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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:41 pm 
Its purely for cost reasons but I do actualy get those terrible sub headaches as well. Im going to ask him next friday when I see him again and its been on my mind everyday thinking about how I should bring it up. I'm currently on 4mgs when I realy need to be on 8mgs because I felt completely stable on 8mg but had to make the jump to 4 very quickly or else I couldnt afford it. Im just gonna say the truth "Doc I honestly dont feel stable at 4mgs and would realy like to go back to 8 because I never felt any cravings like I do now on that dose, and was wondering would you have any problem with writing it for the generic subutex? I called the pharmacy and they quoted me a months supply of 8mg tablets at 100$ and it would realy help me out and I would be able to afford that vs paying for suboxone" Do you think he will get mad at me for asking him that question? I mean he shouldnt I pay lots of money to see him and he's always been realy nice but I dont want him to think I'm trying to tell him what to prescribe and that I know better than he does or something. I realy hope it goes well Im realy counting on this and would be let down if he refuses but Im trying not to get my hopes up to much.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:20 am 
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Some doctors have no problem prescribing Subutex (generic), while others are adamant about not doing so. My doctor, for example, made it very clear that to him subutex was too risky when it comes to diversion. When I asked for the generic he shot me down in less then a minute. I guess all you can do is ask and tell him what you just told us. After all, you are getting what are probably headaches from the naloxone and an extra hundred bucks a month is nothing to sneeze at, especially in this economy.

Good luck with it and let us know how it turns out.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:01 pm 
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hatmaker510 wrote:
Some doctors have no problem prescribing Subutex (generic), while others are adamant about not doing so. My doctor, for example, made it very clear that to him subutex was too risky when it comes to diversion. When I asked for the generic he shot me down in less then a minute. I guess all you can do is ask and tell him what you just told us. After all, you are getting what are probably headaches from the naloxone and an extra hundred bucks a month is nothing to sneeze at, especially in this economy.

Good luck with it and let us know how it turns out.



Yea same thing happen to me i asked about it and was shut down in seconds. he just was not a fan of Subutext for the same reasons as hats dr.

But honestly many people on this site have switched cause of the headaches from naloxone. So its more so on how your dr views your case and subutext. At the same time you are also asking to increase your dose im wondering if this is gonna hurt or help your cause considering what some docs think on this subject.

JUST TELL THE TRUTH AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:02 pm 
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I'd say it depends on several factors.

1. The doctor - some of them just won't prescribe subutex

2. Your History - if you have IV drug use in your history, you will likely never legally obtain subutex

3. Your stability - if you're just starting out on suboxone, I doubt many doctors would be willing to switch you over. If you've been stable for a while, say, a year or more, they might be more inclined to do it.

This is all purely my opinion, nothing more


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:37 pm 
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If your dr. says no to generic subutex as backup plan you may want to ask for the film (if the film is not too much more than brand name suboxone tablets). The film absorbs MUCH BETTER and therefore you will likely get more bupe in your system. I was surprised how i felt when i switched (over medicated) and a few people on here have decreased their dosage I read in another post that username Rossma actually got sick from TOO MUCH and went from 24mg to 16mg. There are other benefits as well. You could take 1/2 of an 8mg film and put the other half in a baggie for the next day... Plus Reckitt Beckinser will pay for $75 of your out of pocket expenses until March 2011 if you just print out the discount card at suboxone.com or get the card from your doctor.

Just a suggestion, hope it helps :) I for one am very happy on the film


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:11 pm 
Yea he asked me if I wanted the film a few visits ago and gave me the 75$ coupon and when we went to get it the pharm didnt have it in stock so we just picked up my pills instead. I realy dont want the film I get great absorbtion from the tablets as is, I crush them to a dust and put it under my tongue and it works sooooo much better than just tossing the whole pill under your tongue. Id be more inclined to try the film bu the thing is is I dont want to make the switch to it and then when the coupon expires have the film possibly cost more money than the tablets or something. @Junkie, Ive never IV'd anything and Ive only been on suboxone for about 3 and a half months. I think my doc trusts me tho because I started lowering my dose right from the get go without him ever telling me to do so. Last visit he told me he was very proud of how I am doing and the progress I have been making so hopefully he will be open minded about it. I think youre right tho it all depends on the doc, some of my friends asked for it and they said their doctor was just like "yea sure I'll switch you if it saves you money" I realy hope thats the case with my doc.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:09 am 
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Well, I don't think you have much to lose by asking, but just make sure you preface the question by qualifying the financial rationale first. Good luck!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:04 pm 
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Yea its all on the dr just tell him how you fell your reasons and go from there. IF your dr has faith in you then im sure it wont be a big deal the reason most docs dont switch is like said diversion. But if your doing well in your program then you should be fine. Besides diversion another reason my dr shut me down was suboxone has been working so well for me so price or not he wanted to keep me on sub cause why change something at this point if its working so well for me after 4 years of addiction if you know what i mean. But at the same time she help me get my insurance to cover suboxone along with myself.

One thing you said you want to increase your dose back up to 8 but then said you lowered it on your own so if you switch are you trying to increase or stay at 4?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:05 pm 
Well thats kind of a tricky question. I lowered it on my own down to 4 but that was only for financial reasons, i realy wanted to stay at 8mgs but no way I could of afforded it. I think what Im gonna do is when I go in and they ask the usual ?'s of "how are you doing, feeling ok, cravings?" Im gonna just mention that I have had more cravings than I should be and have had trouble sleeping and anxiety, which is all true. Then I'll just bring up the fact that I realy would like to switch to the generic because I could save so much money and Im worried i wont be able to stay on it for much longer otherwise. If he says yes to it I will mention a dosage increase depending on how it goes but to be honest I think asking for two things like that at the same visit is pushing it a little, it just realy sucks you have to be scared to ask your doctor questions when you aren't trying to do anything sneaky but yet you feel as if your doing something wrong anyway.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:29 pm 
I dont think a dosage increase would be much of a problem to him tho because if it wasnt for the money thing he would still be writing me 16mgs daily so I doubt he will mind me going back to 8. The way i think of it is why spend all this money on the medication for maintenance and go through all the withdrawal and PAWS when I do stop taking it (if I ever do) if I'm only going to be "half stable" the entire time. Its realy annoying because as of now i hold the sub under my tongue for a freakin hour just to make sure I get every last bit because I'm on too low of dose. If Im back on 8mg where I should be I will be at or over the ceiling which will make me feel much more stable.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:35 pm 
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suboxOWNED wrote:
Well thats kind of a tricky question. I lowered it on my own down to 4 but that was only for financial reasons, i realy wanted to stay at 8mgs but no way I could of afforded it. I think what Im gonna do is when I go in and they ask the usual ?'s of "how are you doing, feeling ok, cravings?" Im gonna just mention that I have had more cravings than I should be and have had trouble sleeping and anxiety, which is all true. Then I'll just bring up the fact that I realy would like to switch to the generic because I could save so much money and Im worried i wont be able to stay on it for much longer otherwise. If he says yes to it I will mention a dosage increase depending on how it goes but to be honest I think asking for two things like that at the same visit is pushing it a little, it just realy sucks you have to be scared to ask your doctor questions when you aren't trying to do anything sneaky but yet you feel as if your doing something wrong anyway.


I was sorrda thinking the same thing about asking for a increase and swithc in the same app. But at the same time your health is more important then anything else. and if a increase is gonna help you then you have to at least talk with him about it. Honestly man dont be scard to talk to your dr about this cause you need his help to better your life and if you think you need this change and increase tell him.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:15 pm 
Well he turned me down. He agreed to up my dosage to 8mgs but wouldnt Rx the generic, which helps me none and there is no point since I cant afford it. He switched me to that bullshit film and gave me the 75$ coupon as if thats gonna help me one damn bit to afford 8mgs a day. Since I dont want the film and he woudlnt switch me to the generic even though Im a good patient who never tests dirty and never abuses me meds Im very pissed off. Im done with this shit, Im stopping suboxone cold turkey and going to relapse and use everyday again I do not care about recovery anymore Im so sick of the anxiety of being able to afford these pills when I know there is an alternative generic that costs so much less but they wont write it for me. Another thing that angers me deeply is that I found out from them at my appt. today that Im not accepted to the PAP because they already have 3 patients on it when they told me they had an open spot for me. The nurse said that one girl who is on the patient program tests dirty for opiates every single appointment and has been coming there for 6 months. She said she doesnt think its fair that she gets assistance when shes using and I dont when Ive been clean the whole time, she said if the girl tests dirty one more time they are dropping here and giving me the open spot but it sounds like a BS story to me and doubt it will ever happen. I just want to get high and who am I kidding I have wanted to get high even the entire time on suboxone, time to go flush 110 days clean of opiates down the toilet because my doc is to hard headed to write me the generic.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:25 pm 
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Please don't give up on your recovery! Do you really want to go back to the crazy-ass life of active addiction? Think of the consequences, the reasons you decided to quit and go on sub in the first place. Those reasons are still valid.

Why don't you go to the online doctor locators* and start finding a new doctor...Ask them specifically before you even make an appointment if they will, 1 - prescribe generic subutex; and/or 2 - have a PAP spot. There are plenty of other doctors out there that you haven't checked out yet. Please don't give up yet.

It's really shitty that they lied to you about having a spot open. And it's really shitty that he won't give you the generic. But please don't use your anger towards your doctor to sabotage your own recovery. He won't get hurt by it, YOU WILL.

I know you're upset and I hope you're just talking (writing) out of anger and don't really mean that you're going to quit cold turkey and go back to pain pills. Please update us when you're feeling better.

*Doctor locators: suboxone.com, suboxone-directory.com, naabt.org, samhsa.gov.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:11 pm 
Its just that the generic was my last hope for being able to continue maintenance so its not honestly that i want to stop suboxone its that I have to get off of it either way so whats the point of taking it anymore when I know life is gonna go right back to being hell in a matter of weeks. I have so much to deal with right now, I now have a permanent record, am on probation for 2 years and of course cannot get a job because they gave me that record so now every employer just blows me off anytime I turn in an application. I just know that when i stop subs Im going back to using either way so I dont realy see the need in putting it off any longer. Thanks for the encouragement you're always a realy good poster and have nice things to say but Im just sick of this. If i could afford to switch doctors Id probably give that a shot but as far as i know then you have to start all over again and pay those ridiculous induction prices which makes it not an option. I just am so upset that I got a little taste of feeling good and normal again and to have ambition and not be depressed all the time only to have it taken away so fast.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:27 pm 
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I hear what you're saying, really I do. But right at this moment you are feeling angry and defeated, among other things. Give yourself some time. When our emotions are intense, rational thought is at a low and vice versa. Let your emotions calm down a bit before you make any major decisions that you could regret. Isn't keeping this new, healthy, addiction REMISSION life worth keeping and making some phone calls? You just never know. You shouldn't and most likely wouldn't have to go through another induction or pay the initial price again. And I've heard of people getting in to see a new doctor in a matter of days. No, that's not the norm, but it does happen. There ARE doctors out there who only want to help. Why not make some calls and at least try looking for one? At the very least, don't make any decisions right now.

Hang in there. I'm hoping for the best for you.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:03 pm 
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Dear Suboxowned,

I am really upset about everything that has happened to you and I don't blame you for being angry! It's not fair - it just isn't!

If you stop the Sub now though and start using, then the desperation and obsession will return. I don't know about you but when I am using I will do anything to get more drugs, even if it involves breaking the law and I have done some awful things in the past when I was using. The need for the drug overcomes everything. With being on probation you will risk everything by going off the Sub and starting to use again at this point. Do you have any Sub left?

Is there any way that you could just agree to not make any permanent decisions until Monday? At least you could give yourself the benefit of 48 hours to consider everything.

Do you have a probation officer or any kind of a caseworker? Maybe you could make an appointment with them and just pour out your heart and tell them what is going on with you. Maybe there is some way that they could cut through the red tape and intervene on your behalf. There must be some way to deal with this. Even though it is ridiculously harder than it should be, this is your life and future we are talking about. It is really really important!

Just think about it and try to give yourself a couple of days before you do anything rash, OK? We care about you a great deal and we are here for you!

Sincerely,
Rossma


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:40 pm 
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Have you considered talking to your PCP to see if they will prescribe the subutex because they can for pain without the data waiver. The other thing is if you type in subutex doctors and your state or city on Google it will give you names of doctors that will give you subutex. Don't give up because there are quite a few who will. I will post later.... but my sub doctor and I had a long conversation this week about suboxone and the fianancial aspect and I thought it would be good to share his thoughts with everyone. Good luck.

Jim


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:57 pm 
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Hey i hope im not too late. BUt man dont give up your hard work cause of this one bad day/app. Yes it sucks very very much and see what you are saying but i dont want to see you go back down the road of addiction cause this has you down. At least think things over till you make any decisons that will hurt you in the long run. Yes you are mad now but we all get mad we all have problems but dotn fall back into addiction to cope. and with being on probation and haveing the trouble with getting a job the opiates are just gonna make things worst in many aspects. If you can get a job now whats gonan happen when you cant pass a piss test and you are haveing trouble with affording sub going back to painkillers and haveing to buy them is gonna be even more money in the long run.

But you should def try and call some other drs and tell them your situation and see if they will give you the meds you can afford. and i dont think you will have to pay crazy induction fees if you already are on sub and had to switch just so you can see a dr who will give you the meds you want and can afford. Its at least worth trying man!


What about methadone man??? i know you said if you cant afford the sub any more that you would switch to methadone and not look back in the one thread. So if worst come to worst just start Methadone maintenance for now till you can get into a dr for the meds you need to get free of addiction.

DONT TAKE PAINKILLERS MAN YOU ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN THAT I MAY NOT KNOW YOU BUT I KNOW YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON SERIOUS ABOUT HIS RECOVERY AND I DONT WANT TO SEE YOU LOSE AT THAT HARD WORK!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:07 am 
Thanks for the replies everyone, I was not planning on using for at least 2 days anyway since i know opiates wont work right now. See the problem with all this is my drug of choice was poppy pods and they are very cheap and in my opinion I found them to be stronger than oxys when you dose right and the problem is they are very cheap and carry a very strong high. I was getting a months supply of getting high for around 200$ and I would split them with a friend and charge them over a little and end up with enough to nod everyday for a month for like 40$ so that might give you guys a little bit of an idea why I want to go back on them vs paying 200-300 a month on subs plus the doctors visit. Bboy yea I would for sure get on methadone maintenance but the weird thing is the one clinic around here charges 75$ a week so its about the same as the suboxone, I always heard MMT was a lot cheaper but I guess its not. I just dont know what to do I have 11 8mg subs left and I havent taken any today and am like afraid to since I dont know if I can afford to fill my next prescription. I have some things I can pawn like my dvd collection and xbox and games and such that I dont realy use anymore but still it makes me feel like Im using addict behavior and being a junkie pawning my stuff for pills. The thing that bothers me the most about this whole thing is that the person who is taking up my spot on the patient assistance program tests dirty for opiates every visit the nurse told me and I always have tested clean and followed the rules. Id be willing to bet that person is using heroin everyday and getting her meds free from the PAP and selling them for money to buy heroin and just sitting here thinking about me having to go through hell while that person sells her pills to use when I just want to get better realy angers me. One other thing that realy has me feeling down is that I still live at home with my parents due to some bad decisions and not being able to afford my own place and when I came home from the doc my mom noticed I was upset. She asked me whats wrong and I told her that the doc turned me down for the generic subutex and she started getting shitty with me. She said "Im glad he turned you down, I was reading online about how you can get high on subutex and I know you you didnt want it for the cheaper price you wanted to abuse it and get high". Since I know that I cant get high from it I got defensive and was pretty much pleading with her to believe me that I want it so I can stay in treatment and get better. Well she starts calling me a liar and that Im an addict loser, always was, and always will be. It just takes my 110 or so days being clean and makes me feel like it doesnt mean shit and that everyone still thinks Im a loser and I cant stand it. Anyways Im gonna stop whining like a baby now but thanks everyone for your concerns its nice to know I have a place to come to where people understand and actualy care.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:17 pm 
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WOw sorry to hear those things your mom said to you. Its def hard when the people you look for support from say those things. But use that as a reason to stay clean and prove her wrong. I know its gonna be hard cause your whole money situation is not were you want it to be but you got 11 subs left youve been takeing 4mgs so just spilt them in half and that gives you 22 days to find a Dr you can afford and get the generic subutex from. Also i dont know much about methadone maintence but did you ask if they will take your assitance program thing?

And bro your 100 plus days clean mean a shit load maybe your mom made you fell like it didnt BUT IT MEANS ALOT TO YOU AND US!


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