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 Post subject: Re: The Ceiling
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:09 pm 
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Hi Proper,

Hatmaker has been gone from the forum atleast two years now. Ill look around to see if I can come up with her post your wanting. She was/is a valuable member back in the day.
The Search box is your best bet though.


Razor


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 Post subject: Re: The Ceiling
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:38 pm 
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Hi Gang!

I was gonna start a new thread, but saw this one and felt my thoughts would fit nicely here.

I've been on Suboxone/Buprenmorphine for over 7yrs now. I took 24mg for most of this time period. About two years ago, my doctor began reducing me (which initially scared the crap out of me).

My first couple reductions were VERY difficult on me psychologically. I think I was just so petrified that changing anything would lead me back down "that road". I slowly grew stronger mentally, after realizing the lower dose didn't kill me. I continued to slowly taper and really didn't have any physical
withdrawal symptoms until I dropped from 6mg to 4mg. To date, that has been the most difficult reduction for me physically. Headaches, nausea, overwhelming fatigue, and major anxiety. I honestly
didn't think I would be able to maintain that dose the first couple months....but, I just tried to be strong.

It took me over 6 months to finally adjust to that dose. My doctor has been pushing me to taper completely off over the past year. I have no hang-ups about taking a pill every day, when I truly feel it's SAVING my life. I've communicated my feelings many times to my doctor, but he seems hell bent on forcing me off. He's scheduled me to reduce from 4mg to 3mg beginning next wknd. To make it easier on myself, I've begun lowering my dose over the past couple wks.....which leads me to the purpose of my post. IM HAVING LOTS OF ISSUES BEING UNDER THE CEILING!!

The 4mg didn't hold me for a full 24hrs, but pretty close. I've been taking 1mg and then another 2mg later and it's very uncomfortable. I'm waking up in withdrawal. Then, when I dose it helps but often zones me out & makes me tired. Then, a few hrs later withdrawals hit me hard again. I DONT like this.
I don't like dosing multiple times, I don't like having ups & downs. When I'm on a well adjusted dose, I feel "normal".

I'm gonna give the 3mg dose an honest effort. But, I have no intentions on tapering completely off anytime soon if ever. If this dose dosent eventually become manageable, I think I may need to stay at
4mg. I asked my doc "What happens if I just can't reduce to 3mg?" And he replied "I have to".

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: The Ceiling
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:13 am 
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If ur doctor is going to possibly make u eventually drop from 4mg to 3mg, and u don't think that's what's best for u, would u be willing to look for another doctor who will listen to u? I know finding another doctor and having to start over with someone but if ur doctor isn't willing to work with ya, u may wanna think about it when the time comes. Hopefully u can try to really convince him/her about what's best for u. Some doctors will listen to their patients and unfortunately some will not. If u feel good at 4mg then why not leave ya at 4mg? 4mg is an awesome dose to be at imo and you've done great to get to 4. I just hope ur doctor doesn't force this on ya, I hate seeing that happen if ur doing good where ur at :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Ceiling
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:09 pm 
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Thanks so much for your response Jenn!

Yeah, he's definitely reducing me. I see him every two months. He kept me at 4mg for this month, so I could "mentally prepare". He wrote me a second script for 3mg that I'm to get filled this Friday for the next 30 days. I'm honestly not ready to reduce to 3mg. It took a long time to adjust to the 4mg, but I finally adjusted over this past month.

I'm also worried about being in withdrawal from this lower dose over the holiday (limo access to him), as well as a week long vacation my family is going on. Withdrawal is never fun, but feeling shitty and visiting relatives at the same time feels daunting!

I hate to find another doc for obvious reasons, but also because he has helped me work through some deep issues over the yrs. However, my recovery is MY OWN. And, I think I need to convey that to him politely. I've been thinking it would be a good idea to just get an appt on the books with another doc (in case I simply can't adjust to 3mg or in the event my doc tries to push me completely off within the next couple months, which seems to be his plan). I think this would help me feel like I have a safety net.

It's been so long since I've had to do the "doctor thing", I'm uncertain if going to a consultation and getting a script (but not filling it unless I ended treatment with my current doc) would cause any issues.
I know some doctors make you confirm you're not seeing another Sub doc and possibly turn over any existing Sub prior to beginning treatment with them.

I guess I won't know until I try though. My preferred outcome is to simply get my doctor to understand and respect my choice to remain on Buprenmorphine. I'm willing to at least try to reduce to 3mg. But, I have no intention on tapering completely off any time soon. I've been telling him that for yrs, but he continues to remain focused on forcing me off.

This is where I'd love some input from Dr. J.
I've been on Sub/Buprenmorphine for over 7yrs. I've never slipped up, had a dirty UI, ran out of medication early, or anything. Why is it that some doctors just decide that patients need to come off a medication that's truly helping them? It just makes no sense to me.


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 Post subject: Re: The Ceiling
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2017 11:06 pm 
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Different doctors have such differing opinions about how long people should stay on Sub. Fortunately where I'm from there is zero pressure from any doctor I've seen to pressure me to reduce. Though I've heard of some other doctors who do.

That being said I do know of some people who were pressured to reduce off their Sub as a result of attending NA meetings who are now doing really well and have numerous years abstinent and opioid free. I spoke to one the other day who is now a successful sports journalist in Hong Kong. He said he hated it at the time, but he owes a lot to his sponsor and the men in the NA rooms who compelled him to take the plunge. He may have even jumped off a high-ish dose (4mg?). He was telling his story to try and inspire me to do the same.

However in my case it's only been 2-3 months since I last lapsed, so I'm by no means ready. However if you've managed to stay off your drug-of-choice while on Suboxone without any lapses, and you've been through most possible situations that usually trigger a relapse (breakups, loneliness, grief, unemployment etc), you might be ready?

Sadly there are no studies of people who've been on Suboxone a LONG time who reduce off, to measure their success. The only studies are of people who've been on it under a year, and their success rates post-Sub are not good. About the same percentage stay clean long term post-sub as those who try to get clean using rehab or NA without Suboxone, that is not many.

But over the years there have been a LOT of people who've gone off Sub on this forum who are doing quite well. Sadly I'm not one of them. Have tried a couple of times but usually relapse between 18 months and 24 months clean. Every time it's been due to a relapse into severe depression (with or without psychosis).


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