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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:31 pm 
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as for withdrawls, there are alot of people here and people i have talked to in person taht said methadone withdrawls were way worse and there were people that said sub withdrawls were way worse but i think with the sub you really have to be tapered to a low dose before jumping off. there are alot of testimonials from people who got down to barely a crumb of a pill and jumped off with minimal to no side effects.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:24 pm 
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I read a similar article by this doc in the past, and there are a couple of huge red flags going up for me. The first is when he says 2 mg Sub blocks almost all emotions. Really? How does one measure dose against emotion? In the other article I read he said 2 mg blocks 90% of emotions. How does one measure % of emotions? It's not scientifically credible. Another issue is the claim docs are out to get rich doing maintenance. I'm sure some are, but Dr. J and other docs who take insurance sure aren't.
As for the stacking effect, that's just another way of looking at the ceiling effect. Bupe builds up in our bodies so we don't feel highs and lows like we did on full agonists. That's really the basis of why it works.

All that being said, I DO believe that, like with any other long term drug, our bodies change over time to try to adapt to it. And these changes may not be for the better. For me, Im still struggling not to sleep 12-13 hours a day. And Ive gained 20lbs. It can be argued that Sub doesn't directly cause weight gain, but sleeping all day and being lethargic sure does. And my doc, like yours, denies it's the Sub. But I have to weigh the side effects against the very real possibility of relapse.
Life is full of compromise. I think Sub is a breakthrough drug. But I do believe there is such a thing as taking too much for too long for some people.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:27 pm 
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Just really tremendous stuff from everyone...I'm a lucky girl indeed. Wanted to emphasize that I have been a member of AA for over 20 years (haven't had a drink in 10+) and an NA member for over 15. So FYI I agree 100% that this pill alone will only get you halfway at the most where you want to be to experience true serenity. I'm in my late 40's and have warmed hundreds of seats in "The Rooms". Been to Rehab 3 times and the last 2 were for pain pills and I didn't last a week when I got out. I couldn't take the emotional crash. Even my shrink (NOT my suboxone doc) said "Opiates are the best antidepressant there is. But we can't prescribe them for obvious reasons." then a few years ago he started telling me about Suboxone and I got signed up with this maniac. I'm going to have to start looking into a lawsuit. Its not just this, it's everything with this guy, from giging it to my sister when she was still on Methadone...to telling me Suboxone is "absolutely NOT the cause of your Central Sleep Apnea" come to fond out it absolutely IS). This is a bad, bad doctor.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:06 pm 
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bdonahueweedman wrote:
Just really tremendous stuff from everyone...I'm a lucky girl indeed. Wanted to emphasize that I have been a member of AA for over 20 years (haven't had a drink in 10+) and an NA member for over 15. So FYI I agree 100% that this pill alone will only get you halfway at the most where you want to be to experience true serenity. I'm in my late 40's and have warmed hundreds of seats in "The Rooms". Been to Rehab 3 times and the last 2 were for pain pills and I didn't last a week when I got out. I couldn't take the emotional crash. Even my shrink (NOT my suboxone doc) said "Opiates are the best antidepressant there is. But we can't prescribe them for obvious reasons." then a few years ago he started telling me about Suboxone and I got signed up with this maniac. I'm going to have to start looking into a lawsuit. Its not just this, it's everything with this guy, from giging it to my sister when she was still on Methadone...to telling me Suboxone is "absolutely NOT the cause of your Central Sleep Apnea" come to fond out it absolutely IS). This is a bad, bad doctor.


Hey, congratulations on your success in sobriety from alcohol!! I'm right there with you as far as that goes. I was a RAGING drunk...I've got 5 years sober. It is VERY hard to find a truly good Suboxone doctor. As friendly as my current one is, he just doesn't know that much about Sub. He's a primary doctor and it's only one little part of what he does. I'm on a slew of waiting lists to get in with a psych, but I've gotten no calls from any of them. They're all full. I'm so thankful for the Internet. I don't know how else I could get the info I need!!

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:38 pm 
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Subdoc posted a few months ago about a large study, among others: In these expiraments, untreated opioid dependent people were compared against an equal number of opioid dependant people who were at a six month intensive recovery program. After the six months was over, opiod dependent people who had been in intensive treatment had the SAME remission rates as untreated people. Sorry, I don't know where in this forum he posted that, it may have been in his forum room.

A quote from Suboxdoc from February 24, 2008: "OK... practical problems to requiring 12 step attendance... My point (in case you zoned out) was that sitting through 12 step meetings, while not in the middle of a personal crisis at least at the start of 12 step exposure, may be a total waste of time. Ditto for attending 'recovery group therapy'. Those things work for one type of treatment, and I see little reason why they would be helpful for people on Suboxone."

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