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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:09 pm 
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Hey guys.

This has been a topic of interest in another active thread, and I find it interesting myself ... so I thought it deserved its own thread. And this forum was the perfect place for it. I do feel that talking about this too much can be harmful as well though, as some people on Sub may feel the urge to jump off before they're ready if they're made to feel like they're missing out too much on a quality of life.

From the point of view of those who WERE on Sub, and are now abstinent, how do you think the feeling of Sub compares with being opioid free? I remember Laddertipper talking about how life seemed more fulfilling / engaging now she was off buprenorphine. I can relate to this in some ways, as I felt more emotionally involved in life when I was doing the abstinence shuffle. Buprenorphine, and to a greater amount methadone, does create an emotional buffer for me. This was exactly why I loved opioids in the first place. They detached me from my life emotionally.

While I am much more in touch with myself and people around me ON sub than I was in addiction, it still does have that mild agonist effect.

I noticed this a lot when I was scuba diving at the start of the year. When I was clean, diving was a massive buzz for me. Dropping down 30ms on top of a reef shark got me pumped and I'd be on a high after every dive. When I dived this year on Sub, it did feel a bit like "meh ... moray eel ... cool ... whatever". It was less engaging. Same went for when I went cliff diving / rafting ... general adrenaliney things have felt a bit blunted.

While I did feel more in-on-the-action when I was off opioids, it had its negatives too. I felt life's ups and downs a lot more. And for someone with bipolar whos emotions can be overwheling at times, crying over a piano, sometimes I missed the relative obliviousness of opioids. And I DID actually crave buprenorphine, because I KNEW if I busted on buprenorphine my life wouldn't self-destruct within a couple of weeks. But in my city, heroin is a lot easier to find than Suboxone. And if you want Suboxone, you HAVE TO pick it up every day. Not every few weeks for a bit of a holiday.

One thing that Laddertipper said resonated with me a lot ... that her memories of her life on buprenorphine were a blur. Large periods of my life, especially those while I was in addiction or maintenance, are a blur for me while I'm abstinent. I know that if I stopped buprenorphine now, a lot of memories from my relationship and the things I've done while on it would deteriorate. I dunno if it's a state-dependent thing -memories we make on a drug are harder to recall when we're no longer on it?

I'm interested in how everyone's feeling now post-Sub ... what were the benefits of living on Sub compared to clean of opioids?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:57 pm 
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Tearj3rker below is a post from day 17. I am on day 26 now. Answers your question on the feeling of abstinence.


6 years total opiate use with three years of sub 8 mg down to 1mg before jump 17 days ago. First I want to thank a few posters. Romeo, Tearjerker, Laddertripper, diary of a a quiter. Your posts have gotten me through the thick of it and I am grateful for this. Yesterday I made the mistake if having a few beers at the beach near my old stopping grounds. Not a good idea. Had cravings for about 3 hous after the drinks. Used mindfulness and the technique of watching my thoughts, urges, reactions. Told my fiancé what was happening and the urges subsided eventually. Haven't slept great in a long while, but I have accepted it and it's ok. What we resist persists. I work a 50+ hour job that I was not able to take off and that has been painfully enlightening.

When I had my urges, my fiancé asked how is that possible whm you said you feel better than ever just this morning. Here is how I explained. Since day 9 there has been a change in my state of consciousness. Life has a certain vitality to it. I study Buddhism and I can relate to what is called the "Suchness" or "is" ness of life The best is sitting on a park bench and seeing the greeness of the grass, freshness of the air, aliveness of everything around me that I am just a part of. It's awesome! Despite this new found awareness, my limbic system still shoots out chemicals that trigger memories of the "pleasurable" feelings from the opiates. However, what I mentioned above outweighs the urge to get a cheap empty thrill. Geez, I am ranting. anyways, I feel better than ever this morning and keep getting better each day-slowly but surely. To echo a lot of posters. Excerscise is Key! Also, eat fresh food, protein shakes with amino acids, l-tyrosine, multi-vitamine, potassium, magnesium and lots of water' juice and V8. I know I have a long road ahead still, but today I am grateful for what I have been through. We must find strength in pain and transcend. We can do this. We can be free. We can love and laugh and cry and sing once again!! Thank you!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Tear, there is no comparison. I felt like when I was on subs, even low doses, I was living in the shadows. I was surviving. I wasn't totally there. It was better than the whirlwind of being a pain killer addict but nothing like being clean. I'm coming up on 2 years off sub and these two years have been better than my 4 years on pain killers and 2 years on sub combined. I stop and reflect on the little things often. Walking my dogs after work for instance. Breathing fresh air, getting some sun...watcing the pups sniff around. I love it. On sub walking the dogs was a chore.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:28 pm 
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It is such a drastic change being off of subs it is unreal. It makes me kinda sick looking back realizing how I was not myself while on subs. I merely just existed. Yeah I didn't use, but my quality of life, zest for life, and being an active participant in life was pathetic and near non existent. Today I feel everything. Like you mentioned with your scuba diving Tear, I am a surfer and for the 14 months or so that I was on Subs, almost every surf sesh was just kinda blah. Whatever, just going through the motions kinda thing ya know? Today I get an unbelievable high after every session. I feel music more than ever. While I was on subs I didn't even listen to music. It annoyed me more than anything so I listened to talk radio instead. Being a musician myself, this was extremely frustrating and disturbing. I could go on and on about the negatives of being on subs. People argue that the disease of addiction is a life or death situation, which it is, but to me being on suboxone for me was like death. I was a shell of the person I am and am incredibly thankful to be off of it. Everyone is different and at different stages in their lives/addictions so I am not saying nobody should take it, but it is def not for me. I am 9 1/2 months of subs and it only gets better.. Oh yeah my sex drive is off the hook since jumping too. Nice little perk


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:50 pm 
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I am more content while abstaining. (Of course I like to get high.)
I just know I am a better person being OFF drugs. I think more clearly, I make better decisions, I have better self esteem, I treat my loved ones and myself with respect, I make more money, I spend my money where I should, and I am much much more thankful for all that I have....10 fold, being off subs.......


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Well I'll keep this short. I agree with what everyone's said here. I was on 8mg for 2 years and jumped off at 8mg.. Not pretty and I won't even get Into how bad of an idea that was. Today is day 26 sub free. Life couldn't be any more empowering. As everyone has said I was a shell of a person on subs. Never laughed never really enjoyed anything. Just existed.. This place has been a lifesaver. I am not cured quite yet but everyday is better then the last. No looking back from here. Wish everyone the best in there future bupe free.


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 Post subject: You guys give me hope!
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:51 am 
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God morning!
I am so, so glad to read these messages!
I have felt for such a long time that I was "not myself". My family, husband, many people tell me I am not myself since I have been on subs..you guys confirm this for me. This is my motivation to stop..I hate the thought of suffering through withdrawals but this is my carrot at the end of a stick!
I am down to 1.4 mgs., so anxious to start this new part of my life!
DW


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:03 pm 
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i should not be reading this thread". i'm far from coming off suboxone. and i hope you all keep your recovery for ever.
ya ;subs is a kind of fog of teaching to stay sober for ever. i guess i'm just not ever going to be ready for that.
your free from chains. don't let the open field rob you from your freedom. Good luck and be very strong on those
poss- bad days.

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Humor is one of the best qualities in life of intelligents breeze1.wmv utube untitled 26 (2) utube just me and my music


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:56 pm 
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Hey Betty,

Glad our experiences help you keep your focus. You're down under 2 mg's...The good news is you're way lower than a lot of people. The bad news is that every time you reduce now you'll feel it. Just keep trying to take a teeny bit less each week and know you're working towards getting your life back. Don't rush it...slow and steady wins the race...in my opinion anyway.

You will get off sub and get back to normal. That day will come. Keep using this time to get your mind right and preppare yourself for total sober living.

Happy Easter


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:47 pm 
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tearj3rker wrote:
Hey guys.

This has been a topic of interest in another active thread, and I find it interesting myself ... so I thought it deserved its own thread. And this forum was the perfect place for it. I do feel that talking about this too much can be harmful as well though, as some people on Sub may feel the urge to jump off before they're ready if they're made to feel like they're missing out too much on a quality of life.

From the point of view of those who WERE on Sub, and are now abstinent, how do you think the feeling of Sub compares with being opioid free? I remember Laddertipper talking about how life seemed more fulfilling / engaging now she was off buprenorphine. I can relate to this in some ways, as I felt more emotionally involved in life when I was doing the abstinence shuffle. Buprenorphine, and to a greater amount methadone, does create an emotional buffer for me. This was exactly why I loved opioids in the first place. They detached me from my life emotionally.

While I am much more in touch with myself and people around me ON sub than I was in addiction, it still does have that mild agonist effect.

I noticed this a lot when I was scuba diving at the start of the year. When I was clean, diving was a massive buzz for me. Dropping down 30ms on top of a reef shark got me pumped and I'd be on a high after every dive. When I dived this year on Sub, it did feel a bit like "meh ... moray eel ... cool ... whatever". It was less engaging. Same went for when I went cliff diving / rafting ... general adrenaliney things have felt a bit blunted.

While I did feel more in-on-the-action when I was off opioids, it had its negatives too. I felt life's ups and downs a lot more. And for someone with bipolar whos emotions can be overwheling at times, crying over a piano, sometimes I missed the relative obliviousness of opioids. And I DID actually crave buprenorphine, because I KNEW if I busted on buprenorphine my life wouldn't self-destruct within a couple of weeks. But in my city, heroin is a lot easier to find than Suboxone. And if you want Suboxone, you HAVE TO pick it up every day. Not every few weeks for a bit of a holiday.

One thing that Laddertipper said resonated with me a lot ... that her memories of her life on buprenorphine were a blur. Large periods of my life, especially those while I was in addiction or maintenance, are a blur for me while I'm abstinent. I know that if I stopped buprenorphine now, a lot of memories from my relationship and the things I've done while on it would deteriorate. I dunno if it's a state-dependent thing -memories we make on a drug are harder to recall when we're no longer on it?

I'm interested in how everyone's feeling now post-Sub ... what were the benefits of living on Sub compared to clean of opioids?



How do you stay clean with H so readily available? I am far from being off subs, not even going there-I know that if I stopped now, id crash and burn. I suppose I actually feel CLEARER on SUBS rather than shooting dope every day. I can't compare it to anything else, which is sad. One day, I may be able to compare clean life vs. sub life. Right now, I feel clear, grounded and in control.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:54 pm 
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I don't stay clean poppyroses. That's why I'm back on Sub.

Despite knowing how much more clarity I feel by being off Sub, I still know that at this stage of my recovery, going of sub ..would not be worth it.. It would be dangerous. The only way I would consider it would be if I had naltrexone.

I think we gotta weigh up the pro's and con's carefully with a decision like whether to go on Sub or stay on Sub, and the difference in how it feels should be taken into consideration.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:39 am 
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i can remember with "alcohol"when i stopped drinking" i went through a cloud nine for over a year and then "bang" what happen". i really thought my life was for ever well. no just a nice cloud nine for over 1 year. reality will come by and hit like a ton of rocks at any time.
my illness is not ready yet to live a normal life , like the so called normal person out there. i know we can not learn from the future'. but we are experienced from the passed and learn by that.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:08 pm 
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After spending my entire adult life addicted to one drug or another, the feeling of abstinence is wonderful.

Honestly, one of the best aspects of abstinence from opiates is not being so wickedly dependent on them anymore. I wake up in the morning and I'm not reaching for a pill bottle. I go to work and I don't have to wonder if someone is breaking into my house to steal my meds. I don't have to wonder if my doctor has all of a sudden skipped town. I don't have to stash pills away anymore. I can leave town at the drop of a hat and not think twice about "do I have enough meds." I can go to the movies or go out to eat and not have to worry that there's 50 miles between me and my pill bottle....and on and on and on. Being free of that dependence is beautiful.

Like others have said, now that I'm off Suboxone, I feel like I'm actually living again. It's like I was just going through the motions before. Life had almost become just a habit, life was something I did, instead of something I lived.

I'll always be thankful for Suboxone because without it, I wouldn't be enjoying this abstinent life, I'd probably be out looking for drugs right now if it weren't for Suboxone, but I sure am glad I'm off of it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:01 am 
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sounds so good ya all'. but i'm still here at 22mg and trying to go down . i feel like i can cut down to 12mg in 2 weeks with not to much problem. deep down" i really would like to be where your all at :)

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Humor is one of the best qualities in life of intelligents breeze1.wmv utube untitled 26 (2) utube just me and my music


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:36 pm 
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I wouldn't rush it johnboy. Being stable on Sub is lightyears ahead of being relapsed.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:35 am 
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Couldn't agree more with all the stated sentiment from people who have come off. While I am still on sub I am down to 0.35mg right now and slowly feeling so much more alive as I continue to tapper. Coming down from 5 years of sub use (most of it around 6-4mgs) the past 6 months of tapering has shown me how much of a fog mentally and emotionally I was in. Hard to explain; just feel genuine happiness and excitement again and so much more mentally together and capable.

A very strange side effect is my sense of taste and smell seems to have returned after being VERY dull and lackluster for the past 5 years. Strangely 'Hyposmia' or the loss smell is a reported side effect of opiates listed in 'Adams and Victors principles of neurology'. I am fond of aromatics so imagine the excitement of rediscovering the depth of smell you should normally have. Not to mention I feel more discerning with food and dont see my self loading up my meals with salt and other as dominating flavors as I was.. Its amazing I am so happy to be tapering off.

Another huge plus is I feel I am getting SUCH better sleep now. I used to get 8 hours of sleep a night but still wake up feeling unrested and drained threw out the day even with a good diet and exercise. The past 6 months I feel so much more rejuvenated and ready for the day in the morning its a huge sea change for me. Oddly at such small doses if I take even 0.05 within 8-10 hours of going to bed I feel it messes with my sleep cycle. Anyone else feel they had an improvement of sleep restfulness after WD's and PAW's subsided or even just tapering?

Suboxone has been a great tool and I am thankful its around. For me though after years of work on my self I feel I am ready to come off as tapering has done nothing but improved my quality of life.


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