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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:24 pm 
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So I have looked all over the internet to find positive people with positive advice....So glad to finally find a great site. It seems every story you read about subs on different sites are so negative. For every one sucess story I would read 10 horror stories...the last thing you want to read when already facing extreme uncertainty for the future as well as adding to the large amount of anxiety and fear one is facing regarding coming clean.
My quick story. I wish I could say I am one who got hooked on opiates because I had some kind of injury, but thats not the case. Although I did have an injury that required pain meds when I got hooked my surgery had been a long time before..I just happen to have many pain meds left over that I discovered in my med cabinet a year later.....about 30 hydrocodone.
Basically I took hydrocodone and oxycodone for the past 9 months. It was usually 10mg percs or 10mg hydrcodone. For about 6 weeks I took them every day starting at one a day and ending up taking 5 a day. I went through withdraws of course 2 -3 days later...I was very naive and knew nothing about wd's and didnt understand what i was going through, so I of course get on the internet and found out real quick. The anxiety and RLS was the ony thing I really had, but it was pretty bad so I went to my family doc and told him off the record. he gave some xanax or something and ambien to get some sleep...said I wasnt on them long enough to really hurt me...he basically just gave me a slap on the wrist and said dont do it again. For the two weeks after that I had some awful depression ..more cravings than anything, so I relapsed..and never quit. For 4 months I was taking about 70 mg of percs a day then it grew and grew.
The last month of my pill taking I was up to snorting roxy's and taking oxy 10'325s at about 200-220mg a day...
I finally wised up and said enough was enough...couldnt function withou taking a pill to feel good. I was blowing $300 plus a week and knew that losing my career and my house was coming down the road, so I finally wised up. The last 10 days of quitting were quite horrible as you all know. I made a an appointment with a sub doctor, but he couldnt see me until a week and a half later, and it seemed everyone doctor I called would not return my call. I didnt know what to do. I had no pills left except for a few 10mg methadone a "friend" gave me to help me threw wd's until I saw my doc. They did help..for a bit but then the wd's set in. I never had any kind of diareah or muscle aches...just the worst skin crawling and RLS imaginable paired with the insomnia and anxiety that freaked out everyone around me. Its that awful feeling that we have all said..." I wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy" Those pain meds I took were the devil.

So I finally got in with my new sub doctor as my withdrawls continued.. I was so ready to get on suboxone but scared to death because eventhough I was going through wd's I felt like the worst was yet to come...I didnt have the nausea and bathroom issues..no muscle pain...I was so scared to take the sub and go through worse wd's, so I waited two days after i went to the doc.. He didnt require that I start with him in the office...I could do it at home.
I finally decided it was time. He told me to start with half a pill and if didnt work...take another half two hours later and keep at that pace until I was fine. I thought I instead take a qtr pill (2mg) to see if that would work. I figured if I could get by on feeling better on only two mg twice a day it would help me to keep my dosage down and in turn help me to wean off faster.
So for 10-12 days this amount seemed to work then all of sudden I wake up one morning with the worse depression...didnt want to get out of bed....RLS...anxiety... I was like WHAT the F???!! I took my 2mg dose and it did nothing...I then took another 2mg and started feeling a little better, but still depressed. This continued again the next day, so I went to my doc and he said that the reason I am going through these wd's was because my body ( I weigh 250lbs...mostly muscle...Im a personal trainer..just mentioning this because it may have something to do with h ow I metabolize pills....I dont know) was used to taking so much opiates before that the subs hadnt stabilized yet. He said 4mg of subs a day is a very small amount for starting out especially with my previous month or two of opiate abuse. As directed I was now on 6mg in the morning and 4mg at night. He said, "When you take suboxone the whole idea is that you are supposed to feel like yourself 24hours a day...no highs and lows. He said my body is just adjusting and the small amount Im taking is only lasting me for a while and then the wd's are setting in...And once I find my right dose I will feel normal 24/7. I started this new dose last Sunday April 17th. Well it worked a couple of days, but now Im feeling the anxiety and depression again.


So here are my questions that maybe someone can help with:
Is it possible my body is still trying to stabilize? Has anyone heard of this happening to anyone else the first month on? I mean I dont want to have to keep having my doseage increased :(

I mean one day I feel great...ready to work..book new training appointments and then all of a sudden I just feel like crying and doing nothing. Not even watching tv..Its nuts.
I would also like to add that when I did up my doseage the next morning it literally took 4 hours to to start feeling normal.

My second question is this: I know subs have a long half life, so i thought that surely I would have 3.5 weeks built up in my system. Is it because my body is new to subs and it hasnt built up in my system yet?

I just wanted to say how happy I am to have found this site. There are some extremely helpful people on this site who dont realize that there are many people out there who are reading the positive info you are writing....making our days better...helping us to cope and dealing with the worry we have in such a postive way...Thanks so much


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:14 am 
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Hello and welcome to the forum. I just got your PM and I'm sorry you haven't gotten any replies yet, so I wanted to see if I could answer some of your questions.

I agree with what your doctor told you - he seems pretty educated about how suboxone works. I think that makes you pretty lucky - not all doctors are that informed about sub. So you are on 10 mg a day, is that correct? Theoretically speaking, that SHOULD be a high enough dose to address both your withdrawals and cravings, however we are all unique. You could have a faster metabolism, as you suggested. It's possible that you might need to bump up your dose to 12 mg. Suboxone has a mean half life of 37 hours and even dosing twice a day your withdrawals should be addressed for at least 24 hours at the dose you are on. But from what you are saying it obviously isn't happening that way.

4 mg is generally accepted to be at or around the ceiling - which should saturate one's receptors, but it doesn't always KEEP the receptors saturated, and that's when the individualized dosing comes into play. It sounds to me like your opiate receptors are not STAYING saturated and that's where a higher dosage might help you.

It's not unusual for a higher dosage to be used in the beginning of treatment. Most people are able to stabilize at that dosage for a couple of months then can go down to a lower dosage later. That said, I'm not a doctor and you might want to discuss this with yours.

I hope this helps you a bit. Please just ask away if you have more questions. And again, welcome.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:20 am 
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Hi positivetj,

Welcome to the forum!

Before I forget, I wanted to mention that we have another member here who seems to metabolize his Suboxone very quickly. His name is tearjerker, hopefully he will notice this thread and jump in.

OK, a 200-220mg daily habit of Oxy is serious and I'm kind of surprised you got any relief just taking 4mg of Suboxone per day. In my opinion, that is way too low. You have to remember, during your induction period you are actually ridding your system of all the Oxy's and you will usually need more sub for the first few weeks. It's not that uncommon for someone to take several weeks before they get fully stabilized on sub.

I see where you're at 10mg per day now, that's a whole lot better than 4mg, but it may not be enough for YOU. You have to use Suboxone as it works for YOU.

To me, the depression that has been coming and going is an indicator of full agonist (oxy) withdrawal, when I quit full agonists, I had crushing depression. Again, it's my opinion that the depression you're getting is still related to the oxy's leaving your system. I know the oxy's are out of your system, it's the after effects of the oxy's that I'm talking about.

Right now, I think the last thing you should be worrying about is being on a low dose of Suboxone, you should be taking enough Suboxone to kill all your symptoms. How much Suboxone is that, I don't know? From everything I read, your doctor sounds like he's doing a good job. Talk to him about a higher dose and see if he agrees.

Lastly, you may be one of those who eliminates Suboxone from your system quickly, like tearjerker, if this is the case, you may need to dose several times per day. Again, you have to talk to your doctor about this, OK?

BTW, I started on 16mg of sub per day.

Good luck. I hope you keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:13 pm 
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i metabolize very quickly, always have with any opiate. anyways the sub is an issue because even when i was taking a full pill in the mporning and a half at night i would feel withdrawal symptoms 7 hours after taking the first dose. i know people that can take 1 pill and not have any withdrawal symptoms for 12 hours or more. one time my dr couldnt get me my script of DEA issues and he said "well you wont be sick for at least 48 hourrs and i was like well i havent had anything in 12 hours and im in failrly uncomfortable withdrawals right now. i was the same way with pain pills. now that im tapering i have to split my dose up to three times a day 1 mg three times a day. if i take the whole dose at once i am sick by the evening. anyways, i just want to say that i also work out 6 times a week very heavily. i do an 1.5-2 hours of cardio each day and lift weights for an hour three times a week with a trainer so it might have something to do with metabolism being upped due to exercise.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:54 pm 
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Bitzy, I'm so glad you posted your experience about how Suboxone doesn't seem to last like it should for you. Tearjerker posted his experience with Suboxone not lasting as long as he thought it should and positivetj seems to be having the same issues. Actually, I think DannyB24K had similar issues with Suboxone too, I can't remember for sure though?

I always took my Suboxone twice per day, 8mg in the morning and 8mg in the early evening and never really had any issues with it not lasting, but when I quit taking my Suboxone, I started feeling wd symptoms around 13 or 14 hours and by hour 18 I panicked and took two Lorcet Plus (hydrocodone 7.5mg), the Lorcet were three years old, but they hit me with about 80% full effect and I was really surprised. This has perplexed me for a long while now, why did those Lorcet hit me so hard?

Maybe Suboxone wasn't lasting as long as it should have for me either, but since I took a high dose and took it twice daily, I never noticed it.

Anyway, now I'm really curious as to why some of us seem to have an issue with Suboxone not lasting as long as advertised? I'm guessing it has something to do with the way our liver's process it??? IDK??

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:40 pm 
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Positivej... thanks for posting. I have met some that say sub dosnt last threw the day but didnt beleive them. I figured it was just the addict in them talking. But it does make sense that some livers would process the drug faster then others... Anyways I will have to rethink when I hear this again. Just because it lasted for me dosnt mean we are all made from the same mold.

Good luck


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:29 pm 
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Hey birdie... Thanks for posting. Always nice to communicate on these threads. Its good therapy for me. Yeah I just don't understand what's going on with my body. The feedback I'm getting is since I'm new to subs my receptors just aren't saturatedeventhough I have been on a month.i started at 4mg a day during induction and continued for two and a half weeks. It seems half way through the day my wd would start. I was doing 220mg of oxy when I quit so I guess my body is used to more. at least my doctor agreed last week that my doseage was not big enough but he wanted me to do what I felt comfortable doing... Go at my own pace. My whole thought process was if I could be fine at a lower dose then I should. Lot less to come off when the time was right. it has beena big pain in the butt trying to figure out the right amount. A lot of anxiety. Romeo is right in saying I just need to focus on getting to my stable dose


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:28 pm 
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you might want to try splitting your doses up, that always worked for me. you can take xmg's in the morning and xmg's at night or before bed or whatever you need to do. you might want to ask your doctor about that. as for worrying about taking to much and getting it off of it. either way you are going to have to taper and the best thing to do is to worry about staying sober at this point. i know that when i first started sub all i could think about was getting off of it. its the same with rehab, the minute you get there you cant stop thinking about your discharge date. my point is that you need to worry about staying sober and because of that you need to worry about taking the right dose so that the subs actually help you and make you feel good enought to function and work on your sobriety. its pointless to take them at all if you dont feel the way you should.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:33 pm 
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That just because you are dealing with w/d's it doesn't mean we don't feel very ashamed about what we are and have been doing to ourselves. Especially someone like yourself who is held in high regard for taking care of yourself and helping others feel good about themselves. Some of us, in fact, a lot of us deal with depression. Whether it be from the shame of what we are doing to ourselves and we can't seem to find control over what we put in our bodies or that we suffer from other sort of depression. Some of us need a good anti depressant to go along with that sub. There is nothing wrong with at least trying an anti depressant. Something you must work out with your doc. I know from my own social anxiety and post traumatic stress syndrome and a lot of past issues that I will always be on anti depressants. It's a vicious cycle. One of the reasons I loved how opiates made me feel. Euphoric and numbed out to any pain, physical or emotional. I can't remember if you have a therapist, but finding someone to talk to is a great burden lifted. Try prayer too if I may suggest. God will never give you more than you can handle. Believe me, I know.
Good luck to you and blessings.
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