It is currently Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:59 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:58 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:40 pm
Posts: 43
Okay everybody, I even wrote the Doc about this article, but understand how busy he is. I came across this article about a month ago. Of course it made me furious, but I have been noticing, after about 14 months on 22mgs of Suboxone, I can barely keep my head up during the day. I can't bear to admit that my beloved miracle drug may be turning on me, and worse yet I can't talk to my Doc about it because he has a God complex and every time I ask a question he completely freaks on me. Example at the beginning of my taking this I imediately began having tremendous trouble breathing. he stated that it asbsolutely was NOT the Suboxone. Well I went to a Sleep Doc who diagnosed me with severe central sleep apnea and said it absolutely IS the Suboxone, as he is starting to see it all the time. Now, of course my Doc denies ever saying that. Why not change Docs? I have no Insurance and am on an Assistance program until late summer. Its very complicated but please just TRUST me I can't talk to him and I can't change Docs until the summer. I have to get my info here. At any rate I'm a zombie. I'm trying to reduce my doseage little by little on my own, but I just found out I have to start taking the film and am so afraid I wont be able to have as much control over my doseage. Can anyone offer me any encouragement, OTHER THAN get a different Doctor? I promise you, That is NOT AN OPTION until the end of the summer.
Thanks so much.....and please tell me what you think of this article!

http://guineveregetssober.com/suboxone- ... ance-drug/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Hi
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:09 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Carson City, Nevada
Thanks for posting the link. I actually appreciated reading that article. I found Dr. Scanlan online a little while back and contacted his office to get some advice. What NICE and knowledgeable people!! The people he hires to work in his office are in recovery as well and they go to meetings with him. He's not one who is looking down on anyone. That's for sure. I was really impressed when I contacted them at how out of their way they went to get back with me and how eager they were to be of help. Strangely enough, I've also emailed back and forth with Guinevere, the author of that article, and I've been so impressed with her. What a fantastic lady!!

I know it's easy to get depressed when you read something like that. It's a hard reality to deal with. On the other hand, it has helped me understand better what I've been going though, after being on Suboxone since 2005. The stacking effect really bothers me. It makes it tough to know whether you are getting anywhere when you taper! My feeling at this point is that I'm just going to think positively, as in 'I CAN do this!' If I were you, I wouldn't be upset about having to switch to the films, especially if you are planning on tapering. They are easy to fold/cut, so you can break them down into tiny doses.

I agree with Dr. Scanlan that there are a number of people who need to stay on maintenance therapy forever. I also think there are side effects and downsides to taking Suboxone, just like there are with any other drug. That's just reality. It doesn't make Suboxone a bad drug or a bad choice.

laddertipper

_________________
First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:00 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
I read the article and found it very interesting too. I can certainly see why the article would concern you so much though.

I agree with all of what LadderTripper said, especially the fact that Suboxone has it's good points and it's bad points. It's just like any other drug on the market, it has the potential to cause side effects.

I would suggest you continue to taper and see if that helps relieve some of your symptoms. It's often said of Suboxone, less is more. I know I felt better and better as I took less and less.

22mg is a kind of high dose, unless you're taking it for pain?


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:14 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:20 pm
Posts: 635
Well, let's see.....I'm now 27 months in to my maintenance with suboxone. I am not an emotionless slug as this story would suggest I should be by now. I was slowly but surely killing myself on drugs I was purchasing on the street. Now, my life is stable, my emotions are fine, I'm going to the gym three days a week, and I'm actually starting to lose a little weight (which is a good thing, considering I'm only 5' 8" tall and weigh 235).

For every doctor that's out there screaming "Fire!" in a crowded theater about long-term maintenance, there is another one who will tell you it saves lives, plain and simple.

Is it better to be shooting heroin, or crunching up half a dozen 20mg oxycontin tablets every day, or swallowing 50 or 60 5/325 percs every day?

I think practically ANYONE taking 22mg per day of suboxone is going to be drooling on their shoes! That's FAR more than should be necessary to completely saturate your receptors. I would suggest, as Romeo said, taper down and see how you feel.

And don't believe all of the negative hype out there surrounding suboxone. I live in the Boston area, I have Hepatitis C and I'm in pretty rough shape because of it. I have to have a liver biopsy once every two years to check for liver damage.....you know what my surgeons told me? They said generally speaking Tylenol is more dangerous to your body than ANY opioid medication. These are surgeons in some of the best hospitals ON EARTH. They know what they're talking about. And it's good enough for me. They said, "if it's keeping you off drugs, then stay on it."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Thanks Everybody!!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:10 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:40 pm
Posts: 43
Thanks everybody.....again, since I can't talk to my Doc, I needed to hear just exactly what you all are telling me. I'm going to start to taper tomorrow (already took today's....took 20 mgs not 22) ..awesome.
Thank God for this website.

B


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:16 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
bdonahue,

I don't mean to rush you, but you should be able to taper fairly rapidly until you reach the 4mg - 8mg range. Many, many, many of us found this to be true. I just wanted to throw that out there for you.

Please, don't drop to 8mg tomorrow, that's not what I mean. I'm thinking every week you should be able to drop by 2mg to 4mg though. Listen to your mind and body.

I really hope your symptoms improve!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: I hear you Romeo
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:26 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:40 pm
Posts: 43
I actually got really scared one day last week and dropped 8 mgs one day and felt horrible by the end of the day. As I will be switching to film this weekend, I will go 2mgs a week probably. Man thank God I ran into you guys today. I thought I was going insane. Why on earth am I on 22 mgs to begin with? Initially everytime I said, "well I'm fine, but we're moving next week" it was "well lets go up 4 mgs and see how you do" of course being an addict I'm like "Sure!" UGH. The concept of ME saying "I'd like LESS please." Haha-WHO knew?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:02 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Carson City, Nevada
bdonahueweedman, I'm glad you are feeling better about the situation. Listen, there are a whole lot of us who were on high doses and really had no idea why or even that it was a high dose. I mean, unless you have something to compare it to, how can you possibly know? Plus, I've heard plenty of stories of people just going to the doctor and getting their script after a VERY brief visit and they do that same thing every month....in and out. I know my first doctor was especially like that. I think I got to see the guy for five minutes, unless I drew it out by asking questions. If I never suggested tapering to a lower dose, I really doubt he ever would have. My best friend was at 32 mg for three years and her doctor never discussed lowering her dose or getting counseling....nothing. Don't feel bad for not knowing 22 mg is high. Now you know, and if you follow a modest and reasonable plan for tapering, you should be able to get your dose lower with little to know w/d. Don't panic and do a big drop. There is seriously zero point in that. Try to keep it around 10% every 1-2 weeks and you will be surprised how easy it is to get down lower.

junkie, I see where you are coming from. I honestly do. I do believe there are cases where taking Suboxone (or Methadone) forever is the only reasonable solution, and from what you said, it sounds like you are in that category. I also think too many people who don't belong in that category are being put there, just like people are on these gigantic doses and really don't even understand that. The truth seems to always lie somewhere in the middle in a gray area. Not every opiate addict can use Suboxone for a short period and have a decent shot at staying sober or even staying alive. There's a point when it's just ridiculous to make an issue out of someone taking Suboxone if they are happy taking it and have limped out of a horrendous and dangerous drug habit. Then there are people with addictions that are not as long-term or severe, and for them, it's probably best to use Suboxone short-term and then follow that up with intensive counseling, etc. I think it's critical for doctors to really invest their efforts in determining where on the severity spectrum a person's addiction lies so they can treat it appropriately. What you said about Tylenol....so true!!! Tylenol is one of the most toxic things you can take.

laddertipper

_________________
First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:05 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:20 pm
Posts: 635
Romeo is right. From where you are now, you should easily be able to taper down from there in a relatively short period of time. Hell, I went from 16mg to 12mg in one jump and felt nothing. But Romeo's also right in that you must listen to your body.

If I were in your shoes, here's what I'd do a pattern of reduction along the lines of this:

Day01: 20mg
Day02: 19mg
Day03: 19mg
Day04: 19mg
Day05: 18mg
Day06: 18mg
Day07: 17mg
Day08: 17mg
Day09: 17mg
Day10: 16mg
Day11: 16mg
Day12: 16mg
Day13: 15mg
Day14: 15mg
Day15: 15mg
Day16: 14mg
Day17: 14mg
Day18: 14mg
Day19: 13mg
Day20: 13mg
Day21: 13mg
Day22: 12mg
Day23: 12mg
Day24: 12mg
Day25: 11mg
Day26: 11mg
Day27: 11mg
Day28: 10mg
Day29: 10mg
Day30: 10mg

I doubt you will even notice any of that, but if you do, simply extend your time at each dose until you feel OK.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject: Good greif
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:02 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:40 pm
Posts: 43
How am I going to know what 19 and 17 and 15 mgs looks like with the film? Can you cut this stuff? oh hell I'll figure it out. Thanks you guys. SO much!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:05 pm 
"I do believe there are cases where taking Suboxone (or Methadone) forever is the only reasonable solution.......I also think too many people who don't belong in that category are being put there, just like people are on these gigantic doses and really don't even understand that. The truth seems to always lie somewhere in the middle in a gray area. Not every opiate addict can use Suboxone for a short period and have a decent shot at staying sober or even staying alive. There's a point when it's just ridiculous to make an issue out of someone taking Suboxone if they are happy taking it and have limped out of a horrendous and dangerous drug habit. " ~Laddertripper

You took the words right out of my mouth, Ladder!

Bdon, Thanks for coming here to discuss your concerns and for sharing the article. I personally found it interesting. I don't think the information in it is anything new necessarily. I've heard/read such opinions before. I, again personally, tend to give credence to the opinions of experts such as the doctor involved in that article. He certainly is educated and experienced and also is an addict in recovery. Beyond that, I know nothing about him, but again, I have no reason to doubt that his opinions hold some value. I did not study the article at great length, but I do take a little issue with the statements about this being a new drug without sufficient time in use to know if it's safe (or something to that effect) This is not a new drug, so I'm not particularly worried that there will come a day when we all grow a third eye or anything! The other thing is that I have a lot of confidence in what Dr. Junig's opinions are....for the same reasons - He's educated, experienced and has been there himself. And his opinion, from what I understand differs quite a bit from this other doctor. It just kind of goes to show me that even amongst professionals there will be differing opinions about things.
For me, the more I know the better. The more professional opinions and research, etc that I can gather and process, the better. We all have our own experiences with addiction and recovery and we all have our own experiences with buprenorphine. Some say they're completely unaffected by the drug, while others feel quite affected by it. There are just so many things that come into play that there isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. Again, I agree with what Laddertripper said about that.
As far as the dosing issue for you Bdon...everyone has given you some good advice. My experience was also that I had zero problems dropping rather quickly in rather large increments all the way down to around 4mg/day. I also felt much better at doses around 6-8mg/day. Things didn't get rough until under 4mg or so. In my opinion, it is at that dosage that one must really dig deep and figure out if they should proceed with further tapering and getting off Sub or not. In any case, I believe that (as with most medications) the lowest amount of bupe that keeps one stable is where one should stay. Why take way more of any drug than is necessary? I bet you can get your dose down relatively easily and I bet you'll feel a lot less sleepy and much more alert.
Let us know how it goes!


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:22 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Carson City, Nevada
Setmefree said:

As far as the dosing issue for you Bdon...everyone has given you some good advice. My experience was also that I had zero problems dropping rather quickly in rather large increments all the way down to around 4mg/day. I also felt much better at doses around 6-8mg/day. Things didn't get rough until under 4mg or so. In my opinion, it is at that dosage that one must really dig deep and figure out if they should proceed with further tapering and getting off Sub or not. In any case, I believe that (as with most medications) the lowest amount of bupe that keeps one stable is where one should stay. Why take way more of any drug than is necessary? I bet you can get your dose down relatively easily and I bet you'll feel a lot less sleepy and much more alert.

Those are absolutely some wise words. I know that I like to think of things as being all or nothing, when in reality, the best answer is often a moderate one. I didn't want to taper at all unless I could taper all the way off and quickly. Now, I see how I psyched myself out with that mentality. I'd advise anyone who is on a relatively high dose and having problems to not worry about getting all the way off Sub. Just focus on decreasing your dose at a moderate pace. Most likely, many of those symptoms will disappear. And then, as Setmefree said, you can reevaluate whether it's best to keep tapering or to stay put. I'm still on 1.5 mg a day and many of my symptoms have already gone away or at least been alleviated. It's definitely a very noticeable difference.

laddertipper

_________________
First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Good greif
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:48 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 3:46 pm
Posts: 461
Location: South Florida
bdonahueweedman wrote:
How am I going to know what 19 and 17 and 15 mgs looks like with the film? Can you cut this stuff? oh hell I'll figure it out. Thanks you guys. SO much!


The film is very easy to cut. I just use some good smallish hair scissors. IMHO you can get a more consistent split than the pills. You could even measure a film strip and make a little template to help you cut it. Oh and make sure your hands are dry.

Good luck
gb


Top
 Profile  
 
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:09 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:20 pm
Posts: 635
Yeah, beat me too it, glen bee

I would say the films are probably easier to dish out in 1mg amounts than the tablets, which tend to crumble when chopped. If the films are 2mg, then obviously 1/2 of 1 film is 1mg, right?

Use a small ruler to measure them, and cut them directly in half. As suggested, either use a small pair of scissors or perhaps an "exacto" knife and you're good to go.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: recovery...
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:28 am 
Offline
Super-Duper Poster
Super-Duper Poster

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 311
Bdon....thanks for the article. I, too, found it interesting and usually put more credence into something like that when the Dr. themselves is in recovery....I like that he understands what is feels like to detox and understands what really happens physiologically to us. And I agree, I think there are way too many Sub dr who are just doing it for the money...and don't understand addiction. but that is a different discussion.

I agree with Ladder and Setmefree..nothing new to add there and of course I have no idea about a tapering schedule.
But the second part of what Dr. Scanlon emphasized is recovery support. That those who remained clean and sober were attending AA or NA (his words) and have done a 5th step, and how what he finds in his practice is the people who remain clean and sober (there has to be a new term for that...i hate the term 'clean') are seeking some kind of spiritual growth.

I don't agree with that just because I go to AA or believe in God. I believe recovery comes in many forms but the one thing I do think is that we cannot do this alone. I believe we need support other than just stopping use...and so I just wanted to point that part of his article out again...that the greatest chance for success in long term recovery comes with doing some other work on ourselves.

I was thinking about when I first got clean....in 2000 when I had that first 5 years clean and sober. It took 8 years to get there, first off. It was such a struggle and I had such a long way to go...still do...but after talking in a women's meeting about my miscarriages and relapsing on vicodin again and wondering how the hell this became my life she asked me to get honest. And then she asked me what it was that I really wanted. I told her that what I really wanted (at that time) was to be able to use without consequences. That I liked my life much better that way. It was the first time i'd said that outloud and it was a relief. But that was as far as I took it. At that time that is what I believed in. Opiates. with a side of alcohol.
I was so sick that I thought my only way out of my head was through using. Since then, and after waking up one day and realizing I had actually put together five entire years clean and sober without a drop of anything I understood what recovery really meant. And now I can't imagine every saying "all i want is to use without consequences". Now I seek out things like spiritual growth, friendships, especially friendships with women, working on ways to change the old crap that I grew up with so I can have a little bit of freedom from my head....and for me I know that had I just stopped using I would never have seen what recovery really is about.

My life is completely different now. I still make a lot of mistakes but I've learned how to love unconditionally, which is not something I grew up with. I've learned how to be able to admit when I'm wrong and apologize. I've learned how to forgive. I've learned how to get out of myself and help other people but most importantly I've learned how to love. First myself, then others. I just don't think I'd ever been able to do that had I not had a recovery program.

But I do have to say that the article made me a bit more cautious about long term Sub use. I am just now at the 3 month mark on Sub and would really like to taper...but I know I'm not quite ready. And I do think long term use is justified for some. and that many unedcuated dr. keep their patients at high doses for no good reason except ignorance. Dr. Scanlon did scare me when he talked about getting of Sub is harder than methadone. But he is right when he says that a partial agonist opioid is a foreign substance in our bodies. Our receptors are not made for partial agonists. Thinking along that line makes it more understandable why i am so cautious about long term use. I hated being methadone long term. It did its job, got my addiciton into remission but there were terrible side effects. I am already starting to feel some changes on sub in 3 months. Some side effects I don't want. Its minimal but it scares me because I don't want to end up like I was, emotionally, when I was on methadone. I doubt I will...but I haven't been on long enough to really know for sure.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:48 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:03 pm
Posts: 991
I do not doubt that there is some value in the doctor's opinions, however, I also think there could certainly be some bias because A) he is working for a rehab clinic and there is money to be made in getting people off suboxone and B) the patients he is seeing want OFF the sub which means he is seeing far fewer patients who are having fewer sub side effects and who are doing well and are happy with the medication. It does not surprise me that he would have a more negative view of the drug.

There are a couple of points in the article I am not so certain about. He indicated that anything more than 3 weeks on the drug and you would be dealing with a whole new problem. Okay. But he didn't mention recovery rates or relapse statistics of people who were taken off sub within only three weeks. Those are quite high. He does talk about relapse rates or sobriety rates of those detoxed off long term sub use and states they are what? 50% if they are in a program at 6 months? 6 months isn't a very long term study. Doesn't this also mean that 50% relapsed? Unless you are having some pretty severe side effects on sub, do you really want a 50/50 chance of relapse and going back to the "life" you had before sub? I would be cautious.

Another point I'm not so sure about is that sub is a new drug. It was already mentioned that it is not. He said he would rather see methadone used for long term maintenance than sub. But didn't he just say prior that sub could cause loss of emotion and lack of sex drive? I can't even begin to tell you how many people I have seen who were on methadone complain that they felt like emotionless drones. The abuse potential with methadone is far higher. So he thinks people should take methadone versus suboxone because why? Oh...because suboxone is such a "new" drug. But it isn't such a new drug and it actually works.

Anyhow, I am not sure I agree entirely with him. That doesn't mean I disagree entirely either. I would agree that your body can and will react to any drug or food or chemical you expose it to. Just the way it is. But at least people on sub are alive.

-Jack

_________________
Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things.

- Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:40 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:08 am
Posts: 1503
He's advocating the use of methadone over buprenorphine. His argument that we know the long term effects of methadone, yet for suboxone we are all guinea pigs, is fair. We are guinea pigs. But so are people put on long term anti-depressants. Most psychiatric medications are studied for no longer than 6-8 months. People are generally on them for years. People are guinea pigs to the food industry, new fertilisers & pesticides, new technologies. Who knows how most of the shit in this world effects us? Just as there was once thalidomide, there was also asbestos.

But remember, this guy has had no experience with maintenance himself. If he'd been on both methadone & suboxone maintenance himself, he'd know that methadone puts more stress on the body in the long term.

So, on the one hand he's saying "I'm a recovering addict so I know more than most of the other Doctors in my field" - yet he has no personal experience with being on methadone or any opiate maintenance, yet feels he can use this added credibility to make statements in this area as well?

Suboxone shits on methadone. Methadone made me feel like I had the body of a 50 year old, even though I was 25. It saturated my receptors a lot more I felt than when I was using heroin. I know that suboxone is only marginally easier to get off than methadone, yet I still choose suboxone for the better quality of life it provides.

And where is his evidence that the human body doesn't know what to do with partial agonists & that they're unnatural? This sounded like pseudo-science, honestly. Actually, it is a bunch of pseudo-science. I'd be willing to say that to the guy's face.

I also question why he didn't promote other recovery support groups than AA/NA. Personally, this guy looks like just another 12 step freak who has a bone to pick with maintenance.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Film
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:02 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:35 am
Posts: 2801
Location: Southwest
I agree with Romeo that you can make large drops from high doses in the beginning. I went from 24 to 16 w/o any symptoms at all. Then 16 to 12, same, 12 to 8mgs, still no symptoms. But then that's me, not you. Like he said, listen to your body.

Now why didn't they put score marks on the film? Those stupid things are 7/8's long with no markings, so it's a guess. But at least there is the 2 mg strips you can use once you get down to 4mg.

For me, it's all in my head when I taper. There has not been a physical reaction as yet. But after reading that article I'm going to continue to taper off. Should be off Sub in 6-9 months if all goes well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:20 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:59 pm
Posts: 993
Location: Carson City, Nevada
I think everyone has suggested some very valid concerns with long-term Sub use, short-term Sub use, AND the article itself. As I mentioned, I've spent a fair amount of time speaking with this doctor's office and I was really impressed. (And BTW, I've called many, many offices, Ibogaine centers, detox centers, etc. trying to get info on Suboxone, and it's been hit and miss.) What impressed me about the people at Dr. Scanlan's office was the amount of concern (especially the time they spent on the phone with me, knowing I'm on the other side of the country) and the absolute lack of arrogance. There is definitely an atmosphere of "we are trying to learn as much as we can because we do not know it all yet". I was told to write to the doctor with any questions or concerns I have and also about my experience with Suboxone. Honestly, it's fair to disagree with what he said in this article, but I do believe that he's a guy who would alter his opinion if he was presented with enough evidence to do so. So, I'd encourage you guys to write to him or email him with any information you want him to consider and to be polite. :D I know for a fact that it was a risky thing for him to say many of these things and that he's gotten a very split reaction. He's gotten a lot of serious flack and a lot of incredible praise. You have to respect anyone who will go out on a limb in that way for what he believes is information people deserve to have. I really appreciate this man's humility and the fact that he's as willing as he is to listen and learn. Even more than that, I appreciate that he doesn't look down on the rest of us who have struggled with addictions and that we are the people he wants to hear and learn from. I have not received that sort of reception from my three Sub doctors. :wink: I know that the author of that article is hoping to get an interview with Dr. Junig. Hopefully, that will happen because I'd love to hear his response.

laddertipper

_________________
First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:27 pm 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:47 am
Posts: 130
as some others have said, i dont think this dr is lookign at the big picture which; if you get off sub in three weeks, will you stay sober? thats the big question and i think the answer is most likely no. in addition he is saying that if you stay on sub for more then three weeks you will be dealing with a whole new set of problems. well if i dont stay on sub for three weeks im going to be dealing with all my old problems which are way worse then my new "problem".

then he says:When I was detoxing off fentanyl in 2008, I felt so good on Suboxone that I thought about staying on it. Then something happened. I no longer felt so good. My feelings dulled. I no longer wanted food or sex. I realized my body was adapting to the drug—or trying to. And I got scared, and tapered off as quickly as I could. - well thats his opinion because there are plenty of people that have had his problems as listed but there are plenty that havent and it seems like he is projecting his side effects on to other people or everyone for that matter.

the one thing i do agree with him about is that i think people get on subs thinking that the sub will do the work and take care of the disease. they also think they can just stop taking it and go back to normal, which isnt the case. there are reprucussions to taking sub but at least in my case these negative things do not in any way outweigh the positives. at this point i would much rather be tapered off the sub then taking pills off the street and withdrawing when i run out of money.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group