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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 am 
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Hi Everyone,

I’ve been addicted to hydrocodone for several years, using pretty heavily for the past few years, as much as 1,000 mg per day, but on average about 600-800 mg per day. I resolved to get clean a month or so ago, and wanted to use the rapid detox method under heavy sedation. Alas, long story short, this option isn’t available right now. But I’m totally fed up with Vicodin controlling my life and need to do something.

Initially, I was dead set against using Suboxone as part of my addiction treatment – I didn’t want to substitute one opiate for another. That didn’t make sense to me. But now it may be the only way I can start recovery, and your stories have been very helpful, inspiring and illuminating about the benefits of using Suboxone. However, I do worry about getting physically addicted to Suboxone and the withdrawal problems that creates. I guess when you deal with the devil of drug addiction, there are no easy outs.

My situation is a bit complicated, in that I’m getting a divorce and have a (soon to be ex) spouse who will do absolutely nothing to support me. But because of child custody issues, I have to live in the same house with her until the divorce is final, which may take at least 8 months. In essence, as I go through treatment, for a variety of reasons which I won’t get into, I will have practically zero support from friends or family. This concerns me greatly because I understand that support plays such a critical role in addiction recovery.

The other complication is that the chronic (i.e., for many years now) lack of even a shred of emotional support, compassion, or understanding from my spouse has caused pretty severe depression, which I also need to get treated for.

So I’m pretty terrified of starting my journey, of getting sober (well, sort of, if I use Sub) and starting to truly feel all the pain of the divorce, etc., and of relapsing due to depression or the lack of support. It’s flat-out scary.

I see the outpouring of support from you on this forum, and my hope is that maybe this forum can be a source of support for me. The bottom line is that I feel very alone right now in moving forward.

Question: it would be great to hear from anyone who has taken sub and also anti-depressants to treat depression, to hear how that has worked out. Originally, my therapist told me that I needed to kick the physical addiction before my depression could truly be effectively addressed with anti-depressants, the idea being that the depression was a huge trigger for the addiction. Anyway, hope that question makes sense.

I chose SometimeIdiot as my handle ‘cause when I look at some of the decisions I’ve made over the years and the damage I did to my marriage, I feel like a complete idiot and loser. But if my handle was CompleteIdiot, then perhaps nobody would take me seriously here! LOL

Thank you kindly for reading.

SI


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:51 am 
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SometimeIdiot wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I’ve been addicted to hydrocodone for several years, using pretty heavily for the past few years, as much as 1,000 mg per day, but on average about 600-800 mg per day. I resolved to get clean a month or so ago, and wanted to use the rapid detox method under heavy sedation. Alas, long story short, this option isn’t available right now. But I’m totally fed up with Vicodin controlling my life and need to do something.

Initially, I was dead set against using Suboxone as part of my addiction treatment – I didn’t want to substitute one opiate for another. That didn’t make sense to me. But now it may be the only way I can start recovery, and your stories have been very helpful, inspiring and illuminating about the benefits of using Suboxone. However, I do worry about getting physically addicted to Suboxone and the withdrawal problems that creates. I guess when you deal with the devil of drug addiction, there are no easy outs.

My situation is a bit complicated, in that I’m getting a divorce and have a (soon to be ex) spouse who will do absolutely nothing to support me. But because of child custody issues, I have to live in the same house with her until the divorce is final, which may take at least 8 months. In essence, as I go through treatment, for a variety of reasons which I won’t get into, I will have practically zero support from friends or family. This concerns me greatly because I understand that support plays such a critical role in addiction recovery.

The other complication is that the chronic (i.e., for many years now) lack of even a shred of emotional support, compassion, or understanding from my spouse has caused pretty severe depression, which I also need to get treated for.

So I’m pretty terrified of starting my journey, of getting sober (well, sort of, if I use Sub) and starting to truly feel all the pain of the divorce, etc., and of relapsing due to depression or the lack of support. It’s flat-out scary.

I see the outpouring of support from you on this forum, and my hope is that maybe this forum can be a source of support for me. The bottom line is that I feel very alone right now in moving forward.

Question: it would be great to hear from anyone who has taken sub and also anti-depressants to treat depression, to hear how that has worked out. Originally, my therapist told me that I needed to kick the physical addiction before my depression could truly be effectively addressed with anti-depressants, the idea being that the depression was a huge trigger for the addiction. Anyway, hope that question makes sense.

I chose SometimeIdiot as my handle ‘cause when I look at some of the decisions I’ve made over the years and the damage I did to my marriage, I feel like a complete idiot and loser. But if my handle was CompleteIdiot, then perhaps nobody would take me seriously here! LOL

Thank you kindly for reading.

SI





DEAR SOMETIMEIDIOT,
Hi..and welcome to the forum! I am sorry you are having so much trouble right now with personal problems, but I agree that you must fix yourself before you can fix anything else.

I have never felt like I was trading one drug for another with subutex. I just knew that it was a drug (even though an opiate) that made me not want hydrocodone anymore..and for me that was a miracle. I had been on vicodin, norcos, lortab, etc. for 29 years and at the last was taking 20-30 plus pills a day. It sound like you were taking much more than that, but I could never find enough pills or I would have been right there with you.

I had to sneak off and get my pills, doctor shop...etc...because I did not have a dealer or know how to get one.
I am married to a wonderful man for 41 years with two grown, great kids...frankly I don't know how the husband has stayed with me. I have put him through absolute hell. I have been to AA for 20 yrs...didn't work cause I didn't try...been to 5 treatment centers...also didn't work cause I did not try...counselors, psychiatrists, everything and nothing would work. Then a girlfriend told me about suboxone (bupnorphine) and I decided to try.

I had also reached a point where my marriage was really in trouble, and I just could not get enough pills by lying and cheating to get the money...

My induction at the subDr. was the best move I have ever made...of course I was nervous, thinking nothing could replace my pill addiction...I only had to stop taking my vicodin 12 hrs before induction. They explained the drug to me put a half of an 8mg. under my tongue and told me to go outside and walk around, smoke, back this time i oould feel the "high" from the drug..the only time I ever felt any highlll but this drug make me feel normal. This drug also does not let you get addictied..if you take more than prescribed it does nothing.

So good luck to you and let us know how your are doing.\
Sincerely,
Slipper

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:37 pm 
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welcome and it's good you decided to reach out even if it is just a forum for sub.. it can be very helpful with support and answers. I am very sorry to hear about the lack of support and the divorce. I know you have to tackle one thing emotionally at a time this may be a beginning of new wonderful journey for you even if it doesn't seem that way yet.. of course how things play out depend on you ... I wouldn't doom yourself yet by thinking if you get too depressed you will relapse, as for using suboxone a lot of people have reservations about it initially due to the opiate for and opiate perspective. Suboxone has worked well for me so far. I was eating percocet 10's after a car accident, 3 months later got pregnant did not take any pills then but got back on pills after my son was born due to my back problems, i didnt just go back to taking a bunch a day after he was born of course you work your way up over the months and i was taking way more than i needed and when i would run out of my script get withdrawls , finally in jan i had withdrawl so bad i had my mom keep my baby overnight so i could try and rest. It was the look on his face when i left that did it. I never ever wanted to be away from my son because i was sick from a drug. i started sub 2 days later. it got rid of all my symptoms and cravings, I was living a "normal" life while on perc. i had a home a new baby full time job a boyfriend and here i was abusing meds. I wanted so badly to just get clean without any help but it was much harder than i thought so i chose sub.
it does take away the hardest part of opiate dependency so you can work on getting whatever else you need fixed, whether its addictive behavior , the reasons for your usage ect. Of course it 's a big decision because the med is a bit of a commitment and you will have to taper off of it. I am currently taking zoloft with my sub for anxity and depression and it does seem to help. I also take something else for anxiety which helps me a ton because sub made my panic worse. With me now i feel no buzz or anything off sub just as i did before i decided to start taking pills. I know this is long sorry i wanted to answer some questions the best i could , i have only been on sub for 2 months, you will find people on here very educated about this med and very willing to answer questions, the moderators are awesome and people for the most part are supportive, each story is different , but most of us are here for a common cause.. i wanted to ask did you find a doc yet? when are you planning on starting? other than what you wrote is there anything else about sub you are concerned about?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:27 pm 
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Ladies (i.e., slipper and honeybee415),

Thanks so much for your thoughtful and supportive posts. I am very grateful.

slipper, it sounds like you’ve been very fortunate with your husband. He must love you very much, or be eligible soon for sainthood! LOL I wish I had that from my (ex) spouse. Her support and love would mean the world to me, but it ain’t gonna happen and it’s out of my hands for something to control. So be it. I can’t let it stop me from doing what I know must be done.

honeybee, kicking my habit is, like you say, the start of a new wonderful journey. It’s just scary, to face sobriety after all these years, and to know that I’ll be feeling all the pain of the divorce and my poor decisions in full force and effect. But gotta face the music, I guess. Thank you for your input about dealing with depression while using sub. I appreciate that. To answer your questions, no I haven’t found a doctor yet, but I have a list of two dozen in the area who will treat with sub. I plan to spend tomorrow calling around to try to find the right doctor with the right “fit” for me. Everyone’s different, but for me, I want to find a doctor who wants to treat me with sub with the idea that I will eventually not need it, i.e., I don’t want to be using sub for the rest of my life. As far as when I plan to start, as soon as I can find the right doctor! ASAP! I’m sick and tired of my current life and feel ready to change, however terrifying that may be. I want to get back to the person I was. I want my wife and family back as a single healthy unit. That may not ultimately happen, but it’s my hope, and I do know that there is absolutely NO chance of that happening unless and until I get my own life in order. So baby steps and first things first.

Again, thank you so much for your responses and support. Means a lot to me.

SI


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:41 pm 
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Just FYI...you might find that sub helps ease your depression, and might not need to get on another med for this. I have tried all kinds of antidepressants over the years, and none of them worked for me. I got on sub for hydrocodone addiction, and from the very first day, I could tell a major improvement in my depression. I had no idea sub would help me with this. I have been on it for almost 2 months now, and my depression hasn't come back at all.

So you might just try the sub and see if it helps your depression before you add another med. That way, you will know exactly what causes any side effects you might have, and you won't have to guess which med is causing what. Then if it doesn't help your depression, you could always add another med later. This would also cut down on costs. :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Hey Taurus,

Thanks for the FYI. Interesting! The working theory of my therapist is that my depression (basically caused by the state of my marriage, now kaput) led to clouded judgment and a desire to dull the pain of both the depression and the failed/failing marriage, which in turn led to the abuse of hydrocodone. From a timeline perspective and from my life experience, that all makes perfect sense to me. I’ll let you know how the sub works for me, mood-wise. It’d be great if I experienced the same thing as you.

The good news is that I’ve found a sub doctor I like, will meet with him tomorrow, and begin sub on Wednesday. I’m excited and very anxious all at the same time. If sub actually does bring a strong sense of sobriety, then it will be the first time in many years that I’ve been sober. Kinda scary ... but I’m ready.

Many thanks for your input,

SI


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:28 am 
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Hey sometimes! i wanted to see how you are doing. ddi you say your doc appt is this wed? good for ou. Don't worry about being on subs forever, now every case is different some people are on it for 6 months some for 3 years , it just depends on different factors. i am hoping to be off within the year. But to me it's a marathon not a race, don't rush getting off (some people relapse that way) just use the suboxone as a tool to help break the pill addiction and prepare for a sober lifestyle. Like i said i think before there is some stigma with some people and subs. at first as silly as it sound i felt weird at the pharmacy like they would treat me bad or something.but you get over the pride thing, especially if you are serious about getting better. I am soo sorry you are going through this divorce. If it's meant hopefully after you show with action and not just words to your love ones you are serious about this , in the future you may have your family back together, if you stay separated from your wife, know it isn't ALL your fault. it does take two so try not to be too hard on yourself right now. work on getting better and go from there.
as far as what taurus said.. i ve heard this a lot that sub can help with depression so it may help you, i know it seems to for some
PLEASE let us know how your appt goes !!!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:00 am 
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Greetings to all,

My deepest thanks to you for your interest and support. Aside from a cousin and three close friends (none of them live near me), nobody knows about my addiction. Maybe the scariest thing is trying to get sober and stay sober without any real family support. Can’t tell my wife right now because she’ll try to take my kid away, and losing my kid would devastate me.

So I moved my appt. up to yesterday (Tuesday) ‘cause I really wanted to get started and am sooooo sick of my current life of drugs. Saw the doc and told him how much I’d been using – basically between 800-1,000 mg of hydrocodone per day (about 80-100 pills per day of 10/325 strength hydrocodone). He said he’d never heard of anyone taking that much per day. Am I really the only one who’s abused that much? Anyway, told him that over the past 5 or so weeks I’d cut down to about 25 pills/day (250 mg), and even did a few days with only 16 pills. Cutting down so much wasn’t easy, but I managed to do it and am glad I did. Baby steps, baby accomplishments …

In Dr. Junig’s Q&A section, in the thread titled “Bad luck, hard knocks, tapering Suboxone, Talwin,” the doc wrote this, which really scared me:

Quote:
What you describe sounds like ‘precipitated withdrawal’—if your total daily dose of opiates was greater than 30 mg of methadone, or 50 mg of oxycodone, or 70-80 mg of hydrocodone, then I would expect you to feel sick when starting Suboxone—unless you went a few days without any opioids and got your tolerance down a bit.


Dr. Junig’s comments scared the crap out of me, because I was hoping to stop using yesterday (Tues.) and be in w/d sometime today so I could start the subs. Christ, I’ve been taking 10-11 times the amount Doc Junig said might need days of w/d before starting sub. WTF? Terrifying. Am I gonna have to be in w/d for a week before I can take my first sub? After discussing the matter with my doctor, we agreed that if I was really fearful of precip w/d, then I shouldn’t do this during the work week. So he wrote me a script for sub film, and clonidine (sp?) and Restoril, a good sleeping medication. Although I hoped to be hydro free today, I resupplied myself just enough to scrape by until Friday afternoon, at which point I’ll be out of pills and will begin w/d. I told my supplier I’d be traveling on business for a month, so he won’t be calling me trying to sell more pills for a while. If he calls me, hopefully in a month I’ll be on my way and will simply say “no” to more pills.

My doc prescribed 24mg per day (one 8mg strip 3x per day). Hopefully between whatever inner strength I can muster and the w/d meds, I can go an entire weekend and well into Monday w/out too bad w/d symptoms, and by then maybe I’ll be in deep enough w/d to take the sub without worrying about precip w/d. I don’t want to take the full 24 mg each day, but I guess I’ll have to see how I feel after an 8 mg strip …

Important Question: Has anyone gone on sub after using so heavily like me? If so, what was your experience going on sub? How long before your induction?

I’ve been at “only” 25 pills (250 mg) of hydro for over 4 weeks, so I hope to God my tolerance has dropped somewhat over the past month.

If someone knows Dr. Junig, I’d love to hear him elaborate on the comment I quoted above. He’s scared the crap out of me! LOL.

Thanks for reading and for all your support,

SI


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:42 am 
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I was in a similar situation to you before my induction. I had got to the point with my addiction where I was snorting an 80mg OxyContin and it wasn't even coming close to getting me high, I was doing 3 of those a day just to maintain and I knew I was in big trouble, I knew something had to give. Right around that time I had heard of this drug called Suboxone and figured I'd give it a shot, I called around and got an appointment. My appointment was almost 4 weeks out, so like you, I decided I might as well try getting my dose down to make the transition easier. I got down to about 150mg - 200mg of Hydrocodone per day about a week or so before my induction. Prior to my induction, I abstained from opiates for a little over 24 hours, I was feeling pretty darn shitty when I went in for my induction. I took 8mg of Suboxone and about 30 minutes later I was STUNNED at how good I felt. After my initial dose, I basically hit the ground running.

You can use this COWS (clinical opiate wd scale) to judge how severe your wd's are. It's suggested to be in mild to moderate wd before taking Suboxone. Just an FYI, I was about a 24 or 25 on the COWS scale prior to induction.

http://www.naabt.org/documents/cows_ind ... _sheet.pdf

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:14 pm 
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SometimeIdiot wrote:

I’d been using – basically between 800-1,000 mg of hydrocodone per day (about 80-100 pills per day of 10/325 strength hydrocodone). He said he’d never heard of anyone taking that much per day. Am I really the only one who’s abused that much?

SI


My only question is HOW IN THE HECK DID YOU AFFORD THIS????? I have no doubt your not the only one who ever took this amount. I can easily see any addict, including myself, getting to this point if I had an unlimited supply of my drug.

I'm thinking about what that would have cost me and I'm coming up with at least $600 per day. How did you do it??????


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Unless you were doing a Cold Water Extraction you should also get your organs checked. That much Tylenol could be pretty damaging. Sounds like you need to stop or get on Sub immediately because of the damage you are doing to yourself and others.

For support, you have your therapist.. but are you willing to go to AA/NA and just listen? Ultimately, I found the 12 steps were not for me, but they did help at the start. You do not have to share that you are on Suboxone, you do not have to even talk if you do not want too.

Best of luck to you, but please know that you could be doing some very serious damage to yourself. Getting on Sub will give you a chance to put some things together. You are taking "baby steps" (I had to take many myself), but getting and staying on Sub is a big kid step. And that is a good thing.


Its also weird that the courts are making you live in the same house. I have never heard of that and I used to work in the Family Court System.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:50 pm 
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Folks,

Thanks for your continued input and support. I say it every time, I know, but it’s very true that I am deeply appreciative of this support.

Romeo, I’m encouraged to hear of your experience tapering off of opiates and the fairly quick relief that you got from subs. Thanks much for the COWS chart; it should be helpful this weekend when I start w/d (my last use of hydro will be tomorrow afternoon/early evening). The last 4-5 weeks I’ve been down to an average of 250 mg of hydro. A couple of days ago, when I took my first morning “dose” of hydro, I actually felt a very faint bit of that euphoria I felt a long time ago when I first started using. I took that as a good sign that my tolerance had dropped significantly over the past month. Wow, 24 or 25 on the COWS scale! That sounds incredibly uncomfortable! Glad you got through it and glad to hear that things are going well for you.

qhorsegal, 80-100 pills/day is insane, I know, and you’re spot-on correct about the cost. How did I do it? Well, I had a good income, but my use still negatively affected my finances (I’m not rich).

stephent, yes, I’m aware of potential for liver damage and am pretty scared of what I’ve done. My sub doc gave me a general check-up and he too was stunned at my usage and told me about the intense abuse of my liver. On the bright side, he said that he could tell that my liver was still functioning fairly well after all that abuse. The extent of the damage I’ve done to my liver will only be known after my blood tests.

I sure as hell wish I knew about Cold Water Extraction. IMHO, there ought to be a sticky thread devoted to that on this forum (maybe there is already? haven’t looked). It’s the informational equivalent of a clean needle exchange program for I/V heroin users.

It’s not that the family court system “forces” me to live in the same house with my estranged wife. I could move out any day. The problem is that, with kids involved, when a spouse/parent moves out for reasons other than domestic violence or other abusive scenarios (which thankfully doesn’t exist in my case), unfortunately the courts take that as a very strong signal that the departing spouse has less commitment to his/her children than the remaining spouse. It sucks, and in many ways it makes little sense, but I’ve spoken with two divorce attorneys and done research on the ‘net, and that’s exactly how the dynamics play out. Simply put, I adore my child and do not want to prejudice my custody rights, so yes, in that sense I’m kinda “stuck” here. Not the ideal situation for me, but it’s worth it in the long run for the benefit of my relationship with my child. Hope that makes sense.

I start w/d late tomorrow (Friday) and will deal with it this weekend and hope to be on sub as soon as I’m sure I’m in moderate w/d. Wish me luck, and thanks again Romeo for the COWS chart!

SI


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:58 pm 
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Just a tip about the COWS chart.....have someone else score you if you can, we tend to score ourselves higher than we should (aka--we exaggerate). If you can't get someone else to score you, it's no biggie, just try to be as accurate and honest with yourself as you can.

Good luck and I hope you keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:20 am 
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I was terribly afraid of precipitated withdrawals, and how much withdrawal I'd have to be in to start subs too. That was the one reason that I almost didn't start sub...even cancelled my first appt and waited 4 more month to reschedule. I didn't want to have to feel that bad.

When I did get on them, I waited 17 hours from my last Norco and was at a 19 on the COWS scale when I was inducted, and I didn't go into PW. I felt perfectly fine within 15 minutes of taking the sub. I was only doing 100mg hydro/day though. But my doctor said I didn't even have to wait that long and feel as bad as I did (which wasn't even that bad...just flu-like symptoms along with the creepy skin crawlies, which started about 4 hours prior to my appt...those were the worst part for sure). I think it's a good thing that you are only on hydrocodone, since it has a short half life.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:26 am 
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Thanks Romeo and Taurus!

I'll let you all know how this weekend goes down. I'm hoping it's mostly :) and very little :cry: .

SI


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Thanks for the reply, I was thinking about it earlier. Glad to see your liver appears to be not too damage. My relative that has liver damage was also drinking very very heavily as well.

Also, I have no doubt in my mind they you deeply love your child. I admire you for putting up with this situation for your children. When I worked in social worker far too often I would deal with abandoned children. That situation was what ended up really burning me down. I am just now getting over it.

Keep it up and best of luck too you. Remember, it will get better with time. Do not worry about any type of "stigma" that Suboxone may carry, you are putting your child's interests in front of everything else and that is how it should be.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:54 am 
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SometimeIdiot wrote:
Hi Everyone,

I’ve been addicted to hydrocodone for several years, using pretty heavily for the past few years, as much as 1,000 mg per day, but on average about 600-800 mg per day. I resolved to get clean a month or so ago, and wanted to use the rapid detox method under heavy sedation. Alas, long story short, this option isn’t available right now. But I’m totally fed up with Vicodin controlling my life and need to do something.

Initially, I was dead set against using Suboxone as part of my addiction treatment – I didn’t want to substitute one opiate for another. That didn’t make sense to me. But now it may be the only way I can start recovery, and your stories have been very helpful, inspiring and illuminating about the benefits of using Suboxone. However, I do worry about getting physically addicted to Suboxone and the withdrawal problems that creates. I guess when you deal with the devil of drug addiction, there are no easy outs.

My situation is a bit complicated, in that I’m getting a divorce and have a (soon to be ex) spouse who will do absolutely nothing to support me. But because of child custody issues, I have to live in the same house with her until the divorce is final, which may take at least 8 months. In essence, as I go through treatment, for a variety of reasons which I won’t get into, I will have practically zero support from friends or family. This concerns me greatly because I understand that support plays such a critical role in addiction recovery.

The other complication is that the chronic (i.e., for many years now) lack of even a shred of emotional support, compassion, or understanding from my spouse has caused pretty severe depression, which I also need to get treated for.

So I’m pretty terrified of starting my journey, of getting sober (well, sort of, if I use Sub) and starting to truly feel all the pain of the divorce, etc., and of relapsing due to depression or the lack of support. It’s flat-out scary.

I see the outpouring of support from you on this forum, and my hope is that maybe this forum can be a source of support for me. The bottom line is that I feel very alone right now in moving forward.

Question: it would be great to hear from anyone who has taken sub and also anti-depressants to treat depression, to hear how that has worked out. Originally, my therapist told me that I needed to kick the physical addiction before my depression could truly be effectively addressed with anti-depressants, the idea being that the depression was a huge trigger for the addiction. Anyway, hope that question makes sense.

I chose SometimeIdiot as my handle ‘cause when I look at some of the decisions I’ve made over the years and the damage I did to my marriage, I feel like a complete idiot and loser. But if my handle was CompleteIdiot, then perhaps nobody would take me seriously here! LOL

Thank you kindly for reading.

SI



















DEAR SOMETIMES IDIOT...

I think we don't realize what we put our spouses through with our addiction. I became a selfish bitch, only thinking about me and how to get enough pills for the next day,week,,etc.. With my pills my mood would change to good, without them I would be foul and only thinking of how I could get away and get enough money to buy more..I ruined every vacation we ever took because I always ran out of pills too soon and felt bad and let everybody know it...
I am saying all this because maybe there is hope with your spouse...She married you, not the druggie you became which are two different people...When you get on sub...and realize it works..and you don't have to live like this anymore, your happiness will return..your life will return,, and you will think of your child and your wife and their needs more than your own. She will definately notice the difference. If she does not know you have/had a drug problem..then all your behavior she thinks was just you. Maybe it would be good for her to know...(after you get some sobriety time)that it was never the real you, but the drugs talking...of which you had no control, because it is a disease..just like cancer or diabetes. If she could come to believe that..she might have a different take on things..after all you guys have a child together and nobody loves that child like you and she do...something to remember..the family..is a precious thing. My husband is a saint...and by the grace of God I do not know how he stayed with me for 29 years of addiction and all the things I put him through.

I guess he took the vows seriously.."in sickness and in health, for better or worse"...because there were a lot of "for worse!!" He does love me very much or he would have been long gone...I think any other man would have been long gone and I know I am lucky he stayed with me through it. .....but he is so happy now..to have his "wife" back...the real me that he married..and maybe the same can work out for you...even if not, she will have a new respect for you, seeing you change and that will help with your relationship and with the raising of this child.

Just some thoughts...
Slipper

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"For evil to flourish, all that is needed is for good people to do nothing." >> Edmund Burke


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Hey slipper,

My thanks again for your continued thoughtful and caring input. I am very grateful for all of the help and support I’ve received from forum members.

It is true: I am not the man my wife married. Assuming she doesn’t already know (and she’s chosen not to tell me), at some point I will tell her of my addiction. Keeping this secret has been a huge burden. I hate it. But I will tell her only after I see some real changes in my life and I have stabilized in my path to recovery.

There is a part of me that wishes my wife would respond as your husband has. But I have to accept the fact that even if I’ve changed for the better, she may not want to be married to a (former?) addict. I know that if the roles were reversed, I’d be very leery of staying married to someone who had done what I’ve done, even if they’ve straightened their life out. Just cold, hard reality. And I also have to remember that my addiction hasn’t just affected me. Even if my wife can forgive me, doubtless she will think about all the times I drove my child (and her too) in my car while under the influence (and heavy influence at that). She may not be able to forgive me for the risks I took with our child. Heck, I may never be able to forgive myself for such repeated, terrible errors in judgment. I can only be thankful that nothing bad happened as a result.

The other part of the marriage equation reflects a truth that applies to most other failed marriages: it’s rarely the fault of only one spouse. My wife has betrayed me in some very important ways, and the fact is that for our marriage to work in the future, she will have to make some painful and fundamental changes in herself. She may not be willing to do this, in which case the marriage will definitely end in divorce – I refuse to be married to the woman she is/has become. It wouldn’t be healthy for me or our child.

SI


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 Post subject: REPLY FROM SLIPPER
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:18 pm 
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SometimeIdiot wrote:
Hey slipper,

My thanks again for your continued thoughtful and caring input. I am very grateful for all of the help and support I’ve received from forum members.

It is true: I am not the man my wife married. Assuming she doesn’t already know (and she’s chosen not to tell me), at some point I will tell her of my addiction. Keeping this secret has been a huge burden. I hate it. But I will tell her only after I see some real changes in my life and I have stabilized in my path to recovery.

There is a part of me that wishes my wife would respond as your husband has. But I have to accept the fact that even if I’ve changed for the better, she may not want to be married to a (former?) addict. I know that if the roles were reversed, I’d be very leery of staying married to someone who had done what I’ve done, even if they’ve straightened their life out. Just cold, hard reality. And I also have to remember that my addiction hasn’t just affected me. Even if my wife can forgive me, doubtless she will think about all the times I drove my child (and her too) in my car while under the influence (and heavy influence at that). She may not be able to forgive me for the risks I took with our child. Heck, I may never be able to forgive myself for such repeated, terrible errors in judgment. I can only be thankful that nothing bad happened as a result.

The other part of the marriage equation reflects a truth that applies to most other failed marriages: it’s rarely the fault of only one spouse. My wife has betrayed me in some very important ways, and the fact is that for our marriage to work in the future, she will have to make some painful and fundamental changes in herself. She may not be willing to do this, in which case the marriage will definitely end in divorce – I refuse to be married to the woman she is/has become. It wouldn’t be healthy for me or our child.

SI




Of course I don't know all the ins and outs of your marriage and don't need to...but I will tell you I did all those things you did...driving our kids around under the influence of a lot of drugs....MY God the things I did..you would just not believe a person could stoop so low..but I did..and he would always find out in the end...I hated everyone, but most of all I hated myself more than anyone else..what I had become and could not seem to change it...always ruining everything...
I had a hard time forgiving myself for all those things. I am not a holy roller by any means...but I finally ask God to forgive me for all of it..all of it..and to help me forgive myself...and I finally have..that does not mean I don't remember it.I will choose to remember it, but I have forgiven me. I was a good little girl growing up, and even in college and the first part of my nursing career...and a good wife and mother...then my husband had a major heart attack and bypass surg. at 33..and I became so afraid he would die and I had small children.boys...that needed a dad..(MY dad had died at 40 of the same thing)) I saw my little brother 8 ...grow up without dad..it did some damage...

so I started taking my husbands pain pills for migraines..and it just escalated into this addiction from hell and changed the person I was to a person I did not know...My husband was at a loss as to what to do..he did not understand it...he would get so angry with me..we would go weeks without even speaking to each other..and we survived it...there is always hope..
He had done some stupid things in the past as well and I had stayed with him...maybe he felt he owed me back..I don't know..but whether your marriage works out or not...you will become the person you always were, and be proud of yourself again..and you must forgive yourself so you can get on with your life..for your sake and the sake of your son...

We are not unique in addiction..we all do the same stupid dumb things...over and over again..just to get our drugs....but underneath the disease I believe we are good people..most of us smarter than the earth people out there and deserve a chance at life...suboxone gave me that chance...I will always be grateful for this drug...it has save my marriage and my life.

I wish you good luck and good times..and am sorry to ramble on so...but just felt I needed to say this to you.
I hope suboxone does for you what it has done for me.
thanks....
Slipper

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"For evil to flourish, all that is needed is for good people to do nothing." >> Edmund Burke


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 Post subject: INDUCTION SUCCESSFUL!!!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 1:24 am 
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Hi Folks,

Well, after 50+ hours of abstinence from hydrocodone, I finally called the doc and he agreed to let me start the sub. I waited that long because on the COWS scale I couldn’t grade myself past 8 (I tried to be objective), and I was really afraid of a precipitated w/d, which I don’t think can be reversed (can it? I’m under the impression it can’t be because of the superior binding affinity of the sub to the opiate receptors).

The doc has prescribed 24 mg per day, one 8 mg strip 3x per day. I only took a quarter of a strip (2 mg) for my first dose – I was deathly afraid of inducing precipitated w/d! Within about 30 minutes or so, about 70% of the edginess and discomfort was gone. Although I didn’t feel good or fully at ease, after the 2 mg dose I could concentrate on work and had no cravings whatsoever. After another hour or so, I took another quarter strip (2 mg), and didn’t feel much of a change within an hour after the second dose. So I took another 2 mg strip, and as I write this, I feel okay. Not great, not “normal,” but okay. Kinda feels like I have a mild hangover right now, and if I had to go through life feeling like this for the next few months, I definitely could do that. :)

We’ll see what tomorrow brings, as that will be my first day on sub (I took my first dose at about 6 p.m. today). I’m hoping I can sleep tonight without any more sub. I’m also hoping that I’ll be able to cope with daily life using 6-8 mg of sub per day. Time will tell …

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again many times, I’m sure, but I am very grateful for the support from all of you. It has meant a lot to me in my struggles. It really has. I feel bad that I’m not in a great place for reciprocating with the support – my depression and home situation has really sucked the life and energy out of me, and has turned me into a major “taker” right now. I’m really very sorry about that.

SI

P.S. Hi slipper, thanks for your post. I’m pretty exhausted right now. The w/d meant I didn’t sleep much over the past day or two. But I hear ya! Eventually I have to forgive myself, accept the things I did, and move on with life. My wife too. Divorced or not, she’ll have to let it go too, if not for me, for our little one so we can raise our child as loving, cooperative parents. SI


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