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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:34 pm 
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Well I've been hesitating to post my experience with tapering because I wanted to be finished and a couple weeks off it before sharing, but I just couldn't wait any longer because I feel strongly about how people are tackling the issue, and I believe my situation can help a lot of people.

Background:
I have been on Suboxone/Bup for about 8 years now. I am 32 years old and my addiction with opiates started at 21. Oxycontin mostly with a little dabbling in Heroin. I was on Methadone for 2 years or so also before a successful transition to Subs. I weaned down to 25 mgs of methadone and relatively easily transitioned to 6 mgs/day of suboxone, and got down to 2 mgs/day within 2 weeks. So I had been on 1.5 mgs /day of Sub for about 7 years.

First off, I have to say being on 4mgs 8 mgs or 16 mgs as a maintenence dose is a travesty in my opinion. I'm not judging you folks, I'm trying to help. This medication is extremely strong, and effective, and to be on these large doses for longer than a few months indicates to me(TO ME) that you are still self medicating(I've been guilty of it as well) and your respective doctor's are not doing their jobs. You see, the beauty of Suboxone is that it lets you taper down relatively pain free. When you get to 2mgs, that, I think is a different ball game, but we all need to get down to 2 mg's as soon as possible. That's my take. Now I was on 1.5 mgs for many years. And it was because I was content. Don't be content! Your goals should be to get down to the lowest doses possible with the goal of stopping. When I say lowest dose, I'm talking 1/16th of ONE mg per day. Why that dose? Because that's where I am right now. It wasn't all roses, but it can be done. And I'll get even lower before I stop in a few weeks.

Now, here was my plan, and it wasn't rigid, and not everyone will be the same, but use my core points to help yourselves.

USE YOUR WEEKENDS! This is a time when you can be alone, and less accountable to the world, and not have to worry about suffering at your desk/construction site/loading dock/CEO's corner office etc. Use your weekends to weather the storm so to speak. So...when dropping doses, do it on a Wed orThursday, so the tough part happens throughout the weekend(for the most part) Push yourself through the waves(description coming) as far as you can on friday/weekends. You'll be glad you did.

DOSE TWICE A DAY 12 hours apart. So your day is started off in strong fashion, and your nights will be calm and hopefully full of good sleep. I found that dosing at 7am and 7pm worked perfectly for me. If you are already at once a day, STAY THERE. But don't spread out the differences in dosing too much when you are still on 2x daily. Try to maintain the 12 hr/12 hr schedule. SIDEBAR: I was dosing(for many years) 3 times per day, and it was tough getting to 2. Here's how I did it:

SIDEBAR: I was taking .5 mgs at 7am(or whenever I woke up), again at 1 ish, and again early evening. Whenever my body began to give me signs(a little palm sweat, a little agitation) indicated my time to dose. As I mentioned before, I AM GUILTY of self medicating too. Perfect example. Don't beat yourself up about it. The way I got to two doses, was by FORCING myself to overcome the small waves of WD. I BELIEVE THIS MUST BE DONE. It's my sincere belief, that every hour you spend in mild WD's now, softens the blow for stepping off down the road. So.... get through that first wave, because inevitably( and this is your body recuperating itself using the nature of the medication) it will pass. I found getting through that first wave of ickiness at 2pm, had me feeling better at 2:30 because it passed. Then I dosed at 3. WASH RINSE REPEAT for a few days. Or however long it takes to feel normalized. You will find within a few days, that it is substantially easier to get to 2pm than it was a few days earlier. Then 2pm becomes 230. So on and so on. It took me about 3 weeks to get to the point where I was getting to twice daily dosing. I don't think I ever upped my dose, but some may find a bit of comfort in upping there dose in the morning(SLIGHTLY-SLIGHTLY!) The key here is you must resign yourself to the fact that you will have sweaty palms the whole time. I was battling a sweaty shirt alot. PREPARE FOR THAT. IT'S CRUCIAL! It's your body fixing itself! Don't push yourself to the point where you are feeling the growl. What's the growl you ask? That point in withdrawals where your insides knot up, and you feel the need to growl like a dog. That is my description for opiate WD's. (picture Leo Dicaprio in basketball diaries) We want to stay JUST SHY of those. Got it?

NEXT UP. THE SUBOXONE FILM IS ESSENTIAL! Absolutely you must get the 2 mgs films. Procure an exacto blade, and begin planning. Fold the film in half and cut. 1 mg/1mg. Cut those in half into .5 mgs slices. And then again into .25 slices. Cut those into 1/8th mg slices. These are what you will use to taper. These are what I used.

Now when you are down to 1/8th mg twice a day, the goal is to get to once daily. For the last 2 weekends, I have been dosing on Friday night and waiting until sat night to dose again. Here's what I used in the morning on Saturdays. Neurontin and Xanax. I have 300 mg Neurontin pills, and I've been taking two of them in morning, and two mid afternoon. I also take 1mg of Xanax first thing in morning, and again just after noon ish. I DO NOT take Xanax again untill Sunday( REPEAT) and then not again until the following weekend. WHY? I've been addicted to XANAX before. Not fun. You may want to omit the xanax and use clonidine which I have been using periodically. Go with valerian root or something else.

So now I'm at 1/16th MG once a day, and I am now stretching out the dosing times exactly as I did when going from 3x daily to 2x daily. Each day I'm adding an hour. but I am always dosing at night to ensure a good sleep. This is the main fear factor with all of us. We all work, we all need to function, none of us wants to be climbing the walls at night. Not once have I woken up from sweats or cravings. Some of you may need to dose later to ensure a good night's sleep and not wake up too early. So as it stands now I'm at about 25-26 hours between dosing. I'm finding at this point I don't need to plan around the weekend, I'm just working the plan every day. Day by day. Down at these doses, things are much easier.

Just to reiterate... I have had sweaty hands and sweaty arm pits and back for the last 3 months. We have to deal with it. IT'S OUR BODY going through mild WD's. These are essential in my opinion. And get through that first wave! When my body was telling me time to dose. I would push through it. 15 mins later I felt better. Then I would push through the next wave. Then the next one. Then when I couldn't concentrate at work, or started to feel THE GROWL, I would dose. but not until then. Get through those waves one by one. Who knows, maybe one day you can get by two, but the next day you can only do one. That's ok. Just make progress over a week or 10 day period. JUST MAKE PROGRESS. How did I make progress? By getting lost in time. Young guys out there, play Socom or your fav video game that you can get lost in. Non-gamers, watch your favorite shows that have many episodes that you can get lost in. Breaking Bad, Six Feet Under, The Sopranos, Brotherhood, Nip Tuck, Band of Brothers, West Wing, that's like months of programming that I can just get lost in and pass the time. And I did. I watched all my favorite shows from the beginning, and laughed cried and found immersion in their beauty/excitement/art. Send me a PM for a list of escapist movies that will suck you into their storytelling, direction, and overall quality to help you pass the time.

Who knows how my story will end. But I am quite sure, stepping off will be easier for me than most of these other stories. And I'm EXTREMELY addicted to opiates. I've battled anxiety and depression my whole life and I have an extremely sensitive pain threshhold and nervous system. Opiates solved it all for me, while ruining my life. However, Suboxone has helped me reclaim it, and I've been "abuse free" for the duration. I will keep everyone posted when it's done. D-day is Dec 26th.

Peace yo.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:07 pm 
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broncofan - I appreciate you sharing your story, experience, and thoughts with us. I hope your taper continues to go well and that you remain successful. I hear you that for you, you believe suboxone should be a taper tool only. Well, not everyone feels that way. Not everyone's goal is (nor should it be) to stop suboxone. Some people quite simply need and are better off on maintenance. This applies to your beliefs about everyone needing to be on a low dose also. The idea of maintenance is to be at or above the ceiling so the receptors are saturated and the cravings are in check. I know you said you weren't judging, but using such a strong word as travesty in relation to another person's medication dosage is inconsistent.

Again, I do appreciate your thoughts on the subject and I welcome you to the forum. I'm confident that you will find the same support we have all found here. Keep us posted on your progress.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:32 pm 
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Yes it's a strong word. Perhaps not the best choice. But I have been able to get to successively lower doses without constant cravings... For all intents and purposes I am saturated now at 1/16th of 1 mg, because I am not craving. I would submit that I could be on this maintenance dose. MUCH less money, less visits, healthier mind/body...Thank you for your thoughts and I accept your critique. I hope people will use my guide to help them taper themselves down. The debate over maintenance versus taper is an individual decision. My main intention is to show people that stopping at 6mgs/4 mgs 2 mgs etc is a tough situation and for those who want to stop, we are looking for the easiest way to do it.


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 Post subject: broncofan
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:35 pm 
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Congratulations on your progress. So, you're at 1/16 on 1 mg, which is 125 micrograms of Bup, right? That should be about low enough to jump off. I know the Dr. on here recommends that if you can get down to under 200 micrograms of Bup, you should be able to stop. However, you should first wait until you are truly stable at the 1/16 mg/day dose.

I'm doing the same thing with the films. I practiced as soon as I got them and came up with the same idea...cut a 2-mg film into 16ths. It's fantastic to have this option now. When you switched from tablets to film, did you have any trouble? Did you have to decrease your dose? I'm not feeling that great, having just switched from 5 mg tabs to 4 mg films. Today, I'm going to take 3 mg instead. It seems like to much Bup doesn't make me high. It makes me sick. I barf and just feel like crap. I don't get that at all.

A couple things you said don't entirely sit well with me. I don't want to start a debate. However, all those of us on higher doses than the small dose you recommend aren't 'self-medicating', IMO. There is a ceiling effect from Sub. So, it's not as if the higher doses are getting you high. Plus, I wasn't an opiate addict to start with. I was put on Sub for pain maintenance and to avoid opiates like Oxy, because I'm a recovering alcoholic. You have to take 24-32 mg to get any relief at all from pain. There's plenty of people life me who are put on Sub for pain, or for anxiety, or for depression. Sometimes the doses need to be high to achieve the desired effect. Everyone is just not the same. From what I've observed, recovering opiate addicts on Sub aren't self-medicating either. They're busy putting their lives back together and then enjoying normalcy. If it was making them feel 'self-medicated', I'm pretty sure that opiate addicts would be very tempted to keep taking more and more Sub. That just isn't what happens in general. I do agree that there seems to be a lot of doctors who prescribe way higher doses than needed, and many times the patients go along with it, not because they are 'self-medicating' but because they don't understand their dose is too high and are just trusting their doctors. I don't think many doctors understand this medication very well and don't always know that they are over-prescribing.

I absolutely do not think that everyone should have getting off Sub be their ultimate goal!!! I don't think it's a good idea for people who are just getting onto Sub and off their DOC to even have getting off Sub on the horizon in their minds. When people get onto Sub, normally they have a huge mess to clean up; they have to totally rebuild their lives. I used to see Sub as a sort of evil until I realized how much this drug truly helps people turn their lives entirely around. People stable on Sub can live healthy and normal lives, sometimes for the first time in many years. Many of those people had no hope of ever living life without their heroin or their Oxy. It's a miracle when they can!! If Sub can get Oxy and H addicts in a place that allows them to work and be parents and care for all other responsibilities, how can it be a bad thing? For many addicts, I believe that getting off Sub will most likely result in going back onto full-agonist opiates. I've seen this happen at meetings so many, many times. It's the saddest thing. Isn't it better to stay on Sub and not fall back into the old opiate addiction cycle? I know that abstinence from everything is another option, but I don't think it's a viable option for everyone. It's really a personal choice, and choosing to be on Sub indefinitely is many times the most responsible choice a person can make.

I hope your taper continues to go well!! Keep posting about it. It really helps other people like me know what to expect.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Hey Broncofan,

Thank you for sharing your story. I wish you well finishing off your taper and hope you have a lifetime of sobriety. I honestly do.

Now, there are several instances where I disagree with your 'opinion' completely.

Cloaking a horrendous opinion with "it's just my opinion" does NOT negate the fact that it's still a horrendous opinion. I know, I know...everyone is entitled to their opinion...the only problem I have with that is sometimes those opinions are just plain wrong. For ex. I'm of the opinion that I'm an awesome looking guy, but every girl I have ever asked out said I'm ugly as sin. My opinion of my great looks was obviously wrong.

Stating that it's a travesty to be on a maintenance dose like 4mg is the real TRAVESTY...not being on a maintenance dose of 4mg, 8mg or 67.85mg.

What's your favorite food, mine is pigs feet...I bet yours ain't pigs feet. WHOA, wait a minute...your favorite food and my favorite food are not the same? How can that be...were both members of the human race, right...how can we not have the same favorite food. OMG, are we possibly different...could it be? Maybe that difference even carries over to how a medicine like suboxone treats us? Were all different, man. More so than you understand apparently.

I'm glad your method worked for you, I really am. I mean I've been stoned, I've been lost, I've done stupid things and I'm always happy to hear of someone who is clawing their way back to life. I just don't enjoy the cookie cutter approach that my way is the best way to get sober...it worked for you and more power to you, man. But, I think do to the human races obvious differences that there is no one right way to use suboxone.

So, tell your story, but don't preach maybe...I get enough preaching from the preacher man on Sundays.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:34 am 
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You have gotten some great, well thought, and well-written responses. When you consider that they came over the Internet on a message board - where people can be and often are notorious ass-holes - that is really saying something. I am so proud to be a part of such a great community with such smart, well-spoken people. I think they have done a great job of responding to your comments and presenting some great thoughts. I can only hope to add just a bit.

In reading your posts, you appear to be an intelligent and smart individual. You certainly have a lot of experience with all of this. I once read a book that gave me some great insight and information and that is what I am about to share with you. It is pretty clear that you feel that your thoughts, ideas, methods, etc. are the way things should be done. In other words, your way is the right way. And you know what? It is. Your way really is the right way. The problem is it may only be the right way - FOR YOU. Getting to a low maintenance dose, tapering, struggling over the weekends, etc. is the right way - FOR YOU. It just may not be the right way for others. That does not make you or them wrong. You still get to be right. Your way is the right way - FOR YOU. I would really not argue with a lot of what you have said - again when it comes to you. It just may not be the right way for everyone.

When I first read this book, I found it to be very powerful, because, like you, I often felt that my way was the right way. I knew best. I knew the right way. And I was right, and I still am - much of the time anyhow. But when I am right, I'm often only right for me. I may not be right for others. Does that make sense?

So when you say something like "Your goals should be to get down to the lowest doses possible with the goal of stopping," that really is YOUR GOAL and may not, and in some cases should not, be the goal of everyone else. When you say "Absolutely you must get the 2 mgs films," again, that may be the best for you, while others have used something called the liquid taper method and do just fine without the film. When you say "We all work," you are forgetting that for a variety of reasons, not everyone has a job outside of the home - so we all do not work.

I could go on and on, but you get the point. I hope this helps just a little bit for you. As you continue to gain more experience I'm sure you'll come to agree that not all the time are things black and white and words like "everyone, always and absolutely, don't always fit.

I truly hope that the taper you are using works for you. I would certainly caution you about using Xanex, especially since you already have a history of problems with it. All too often the phenomenon of "switching addictions" comes into play and I'd certainly hate to see this happen to you. At the end of the day, for pretty much everyone, the measure of success with regard to addiction is not being able to stop, but being able to stay stopped. Often times the best we can hope for is to be able to manage our addiction. While it certainly will be a major triumph for you to be able to stop your daily Suboxone intake, the real challenge will be staying free of all substances. For most people, jumping off of Suboxone is a battle, while the real war remains staying clear of all drugs and substances.

Please continue to let us know how you are doing. I am certainly there are many hear who are anxious to continue to read about your story and following along and even support you over the next weeks and months.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:49 am 
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Hey guys, I get it... Travesty is the wrong word. Move to strike from the record.

That said, I reject the idea that our collective goals should not all be to get off the meds. I'm sorry.... Isn't this the "STOPPING SUBOXONE" thread? I mean, isn't it?

When I was younger, weaker, less mature, I resigned myself to the fact that I would be on it for the rest of my life. Because, well....It's easier that way. Much easier. And I spent the subsequent years having to worry about running out of meds if I took a trip, hiding the meds from girlfriends or family members, spending money that should be going towards NFL Sunday ticket and gambling debts(joke) on doctor's visits etc etc etc. I've made a choice to STOP SUBOXONE, hence sharing my thoughts in the STOP SUBOXONE congregation area. So for those who are on the fence, or are of the same mindset, USE YOUR WEEKENDS, USE THE FILM, and TAPER DOWN. I've not once felt shitty and in WD at work throughout my process. Yes I force some mild symptoms to come up when I am most able to deal with them(weekends) and I've noticed the taper process to be consistent, relatively pain free, I'm sleeping soundly, I'm feeling fine starting my days, and if my plan strikes a chord with you than use it. But shouldn't we reject the idea that Subs should be used for depression, for example? I don't know a doctor worth his salt that would consider that sound medicine. Opiates should never be used to treat depression. Shouldn't we reject the idea that it's ok to spend hundreds/thousands of dollars per year to keep ourselves comfortably numb on 16mgs a day of Suboxone? That is institutionalized addiction in the same vain as methadone maintenance.

YES, suboxone used as a maintenance medication, can help us reclaim our lives, establish some normalcy, and swiftly help us rid ourselves of addictive and destructive behavior. No doubt. All I'm saying is that instead of spending 6 years and countless $'s like me on high doses, get down to a near homeopathic dose, and when you're ready take that next step.

My main point is, to help save $, condense the process, and make the jump easier. That's why I posted in the Stopping Suboxone thread.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:03 am 
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So when you were "weak" and "immature" you thought you should stay on sub for life? That sounds like you're intimating that those of us who feel that way must then also be weak and immature. Then you say that we're "comfortably numb" on suboxone? Do you not see why what you are saying is pretty offensive? By saying such things you're essentially not respecting the choices of other members of this forum. And that's not what this forum is about. You are obviously quite free to share your experiences and opinions, but please do so in a more respectful manner.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:20 am 
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I have to agree with hat and my boy Romeo (except I don't like pigs feet lol). The bottom
Line is that we are in control of our dose and we should be on whatever dose works for you and controls cravings. I have had my dose changed 3'times
Since I have started on sub. The dose I am on now really helps with my cravings so much.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:42 pm 
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I think what I wrote was.... "When I was younger, weaker, less mature" because it describes who I was at the time. Not you, me. That's why I used the word "I".

I'm a little miffed. Wouldn't everyone want to be on a tiny dose if they felt the same as they do now? Better? Wouldn't you want to spend a fraction of what you pay now, particularly if you had no insurance? Wouldn't you want to be healthier, more alive, less medicated? And if you don't, if you are content at 6mgs a day, or 16 mgs a day( as mature and full of strength as I'm sure you are) why are you in the STOPPING SUBOXONE FORUM? You are in here because you feel, somewhere in your subonscious, somewhere in the back of your head, or somewhere right out in the open, that staying on it is not sustainable for you. And you want to make some progress. Cool.

Listen, I'm not trying to start some flame-fest. I'm talking about my experience in trying to STOP SUBOXONE. Again, that's why I posted in the STOPPING SUBOXONE thread.

So, for those who are clicking on the STOPPING SUBOXONE thread, with the interest of STOPPING SUBOXONE and are scared to death of doing it, and are hoping and praying for some help, or advice, here's my
advice.

Get the film. It's easy to cut into tiny pieces and you don't have to worry about crumbling chunks of pills, pill bottles, water droppers etc etc. Cut it into tiny slivers of 1/16th of 1 mg, and use those slivers, to taper down slowly. Regardless of what dose you are on. Timing your taper to start on wednesday thurs or friday, so any discomfort(which will be mild) you might have appears over the weekend, when you are best equipped to deal with it(in privacy, in comfort of home) is my next suggestion.

Yes my way is the best way for me. But honestly people, if you are looking to STOP SUBOXONE, don't you want to do it in the simplest, easiest, least painful way possible? Suboxone is profoundly powerful. I rarely read about success story posts by people who stopped at doses higher than 1 or 2 mgs, and I see HUNDREDS of posts about people unsuccessfully trying to stop at 8mgs, 6, 4, 2. And they are miserable.

Follow the plan, don't let yourself be miserable, and you'll see your dosage halved in no time. What that time might be is a month, it might be 3 months. Who knows.

If you want to STOP SUBOXONE, set yourself up for success. That's what I'm trying to do for myself, and I'm witnessing the progress in amazement, wishing I had at least cut down to these doses 6 years ago. I would've saved myself approximately $8,000.00 by my estimation.

Romeo, I don't mean to preach. I mean to insist.

If someone is visiting this thread, and wants to start the process of stopping Suboxone, I would insist to them, that they get the film, and use their weekends, and taper down in increments that challenge them slightly.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:43 pm 
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You're right, this is the stopping suboxone thread where people who have decided to stop or who are thinking about stopping suboxone can ask questions or share information and experiences. The thing is that not everyone on the board has made that decision. Some people plan to stay on Suboxone indefinitely after careful consideration with their doctors. But they still keep tabs on the stopping suboxone thread. Perhaps because they're thinking about stopping. Perhaps because they're merely curious how people are doing and/or want to be supportive of them. So even on the stopping suboxone thread, the moderators (and the rest of us) expect everyone to be respectful and supportive of other people's decisions about their treatment.

Your statement "wouldn't everyone want to be on a tiny dose if they felt the same as they do now?" is theoretical and implies that if everyone followed your plan they would be successful. Well there are many people who have pretty smart doctors who might not agree with the efficacy of that statement. I mean, you're not a doctor are you? Should people be following the advice of their doctors or you?

I think all people are saying is to by all means share away with your experiences, so that those who do identify with you can benefit from the wisdom of your experience. You've got some good info in this post that I bet will be useful to those who see the world through your lens and want to stop. But that's not everyone. If you just avoid unequivocal statements that presume that everyone has the same goals as you or would respond to treatment the same as you, then you'll find that this board is full of support. Why would that miff you?


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 Post subject: Thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:54 am 
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Well I have read your posts in this thread and I take suboxone and I have been for 20 months......I am not sure I even have the energy to respond to the pettiness of some of the crap you have taken....just so you know... most...certainly not all ...let me be clear not all......know that crap......is another word for shit- its what we do if we are not constipated from taking suboxone. The point is that as you are finding out instead of reading your post and trying to understand your experience and the fact that you are offering your opinion and have said so.....many times....some will read your post and pick out one word or phrase and find a reason to give their version of what is...is. It is funny that some people read these post and think that you directed the post specifically to them........you did not. You are sharing an opinion, a plan and a goal. As you are finding out if your opinion, plan or goal does not coincide with the person that is reading it well you must be wrong..........

As you have started to see this is a pro suboxone site so you must check each word...spelling and your grammer to make sure it is correct or else the point you might try to make will be lost in the translation as you are being scolded for doing or sharing exactly what those that are responding are sharing ........your opinion. Unfortunately everyone is so important that their way is the best way just like what you think is your best way. It's just too bad people can't read a post from someone sharing their experience and not turn it into "Let me tell you all the things you are saying that is wrong" ...I am right and you are not......It really is silly. So as you are seeing continue to keep your comments about you and what you have experienced and try not to hurt anybodies feelings because we are all sensitive addicts that instead of finding common ground and just respecting another person's viewpoint....we are turning into referee's and everyone has a whistle......waiting to call foul. It is almost not worth posting unless you censor your ideas and thoughts for fear of being bashed by other addicts. I have noticed that lately alot of posters who have been here a long time have just gone back to lurking while others sit waiting for a new member to come along and share a thought only to be beat up or thrashed because they believe you are talking about them personally......and your thinking is flawed.

We are all suppose to be supporting one another not pointing out each others flaws. Perhaps the Moderators might want to consider using PM's more to spread the message if you think the poster is out of line or has misspoke. I think sometimes it evokes others to pile on to the new person that has a different idea than others. This will surprise you but someone will not like this post either. I will be fine. We all live and learn. When I first got on this forum I did not read the rules........but I think the most important rule we have posted is Please show the respect for the decisions of others. Good Luck with your plan. It may work for some but not for others but that is ok. Those that are committed to taking this medicine for the rest of their lives will not be swayed.......why because they don't want to stop suboxone. Some do and will and that is ok too....

Jim


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:18 pm 
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ReRaise - your point resonates with me a fair bit because I tend to be an "information transparency" kind of guy and not particularly "PC." I am also pretty new to the board. I also re-read my post and can see it is snarky and pedantic which I didn't really intend, believe it or not (it was late). So I owe Broncofan an apology for that.

I've checked out a few boards and what I didn't like about them is how unstructured they were and how easily flame wars seemed to get started. It typically seem to stem from one member making assertions that other members were offended by and didn't agree with. When people start arguing, facts become twisted. It's human nature. I found the information to be very confusing and ultimately not useful. What I like about this board is that it's structured and there are some rules about being more fact-based and personal in your discussion and not generalizing. It's made it easier for me to spot a post that seems relevant to my situation and get some facts without a lot of argument obscuring the discussion.

The trade-off to that, as you point out, is that people might feel less inclined to share their experiences on treatment methods which maybe can help some people, for fear that they're crossing that line. Perhaps an answer is to have a Debate thread on the board (if one doesn't exist already) where people can sound off on their opinion about their approach and not feel like they should need to hold back in any way. A safe harbor for unvarnished opinion.

I will say that I am not on Suboxone maintenance and I have felt very welcomed in my postings on my experience doing a rapid Subutex taper from my prescribed pain medications. I've shared my experience and tried not to impose a view that it's the best approach to take. I think if I did, I might inadvertently send a reader down a path that's not appropriate for them and not in their best interest. At the end of the day, I feel people should set their treatment course with their doctor and then use a board like this for advice and support from other patients. That was the only point I was trying to make.

Best wishes to all in whatever treatment course you choose.


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 Post subject: to *Matt*
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:26 pm 
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[font=Century Gothic]As usual before posting I have read every response to this specific poster *broncofan*'s post on stopping suboxone and his grandiose thoughts and method for tapering blah blah blah, and as usual i must say that the responses I read from my Suboxone family such as *HatMaker* and *Romeo* make me proud to be a part of this forum of such intelligent and atypical addicts and by that i mean no disrespect i merely mean a wonderful class of people who are intelligent productive members of society oh and they just happen to be recovering addicts lol. and as usual you guys take the words right out of my mouth and i wind up reading and thinking damn you guys i was just gonna say that!! lol but this time i think i have to give the kuddos award for "One Hell of A Great Response" to *matt* when i read your reply *matt* i said to myself out loud wahoo good for you *matt* way to stand up for us! You make a hell of an addition to our little family here man! And thank you for you well written,well thought out and well phrased response. [/font]

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Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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