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 Post subject: yes...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:51 am 
On second thought, I have no ill wishes toward anyone, but I just wish and hope that an updated, "modern" view of drug dependence as a medical disease would become the norm in this country. Maybe then we could put our resources toward finding the "suboxone" for crystal meth, alcohol, cocaine, pot, and the rest. I think medicine can answer the problem of addiction, if we can just convince those who are hell-bent on abstinence based recovery.


Last edited by jdhammond1982 on Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:37 pm 
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Badabing I am someone who has used The Twelve Steps and suboxone to get sober, and time and time again I encounter people like yourself who feel that the only way is Bob and Bills. While I gained enormously helpful tools in AA, I always kept in mind that back in the day Bill and Bob didn't establish the program to treat opiate and pharmacutical dependence, and actually if you peruse the doctors opinion I do believe in certain cases they perscribed certain meds to help with "anxiety" due to the alcohol withdrawal, something they would'nt dream of today. Again the steps can be enormously helpful but they are one tool I carry in my tool box, suboxone is another. I do agree that just suboxone can be hard to pull off but just the Twelve Steps can be as equally hard to pull off for an opiate addict. I wish you continued success with your program, and may I suggest showing your husband this site, maybe he will gain a little insight into how many others are going through this fight with him. :P


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:51 am 
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This thread was to discuss why people are angry, NOT to attack people one knows nothing about.

There have been many good responses from setmefree and others.

But what I'm seeing is regardless of those respectful responses, the attacks, insults, and disrespect continues.

I agree with Diary.

Sorry, but just my junkie-two-cents.[u]


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:08 pm 
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@hatmaker:
I'm sure noone means any disrespect, I know I don't. Pretty sure I wished them continued success..........


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 Post subject: Regrets...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:17 pm 
I regret that at first i reacted toward badabing16 in a spirit of anger and nastiness. We exchanged private messages, and then I began thinking about how she is probably coming from a place of hurt and disappointment with her husband. That is an understandable position, so basically the only way I can convince her that Suboxone works is through my behavior. I decided to apologize, and it turns out that she is a very nice person and is just concerned that people are working a real recovery. I think she's probably been through a lot in her life, just like all of us. I only wish her well.
JD


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:12 am 
That's awesome JD! I'm glad you were able to reach out to Badabing. I have always found it to be an impressive quality in people when they're able to step back, see things from someone else's perspective, then reapproach the situation with kindness and respect. It is not an easy thing...especially for people like myself who have a tendency to be passionate about their feelings and sometimes "shoot off at the mouth" before thinking things all the way through!
Throughout my career, working in a bigger hospital in a bigger unit with lots of employees (mostly women!) I was able to gain a little insight into conflict. Seems like there was always somebody bickering with somebody about something! Add to the mix the fact that there was a very distinct 'chain of command' - upper administration, physicians, nurse managers, charge nurses, staff nurses, nurse assts or techs, and on and on....
Anyhow, what I noticed was that one of the biggest, fastest ways to defuse a heated situation was to bring one word into the conversation. That word is "RESPECT". Do you have respect for the conditions of another person? Do you have respect for anything that person does? Do you have respect for them on any level at all? Most everyone is deserving of respect on some level and if we show them that respect, it is generally given back in return.
Thanks JD for your contributions here!


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 Post subject: why the anger
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:44 pm 
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I am new to this forum but not to suboxone.(one year and down to 4mg) I started out at 24mg a day went to IOP and meetings and everything else to help myself. After I read badabing's post I realized that I have been on the fence and have been using this med as a crutch. I can see her anger and frustration but why the all encompassing cry that all of us are the same? I thank her for another push in the right direction. Pills screwed up my life in the first place and the only way to stay sober is to use all of the tools availiable.


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 Post subject: My View
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:12 pm 
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Hi subtan,
I know that Dr. J does not want a debate out here on whether Suboxone is good or bad!
I just wanted to say that I have been on this medication for 11 months and I don't consider it a crutch any more than I consider my counseling sessions a crutch. I believe they both are important tools for me to use in my recovery. I would like to be medication free at some point But, I will not rush my recovery to do it. My recovery is much to important to me to risk it!
Just my $0.02
Good Luck!
TW


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:38 pm 
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People often say they fear being 'stuck on Suboxone'. They are totally missing the reality of the situation-- which is that they are 'stuck on opiate dependence'. Opiate dependence is a permanent condition; of that there is no debate. If you have it, you will always have it. You have a choice; keep using and eventually lose everything or die; take buprenorphine and 'artificially' put the obsession into remission; take methadone and 'artificially' create satiety of cravings and raise your tolerance; or go to meetings and create an 'artificial' personality. IN ALL CASES, IF YOU STOP THE ARTIFICIAL PART, THE ACTIVE USE INEVITABLY RETURNS. Those are simply the facts.

This paragraph says it all! I have been on suboxone for about a year now, I have Multiple Sclerosis but before being Dx'd with MS I had 3 back surgeries(Degenerative Disc Disease)which left me with a condition known as Arachnoiditis and severe spinal Stenosis. I can't even begin to tell you the ammounts of opiates I have taken trying to get out of this physical hell. I know I will be opiate dependent for the rest of my life. My own family watched me live my life in a stupor and watched as I over dosed again and again, and I didn't care, hell I didn't want to live in this wretched body, who would? I was in horrid pain, opiate dependent and the pills were no longer helping with the pain, unless I took so much I would just knock myself out. They couldn't give me anything stronger Dilaudid is pretty strong and on top the muscle relaxers and benzodiazapam I'd say I was about as medicated as I was going to get. Something had to give! I decided to either try Suboxone or Methadone, I opted for the Suboxone...Life isn't sunshine and lolly pops, but I am consciousness and I am an active participant in my own life once again! Suboxone dosen't help me much with the pain, I wish it did! I still take other meds for pain just not narcotic. I still suffer immense pain and if you haven't suffered from neurological pain believe me you don't know what pain is, yet my family like the original poster, doesn't like that I am taking Suboxone!! Imagine that! Sometimes I have to wonder maybe they liked me better unconsciousness and voiceless?? When I hear that people are buying Suboxone on the street and using it to get high, I have to wonder because I know that's pretty impossible, at least for me and I am on 24mg a day, and all that does is keep the withdrawal away. There are days when the pain is relentless and I think maybe I should just stop the Suboxone and go back to Dilaudid, but I kind of like being awake for parts of my life! Everyday is still a struggle with the pain and I am always just a breath away from going backwards. Suboxone is not the magic bullet some people like to think it is, but for now I would have to say I am glad I have it, it most definately helps and I have no fear of being stuck on it for life, if need be.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:31 am 
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Kerouackat,

Your description of your addiction sounds so much like mine. The stupors, passing out, taking more and more to reduce the pain...a vicious, vicious cycle. You put it to words well. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Melissa

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:26 am 
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my goal and most peoples is to ultimately be off of subs and if that isnt someones goal then they really are not committed to being clean and sober. suboxone has allowed me to get my life back and it doesnt matter that i have to take a pill right now because my quality of life is 1000 times better than its been in a long long time!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:36 pm 
Hey ocho, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you meant no harm or offense when you said "...my goal and most peoples is to ultimately be off subs and if that isn't someone's goal then they really are not committed to being clean and sober"
That is not necessarily true.....there are a lot of people (Dr. Junig who started this site for one) who believe in lifetime treatment with Suboxone. I'm not going to go into it all here as it's been debated thoroughly already, but you can certainly be on Sub and consider yourself "clean." Personally I don't really like the terminology of "clean vs dirty" anyway. I much prefer terms like "active addiction" and "actively using" or "in recovery" and "sober."
I hope to be able to stop Suboxone at some point myself, but certainly am not opposed to staying on it indefinately if that's what it takes to avoid relapse.
It's important to respect each other's efforts in their own recovery and I certainly respect you for wanting to be 'drug free'. That is obviously your preference and goal, as it is for many others, and that's great. But please avoid comments that imply that those who choose medication-assisted recovery are somehow inferior or that they are "less clean" than those who choose complete abstinence.
Glad to have you here! You are certainly welcome to share your goals and feelings on things, we just don't want to encourage debate over recovery methods. Cool?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:37 pm 
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I agree with setmefree. I'm sure if you asked everyone on here if they would rather not take suboxone or subutex or methadone and remain clean they would say of course! But the reality is some of us may very well need to keep taking medication daily to remain off our drug of choice or other substances. I view myself "in recovery". I would love to come off suboxone one day, but I have come to the realization that just may not be possible. A life taking a pill once a day as opposed to using or having to "white knuckle" it through my day is not a difficult choice for me. I am certainly not saying it is the only way. People have been getting "clean" before suboxone was invented and will without it. It's just so much easier for me with it! I didn't ask to be born with addiction but it is mine to deal with the rest of my life the best way I can. As always...I wish everyone on here, with whatever method works for them, SUCCESS!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:00 pm 
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This is a Disease last time I checked you fight disease with medication. So ill keep taking my medication so I don't DIE. As far as anyones opinion I really don't give a shit all you really have in the end is family. My kids are healthy and my wife is great my mother is still very healthy I never miss work pay all my bills on time so I can't find anything really wrong with my life so ill stay on my medication as long as I want to.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:10 pm 
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Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where in the hell do I start? This thread seems to have been cursed right from the start, hasn't it? :)

It's probably a good thing that SetMeFree jumped in before I did. She is sometimes much nicer than I am and very good at putting her thoughts down on paper. Years of nursing I'm sure has helped her with having a very companionate focus to things. So I won't jump in with both barrels like I may otherwise have.

Being a huge watcher of people and their nature, it always is so interesting to me when people just simply assume that the way they think, feel, or go about things, is the way pretty much everyone else does as well. Many times that could not be further from the truth. There is no doubt in my mind that Ocho Cinco didn't talk with, survey or in any way actually determine that most people want to get off of Suboxone. It's just being assumed. As SMF stated, that really is not, and in my OPINION should not be the goal. Keeping yourself from abusing opiates is the goal - at least it's my goal. If I can do that without medication - all the better. Just like if I can keep my blood pressure down without medication (diet, exercise, etc.) all the better. Anyhow. I think the point has been made. Carefull what we say and how we say it.

Then there is this little gem: "This is a Disease last time I checked you fight disease with medication." That is a very true statement. HOWEVER, medication is only one way to treat disease. There are many, many others as well. I don't think I even have to go on to list them. Sometimes, medication is first on the list. Other times it is last. But rarely, is it the only. Just something else to keep in mind.

Yeah, I am pretty sure this thread/topic is cursed!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:41 pm 
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I don't know if this thread is cursed, but it certainly refuses to die! :o

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You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:11 am 
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So how's everybody doing? I'm feeling freaking great myself... its nice to finally see a light at the end of the tunnel.

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☤Opiate free since 01/05/2010
Suboxone free since 03/21/2011


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 1:54 am 
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BigRed wrote:

Most of us have tried cold turkey quitting......it only lasts a certain amount of time. Some 1 week, some 1 month, some 1 year, some 40+ years. 90-97% will relapse, it is fact, it is a joke, and it is about time something such as Suboxone is available. NA/AA success rates are 3-10%, how the hell is that success?!? I AM NOT TALKING SHIT ABOUT 12 STEP MEETINGS, THEY CAN/DO SAVE LIVES.
That statistic comes from where? 3-10%. That is way off the mark. Both groups have millions of clean members worldwide. Many relapsed but many have decades clean. I know many members of narcotics anonymous with 20+ years clean. You are way off the mark there. And FYI suboxone is an opiate so technically you are not clean using suboxone. It is a drug. Giving to someone with no tolerance they will get high.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:14 pm 
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Don't know how old this post is but this antisub guy has nothing but negative comments to make. Does it make you feel good or some shit? Getting old real quick.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 4:46 pm 
Hey Ronnie. Antisub got himself banned. He had another thread going which was deleted because he got so ugly with his comments about "us" Suboxone users and Dr. Junig. He broke the basic rules of the forum from the beginning by choosing the username "antisub" and by naming his thread "......the pros and cons of Suboxone."
So yeah, he's gone.


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