I got there. I can't deal with having to interact with people who are using to get my Sub. I have to get a legit prescription again.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:58 pm 
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Wow Lillyval, you are really true to yourself. And I really admire that in you. You don't want your money going to the black market, and that is great. You don't want people using drugs, and you haven't relapsed. You know what's right and wrong. I totally understand how you wanted to use the suboxone and got things done around the house. It is amazing how the opiates work. Would we be cleaning crazy without the opiates if we never used them? Or does it really lift the depression off of some people? It is such an ethical debate. Sometimes I wonder if people have different brains and the subs could help us for life. But of course there is the other side of that, in my head saying that that is just an excuse. I understand how you hate that sub has a hold on you. I will tell you this: I have accomplished more in my sub-taking months (a year) than I have in pretty much my whole life. I won 2 prestigious awards at my college, enrolled in grad school, and am at the top of my classes right now. I never would have dreamed I would do that. Could I have done it without the sub? I dont know. I didn't have much interest in life before I started using opiates. But I agree with you, I don't like the way sub has a hold on us.

It is OK, you are not in pain anymore. And you will be able to go the doctor, and everything will be OK. You got through this, and you made the right choice and did not go out and score.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Lilly, I'm sorry you're having such a rough time. I hear you about the post-opiate depression - that was what led me to relapse again and again. I could get through the physical stuff, but not the depression. It's not like the world stops while you recover and I had to function somehow...even if it was in a really unhealthy way.

I don't really have any advice for you, but I wanted you to know that I'm rooting for you to find a way through this. I think I feel about antidepressant medication the way you describe feeling about Sub; it works, but I hate the side effects, hate being dependent on it, etc. So I go off and on and back off again trying to figure out what works. It's a dilemma for sure.

Is your new doctor going to treat your depression as well? Are you taking anything for that? I'm only asking because I wonder if you are able to get your depression managed, maybe it will be easier for you to sort out what you want to do regarding Suboxone vs abstinence. I know when I am depressed the logical part of my brain seems to take a vacation and my decisions are really influenced by my emotional state. I don't think I could have tapered off Suboxone if I was dealing with a depressive episode at the time, and I did have to go back on Wellbutrin during my taper and my jump.

In any case, I'll be sending good thoughts your way, for whatever that's worth. I hope some better days are ahead for you.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:39 am 
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Thanks you guys, I really appreciate your kind words. Even though I have some supportive people in my life, this situation makes me feel so alone. You guys are the only ones who really understand about the Suboxone.
I actually am on Lexapro right now, and when I went off Sub in Dec. I was on two AD's. But honestly, I feel like the Sub itself helps the most with my depression. Yesterday, I took one of those daily pill holders and put in 2mg Sub for each day this week. Then I gave the rest of what I picked up to my husband to hold. I'm hoping to maybe be able to stabilize at a very low dose, like 1-2mg, where I can benefit from the med but minimize the side effects.

The reason I gave it to him to hold is that when I have Sub I tend to take more when I'm feeling stressed, even though I know it doesn't work that way. It's an old habit from my pill popping days that I haven't been able to overcome. So I end up constantly increasing my dose, which worsens the side effects. (this is also why I cant taper successfully; when i have a bad day i take more). It's so stupid, I keep doing the same thing over, expecting a different result. This is why I didn't do well when I went off Sub in December. I had continued my addictive behaviors while I was on it, and my Sub doc enabled me. If I ran out early he gave me more. He always said taking more Sub was better than turning to opiates.

Anyway, my plan now is to actively work on my addictive behaviors before I go off again. I started therapy, I have a sponsor and I need to get to some more meetings or groups. I also need to find a doctor that will work with me. I really don't want to do any of this, but nothing's going to change if I don't do something different.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:30 am 
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Just an update: 2mg didn't cut it for me, it gives me a "stoned" feeling and I think it's because I'm below the ceiling, so it's acting more like a full agonist. So I raised my dose to 4mg, which seems to be better, but now I'm in danger of running out again. I'm still actively looking for a new Sub doc.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:20 pm 
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Wait wait wait... more sub can make you feel less stoned than less sub? I had no idea! Is that right?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Yes, the idea behind Sub is that you reach a steady state once a certain amount is in your system. Once you have reached this "ceiling" you don't feel your dose, because at that point you are just maintaining what your body has adjusted to. That's why a lot of Sub users get pissed when people say Sub is a "legal high". When used properly it doesn't get you high.
If your dose is too low (under ~4mg) you don't reach that steady state so you "feel" your dose (and for me that hasn't been a good feeling lately).

In other news, a doc I had high hopes for called me. I mean the doc HERSELF called! She asked me all kinds of detailed questions, and I told her quite a bit. Then after all that she said she isn't taking new patients and doesn't have a waiting list. I could not believe it! I couldn't believe I gave her all that personal information for no reason. I'm still stunned. Plus, she recommended calling the office I just decided not to go with this week. *sigh*


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:50 pm 
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omGGGG -- what a waste! You tried the suboxone official website to see all the docs u can call in the area right?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:08 pm 
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[font=Comic Sans MS]Wait a minute...she actually "interviewed" you?!?!?! :o What the hell is wrong with her!? She is full of shit that she doesn't have any openings. She is also full of shit that she doesn't have a waiting list. She calls her potential patients and SCREENS them! At least that is what it sounds like to me. I am so sorry Lilly. That just pissed me off when I read that. Wasting your time like that. Sheesh, I'd call her office, leave a different name, go through all that shit again and waste HER time!!! Sorry....

You are gonna make it through this. Something will turn up. I admire you for not wanting to go out on the streets to buy your sub. I think it would creep me out to have to deal with people who were half in the bag, when I am trying to get clean. Funny,,,it never bothered me when I was using...

Keep letting us know how everything is going. I am following this thread and keep checking up on you. I am sending good vibes your way, and hoping it all works out for you. I would also do what IM recommended and see about finding a doc from that website if you haven't already. Did you look through the section that is on this forum to see if anyone posted about a doc in your area? It's worth a shot anyway. OK, try to keep your head up, and have a good night.[/font]

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:26 pm 
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Goodness Gracious, WTF is wrong with that doctor?? She spent that much time on the phone with you just to tell you that she's not accepting new patients and then she has the gall to tell you that she doesn't even have a waiting list??

It sounds like she just didn't want you for a patient and if it was me, I'd much rather she just told me that she didn't want me for a patient.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:52 am 
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Lillyval wrote:
Yes, the idea behind Sub is that you reach a steady state once a certain amount is in your system. Once you have reached this "ceiling" you don't feel your dose, because at that point you are just maintaining what your body has adjusted to. That's why a lot of Sub users get pissed when people say Sub is a "legal high". When used properly it doesn't get you high.
If your dose is too low (under ~4mg) you don't reach that steady state so you "feel" your dose (and for me that hasn't been a good feeling lately).

In other news, a doc I had high hopes for called me. I mean the doc HERSELF called! She asked me all kinds of detailed questions, and I told her quite a bit. Then after all that she said she isn't taking new patients and doesn't have a waiting list. I could not believe it! I couldn't believe I gave her all that personal information for no reason. I'm still stunned. Plus, she recommended calling the office I just decided not to go with this week. *sigh*


That doctor is ridiculous. If she had no openings and no waiting list, why would a busy doctor waste her time calling to ask someone questions. Sheesh....what did you say when she said that?

Lilly, I have no advice for you. There are just no easy answers. You do one thing and you deal with Pile of Shit A. You do the other thing and you deal with Pile of Shit B. I guess it's a matter of figuring out which pile stinks less.....not an easy decision. :( :roll:

((HUGS)) for you, sweetie.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:17 am 
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Something unbelievable happened. Yesterday I get a call from a pharmacy saying they're sorry they don't have my med in stock, but they'll be getting it tomorrow morning. It turns out the Dr.'s office where I cancelled my "induction" accidentally went ahead an called in the script. And I never would have known it if the pharm didn't have an issue. So I went there is morning thinking I would a least get a couple. They still hadn't gotten their order in, but they said they could give me 8 2mg Subs. Yay! Then when they handed me the order, they said they owed me 42 more! The docs office called in 50. I couldn't believe my luck. I mean I know this doesn't solve the problem, but at least having those will buy me almost a month's time to find a doc without having to go out and get them illegally. Plus, my insurance covered it.

On th doctor issue...I live in a small New England town. The 5 docs I've been to or called so far were all 30-40 min. away. Now, I have to branch out my search to docs 45-60 min. one way, which is an issue for me. Part of me says just use the 50 2mg Subs to taper and just be done with it.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:41 am 
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Lillyval wrote:
Something unbelievable happened. Yesterday I get a call from a pharmacy saying they're sorry they don't have my med in stock, but they'll be getting it tomorrow morning. It turns out the Dr.'s office where I cancelled my "induction" accidentally went ahead an called in the script. And I never would have known it if the pharm didn't have an issue. So I went there is morning thinking I would a least get a couple. They still hadn't gotten their order in, but they said they could give me 8 2mg Subs. Yay! Then when they handed me the order, they said they owed me 42 more! The docs office called in 50. I couldn't believe my luck. I mean I know this doesn't solve the problem, but at least having those will buy me almost a month's time to find a doc without having to go out and get them illegally. Plus, my insurance covered it.

On th doctor issue...I live in a small New England town. The 5 docs I've been to or called so far were all 30-40 min. away. Now, I have to branch out my search to docs 45-60 min. one way, which is an issue for me. Part of me says just use the 50 2mg Subs to taper and just be done with it.


OMG! What awesome luck! That is just crazy tho....what are the chances? You must have been shocked.

You just bought yourself some extra time and you can relax a little.....YAY!!!!

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Wow!! That's great Lilly!! What a stroke of luck.

Just an FYI, when I was on Suboxone, I had to drive 1 hour, one way, to see my doctor. It was a pain, but for the time I was on Suboxone, it was totally worth it.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:44 pm 
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That really is amazing, Lilly!!!!


good karma points, got cashed in, maybe??????

WHATEVER it was,,, Thanks, right??? LOL


I just wanted to say ,,, Ive been following your thread, and havent written anything,,,,,,, I never think I have anything 'good enough' to say, LOL which I know probably isnt true, but Im sure you can understand. :wink:

anyways, its just GREAT to hear.

Im rooting for you, to keep lookin for a doctor, by the way. Just 'in case' your not ready to taper, when this Rx is gone.

GOOD LUCK

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