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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:38 pm 
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Setmefree that's good but I have a feeling he's one of the types to change his user name and keep coming back and stirring the pot. Oh well people like this will always be everywhere In the world can't do much about it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:01 pm 
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badabing16 wrote:
why r people angry about suboxone use...hmmm for starters i am not an opiate addict but my husband is and his addiction has ruined alot in our lives!!!! i am a recovering alcoholic who does a program of RECOVERY... i do not depend on meds to make me better or get me thru pain, anxiety, cravings!!! alcohol withdrawl is the only one a person can DIE from. yet all these opiate addicts can't stand for 1 second to be sick...like the dr. said there are cancer patients who have to deal with incredible pain on a daily basis, along with the fact that they are dying!!!! i know several opiate addicts who did it the "old fashioned way" The just STOPPED!!!! yes the cravings are there and yes the physical symptoms suck....but it also does coming off of alcohol!! and by working a recovery program those cravings will dissipate. and guess what we don't have a magic pill to take it away!!! i have been taught that drinking and using are just a symptom of this disease ...so get down to the roots and causes,,,heal!!! every person i know who are on subs , including my husband sit back and use suboxone as a recovery...sorry doesnt work!!!! u need to deal with life on life's terms!!! not to mention the financial burden it has put on us!!! funny how he (and most junkies) always find a way to pay for their script, but when it comes to bills or what have you...well that falls on the usually codependant!!!! i know the doc of the forum is all for it because he himself is a junkie plain and simple and i'm sorry but from my experience ....junkies are a different breed!!! they use the disease as an excuse..."well i don't have a choice my disease was running my life" well my friend that is why there are programs out there to reduce the voice of the disease. and don't u think it screams sometimes for us alcoholics? also the doc references subs as a way of saving a persons life...again and again and agian....there are other things, whether it be a 12 step program, religion or whatever that will also save ur life without once again being dependent on a pill!!!! and lastly...i don't think opiate addicts have a clue what they do to those they love.....the pain the misery the worry are tremendous and for those who are a significant other of an addict who is also in recovery it jepordizes their recovery. every person i know who is on subs does nothing to change the person that they are...the stay sick and expect life to go back to "normal", and us loved ones should not live in the past!!!! i never wish the experience of living and loving an opiate addict on anyone and until u have u have no room to talk. anything u do say is for personal gain!!!


Benzodiazepine withdrawals can kill you too, and guess what, alcoholics do have a magic pill they can take to get thru the withdrawals, it's done at my clinic very often to alcoholics in VERY BAD withdrawals. Those magic pills are called BENZODIAZEPINES. When used under the care of a doctor they can be very beneficial and get you thru your WDs with very little discomfort. I believe they also use barbituates at times specifically phenobarbitol to bring alcoholics and opiate addicts off their substances. Just my two sense, every addict has a magic pill in the medical world that can bring them thru the withdrawals with little to no discomfort, woot woot for modern medicine. Of course the only way to stay clean after that is work a solid program and have support.

EDIT: it's not the only way to stay clean after the meds part as i stated above, but i do believe some form of support is very important. I believe if you go an a bender, get medically detoxed and come off scott free with no repercussions like withdrawal, you will just end up using again.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:39 am 
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I think that anger is not good, it can be very destructive to yourself and others. If you are angry you may feel bitter and resentful, withdraw, sulk, get irritated or upset, become impatient, fret, fume, yell, raise your voice, make sarcastic comments. If anger has become a problem, then I think that a psychologist can help you.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:34 am 
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16 years ago I had 30 Valium/day habit plus up to 1 gram of phenobarb/day and 20 joints/day. I lost count of my pills and had DT`s. I had to set up 2 alarm clocks so I would wake up in the middle of the night and chew 5-6 valiums or libriums with hot water and not die from a fatal seizure in my sleep. I tapered off pills on my own without any medical help and got clean. I was a zomby for 1.5 years after that. Benzo,booze and barb wds can easily kill but they are NOTHING in terms of the sheer pain compared to a heavy opioid wd. So, when you look down on junkies, consider that booze is the only drug which destroys your DNA permanently. 10 years of heavy drinking cause irreparable damage to every cell in your body. Opioids are phenomenal in terms of their effectiveness and complete harmlessness to the body. The downside is the indescribable pain of the opioid wd.
I`d rather go thru 10 deleirium tremens episods than 1 opioid detox, as far as the pain goes.
I don`t touch booze. It`s liquid radiation.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:51 am 
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first off i wish you and your husband the very best in being sober, recovery, and life in general. from my personal experience my was changed in every way i didn't want it to; do to opiate addiction. i had lost so many morals and self motivation. i have been using medication in my recovery for over 3 yrs and i have changed all of the negatives back to positives and learned a valuable lesson along the way. i have become a better employee, better husband, better christian, and even made what i believe to be a loving and caring father(something that has come along since i started treatment) every aspect of my life changed because i wanted it to and that is what each of us has to come to that conclusion. i hope your husband does this for not only his well being but yours also. i seen how i was in addiction and i hated it so bad that it was the only choice for me.


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 Post subject: Of knights and windmills
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:52 am 
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Angry at a bunch of tiny rocks.. Cool.

Badabing, we all understand your frustration. Most of us have had similar experiences in our lives, codependent relationships, struggle and hardships, and we understand how devastating and heart-breaking it is to be attached to someone with substance abuse problem. It's not that they (we) don't care what you feel or how much they (we) hurt you. It's just when your brain is permanently intoxicated by an addictive substance, the thought process itself becomes very different from that of a sober person. It like, the rational part loses its authority over our personality or something. We've all been there, and we don't want to go back. That's the main reason why we are on Suboxone.

Also, almost everyone here has tried a "cold turkey" detox once or twice before :) Some could not take the wds, but some relapsed YEARS after they got clean and sober, only to find themselves back in hell all over again. I don't think that Sub patients use it in order to keep the sick away or to get away with getting high legally. There are easier, more enjoyable options to knock yourself out. The reason we use Sub is because of the protection it gives us, after we've failed numerous times to do it on our own.

But I won't discuss the "pros" and I won't get defensive about it. All I want to say is - Buprenorphine (the ingredient in Suboxone) is a substance. It's just a chemical. Little salt crystals, that can be used both for good and evil. Like any medication that can be used to treat an illness or it can be used to harm or even kill someone. IT'S JUST AN ORANGE PILL, and it's not out to get you. Pain medication, believe it or not, can also be used for the benefits of those in pain, or it can be used to get high. It's not what you take, it's WHY you take it and how it makes you behave that's important.

I know that some people (especially those with lower tolerance) can use Bupe to get buzzed. And some sniff kitty litter. it seems to me that your anger is misdirected - you chose to attack a medication (and consequently, everyone who take it) as a main source of your frustration. Suboxone is just an insurance, when you are committed to your recovery (and most of us consider physical dependence and the cost of the drug as a necessary expense, like those premiums you pay for your car. But whether to be on maintenance and work on your recovery, or to use Bupe to tide you over till your next fix - is a PERSONAL decision of every one of us.

And btw, you don't have to stick it out alone. there are a lot of "protection" meds available to recovering alcoholics these days. And they don't just make you sick when you slip, some of them have been proven to significantly reduce cravings as well. You don't have to be perfect! just live a relatively happy life and be in a relatively good health, that's all. We are not defined by our chemical compounds :) just our feelings and our actions. Its your husband actions you are so angry about, and we understand how desperate you are. But you won't make any progress by putting the blame on... anything, in fact - blaming is pointless. Your husband will get better when he decides to get help and change his ways, - until then no matter what pills he puts in his mouth, your conflict won't be resolved.

You don't have to be alone. There's people here (and on other forums) who understand what you are going through and will support you in your struggle. It's very important to have someont to talk to about your problems and not to be judged.

I wish all the best for you and your family.

Peace.

You see Badabing,

I also understand

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 4:00 am 
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sorry, there was a glitch in my inet connection. Pleas ignore the last two lines.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:34 pm 
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Yeah, yeah...l know I'm a little late to this party - but....
I can't let it go, the comment (from badabing, I think) that opiate withdrawl won't kill you.

My last 2 detox attempts resulted in my being in ICU the first time and CCU the second time due to the severity of my w/d symptoms. I became so dehydrated from repeated vomiting that the potassium level in my blood was undetectable. Not enough potassium (aka an electrolyte) = death. Your heart stops as a result. If I would have remained at home I wouldn't be here today.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:18 pm 
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WoW, once again I missed all of the drama Image


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:13 pm 
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:evil: Suboxone has saved my life! I have been using it for three years and everything is better in my life. I am working on repairing the damage I caused my loved ones but they are thrilled with my recovery so far. I have recommended this wonder drug to three fellow addict/alcoholics and all three have remarked the same thing. One can choose to be angry and bitter and play the blame game or they can work on the road to recovery and see the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel. God Bless!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:38 pm 
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So I know this is way past the original post but I am new here and reading and learning and wanting support and wanting to offer support in any way I can.
I'm posting a little too much no doubt but I'm waking up and have a lot to say!

The only thought I had that was different at all and there were some really great responses to badabing 16...I especially like the idea that we need to respect each other and support each other, not tear down. We've ALL been through hell no matter what addiction we have had. We have ALL hurt others in our addictions and our disease and we have all hurt ourselvles in this. It's a shit disease. I read Reraise say he hate this diease. I do, too. I wish I didn't have it. some days I'd rather have cancer just to have my emotional mind get a bit of a break.
Our rational brains do not work when we are actively addicted. We revert to old brain thinking. Read up on Limbic system and prefrontal cortex and addiction if you are interested in that. Old brain thinking is that kind of flight or fight very raw living. I've been there quite a lot sadly.

So, the only different thought is WHY NOT TAKE SUBOXONE, or methadone, or campral, or gaba inhibitors which are very effective in helping chronically addicted alcoholics abate their cravings, or antidepressants, or antibiotics, or anesthesia for surgery? I don't mean to be sarcastic. But it is kind of old thinking to not believe in new medications. That is from fear or not being educated or just plain ignorance...and like someone said its not good when we all need support but then only believe in our way. I believe in any way that someone can be in recovery. Recovery is the key. However we change our thinking, our patterns of old living, old belief systems is good. These are tools. I like Dr. Junigs thoughts about artificiality. That is accurate I believe. But what if we had given up on advancing medicine? We wouldn't have a great anesthetic called propofol that allows people to wake up faster than Thiopentathol, and be less groggy and have an easier postoperative course, if we didn't have zofran some people would puke their guts out after surgery. We'd still be using drip ether for gods sake! YUCK! So I look at these medicines as an advancement in medicine. WHY not use what is available to help us? Why suffer through cravings if we don't have to? Why suffer through obsession if we don't have to? It's barbaric to think that taking a new medication is wrong. Anything that keeps us in recovery is not wrong. Just my belief.

Ok, I'll stop venting. I just obviously have huge issues with this black and white thinking. It does no good. It kills.
Thanks for letting me post...again....


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:32 am 
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good point ^^^^^


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:35 am 
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DITTO! You covered most of it. The only thing that gets me still to this day, after a year of remission is that dirty word STIGMA. And unless more sites like this pop up and we become proactive in education, especially DOCTORS that don't want to hear even the eight day rule, our anger gets worse IMHO. The only thing, medication wise that I would not even try is Ibogane or that scam rapid detox. In the state where I live seven people have died from that mans scam. All in all the last time I checked, (a while ago too) it was in the twenties. One young man died in his mothers arms digging out the implants in his neck.

We have a disease, we are being treated with medication, that should be...SHOULD BE enough for anyone to accept, it's just sad that it still is not an accepted medication, doesn't matter if its methadone, or sub, remission is remission, PERIOD.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:17 pm 
I dont think the stigma will ever completely go away simply because suboxone is an opioid so all these people think it acts just like every other opiate/opioid and dont understand that for us addicts it gives us no type of high. I never looked down on suboxone but before I was put on suboxone and in active addiction and trying and failing at getting clean I secretly was jealous of people on suboxone. I would think to myself the same old cliches that people say to me now "you are just trading one drug for another" and thought that they must be getting some type of high. Then one desperate night after scouring the internet about withdrawal and opiate addiction I came across doctor Junigs videos on youtube. I was so grateful to find those videos and see an actual doctor talking about it instead of reading questionable info on google not knowing if it was from a legitimate source. My family didnt want me on subs but then I had them watch Dr. Junigs video and they listened to how he talked about being an addict as well and after some talking they decided that they wanted me to go see a sub doc. I rant about suboxone sometimes and its side effects and how it doesnt always keep my cravings at bay but today Im feeling very positive and happy about life and being clean and I owe a lot of that to suboxone. I am around 120 days clean and feeling great about it. Other people need to just mind their own business and either accept suboxone or if they dont thats fine they should just keep their opinions to themselves. I told my sub doc at my last appt. how my outpatient treatment counselor gets on my case about trying to get off suboxone and how it made me feel shitty and you should seen how mad that got him, he said next time they bring that up give them my card and have them call me and I'll set them straight. He said ask them "what college they went to and where did they get their medical degree" in a sarcastic way lol.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:29 pm 
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It is pretty sad how the disease of addiction has continued to be a moral issue for many. Even my patients that come in believe that of themselves. It breaks my heart. Id love to hear how others deal with comments about sub or methadone.
It's kind of like the adoptin of my daughter from China....in a sense....how I deal with people depends on my mood and how and what they ask. I have had some of the most rude questions asked whenever I'm out with my daughter, esp. when she was younger, a baby or toddler. People would say, "Is her father chinese?" seriously? I'd love to say things like, "Hmmmm I don't know for sure but I think so" and they'd walk away confused...or people would ask me "How much did she cost?" again, seriously? The only time I'd talk about the adoption is when people were really interested and kind or if they were adopting. I taught my daughter that it is her story and she can tell who she wants or not. i did try to teach her to be respectful and I was not ever rude to anyone, except once when a woman practically mowed me down in the grocery store when my daughter was sitting in the cart. She was about 1 and she had a mongolian spot on her hand and on her lower back. (they have gone away now). Initially I had my pediatrician take pics so I wouldn't be accused of hitting her because they looked like bruises. This lady stops me and angrily said, "WHAT IS THAT ON HER HAND?" I initially thought "Honey you are a bit too close to us back off" but I was so shocked that I actually answered her. I said mongolian spot. And she said "It looks like a bruise" and she was angry, and hyper and kept coming up along side us. I finally just said "Fuck off" and left.
Ok, so the methadone or sub isn't quite the same but it comes down to how i am feeling when asked a question about it how I respond to it. I've always supported methadone and sub, even before being on them, so it isn't hard for me to be positive about them. it just takes time and energy and talk about our personal lives to educate people. it's hard sometimes.
No one on Insulin has to go through that. No one on blood pressure meds has a judge take away their daughter. its crap. but it is what it is. not much has changed in the field of addiction really. Some, but very slowly.

I was thinking more about my earlier post and it reminded me of women I had as patients when doing labor epidurals. Some would say they felt they were not strong enough because they got the epidural, like they were less than mothers because of it. Some would say "I want to have my baby naturally" and I'd say "Anything that comes out of your body is natural". when they'd get the epidural they'd be so happy. they could have a nicer, calmer delivery, its calmer for the baby and there is not reason NOT to have one. So, its the same with sub or methadone or whatever. We are not less in recovery because of it. Badabing kept saying how she did it on her own and that they have to "DEAL" with cravings in AA. Well, actually they don't have to. She is choosing to do it that way, fine. But we are choosing something else. Like laboring women choosing epidurals. Why not? and does anyone really think they are less than if they get one?
Ok, I could go on and on here.

Yep the stigma is there and I doubt it will change. We have to hold our heads up and not take on any bs. Big talk from a girl who got the shit beat out of her in court...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:41 pm 
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I agree with everything you said, Chinagirl. I think all of it boils down to one thing - a lack of education about the disease concept of addiction. If everyone understood it for what it is (what I believe it to be), there would be less stigma and way less anger.

I can't believe people treated you and your daughter that way. Some people just have manners, common sense, and definitely no couth. Sounds like you handled it right for you and your daughter.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:14 pm 
I think part of the stigma and hate for sub and methadone in AA/NA is because not everyone in those programs is an opiate addict. What Im getting it at is there is probably alot of jealousy coming from those people because there isnt a medication for them to take for alcohol, cocaine, benzos etc that will help them deal with addiction and help their recovery like suboxone for us opiate addicts. Id bet my bottom dollar if they came out with a medication like subs for each of those other addictions most if not all of those jealous nay sayers would be on that medication in a heart beat.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:50 pm 
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Suboxowned,

I've been meaning to comment on that for a long time and just keep forgetting. If there were a pill to help with an addicition to blow or alcohol, etc. those MFers would be on it like white on rice. I believe that is a BIG part of why 'some addicts' hate the fact that sub helps us opiate abusers. Once their pill hits the market I bet they shut the hell up then!

I'd like to bust into one of these AA meetings where they poo-poo sub and tell them I have something that will help them dramatically with their struggle and watch as every hand in the room goes up because they want me to give them some.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:57 pm 
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Romeo, no shit....but you know what? There are some things for alcohlics and coke addicts. They are using wellbutrin to help coke addicts in detox. Don't know how it is going for sure....but its a start. And there are gaba inhibitors for alcohol cravings and more and new things daily.
We are just more advanced people...haha....


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I just registered to this site, Im 20 years old, have been on sub. for about 5 months, im prescribed 16mg daily, and i dont understand why you, badabing, are so negative towards people who are using subox to help them heal. from my childhood experience, so many of my family members were/are alcoholics, or if not, they surely couldnt control how much they drank once they started, on any given night. i have nightmares to this day of horrible things that happened when i was growing up, and most of the nightmares have to do with something that happened when someone in my family was drunk. in my opinion, alcohol is one of the worst drugs ever; i dont even think it should be legal. it really hurts loved ones of people who are addicted to it. and i understand that every drug does, but from what i have seen alcohol has really had the biggest impact on one's attitude, inhibitions, etc.... i think suboxone is great im so thankful to have finally gotten the courage to call someone for help. it took a long time and a lot of convincing myself, but i finally did it, and ive been on the up and up ever since. (:


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