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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:03 pm 
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qhorsegal2 wrote:
Sub-off, you asked for quotes...here's a quote.

Sub Off! wrote:
So, it's really about what is appropriate, and as someone who had a morphine habit before sub, I can safely comment on a hydro habit perhaps not being an appropriate starting block for sub use... Sub is misprescribed, you surely can see that is possible? There are many reasons why pharma would like people on sub instead of cheaper opiates or street opiates. We have to realise that healthcare is not just about "health and care", it's also about "money" and "politics".


Who are you to judge which people "qualify" for suboxone treatment and which one's don't? You think because you were on morphine, and some of us used sub to get off of hydrocodone you are more qualified to make that JUDGEMENT?

Here's another quote for you...from The LA Times.

hydrocodone -- better known to most people for the painkilling role it plays in brand name drugs such as Vicodin and Norco -- is commonly deemed to be about one-sixth as potent as morphine, when it is in fact about equally strong.

Second, users of hydrocodone in the United States rather astoundingly account for about 99 percent of all hydrocodone consumption across the globe.

Those two interrelated factors -- underestimation of potency and overconsumption -- make for an ominous recipe marked by mass addiction and, far too often, death.

Consider Southern California alone, where an estimated 3,700-plus fatalities caused by prescription drugs, often hydrocodone, occurred from 2006 to 2011. Drug-related deaths have now passed motor vehicle fatalities as the number one cause of accidental fatalities in the country.
Notably, many of those deaths occurred from use of a drug prescribed by a doctor. In some instances, select physicians have prescribed drugs to several patients who later died. In fact, several California doctors have had more than a dozen patients die from narcotic prescription medicines.
That is most patently a problem, whether it relates to medication error, negligence or outright medical malpractice.

Congress seeks to do something about it, with a recently introduced bill providing for more stringent control over hydrocodone prescriptions and refills, along with tighter procedures on pharmacies.
Legislation is necessary, says PROP president Andrew Kolodny, "to bring the epidemic of opioid addiction and overdose deaths under control."


Attitudes like yours are a contributing factor in the epidemic of Hydrocodone related deaths. Like it or not, there are MANY people in this world who have had their lives ruined by an addiction to this drug...and many other opiate painkillers.

Are you suggesting we tell a hydrocodone addict that the drug they are using, that has ruined their lives, isn't strong enough to warrant getting help from suboxone? That it doesn't matter that they have tried to quit so many times they have lost count...they just need to suck it up and get over it?

What would you say to the thousands of people in this world who have lost loved ones because of hydrocodone overdose or hydrocodone related health issues like acute liver toxicity? Would you like to tell them that the addiction their loved one died from wasn't serious enough to warrant use of suboxone, a medication which could have saved their lives?


The statements quoted above are in direct violation of our rules. You have already received one warning today. If I see any further comments like these you will receive your second warning for the day. Any guess what comes next?


If you value your membership here, I would seriously reconsider your current attitude.


The whole reason I mentioned I was a morphine addict is because I stated morphine is the same potency as hydrocodone orally. Therefore I am almost exactly qualified to give an opinion based on the OPs situation. An opinion/advice - I'm not putting a gun to their head and demanding they stop sub - they can make their own mind up, but I'll still present my opinion with passion because that's the kind of person I am - passionate. You'd be able to see that I compared oral morphine to oral hydrocodone if rule62 hadn't have deleted my post. So no, I'm not trying to suggest morphine is stronger.

I have received a warning and I feel on fire baby! Woooo!


Last edited by Sub Off! on Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:04 pm 
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Sub Off! wrote:
Cravings are a huge problem in addiction, and yes sub tackles that side of things amazingly well; however, there isn't much use in eradicating cravings if you are going to drastically increase your physical dependence and longevity of withdrawal pain - those two are also factors which contribute to someone not staying clean. So, it's really about what is appropriate, and as someone who had a morphine habit before sub, I can safely comment on a hydro habit perhaps not being an appropriate starting block for sub use... Sub is misprescribed, you surely can see that is possible? There are many reasons why pharma would like people on sub instead of cheaper opiates or street opiates. We have to realise that healthcare is not just about "health and care", it's also about "money" and "politics".


I started out taking a vic, norco or perc here and there for kicks. Then I needed one daily. Then it was 5-6 a day. Then I worried about all the acetaminophen and heard about oxycontin. At first I took 40s. Then I needed the 80s. Pretty soon the 80s weren't doing anything for me and I found smoking heroin to be better. Then I discovered that shooting it was much more efficient. When I didn't have heroin, I'd drop 3 80s in a spoon, after removing the time release coating. I would flip flop depending on what I could get between the H and 3 80s in a single dose. My neighbor who was a nurse (and addict) would keep vials of morphine on hand for emergencies and when I'd need it, it would barely make a dent in my sickness. Anyway, wonder what would have happened if I was smart enough to try sub back when I was taking just 5-6 pills a day? Who knows.. maybe I wouldn't have all the scars on my arms and in my life.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:10 pm 
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tinydancer wrote:
Sub Off! wrote:
Cravings are a huge problem in addiction, and yes sub tackles that side of things amazingly well; however, there isn't much use in eradicating cravings if you are going to drastically increase your physical dependence and longevity of withdrawal pain - those two are also factors which contribute to someone not staying clean. So, it's really about what is appropriate, and as someone who had a morphine habit before sub, I can safely comment on a hydro habit perhaps not being an appropriate starting block for sub use... Sub is misprescribed, you surely can see that is possible? There are many reasons why pharma would like people on sub instead of cheaper opiates or street opiates. We have to realise that healthcare is not just about "health and care", it's also about "money" and "politics".


I started out taking a vic, norco or perc here and there for kicks. Then I needed one daily. Then it was 5-6 a day. Then I worried about all the acetaminophen and heard about oxycontin. At first I took 40s. Then I needed the 80s. Pretty soon the 80s weren't doing anything for me and I found smoking heroin to be better. Then I discovered that shooting it was much more efficient. When I didn't have heroin, I'd drop 3 80s in a spoon, after removing the time release coating. I would flip flop depending on what I could get between the H and 3 80s in a single dose. My neighbor who was a nurse (and addict) would keep vials of morphine on hand for emergencies and when I'd need it, it would barely make a dent in my sickness. Anyway, wonder what would have happened if I was smart enough to try sub back when I was taking just 5-6 pills a day? Who knows.. maybe I wouldn't have all the scars on my arms and in my life.


Well, getting to the stage where you are injecting heroin is probably not the best decision you've made, but who knows, maybe sub would have helped, but maybe some non-opioid treatment, such as trying hard to enjoy life i.e. having good sex with amazing people, or travelling, writing, reading great novels, or taking up a hobby, or finding a new job, just continually trying until you find satisfaction that takes work and isn't instant from a shot in the vein. I know I'm trying to enjoy life by learning a language and dating women rather than choosing to jump to heroin.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:25 pm 
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I need to know where the man is whose sex is so good it cures me of addiction! It's got to be somewhere in Brazil right?

I kid (but not really . . find him!)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:26 pm 
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I've traveled the world
I moved to a beautiful island in an effort to change my life
I had amazing sex (both on & off drugs)
I've always had hobbies
I've always had a variety of jobs

None of this ever filled the hole. Perhaps you're not an addict? And if not, which is entirely possibly by the way, you don't have any business comparing notes to those that are?

"such as trying hard to enjoy life" --- That's a good one. You are a piece of work, you know that. At the very least you're amusing because it's becoming clear that you actually believe what you're saying wholeheartedly. I forgive your crazy rantings when you can make me laugh, even if it's unintentionally.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:27 pm 
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Minnie wrote:
I need to know where the man is whose sex is so good it cures me of addiction! It's got to be somewhere in Brazil right?

I kid (but not really . . find him!)



Brazil would be a good place to start, my friend :D Italy too. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:28 pm 
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Too sexy for Milan

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:32 pm 
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This hot dude from Barcelona will do. He looks legal.


(mods, feel free to clean up my posts.. lol. I feel bad for OP.)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:26 pm 
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Okay guys,

Sub-Off has been banned. I'm happy he decided to bow out gracefully.................NOT!

Back to regularly scheduled programming. :D

Relivinglife - I am terribly sorry that your thread was hijacked. How are you doing today?

Qhorsegal2

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:01 am 
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Wow!!! I am sorry that my crazy day lead to such a mess lol.. But did sound like guy had a lot more issues that he needed to deal with rather than trying to help with mine.. Hopefully he finds the helps he needs.
I am better tonight. I have had a migraine for 2 days. Migraines are normal for me so I can't say if it was from being on the subs or my body trying to get off of them. I did get quite sick last night and this morning but then again not sure if it was the migraine or because of the slight OD or both. I ended up splitting the film in 4 pieces and taking one of those pieces today around 2. I did feel a little ease in my headache so about 2 hours later I took the 2nd small piece. Its almost midnight now and I feel sooooo much better.
I can say I haven't craved any of those lovely meds that I like to run to when times get rough. I was even offered by someone who had no idea what I am going through and I said NO for the very first time.. Damn that feels great!! I just gotta keep looking forward.
Yes I realize my ending meds is not high for some others that are on here. I was taking much more than that but actually got myself down to that amount but could not go any further without wanting to up them more. So I am hoping that this dose that I have now will work.
Thanks for all for everything so far.. love to all.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:02 am 
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tinydancer wrote:
This hot dude from Barcelona will do. He looks legal.


(mods, feel free to clean up my posts.. lol. I feel bad for OP.)



OK goodness HELLO THERE SIR>>> Nice pic :) Please do not clean up this post at least it gives us something to look at ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:16 am 
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relivinglife wrote:
tinydancer wrote:
This hot dude from Barcelona will do. He looks legal.


(mods, feel free to clean up my posts.. lol. I feel bad for OP.)


I agree! Please leave up CK hottie. It's what the OP insists ;)


OK goodness HELLO THERE SIR>>> Nice pic :) Please do not clean up this post at least it gives us something to look at ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Well, I'm sure not going to delete him!

Good morning Mr. Sexy....rrrrarrrr!

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:12 pm 
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I like how my post started w some craziness but ended with hotness!!! :)


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:32 pm 
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TinyDancer, how did you get that picture of me?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:49 pm 
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Romeo wrote:
TinyDancer, how did you get that picture of me?


What-EVER!!!!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:21 pm 
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Sure wish that lovely man would stop by again and give us some encouragement lol


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:40 pm 
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^ Reliving-

How are you doing? Have you mellowed out on that dose? Did you drop it a bit? Hope you're feeling better.

You know, once I was traveling from Genoa to Rome, and an entire Italian Futbol team was on the plane. The whole plane consisted of basically my family, and this Italian soccer team. They must have been flying home from a game because several of the guys had fresh wounds patched up. I was trying to read but I ended up studying the guys for the whole flight. They were SO big, I didn't expect it. You see them on TV and they look normal, but holy crap, these guys were like statues. And their faces.. their beautiful faces. :oops:

Sigh.. sorry, something about this conversation reminded me of that amazing flight. I was next to my husband the whole time but I remember thinking "if this flight goes down, I will die complete." LOL


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:04 pm 
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Hello Tiny thank you for asking. Yes I think I have my dose under control now. My lower back is hurting but not sure if it has anything to do with anything. I have my first appt w my therapist tomorrow. Excited but nervous about it. Im usually the one friends come to w problems or need advice now its my turn.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:45 pm 
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Hey reliving, glad to hear you're feeling better!!

Like you, I had lower back issues while on Suboxone, but I honestly don't know if the two are related? I noticed mine was the worst on the weekends if I spent a decent amount of time in my Lazy-Boy. Now that I'm off Suboxone, I don't notice it anymore, but I also tend to not spend quite as much time lounging around......most days. :D

Good luck with your therapist tomorrow.

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