It is currently Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:28 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:43 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:47 am
Posts: 1496
Does therapy/counseling work if you don't want to be there and you won't put much into it?

I am one of those rare people who is HUGELY unfond of being told what I must do. It makes me crazy for sure. I especially hate government regulations telling me what to do. So I am really glad that I had a lot of flexibility around my Suboxone treatment program - even though I was on Medicaid so I had a LOT LESS flexibility than a lot of Suboxone patients do.

To get treatment with Suboxone, I had to agree to weekly therapy at first and then every other week, random UA's and I could only pick up 2 weeks worth of meds at a time...though my doc just wrote refills so I only had to come see him once a month and then every 2 months later. I agreed to this because the state was picking up my tab, for which I was grateful...but had I been paying for my treatment out of my own pocket, I wouldn't have been too happy about it.

I just have a lot of issues around the idea of mandatory counseling. Some of them are:

1. A lot of addiction counselors are idiots. And since I've been in the educational training program for chemical dependency councelors in my state...I know why they are idiots. The level of education required is just not enough to be treating such a complex disease. Seriously, in my state you can be a CDP with an associates degree plus a certificate, which is just nuts.

2. A lot of therapists in general SUCK at their jobs. I don't know why some people go into counseling, but holy hell I have had exposure to some therapists that should just stay the eff away from the helping professions.

3. Many health insurance plans will only pay for therapy with a MSW, and even then your benefits are probably really limited - like 12 sessions a year or something.

4. Which leads me to - cost. Yeah, it would be great if all the Sub doctors who are ripping off their patients would take some of that money and put it toward providing counseling services, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. I would hate to see anyone turned away from Sub treatment because they couldn't afford the mandatory counseling (or drug tests).

5. I am opposed to mandatory attendance at 12-step groups as well. They have a high failure rate, are not based on scientific principles, and the spiritual aspect is just not for everyone. If people want to go voluntarily, that's great, but it shouldn't be required.

6. During my Sub treatment, I got more out of going to yoga and dance classes and taking long walks than I did out of going to my therapist. She was nice and all, but all of her advice was stuff I could get off the internet or out of a self-help book anyway.

7. Additional regulations/hoops are just going to discourage people from seeking treatment. I'm all for strongly recommending that people seek out additional help (besides their medication)...I just don't see why it has to be a requirement.

8. More legal requirements might lead to LESS Suboxone providers. Doctors who prescribe Sub are already subject to unscheduled audits by the DEA...which can apparently be quite a hassle (google "suboxone audit" for some stories). There are already many areas of the US where there are not enough doctors who prescribe Suboxone...do we really want to make it harder for them? Personally, I would rather see the restrictions and extra hoops be put on the doctors who overprescribe painkillers to begin with.


I have other thoughts on this but I just realized that I really need to get to bed. Work tomorrow.

_________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:30 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:43 am
Posts: 1019
Location: Buffalo New York
Yea sorry for not being clearer, yes Hat I agree 100% that every patient is an individual and deserve to be treated as an individual and not fall into a category EVER! And no not every single patient should have to come in once a week or every other week, take a UA every single visit or pill counts but in the beginning of treatment people need to be monitored much closer and over time gain the DRs trust and things will let up but in the early stages of treatment those would be very effective ways to treat addicts looking to get clean because the first month or so is very important to that persons recovery let alone LIFE!

But like Romeo said no addict is going to get drug counseling, attend groups and so on if they don’t have too. And it scares me that DRs would not force/mandate some type of drug treatment besides just talking to him or her for 10 minutes and taking a pill. Because that will not cure and addicts addiction whether you want to admit it or not if you just take SUBOXONE and see a DR once a month you are not going to get better it is basically it is a short term fix, whether you like it or not that is the truth. Because there is so much more to addiction and we all know that and just going to see a DR to get pills is not a healthy form of recovery in my eyes because that is doing nothing for the mental aspect of that persons addiction. And it falls on the DR if they do not force some type of therapy than they really should not be treating opiate addiction. But at the same time when you choose to start suboxone you are making a commitment to yourself to get help and you should want to be in some fore of drug counseling.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:00 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:45 pm
Posts: 833
after the 35 visits " of my doctor saying". did you go to a meeting '. today he finally decided that its up to me. he won't bring it up any more. thats all i can say is ". some people want to really work for AA or NA and thats good. now me and my doc are searching again as usual ' for the rite meds meds meds thats all wee talk about........ i hope no more slam dunks?? i'm very sensetive to meds.' he said. oh sorry! i wish i could be more complex!! this is what is good about suboxone." i guess that it is safer than methadone so that we can take it at home and my higher power is i here at home with me also. my family doc said all pain meds come in 1000s of micrograms,and 16 mg sub is a fairly low dose. and then he said that i am addicted to it. then i said ,i'm not addicted to subs". but i'm afraid to come off it. but my sub doc says no. no. no. anyway what you said about streat talk or sub talk. its very great!! but then we all need the professional opinion .


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject: Exactly Why
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:31 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:04 pm
Posts: 391
BBOY
This is not to come off as argumentative but exactly what is counseling for opiate addiction going to do for me? I mean I know I come from a family of alcoholics and drug addicts....hell my Dad was my drug dealer. When I take Sub I have no cravings or w/d and I have been on it for two years. What is the therapist going to tell me....It's genetic?

Many could argue that addict or not everyone.......everyone needs some type of therapy. I have had therapy in the past and guess what they did...... the same as my Sub Doc.......they prescribed medicine...after medicine........after medicine. Plus I paid ridicolous prices.

DOAQ hit the nail on the head.... there are alot of idiots out there trying to be therapist......trust me I dated a therapist once and she needed 2 or 3 herself......The quality is just not there. But I am interested in knowing what do you think counseling for opiate addiction or those that take sub will accomplish? I am not against it I would just be interested in knowing why you think it would be beneficial since I have no cravings or w/d ........no desire to use or spend the extra money from the all the money I already spend to see a sub doctor on a monthly basis........Again no animosity...I believe everyone has the right to their own recovery. Thanks.

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:56 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
Hey Jim,

I know you posed your questions to Bboy, I hope you don't mind that I'm popping in with my thoughts.

I understand how Suboxone knocks the hell out of cravings for a lot of us and that is truly a miracle on its own. But there's SO much more to addiction than just not taking drugs anymore. Through working with my counselor and now NA, I've learned that addictive behaviors tend to permeate an addicts life, even while on Suboxone. Heck, I wasn't even aware of a lot of the addictive behaviors I was exhibiting, while still on Suboxone, until my counselor pointed them out to me. In my mind, one of the benefits of counseling or AA/NA or SMART recovery is learning how our "addictive ways" have become a part of our everyday life and then learning how to "fix" those addictive tendencies.

There's a member of this forum who has been on Suboxone for about 2 months and she has relapsed multiple times. She has asked and asked to be hooked up with a counselor, but for whatever reason, none have been available. It's people like her who I think would benefit greatly from an addiction counselor. How do we make sure people like her get counseling?? Or would counseling do her absolutley no good??

Like you, I am NOT trying to come off as argumentative either. I hope you know me well enough by now to know that I am not trying to be a pain in the ass either. I just find this topic fascinating and honest to God, I'm really quite proud of the fact that everyone has been very respectful to each other while discussing this hard to discuss topic.

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: For Everyone?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:24 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:04 pm
Posts: 391
I agree with alot of those points however do you beleive everyone needs therapy who suffers from addiction and on Sub or just those that continue to relapse?

They say some are sicker than others and believe me I have been in and out of AA for the last 15 years. If someone is relapsing so many times after 2mos on Subs why aren't they going to AA/NA- It's free.

I do beleive it is between the doctor and the individual and should not be mandated by anyone. I would go to AA because I didn't want to drink and soon the obsession to drink left me. Now after 2 years the obsession to use is gone......long gone so why not get on with my life.

I beleive it should be an individual decision......if you are relapsing, having addictive behaivors, PAWS or it is just not working that by all means get what you need. I know if this happens for me I will rededicate my focus to getting it right by going back to AA consistently or therapy. I think someone said it best when they said this is not one size fits all.

Thanks for the thoughts and I am glad NA and counseling is starting to work for you. Do you think if you were back on sub you would feel the need to go to NA? Just a question....

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:28 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
Hey Jim,

Honest to goodness, right after I shut my computer down and went to bed, what you said in your latest reply went through my head.....I was lying there in bed contemplating getting back up and editing my reply and I thought, Nah, he won't catch it!!! LOL!!

Yeah, I completely agree that addiction comes in all different flavors and strengths. Some are sicker than others. Hell, I've heard of people quitting alcohol/drugs with no counseling and no NA and they remain clean to this day. So, that's a very valid point you made.

If I was still on Sub, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be going to NA, but I think I would probably still be seeing my addiction counselor from time to time. My addiction is pretty dang strong though and I still exhibit many addictive behaviors in my everyday life and even if I was still on Suboxone, I would be looking to work on those to ensure I didn't relapse. I believe a good part of the reason why I never relapsed while on Suboxone was because of the work I was putting in with my addiction counselor. I don't think it's a coincidence that when I quit taking Suboxone and quit seeing my counselor that within 9 months I relapsed.

PHEW, this is a wickedly complex topic.

I think you're right, this is NOT a one size fits all thing.

Thanks for your insights Jim.

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:43 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:55 pm
Posts: 4933
Location: Leesburg, FL
I agree with ReRaise completely. As for forcing someone to attend therapy with their sub treatment, I vehemently disagree with that notion. Like Diary said, what good will come from forcing someone to do something they don't want to do and have no interest in participating in? Therapy/counseling isn't something that will help anyone if the person doesn't want any part of it. Many people in sub treatment (including I think most people on this forum) DO decide to attend counseling or NA/AA or SMART meetings on their own. Saying no one will do it if they aren't forced to doesn't give people much credit for wanting to change. I think that sells people short and is rather pessimistic. Like I said before, people are individuals and it's foolish to treat everyone the same.

_________________
-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:42 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
Hey Hat,

I certainly understand where you're coming from, but at the same time, I am one of those addicts who got on Suboxone and I would have NEVER attended counseling if the decision was left up to me. There's no way on God's green earth that I was going to attend counseling unless I was forced to do it. For the first few months of counseling, I hated every frickin' minute of it, but gradually, I started to listen to what my counselor was telling me and am I ever glad I did. Today, I'm grateful that I was forced to do it.

Surely, I'm not the only addict out there who has a stubborn streak a mile wide and a mile deep? Please don't say I'm the only one, that would really freak me out!! :lol:

I tend to agree that mandatory counseling is not the way to go, but then I have to look at myself and the all the good that came out of me being forced into counseling. Who knows what the heck I'd be doing today if it weren't for my counseling?? Would I still be on Suboxone and have no relapses?? I doubt it, but there's no way to tell for sure. Would I be off of Suboxone with no relapses at all......I HIGHLY doubt that one.

BTW, my Sub doctor forced her patients to get counseling, she did this by having us turn in a signed letter by our counselor. My counselor would have to write something to the effect of, "Romeo attended counseling on this day and time", he would sign it, date it and she insisted that a phone number be on it as well.

Again, this is a great topic with some great discussion.

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: Re: Exactly Why
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:29 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:43 am
Posts: 1019
Location: Buffalo New York
ReRaise wrote:
BBOY
This is not to come off as argumentative but exactly what is counseling for opiate addiction going to do for me? I mean I know I come from a family of alcoholics and drug addicts....hell my Dad was my drug dealer. When I take Sub I have no cravings or w/d and I have been on it for two years. What is the therapist going to tell me....It's genetic?

Many could argue that addict or not everyone.......everyone needs some type of therapy. I have had therapy in the past and guess what they did...... the same as my Sub Doc.......they prescribed medicine...after medicine........after medicine. Plus I paid ridicolous prices.

DOAQ hit the nail on the head.... there are alot of idiots out there trying to be therapist......trust me I dated a therapist once and she needed 2 or 3 herself......The quality is just not there. But I am interested in knowing what do you think counseling for opiate addiction or those that take sub will accomplish? I am not against it I would just be interested in knowing why you think it would be beneficial since I have no cravings or w/d ........no desire to use or spend the extra money from the all the money I already spend to see a sub doctor on a monthly basis........Again no animosity...I believe everyone has the right to their own recovery. Thanks.

Jim


Hey Jim It is all good no anger here I think every aspect of this topic needs to be brought to light. Like anything in life there will always be pros and cons. This is why I think some form of therapy should be mandated. I two come from a family of addicts my grandfather died because of alcoholism, my uncle is in the hospital right now because of his body giving up on him from alcoholism and benzos, 1st cousin is a heroine/crack addict and my closest uncles is a recovering alcoholic from 30 plus years of drinking, all on my mom’s side and at the end of the day I agree addiction is genetic. But each person is an individual at the end of the day we all have different brain chemistry.


Anyways yes things are going good for you while on suboxone and I am happy to hear that. But unless you plan on being on suboxone the rest of your life you will someday have to deal with the mental aspect of addiction, and in my eyes the mental aspect of addiction is more serious than the physical. (Side note suboxone was not made/intended to be a lifelong drug which was a huge plus over methadone) And not everyone wants to be on suboxone for life and once you complete your programs you will have to taper off suboxone and you will be in withdrawal, having cravings, triggers and so much more. But if you learn how to deal with those problems while on suboxone why you ARE NOT in WD and not having cravings would make life much easier right and would lower the chance of relapse because you will learn the skills it takes in therapy to beat the cravings and all the other mental aspects that pop up during withdrawal which is the highest risk of relapse no matter how long you have been clean by just taking a pill you will have all the mental aspects of addiction still with you no matter how long you are clean before you stop suboxone.. But if you just take a pill than one days decide you want to finish your treatment and stop taking subs. You will be right back where you started before suboxone what do I do to stop these cravings to stop having triggers every were I go! And if you do not learn how to deal with these issues you have a good chance at relapsing. And you have to understand these cravings and triggers will NEVER go away but with counseling and theraphy you will learn a lot about yourself and what you have to do to not brake into these cravings and continue a drug free life style. But by just taking a pill and being clean for a couple years is not going to do that no matter how strong you think you are or how bad you want it. You will one day have to deal with the mental aspect of addiction and that is why I think all addicts on suboxone should be in some form of drug treatment.



I guess in the long run I AM THINKING LONG TERM not the right now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: disagree
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:23 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:04 pm
Posts: 391
I have to disagree with that one. I am told I have a disease............if I had cancer...... medicine not therapy will help me with my disease. The same should be said with suboxone. I already know if I choose to go off suboxone I will have cravings and w/d again and even possibly suffer from relapse. So if Dr. J now says that even though sub wasn't invented for short term use it has become apparant that long term may be necessary for this disease.

We all want the easy way out. If we say we don't I believe we are lying. If I know suboxone will keep me at bay with cravings and w/d although it has side effects I would much rather do that then be off and going to therapy with the possibility of relapsing only once and dying.........so I am thinking long term as well.

Good points.....

jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: disagree
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:39 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:43 am
Posts: 1019
Location: Buffalo New York
ReRaise wrote:
I have to disagree with that one. I am told I have a disease............if I had cancer...... medicine not therapy will help me with my disease. The same should be said with suboxone. I already know if I choose to go off suboxone I will have cravings and w/d again and even possibly suffer from relapse. So if Dr. J now says that even though sub wasn't invented for short term use it has become apparant that long term may be necessary for this disease.

We all want the easy way out. If we say we don't I believe we are lying. If I know suboxone will keep me at bay with cravings and w/d although it has side effects I would much rather do that then be off and going to therapy with the possibility of relapsing only once and dying.........so I am thinking long term as well.

Good points.....

jim


See I have to disagree with that one point I think this is actually one of the biggest mistakes all Drs make, and this goes for all disease not just addiction. Sure some disease will need medication no matter what BUT NOT ALL diseases need medication to be thrown at them and be the only way to treat a patient. I mean if you plan on being on Suboxone for ever than yea you don’t have to worrier about this and what will comes if you try to get off Subs. But not everyone wants to be on Suboxone for ever and they will need to learn how to deal with life with no medication which is one of my big points and by Dr just throwing Suboxone at you and not actually really getting into the all the shit that a addict carries with them is not a healthy recovery.

Fine put it this way this diseases as in opiate addiction can over time with the right treatment can become a disease that can be beaten without having to take medications for the rest of your lifes. And if you are in treatment one day you will be able to this but this will never happen if you just take pills and do nothing about it and sorry to say I think is almost a cop out. You are letting the disease win by thinking that way and it almost scary to think about your outlook on opiate addiction for new comers thinking well if I am not on medications my diseases will never get better!!!!!!

And I am not trying to be mean or start a war I just think you really need to look at what you just said and realize that you can be on suboxone and attend therapy and one day down the road not need pills anymore. And please know guys that there is really good/smart drug counselors out there that truly know what they are talking about and can help you. Sure yes some have no hands on experience but that doesn’t mean they can’t help you. But yes some have no idea of what they are talking about but it is just like a Suboxone Dr you might have to try a few times to find the right one that might be ablet o help you. That is why I think SERIOUS GROUPS are so helpful because you are surrounded by people that do know what you are talking about and can let you know what they did to do this pill free.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:55 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:47 am
Posts: 1496
So, bboy, when will you be starting that Suboxone support group in your area?

_________________
You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf.

-Jack Kornfield


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: Personal Choice
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:18 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:04 pm
Posts: 391
Again I think it's personal choice. Our recovery is our own and should not be rubber stamped. My opinion. If I go to reading school and come out and can't read then I should keep going to reading school. I gave my history and AA helped me alot. It gave me the tools and a foundation and a way out if necessary. So do I just keep going if the obsession is gone and I can now get on with life and not spend an hour a day around people praying and discussing their personal issues or do I live my life. I am an addict it's always about me and not everyone else's recovery ........if it was I would be a counselor or a treament worker.

Today my Sub Doc said for so many years "me and my peers did not get opiate addiction". He said when "I ran the pain clinic I would dole Oxys and Percs and tell them now be careful it can be addictive. If I thought they were taking too much I would just cut them off not realizing what they went through with w/d and cravings". He said he often wonders how many people over the years that just disappeared overdosed because he cut them off.

So for me........me only....taking a pill keeps all that at bay and for now I am ok with that. I will tell you I would have done the same if they had the same thing for alcoholics....and maybe it is suboxone because even though going to AA helped relieve the obsession to drink.... since I have been on Sub I still am ok with not drinking.

My Sub Doc said that if you want to taper off I will put you on a schedule and help to get you off. But so far I have not had one patient die from an overdose because they chose to stay on sub and he is ok with that. So yes I think there are alot of people that know that Sub may be a lifelong thing for them..........and that is ok too.

Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:54 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:43 am
Posts: 1019
Location: Buffalo New York
Diary of a Quitter wrote:
So, bboy, when will you be starting that Suboxone support group in your area?




Well that is actually something I brought up to my counselor yesterday during our one on one is making a suboxone group I don’t know if that will happen but at least I said something. I think it would be cool to have 3 parts of the group 1 being what to aspect and understanding your choices and decisions entering suboxone maintenance, 2 being how to live life on suboxone in all aspects and 3 would be life after if you choose to stop suboxone. This is just a short off the top of the head thing so I know there is a lot of work to be done.

Today i was thinking how nice it would be to get this question out to nemerous suboxone DRs and see what they have to say on the topic. I mean i had 2 SUB Drs myself one was forced treatment to continue to get meds the other was just walk in get a script and see ya in 2 months. I myself have tryed to get in touch with the DR via email/pm but never hear back from him if any of you could get in contact with him please ask him to stop in this thread and share what he thinks with us.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:43 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:43 am
Posts: 1019
Location: Buffalo New York
So I was just rereading my last post in this thread about getting this question out to DRs. I really would love to hear why a SUB DR would not force drug counseling or at the very least attending groups?? I just would like to understand the concept of just giving someone pills to treat opiate addiction and not get some form of treatment along with that. I just dont get why a DR would do that as in hear take this pill see you in a couple months.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: This Angers Me
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:23 pm 
Bboy42287 wrote:
And at the same time i know alot of Sub Doctors actually put the trust in the patient to attend meetings and get self help but lie about it pretty much taking advantage of the trust the Dr gives you. And not everyone does this but i personally know alot of people who did during my time on suboxone and i am sure people still do it today.


Not everyone drinks the NA kool aid. How can you say "doctors actually put the trust in the patient to attend meetings and get self help.."

NA is not a proven treatment for addiction. Nowhere can I find a study that puts the AA/NA rate higher enough than the spontaneous recovery rate that a doctor/scientist felt comfortable saying "This is what works!"


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Disagree..
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:43 am 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:32 pm
Posts: 68
Location: New York
I come from a family with a LONG line off addicts. Every person that is now clean (which some have been now for years) in my family did it without any type of therapy or groups, a couple were even on suboxone & have yet to relapse. It depends on the person as to whether they would benefit from any type therapy or not. You cant force someone to go to therapy when they choose not to and you cant force it to benefit someone when it wont. Everyone is responsible for their own recovery not their doctors. Doctors are there for the medical part of it, yes everyone should be told about therapy by their doctor but it shouldnt be mandated. Many people have no insurance or insurance that doesnt cover subs so they are barely able to pay for the medicine let alone all the therapy you are suggesting be mandatory. If it ever was mandated then im sure ALOT of people would not be able to participate in treatment and then might not ever get the chance. If anything you should be trying to work towards awareness about what gets people in this mess in the first place so maybe some people will never even have to think about suboxone. Everyone needs to do their own recovery & make their own mistakes & learn from them, therapy wont help all of us..If we truly want this then we will get it, with or without therapy. Its the kids that are about to take their first drug that we need to get messages & help to, Its the people beings prescribed percocets for a bad back that dont know what theyre getting into.. those are the people that need help.

_________________
♥Amanda♥

*Battles are fought everyday, some you win & some you lose..Addiction is a war & every second you're still alive you're winning that war..*


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:17 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am
Posts: 893
Location: AZ
I have a bit if both take on the subject. I do not think there should be a legal mandate that anyone on sub must seek therapy or counseling. However I do believe each Dr should have the power to run their practice as they see fit. If a sub Dr requires meetings, counseling or whatever than I am perfectly fine with that. If the patient doesn't believe they need these things and does not want to participate then they can seek out a dr without these requirements.

These types of decisions should be left up to each individual Dr, not forced upon them. There are so many different levels and components to addiction and to force the same treatment on all of us makes no sense to me. We all heal in our own ways and should be treated on an individual basis.

Just my take on the subject.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: ...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:15 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:32 pm
Posts: 68
Location: New York
Thats basically what I was trying to say.. Breezy Ann just said it in much simpler & shorter terms. I always have to write a novel then sometimes forget my point lol.

_________________
♥Amanda♥

*Battles are fought everyday, some you win & some you lose..Addiction is a war & every second you're still alive you're winning that war..*


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group