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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:28 am 
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Welcome back Mama!!

So glad you had a nice vaca, and so PROUD of you that you have posted and been open and honest! Those types of habits will eventually help keep us sober, right? I feel grateful that we have found a place and people where we can be honest and receive nothing but non-judgmental support. I find it very liberating.

I do not blame you one bit for taking your taper more slowly if you have that option. Although my kids are older and more self sufficient, I do remember the "Terrific Two's" and the vast amounts of energy and patience it takes to be a good mother, which I know you are. Caring for my older (10 & 12 yrs) children has at times been challenging throughout this process, so I have much much respect for you knowing you are caring for a toddler who needs pretty much constant attention and vigilance.

So, "easy does it"; I'm sure you (and I) will cross that finish line successfully in our own time, and our children will be much better off in the long run for having even healthier, stronger and wiser Mamas.
Sending you a big hug through the "ether",
rca


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:42 am 
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Wow! Everyone's kind and supportive words are exactly what I needed to hear, as I was debating this decision for a while, and simultaneously beating myself up for not sticking with the jump. However, it's not just about me; a tiny little person is dependent on me and she is going to be home with me every other day now during the week. And yes; I was a little apprehensive to come back here and tell the truth, but then my brain was like "why the f--- not?!?!?!" This is the one place that I have completely spilled my guts about this one deep, dark secret that I've been harboring for so long, so I figured it would make no sense to stop being honest about what I'm doing now. Plus, I would only be hurting myself! Like rca said, it has been such a relief to find support that doesn't judge! And the ones that do--well they just don't get it!

So once again, thank you to everyone for your posts of encouragement and support! I don't want to sound cheesy or cliche, but this forum saved me, in a sense. I found it, and dumped all my secrets, fears, worries, anxieties, and hopes, which in turn resulted in my connecting with a handful of truly great people who have been guiding me, and holding my hand, through this process!

So back down to business: I have not taken anything yet today, but am going to start back at .375 for now, and my goal at that dose is to stay there until I feel okay with the minimum amounts of meds, then do another drop.


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:40 pm 
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All good stuff mama! Good for you for doing whats right for you!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:57 pm 
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yea mama, I think one of the biggest things is that you feel ok with this. you comfort level is what helped you taper and will again. do not rush yourself past comfort and risk it. you are getting down near the end. good for you


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:27 am 
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I personally do not recommend dropping any more than 10% at a time. Also, you shouldnt beat yourself up about the slip because I also stopped for awhile then ended up going back to tapering aftar about 8 days. What I have learned this new taper is the time you had where you were with no sub will help you later. I feel more resolved on what to expect because I lived it. I also correlate the withdrawal now much more "normal" and I believe that is because of all the "cold turkey" time I have. My brain is becoming more adapt to "real living" then complaining on every hurt.
I hope things continue smooth.


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:52 pm 
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Hi there! So I wanted to check-in with where I'm at currently as far as the doses/symptoms. It's actually kind of bizarre; I will take a .25 and it will hit me like a freight train, as in I feel REALLY good, my pupils are pinned more than normal, and I have that "ready to go" attitude. Then, hours later, it feels like someone flipped a switch suddenly and I experience some very minor heat/sweats and anxiety. I usually wait about an hour then take another .25 after I feel like that to see if they subside. I'm assuming this is because I had some "time off" from the jump? I'm not sure if I should hang here for a little while, or start off with an even smaller dose because .25 hits me pretty hard--just doesn't last. Actually, now that I'm saying this "out loud" it's probably better just to stay at .5 for a little bit until I don't experience those sudden w/d symptoms. I kind of had it stuck in my mind that because I had been off for almost a week that I wouldn't need much to start up with again. However, that's not really the case!

In other news, I appreciate all the posts/feedback in regard to this difficult decision I recently made. I honestly felt like a failure/quitter/can't hang, and blah blah, but it's the best decision for not only me, but for the one person in my life that deserves the absolute best out of everything--especially me! So, in conclusion, I will remain at .5 until I feel okay and confident enough to drop a little more. More to come...


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:05 pm 
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mama79 wrote:
Hi there! So I wanted to check-in with where I'm at currently as far as the doses/symptoms. It's actually kind of bizarre; I will take a .25 and it will hit me like a freight train, as in I feel REALLY good, my pupils are pinned more than normal, and I have that "ready to go" attitude. Then, hours later, it feels like someone flipped a switch suddenly and I experience some very minor heat/sweats and anxiety. I usually wait about an hour then take another .25 after I feel like that to see if they subside. I'm assuming this is because I had some "time off" from the jump? I'm not sure if I should hang here for a little while, or start off with an even smaller dose because .25 hits me pretty hard--just doesn't last. Actually, now that I'm saying this "out loud" it's probably better just to stay at .5 for a little bit until I don't experience those sudden w/d symptoms. I kind of had it stuck in my mind that because I had been off for almost a week that I wouldn't need much to start up with again. However, that's not really the case!

In other news, I appreciate all the posts/feedback in regard to this difficult decision I recently made. I honestly felt like a failure/quitter/can't hang, and blah blah, but it's the best decision for not only me, but for the one person in my life that deserves the absolute best out of everything--especially me! So, in conclusion, I will remain at .5 until I feel okay and confident enough to drop a little more. More to come...


Stayin' tuned in! I don't know what the half life of norbuprenorphine (a mostly full agonist metabolite of bupe) is, but it might explain the "hit like a freight train" effect. There is some controversy regarding norbupe having more to say at lower doses of bupe.


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:16 pm 
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no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:

Stayin' tuned in! I don't know what the half life of norbuprenorphine (a mostly full agonist metabolite of bupe) is, but it might explain the "hit like a freight train" effect. There is some controversy regarding norbupe having more to say at lower doses of bupe.


Ya, boop, I've heard the same re: the nor. I was just expecting it to be fairly easy to find a stable dose where I'm just functioning "normally", and not really feeling either the bupe or the w/d's. I have actually heard a lot of really odd stories regarding this stuff, especially long term use, and the effects it has on people. I remember reading a story a while back about a guy who said that it basically just quit working for him out of nowhere. However, I can't be certain that there weren't other factors to that story that he purposely omitted, but nonetheless, I believe the overall conclusion is that subs are f'ing tricky, and its effects are exclusive only to the person that is taking it. Well, enough about me, how's that arm healing? You still handling those pain meds like a champ??


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:29 pm 
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mama79 wrote:
no_boop_shoo_be_doop wrote:

Stayin' tuned in! I don't know what the half life of norbuprenorphine (a mostly full agonist metabolite of bupe) is, but it might explain the "hit like a freight train" effect. There is some controversy regarding norbupe having more to say at lower doses of bupe.


Ya, boop, I've heard the same re: the nor. I was just expecting it to be fairly easy to find a stable dose where I'm just functioning "normally", and not really feeling either the bupe or the w/d's. I have actually heard a lot of really odd stories regarding this stuff, especially long term use, and the effects it has on people. I remember reading a story a while back about a guy who said that it basically just quit working for him out of nowhere. However, I can't be certain that there weren't other factors to that story that he purposely omitted, but nonetheless, I believe the overall conclusion is that subs are f'ing tricky, and its effects are exclusive only to the person that is taking it. Well, enough about me, how's that arm healing? You still handling those pain meds like a champ??


Well, last visit to doc on Tuesday was encouraging, he thinks in two-four weeks, I should be able to begin some soft and easy physical therapy, to increase mobility of arm (so it doesn't heal all effed up with limited mobility). Pain meds? I'm managing fairly well. I'd like to stick to three a day but cant seem to manage it everyday (prescribed limit is four a day, as needed), I've had to take a dose when waking from pain in the wee hours, to get rest (which is also needed for healing process, so is part of the rationale of prescribing narcotics). Most healing takes place during sleep, as more energy can be devoted to it, as opposed to waking hours, when most energy is devoted to interacting with one's environment, and other processes. Some pain is needed anyway. Not the constant pain, but if I was totally numb, I wouldn't get the signal from shoulder to "STOP THAT!" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90OJkSFkrP4), if I do something that aggravates the injury, which is needed since it's not really all that immobilized in an arm sling. So I'll settle for a mostly dull ache rather than "comfortably numb". Also, it has Tylenol/acetaminophen in it as well as the narcotic analgesic, which can really fuck up one's liver if abused, so that's another "keep me in check" factor.


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:09 pm 
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You mentioned the liver...... as gross as this is, I used to snort regular percocets (yuck, all that chaulky filler), when I was desperate and had no money for a real oxy 80. Oh the thought of that now makes me gaaaaaaaaaag! Bwahaha what a moron I was back then. Lmfao


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:52 pm 
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trainer14 wrote:
You mentioned the liver...... as gross as this is, I used to snort regular percocets (yuck, all that chaulky filler), when I was desperate and had no money for a real oxy 80. Oh the thought of that now makes me gaaaaaaaaaag! Bwahaha what a moron I was back then. Lmfao


Yeah, snorting pills can be nasty! Unless it's something potent and comes in a teeny form. You might have actually filtered out a lot of the Tylenol/acetaminophen by snorting it though, who knows. It might not absorb as well as the narcotic ingredients, kinda like how naloxone doesn't absorb as well through mucous membranes as bupe does. I actually used subs nasally, but it didn't require much (so not a lot of nasty fillers clogging up my nose), whether the pill or the strip (the strips I melted in a few drops of water first, before snorting). Bupe has higher bioavailability that way, so my use of 1.5 nasally was probably roughly equal to about 2mg under the tongue. Even though using it that way is discouraged as using behavior, I think it is more about intent, and for me the intent was about the economics of getting more bupe bang for my buck.


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:16 pm 
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It didnt burn? Never took my subs but under the tongue even though the snorting was all part of the process for me in active addiction. Just the thought of it now gives me a headache. Hahaha yuck. Snorting the percs was quite the challenge and I was stuffed up forever. The oxy 80s were smooth. Then they came out with the ones you couldnt abuse and the second it hit your nose, it turned into a big booger. Bwahaha the not so good ole days


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:07 pm 
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trainer14 wrote:
It didnt burn? Never took my subs but under the tongue even though the snorting was all part of the process for me in active addiction. Just the thought of it now gives me a headache. Hahaha yuck. Snorting the percs was quite the challenge and I was stuffed up forever. The oxy 80s were smooth. Then they came out with the ones you couldnt abuse and the second it hit your nose, it turned into a big booger. Bwahaha the not so good ole days


Yeah, there was a slight burn to it but it didn't bother me. I actually came to enjoy it in a weird way, as I knew the sub would be kicking in shortly after.

Yeah, making 'abuse proof' narcotics is the new black in the pharmaceutical industry, because they can then obtain a patent on the delivery mechanism, that makes it non generic/higher priced, so they are continuously making more strides in that direction. Hence the booger oxy's. Makes them nearly impossible to inject as well, although some people who are very patient have a process of getting around it somehow, from what I remember reading on the infamous "bluelight" forums, but it still seemed like it wasn't worth the effort, because a lot of the oxy was lost in the process. It seemed better economically to just eat them and be patient (but they wanted the injection rush badly enough, to make the sacrifice worth it to them). They got really technical with pill injection, using special mircofilters (obtainable only on the Internet, as far as I know, unless one worked in a lab) at the end of syringes to filter out binders, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:48 pm 
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Holy shit! I could not imagine injecting a booger oxy, even after filtering like crazy. That stuff turned into rubber cement. It wasn't long after finding the original oxy 80s was damn near impossible, and if you did find them, the price was 120 per pill, that I quit. Had enough of that craptastic life. Bluck.


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:13 am 
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Hey Mama!! Just checking in to say how proud I am of your progress and how grateful I am for all your support and friendship. Keep on keeping on today!!
XO
RCA


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:30 am 
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rca1004 wrote:
Hey Mama!! Just checking in to say how proud I am of your progress and how grateful I am for all your support and friendship. Keep on keeping on today!!
XO
RCA


Thanks rca! Back atcha!

Well I'm pretty much back to the same routine: taking about .5 per day, needing some extra help getting to sleep, and waking up early with the sneezes. At least none of this is new to me! If everything goes well trough this week/end, I will drop again next Monday to .375, which is what I was at before my attempted jump, but not really stable there. I've been getting some sort of exercise almost everyday, and juicing quite a bit since my appetite is not really there. Even when I feel hungry, absolutely nothing sounds good! Just wanted to again thank everyone, and I mean all the oldies and newbies, for your support and posts! It really makes a difference! I'm not necessarily giving myself a time frame again, but I do have a "window" in about a month where I will have very little responsibilities for about a week, so what I am hoping (not PLANNING, hoping!!!) is I will have had plenty of time to get settled in at a comfortable low dose w/out hitting the comfort meds really hard, and feel ready to jump. I have learned that I cannot adhere to a so-called "plan" when it comes to coming off sub and I need to just go with what my body is telling me, and not my brain! So long as I am maintaining at a steady dose without making myself into a zombie w/ the other meds, then I think I will be okay.

Have a good one!


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:32 pm 
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HI mama..a question for you and everyone else about exercise while tapering..
DO you do your exercise while the sub is still fresh in your system (it seems to be the easiest time for it)..or when the sub wears off ..?

I'm at 1,5 mg atm and have been exercising lot and it really helped while on slightly bigger dosages of 3mgs..but the more I taper the more I can't get myself to go to the gym or outside..cold sweats make exercise unbearable..
Food also is a problem (Like you said NOTHING FEELS RIGHT EVEN WHEN I'M HUNGRY!)


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:06 pm 
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Exercise can seem hard during withdrawal symptoms, I could barely bring myself to go into the pool today (c-c-c-c-old). But once I started, it was fine, and I did my usual distance in the water.

I think it's a myth that exercising right after your dose makes the Subs (or Methadone) 'wear out' faster. I never noticed any diff, no matter how soon I exercised after taking my pill (or drink).

Mama congrats on your continuing taper plan, good stuff!

-- JI

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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:04 pm 
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fuser wrote:
HI mama..a question for you and everyone else about exercise while tapering..
DO you do your exercise while the sub is still fresh in your system (it seems to be the easiest time for it)..or when the sub wears off ..?

I'm at 1,5 mg atm and have been exercising lot and it really helped while on slightly bigger dosages of 3mgs..but the more I taper the more I can't get myself to go to the gym or outside..cold sweats make exercise unbearable..
Food also that'sblem (Like you said NOTHING FEELS RIGHT EVEN WHEN I'M HUNGRY!)


Okay, it was sort of a catch 22 with me whenever I was stabilizing at a dose. At times I couldn't bring myself to exercise very long, or not at all, until I took my dose. BUT, at times I would dose, get in a good workout, and feel really good for about an hour, then start experiencing some minor withdrawal symptoms shortly after. So, sometimes I would take just a tiny bit before exercise, then take the remainder of the dose after. I think as far as the sub "wearing off quicker" after a workout is one of those things could be different for everyone. At first I thought it was all in my head, but I started noticing it quite a bit & that's when I decided to take either 1/2, or maybe 1/4 of my usual morning dose (if exercising first thing in morning), workout, shower, then take the rest. But...thats just me!


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 Post subject: Re: Tapering
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:57 pm 
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johnny_ikon wrote:
Exercise can seem hard during withdrawal symptoms, I could barely bring myself to go into the pool today (c-c-c-c-old). But once I started, it was fine, and I did my usual distance in the water.

I think it's a myth that exercising right after your dose makes the Subs (or Methadone) 'wear out' faster. I never noticed any diff, no matter how soon I exercised after taking my pill (or drink).

Mama congrats on your continuing taper plan, good stuff!

-- JI


True..cold sweat does stop once you warm up.. but rapid heartbeat doesn't..To me it's the worst part if wd's..i guess it's a result of 9 yrs on sub where my bod is absolutely filled with bupe..Does anyone else have this?


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