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 Post subject: The junkie lable
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:33 pm 
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I just posted a few days ago about a horrible er visit that I had in relation to suboxone and now I have had a horrible dr visit. I need to have surgery on my back. I stopped suboxone weeks ago by the way. My previous dr no longer practices so I had to find a new dr to clear me for surgery. I finally found one that was able to get me in today so I went to see him. I told them that I was there to attempt to be cleared for surgery. He looked through my paperwork and did some digging on his computer. Go figure that he found out about the suboxone. Once again I was treated like a total junkie that was just there looking for a "fix". I even told him that I wasnt looking to be prescribed anything, I just wanted to do what was needed to be cleared for surgery. Long story short I walked out of there feeling like a low scum bag junkie and I wasnt even set up for another apointment to even be cleared for surgery. I really dont know what to do in all honesty. If I try and find another dr to clear me then I could be accused of dr shopping and create problems I am not looking for. I am getting desperate for help, I cant stop crying because I have no quality of life, and I am just trying to get myself fixed. Why is it that when I say I dont want anything for pain I am automatically lying? I used to get narcotics from different drs all of the time before suboxone. Is there a huge red flag next to your name in all of the databases once you start taking it? I have honestly NEVER felt this low and I dont even want to live my life like this. I have the stigma of a junkie because I messed up. I can't get out from under it and because of it I cant find a dr willing to work with me to fix my back. I am a HUMANBEING!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:56 pm 
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I'm so sorry you've been put through this. No one - NO ONE - deserves to be treated that way.

How about this...Instead of seeking out a surgeon, why not find yourself a primary care doctor to attend to all of your needs and then develop a relationship over a couple of visits and then s/he can clear you for the surgery. At least that's how I would do it.

Unfortunately, bias and hatred have not been extinguished yet. It still exists in all fashions against all different groups of people. We just have to keep educating people about addiction when we can and take the high road if and when we can. Again, I'm sorry they treated you like shit.

I hope you find a compassionate doctor soon.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:07 pm 
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If it were me I would find another Dr and start the appointment by explaining to him that you were on sub for addiction and the way you have been treated by other drs. Maybe if you are the one that brings it up it will help the Dr to see your true motives.

Hat is right, nobody deserves to be treated like that. I am so sorry for what you've been thru and hope you can find help.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:33 pm 
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No one should be treated that way but we are and it sucks :x I had a similar experience with my Dr yesterday.
It almost makes me question my own recovery!!!! Was it the right move to get off the opiates??? The scarest thing about all of this, Is I have to be on opiates to function. It is something I have to have not only addiction but to live a decent life.

Mj12
They can not get you for Doctor shopping you did not get any meds, that is what they're looking for. We all have the right to switch doctors as long as we aren't getting meds from both drs. I feel your pain and I undersatnd how you feel.
Just don't give up!!!! Their has to be a caring Dr out there for us. Did you try to get a referal from your Dr that quit. try to get in touch with the surgeon they may know of a good dr to send you to for your clearing.

It was not hard to find a doctor to prescibe the pain pills but it looks like a challenge to find one to treat us like human beings after becoming dependent on them
Mel :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:19 am 
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Thank you all for the words of support. The dr that I saw today was a family practice dr. I told him I wasnt looking for anything pain wise, I just wanted to be cleared for surgery. I cant see the surgeon and schedule the surgery until I am cleared. I honestly feel as if right now my options are done. I have been given the lable and no doctor wants to even be in the same room with me. It seems as if you have been on suboxone in the past and mention the word pain then you are seeking. I think I have just come to the conclusion that I will live in pain everyday for as long as I can take it because I can not face going to another dr that is probably going to judge me. I havent had a good quality of life for a long time now so why start now? Im not trying for a pity party. I know that I am responsible for my own actions and I caused what I am going through. My pain levels hit a 7 almost everyday and I still havent asked for anything to relieve the pain. It just seems like when you mix the words pain and suboxone together then you are a junkie. I dont want to be in chronic pain. I didnt wake up one day and ask to herniate a disc. I didnt ask to have tmj which causes chronic headaches. I certainly didnt ask to be a junkie when I grew up, but in societies eyes thats what I am. I am living in a downward spiral of pain and depression and I get lower everyday. I had thought that I hit rock bottom when I started suboxone but I actually feel lower than I did then. I feel like a junkie now that I have been treated like one recently. Like I said before I am just going to have to figure out how to live without fixing my back. I cant go back to another dr and be treated like what I have been led to believe that I am. I am just scared of how its going to be when I do hit the bottom and I cant take it anymore. Im not blaming the drs for my use but they did help aid in it. Prescribing 90 percs a week to a person is pretty excessive. Itvwas easier to get help when I was using than it is now. I used to buy on the street at the height of my addiction as well. It always amazed me how many pills drs would prescribe to people. I have seen a person get as many as 240 at a time. Wtf drs? Maybe you should take a little responsibility for your actions as well. Suboxone helped me but it also created a lable that I have to live with now.


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 Post subject: something
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:38 am 
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doesn't sound right. Are you telling us everything? If you need legit back surgery, a surgeon could give a shit less if you were on bupe(they will cut on you for legit reason)...really?...you have been denied by a couple DRs.???...I'm not saying your lying, I'm just sayin we probably don't know the whole story. :roll: Also, seeing a couple docs ain't shopping as long as they aren't prescibing meds. Any surgeon , for legit reason, would cut on you and send you home with 30 vics.....regardless of your drug history.... I don't buy it.. :roll:







Mod squad- please don't delete this post


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 Post subject: wow
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:17 am 
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My advice would be to find a sub doc or pain mgmt doc who is part of a larger group and get a referral from the sub/pain doc to a general practice doc in his/her group. Of course I don't know where you live but this would obviously be easier in a bigger city. Maybe there is a pcp in the surgeon's group who you could see. Don't give up.

I must say your post has me freaked out. Before my first ever sub doc appt a buddy told me I was crazy for getting into the "system" with this on my medical record. I didn't think anything of it - the sub doc was not associated with my pcp, my insurance is through my spouse, so I didn't worry about it.

Fast forward 6-7 years, and most all docs in this area now subscribe to something called Allscripts, which is an electronic medical record database. Any doc I go see now has instant access to my prescription history, diagnosis, everything. I don't know how they can get away with it, but they do. So much for privacy. And more and more employers are requesting medical records for employment. I'm lucky to have a good job now, but in my line of work people move around a lot and I don't expect this job to last forever. I too almost regret seeking help.

F*ck big brother.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:15 am 
I don't give medical advice on the internet so don't construe this as "advice."

If I were in your situation...
I would simply go to a walk-in clinic and pay them to do a complete history and physical exam on me.
That would generate the appropriate paperwork/medical records needed for a thorough pre-op evaluation.
Then I would sign a ROI and have them send a copy of that record to the surgeon's office.

If they said that they don't do surgical clearances... you could ask them to schedule you for either a "sports physical" or a FAA flight physical. Ether will suffice.

YMMV


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:16 am 
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I know you are discouraged right now, and I don't blame you. But not all doctors are that way. Some are, yes. Maybe even many, but NOT ALL. I have several chronic conditions and I see a few different specialists. Not one of my doctors have ever batted an eye at me being on suboxone. One time I was oversensitive and thought my doctor was giving me a hard time about it. But I look back now and see that I wasn't being objective about the situation and I was indeed being oversensitive. I'm NOT saying that's what you're doing - Just that that's what I did.

Let's try a different perspective. Surgery is indicative (usually) that the person will need pain meds after. That's almost always a given. Try to look at it from the outside. Even though you weren't asking for pain meds, what you were asking for is a procedure where you would be given pain meds - most likely. Again, I'm not saying this was your intention. I'm suggesting it's possible that the doctor you saw interpreted the situation that way. It's most unfortunate that he didn't take the time to actually have a conversation with you about it.

But putting the past aside, like the others have said, KEEP TRYING. But if it were me, again, I'd just try to get a new PCP and establish a relationship with them first, before jumping right into asking for surgery. But that's just me.

I really hope you find someone soon who will listen to your needs and not their hateful judgments swirling around in their piss-ass heads.

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-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:32 am 
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I guess I am not clarifying myself well enough. I am having problems getting to see the surgeon because he will not schedule me into an appointment until I get cleared to see him. I thought that I had put that in my post. I also put in my post that I didnt want to be sent home with anything other than a clearance to see the surgeon. This was done by a brand new dr that I tried to establish myself with. I did not see any other dr other than an er doctoer because I was told that if I ever started losing control of my bladder then I need to go in. Kind of funny how one poster questions my story kind of like the dr did when all I wanted was for him to say that I am healthy enough for surgery. Dont question the story, say I am not lying, then turm around and say that it is fishy. That is all a contridiction within itself. If you read what I wrote you would know that I am no longer even on bupe.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:54 am 
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Please don't give up Mj, you really need to have this surgery done from what you have told us. Please call the surgeon's office and tell them that you are having trouble getting a doc for the clearance because of having been on Suboxone. They should be able to refer you to a doc that will do it, and I believe with the surgeon's referral they won't turn you away. Also, like someone else said, be upfront about the Sub. When they "find" it in the database they think you are trying to hide it.
I don't blame you for being discouraged. But don't give up. You've come this far, keep fighting.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:37 pm 
Seems like its being over-complicated unnecessarily...

Open the yellow pages and find a cash WALK-IN clinic.

Walk in... tell them you need a Complete History and Physical exam, EkG and Labs completed and be prepared to pay cash.

Quote:
Complete History

Chief Complaint
History of Present Illness
Past Medical History- Diabetes, HTN, Thyroid, DJD, Periphrial neuoropathy, Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain, CAD-S/p CABG-2005, S/P TAH-2001, Substance Dependence
Social History (occupation, drugs/alcohol, etc)
Family History
Allergies
Current Medications
14 point Review of Systems

Physical Exam

Vital signs
Head to toe physical exam

Labs (EKG and Blood Work)

Impression-Problem List
Urinary Incontinence/Retention
Type II Diabetes
HTN
Thyroid
DJD
Periphrial neuoropathy
Fibromyalgia
Chronic Pain
CAD-S/p CABG-2005
S/P TAH-2001
Substance Dependence

Plan
1.) Urinary incontinence alternating with Urinary retention- Bladder suspension urgery planned with Dr. Zhivago, MD on 02.12.12- Based upon this H&P, labs and ECG, I see NO contraindications to planned surgery. Patient and Surgeon will need to collaborate closely and carefully on a pain management plan due to patient's significant past history of substance dependence and current chronic pain issues.

2.) Type II Diabetes- Continue Metformin 500mg po TID. Stop Metformin 48hrs before above surgery date. Xheck FSBG 4 x/day and use sliding scale for coverage if needed. Resume Metformin 48hrs after surgery.

3.) HTN- Blood Preassure is adequetly controlled on current medication. Continue Lisinopril and HCTZ as previously ordered.

4.) HypoThyroidism- TSH WNL. Continue Levothyroxine 50mcg as previously ordered.

5.) Degenerative Joint Disease (DJD)- .......................
6.) Periphrial neuoropathy......
7.) Fibromyalgia.....
8.) Chronic Pain......
9.) CAD-S/p CABG-2005-Adequately controlled Patient without Angina or equivilants with streneous daily exercise. ECG demonstrates a NSR, with NSST changes. Patient is on ASA 81mg po qd and will stop this 7 days before planned surgery.
10.) S/P TAH-2001- Continue Estrace/Prempro....
11.) Substance Dependence-(Opiods)- Patient will need to recieve adequate post surgical pain control with a rapid but appropriate taper with consideration of patient's past medical history and issues with substance dependence.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:57 pm 
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IIm sorry but im sorrda with indigo hear. If you have legit needs for a serious medical procedure no DR is going to send you on your way because you were on suboxone key word WERE so u are not even on suboxone any more to top it off. There has to be more to this than just that. I mean do u know how many suergons i saw during my time on suboxone and not one ever gave me a ill look. Like i said if u have legit reasons to have an operation done that would improve your quality of life it wouldnt matter if you were on anything they would help you or at least refer u to someone else worst case scnario.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:56 pm 
One issue is that once they cut on you... they are leglly and ethically obligated to provide you with adequate pain control...

Lots of surgeons see this as a burden and increased liability if there is any hint of substance used disorders.

When they know that you are established with a provider that they can "turf" you to... who they can defer all pain control issues to a few days to a week post surgery... then typically they are more willing to proceed.

If this isn't in place... that surgeon has assumed indefinate 24hr responsibility for either managing the pain and/or the impending inevitable spiral down into active all out dependency and the issue that acccompany that.

Think about it...

Someone comes to you and basically says "Substance A destroyed my life, and almost killed me, but I finally got a handle on it and am in a good place without it"

Hopefully you are gonna be reluctant to do anything that will require the re-introduction of Substance A back into their life.
If you simply have to re-introduce Substance A... hopefully you are gonna make damn sure EVERYTHING is in place (Mental Health specialists, Addiction specialists, Social Work, a Primary care provider, etc) to assist that person with the issues that WILL arise upon the re-introduction .

So yeah... I believe the OP as the Surgeon's reported hesitency is reasonable.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 12:46 am 
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I just made an account on here and I just saw this topic. Hopefully by now you have got this problem solved but I’m confused about one thing. I was told by my doctor that the only people that would ever know are the people I tell and my insurance company. I’m not sure if it’s different because this is a surgery or the state you are in but now I am curious who has access to information with such a high level of confidentiality and also because doctors are supposed to be professional.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:39 am 
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I AM SORRY YOU R BEING TREATED SO BAD BY MEDICAL DOCTORS ETC...THEN TO SEE YOU ARE BEING CALLED A LIAR BY SOME FORUM MEMBERS TO BOOT. AS IN ANYONE POSTING SCENARIOS OF SUCH COMPLICATED MANNERS WE OFTEN DO NOT GET THE WHOLE IDEA OF UR STORY BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU ARE LYING. (NOTE THE MOD SQUAD SHOULD DELETE HIS POST.)

Its not so necessary you tell us every little thingamajig so we dont accuse you of leaving part of the story out etc...From what I see you need to get cleared for surgery and are being discriminated against because you took/take suboxone. I know that is seems since you have been off suboxone for a week or so in efforts to have a surgery to improve your life has not been an advantage it appears. And I personally do not think you needed to totally go off of it I would find a surgeon and tell him you are willing to taper off prior to surgery but you must ask him to treat you as a patient and not a junkie. You have entered into suboxone maintenance to treat the junkie part you need him to treat the surgery for whatever part. Your suboxone doctor should take the responsibility in finding you a doctor that can and will clear you for surgery. I would go to my doctor at your suboxone clinic and explain the problem and ask his advice.

Once again sorry for the behaviors on this site.

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