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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:54 pm 
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Well I am at the end of my day of day one of many days ahead. I split up 1 film in half took the first half around 10:30am and the last half at 5:30ish. I made sure I was at a 15 in the withdrawal scale my dr gave me. I think one of my problems a few months ago is I took the subs to early in my recovery I was not in any withdrawal at that time. Once I took it about 15-20 mins later I was feeling better. I didn't have a lot of the reactions that I am having right now. I really only had the itchies lol. Kinda reminded me how I use to itch being on Hydros.
I feel very weird at this time. The only way I could describe it would be if I was drunk I guess. My pupils were very small, head was light and somewhat fuzzy feeling.And I'm starting feeling nausea. As I am typing this I am nodding in and out. I know there are side effects but not sure if I should be feeling all this.
I didn't think my dose was to high but maybe it is, should I just be taking half a day? I just wish it was easier and it was black and white on how to exactly take this stuff :)
Any suggestions from anyone? Thank you in advance.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:04 am 
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It seems like you are mildly overdosed. Not to worry, you'll be fine (might vomit a little over the next few days) but you do need to explain to your doctor that you felt strong effects and nausea. I think you'll probably need to reduce your dose by a fair bit.

In the meantime, I'd probably not take any more until you start to feel withdrawals setting in - bupe's halflife will outlive your daily dosing and will soon-enough have accumulated a huge amount in your system; so you may need to abstain from dosing for 2-3 days. So yes, better to stop taking the bupe until you feel yourself level back down to baseline. :)

How much sub are you taking? How severe was your opiate addiction before the sub?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:05 pm 
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Yeah, definitely sounds like your dose is too high.

I would try 4mg tomorrow and see how that goes.

Q

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:00 pm 
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Thank u both for the replys. Today I felt ok I did have a migraine for most of the day but some what energized as if I was on pills. I ended my journey of pills w 6-7 tramadols. I was taking hydros at 5-6 a day. Ive been on subs before but wasnt serious about stopping. Like I mentioned im done w the race and what kind of craziness its doing and done to my body. The dr prescribed 2 films a day. But yesterday I only took 1 and had a hell of a time. So ive elected to wait and see if or when I do have withdrawl to start the subs again. Im looking forward to my meeting w my councilor on tuesday. Thanks again


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:25 am 
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Sub-Off...I understand that you are having a hard time with your taper and jump from suboxone right now and you have some anger and bad feelings about the time you spent in treatment. However, you need to remember the FEW rules we have here. I think you are getting dangerously close to crossing the line in this post.

* This forum is for people who have made their choice whether it be for Suboxone, for Methadone, or for meetings and no medication. While I recognize that some readers are not yet at the end of that choosing process, I ask that they read the information and make their decision without encouraging debate on the forum.

*PLEASE Do not get into debating which is better-- such debates never change minds, and often introduce false information that clouds intelligent decision-making.

*Show the respect for the decisions of others and avoid personal attacks.

Take a step back and think about how you can present your OPINION without crossing these lines.

Thanks,

Qhorsegal2

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Sorry Q, I deleted his last edit so your post appears to be talking to no one. Delete it if you want. He just had more of his rantings.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 8:56 am 
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I disagree, I think it is important to be able to have constructive discussions about important issues such as these, which deeply affect a person's life. I'm offering what I genuinely see as helpful advice based on my experience with sub and SAOs; withdrawals, maintenance and detox. I have a right to express my opinion so long as it is not inciting hatred or violence towards other people (which I most certainly am not and would never do) - this is what we call free speech. It's unfortunate that you feel very strongly against what I have to say, but that doesn't give you the right to act as a dictator as to what opinions can and can't be expressed. You're an online moderator, and are supposed to make sure discussions are kept on topic and no insults/rude language gets used. You are trying to suppress someone's right to share their beliefs and opinions because you don't like them. That is not the right way to go about using your "power" as a moderator.

I would genuinely like to have a discussion with the OP about their situation - if you want to challenge me on points you disagree with you are encouraged to do so, thanks.

I am also doing well with my sub detox, almost at a month off and seeing improvements.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:41 am 
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Whoa there Sub Off! You are waaaay out of line in my opinion. QHorsegal is only using here status as Moderator for the entire good of the forum and nothing more I assure you. You telling someone, ANYONE, NOT to use Suboxone is NOT your decision to be making here. If a person decides that's what's best for THEMSELVES then so be it and it's THEIR choice to make, definitely not yours!

And telling someone to take a weeks supply of Valium, Clonidine, and possibly a sleep aid - Mirtazapine, it's absolutely crazy! You are doing no more than playing "doctor" in my opinion. You don't know this persons medical history and suggesting these meds could kill them if their condition happens to go against the taking of any of these drugs.

I'm NOT trying to start any kind of arguments or piss anyone off either. I would only SUGGEST everyone be more careful when offering up any kind of advice that could possibly have lethal consequences, or go against the wishes of the person involved. Their life, their decisions to make!

Karen


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:10 am 
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Sub Off! wrote:
. . . You will have to battle with cravings though, which may be tough - the only positive to sub is that it does seem to eradicate cravings . . .


Such a teeny little reference hidden in the middle of the text, but such a major part of this whole addiction problem don't you think?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:19 am 
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Sub Off! wrote:
I disagree, I think it is important to be able to have constructive discussions about important issues such as these, which deeply affect a person's life. I'm offering what I genuinely see as helpful advice based on my experience with sub and SAOs; withdrawals, maintenance and detox. I have a right to express my opinion so long as it is not inciting hatred or violence towards other people (which I most certainly am not and would never do) - this is what we call free speech. It's unfortunate that you feel very strongly against what I have to say, but that doesn't give you the right to act as a dictator as to what opinions can and can't be expressed. You're an online moderator, and are supposed to make sure discussions are kept on topic and no insults/rude language gets used. You are trying to suppress someone's right to share their beliefs and opinions because you don't like them. That is not the right way to go about using your "power" as a moderator.

I would genuinely like to have a discussion with the OP about their situation - if you want to challenge me on points you disagree with you are encouraged to do so, thanks.

I am also doing well with my sub detox, almost at a month off and seeing improvements.



Hey young pup! When one of our mods instructs that you remember to follow our rules, you need to give the instruction more than a passing glance. And you certainly need to refrain from telling her what her job is! She knows her job.

You are arguing that the OP should use suboxone for detox only, not for maintenance. That is the definition of debating which way is better. You are also making unsubstantiated claims based on your limited experience. For example, "Honestly, you are being misprescribed sub." That is your opinion, not a fact. Couple that with the fact that the OP didn't ask for your opinion about being on sub, how long to stay on sub, etc, and you are totally crossing boundaries that are not tolerated on this forum.

I don't care how politely you want to debate. Debating which is better is against the rules here. If you want to bring your opinions up about sub maintenance, do it in the Freestyle section, because it is totally inappropriate in this thread. Just like it's totally inappropriate to condescendingly give instructions to qhorsegal.

This your first official warning. If you want to share your opinion about who should be on sub and when, take it to Freestyle. In other words, there is a time and there is a place. Sometimes young adults are unaware of what is or isn't appropriate. Luckily, you have elders here to offer you some guidance. I hope that your decision making on this forum improves. :)

Amy

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:21 am 
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That is the main reason why I take Suboxone is to "eradicate cravings"

Once you get clean there are going to be cravings, I would know because I have done this once before and I was only able to hold out for 18months. After that, I could no longer ignore the cravings. Suboxone wipes them out almost 100%.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:36 am 
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Sub-Off,

I have been very respectful to you and your opinions on this forum. I have disagreed with ALOT of what you have said, but up intil now you haven't crossed the line of stating your own opinions as fact, and telling someone who had decided to treat their addiction with suboxone that they are crazy for doing so.

Since you asked :roll: , one of my jobs on this forum is to make sure that people DO NOT BREAK OUR RULES. If you would like a site that has no rules, I hear sub-sux is pretty loose. I'm sure they would appreciate your ideas there. If you would like to stay here, then you will obey the rules. Pretty simple...

I don't have a problem with you personally, and as long as you behave respectfully from here on out, it will stay that way.

Now, lets turn this post back over to the OP.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:13 pm 
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Content deleted by Rule62.


Last edited by Sub Off! on Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:20 pm 
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raudy1975 wrote:
That is the main reason why I take Suboxone is to "eradicate cravings"

Once you get clean there are going to be cravings, I would know because I have done this once before and I was only able to hold out for 18months. After that, I could no longer ignore the cravings. Suboxone wipes them out almost 100%.



Cravings are a huge problem in addiction, and yes sub tackles that side of things amazingly well; however, there isn't much use in eradicating cravings if you are going to drastically increase your physical dependence and longevity of withdrawal pain - those two are also factors which contribute to someone not staying clean. So, it's really about what is appropriate, and as someone who had a morphine habit before sub, I can safely comment on a hydro habit perhaps not being an appropriate starting block for sub use... Sub is misprescribed, you surely can see that is possible? There are many reasons why pharma would like people on sub instead of cheaper opiates or street opiates. We have to realise that healthcare is not just about "health and care", it's also about "money" and "politics".


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:57 pm 
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Sub Off said, "And I have always been respectful, I try hard to be curtious and empathetic - it is definitely something I pride myself on in real life, and that carries over to my online life perfectly well."

If that's the case, then why do you think several people have been getting on your case in various threads? Let me guess, it's all us, not you? LOL.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:00 pm 
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Highlight how I have been disrespectful and I will take heed. Otherwise it seems like the regulars ganging up on the new guy because he is gung ho for bringing tough questions to the table.


Last edited by Sub Off! on Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Brown Eyed Girl wrote:
Whoa there Sub Off! You are waaaay out of line in my opinion. QHorsegal is only using here status as Moderator for the entire good of the forum and nothing more I assure you.You telling someone, ANYONE, NOT to use Suboxone is NOT your decision to be making here. If a person decides that's what's best for THEMSELVES then so be it and it's THEIR choice to make, definitely not yours!

And telling someone to take a weeks supply of Valium, Clonidine, and possibly a sleep aid - Mirtazapine, it's absolutely crazy! You are doing no more than playing "doctor" in my opinion. You don't know this persons medical history and suggesting these meds could kill them if their condition happens to go against the taking of any of these drugs.

I'm NOT trying to start any kind of arguments or piss anyone off either. I would only SUGGEST everyone be more careful when offering up any kind of advice that could possibly have lethal consequences, or go against the wishes of the person involved. Their life, their decisions to make!

Karen


Hi Karen, thanks for your input. I think you may be a little confused as to what I actually said in the post - if you check I didn't do anything other than offer advice based on experience. It is up to the OP to do with that advice as he/she will. It's good that you want to be protective and I think you're a good person so I won't engage in debate with you as you said you don't wish to start an argument.

Cheers.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:31 pm 
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If I have to highlight how you've been disrespectful, then you're beyond help.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:41 pm 
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Hi im brand new and have similar stories to all..started on prescription opiates legally without a clue and here i am five years later in a detox center where they really do recommend the suboxone ...i am just looking for honest answers , of course i want to be 100% abstinent but as alot of us know a certain switch gets turned on or off or something ...no matter how many times i cold turkey i always find myself back and taking more than before ..sometimes even making it a month or so and even feeling good ...My question is as i have just been induced at 4 mg starting last night at 8 / 4 mg at 2 am / 4 mg at 6 am and 4 mg at 1130 and now 4 mg at 530 and i still feel like crap ...should i not feel better by now ?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:50 pm 
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Romeo wrote:
If I have to highlight how you've been disrespectful, then you're beyond help.
That sounds decidedly like a cop out mate. If you're going to make short and direct statements about me, you should be able to easily back them up. Otherwise what are you talking about?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:57 pm 
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Sub-off, you asked for quotes...here's a quote.

Sub Off! wrote:
So, it's really about what is appropriate, and as someone who had a morphine habit before sub, I can safely comment on a hydro habit perhaps not being an appropriate starting block for sub use... Sub is misprescribed, you surely can see that is possible? There are many reasons why pharma would like people on sub instead of cheaper opiates or street opiates. We have to realise that healthcare is not just about "health and care", it's also about "money" and "politics".


Who are you to judge which people "qualify" for suboxone treatment and which one's don't? You think because you were on morphine, and some of us used sub to get off of hydrocodone you are more qualified to make that JUDGEMENT?

Here's another quote for you...from The LA Times.

hydrocodone -- better known to most people for the painkilling role it plays in brand name drugs such as Vicodin and Norco -- is commonly deemed to be about one-sixth as potent as morphine, when it is in fact about equally strong.

Second, users of hydrocodone in the United States rather astoundingly account for about 99 percent of all hydrocodone consumption across the globe.

Those two interrelated factors -- underestimation of potency and overconsumption -- make for an ominous recipe marked by mass addiction and, far too often, death.

Consider Southern California alone, where an estimated 3,700-plus fatalities caused by prescription drugs, often hydrocodone, occurred from 2006 to 2011. Drug-related deaths have now passed motor vehicle fatalities as the number one cause of accidental fatalities in the country.
Notably, many of those deaths occurred from use of a drug prescribed by a doctor. In some instances, select physicians have prescribed drugs to several patients who later died. In fact, several California doctors have had more than a dozen patients die from narcotic prescription medicines.
That is most patently a problem, whether it relates to medication error, negligence or outright medical malpractice.

Congress seeks to do something about it, with a recently introduced bill providing for more stringent control over hydrocodone prescriptions and refills, along with tighter procedures on pharmacies.
Legislation is necessary, says PROP president Andrew Kolodny, "to bring the epidemic of opioid addiction and overdose deaths under control."


Attitudes like yours are a contributing factor in the epidemic of Hydrocodone related deaths. Like it or not, there are MANY people in this world who have had their lives ruined by an addiction to this drug...and many other opiate painkillers.

Are you suggesting we tell a hydrocodone addict that the drug they are using, that has ruined their lives, isn't strong enough to warrant getting help from suboxone? That it doesn't matter that they have tried to quit so many times they have lost count...they just need to suck it up and get over it?

What would you say to the thousands of people in this world who have lost loved ones because of hydrocodone overdose or hydrocodone related health issues like acute liver toxicity? Would you like to tell them that the addiction their loved one died from wasn't serious enough to warrant use of suboxone, a medication which could have saved their lives?


The statements quoted above are in direct violation of our rules. You have already received one warning today. If I see any further comments like these you will receive your second warning for the day. Any guess what comes next?

If you value your membership here, I would seriously reconsider your current attitude.

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