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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:59 pm 
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I have found that it is not as easy to just drop a milligram off per month like I have been now that I am around 2 mgs of Sub per day. I started out on 8 and have worked my down to 2 over the course of about 8 months.. something like that. I am feel ready to come off of it soon. I have had no relapses. I am often very lazy though and I think some of this is because of the Sub, but I am also on Seroquel.

I am wondering if anyone has dropped .25 milligrams every 2 weeks or so while on these low doses? I am going by how my body feels basically. If I feel ready to drop, I try it. I do not beat myself up if I have to go back. It just seems like I need to use a bit of a different strategy now that my doses are getting so low. I should mention that I have lots of experience tapering, I was a very cyclical user (off and on, off and on) and would ALWAYS taper myself off of the full agonists.

Right now I am on 2 milligrams and plan on staying on 2 for at least two weeks. I am picking up my prescription today, and it very well may be last pickup. My doctor wrote me a two month script which was cool of him. He knows I am tapering and I am doing this on my own decision. No pressure from him.

I take Seroquel for sleep which is something I should mention, only 50 milligrams, but I want to get off of that stuff so bad. I am so drowsy from it the next day. It sucks.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Greetings,
I started my taper from about 8mg. starting in August. 2011. Once I got to 2 mg I too began to feel the tapering a little more with each drop. I would say, 2 weeks between drops is a good goal, however the lower I would go the longer I stayed at that new lower dose because it seemed to take longer to stabelize. At one point my Doctor switched me from the 8mg strips to the 2mg strips to make it easier to cut my doses. I ended up going from 1.25mg. down to .50 mg. without realizing it. THAT was a blessing in disguise. However, prior to discovering that I had mis-calculated my dose I had thoughts of increasing my dose because I was so friggen tired. But once I discovered my error, I was so excited that I went from 1.25mg down to .50, the symptoms suddenly were do-able...It DID talk longer to stabelize, like 3-4 weeks though. I am currently on .25mg in the morning & .125mg in the evening. I have been here for a while maybe 3 or more weeks. I just cant shake the lethargy.. I think you CAN do it. It is reasonable to say that (for me)the withdrawl symptoms are not painful or horrid, just sort of drawn out. I find the most annoying of them is the lethargy, tiredness, lack of motivstion. DO NOT be scared of the tapering. It is so do-able. Listen to your body. If after you taper & you find that you stabelize in 2 weeks, GREAT for you. Each decreass will be different in terms of symptoms. Some, you may not notice at all. I would start to notice on day 2-3 and the symptoms would subside by day 7-10 and I would give myself a few days to enjoy being stable. The lower ya go the more (I) seemed to feel it. Believe me I want OFF too. I just do not want to be friggen tired all the time... It is the worst (for me) SO good luck and keep posting.. Hope this helps you.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:37 pm 
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stephent, below 1.5 I made my reductions by .25mg, and stayed there for thirty days each. You can adapt to the physical symptoms usually within 7-10 days, but it takes longer for the brain to adjust to the new levels, that's the reason for the thirty day reductions. The most important thing though is to listen to your body, and not go to fast. The longer you stay at a given dose reduction, the more Sub that's stacked up in your system will be eliminated. For me it was when I got below 1.mg that the reductions got tougher, doable, but tougher. My last reduction was to .25mg and I stayed there for thirty days before my jump. The longer reductions paid off for me big time, days 3&4 were the worst, but still only felt like a cold coming on. By day 5 the fog had lifted and I felt like a new person, there were still days beyond that I would tire in the afternoons, and some sleep issues remained, but the worst of it was over.

My Dr. rx'd me for some Clonidine and Ambien to help to help with the sleep issues and some Ativan for the anxiety, but I only needed them for the first few days. Good luck with your taper and remember it's a journey, not a race. However you do it I wish you well, this is just the way that worked best for me. Hopefully other's will chime in here with more ideas for you.

Mike


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:03 pm 
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Thanks for the replies you two. I agree that I need to listen to my body, in no way do I feel that this is forced upon. In fact, if I wanted to stop here and stay on 2 mgs right now, my doctor would be totally fine with that. Tapering Suboxone is different from all my other taper experiences (trust me, there have been many, I am/was the master at getting off, the problem was staying off) in that it feels as if each drop in does can be variable. My drop from 2.50 to 2.25 was much more difficult than my drop from 2.25 to 2.00. I still have some slight anxiety, but I think I should be good to go on Monday. One thing that I have found helpful was to do a few days of every-other day dosing. Example 2.00 then 2.25 then 2.00 then 2.25.

I am taking my dose all in one time. Often the late morning to mid-day. I know I might have to play around with this when I get really low.

I know I can get off of this and I know it is time. I also know that I simply cannot use another opiate (or hard drug) ever again in my life. Over the weekend I had two beers and it didn't feel anywhere near what it used too. I have never had to "force" (wrong word but I guess it describes it) one down. It took me over and hour to drink one beer.

The tiredness and lack of motivation are an issue. I am underemployed and will be running out of insurance soon. I know I could be looking for jobs more but its often difficult for me to "get going" in the morning. I am on Seroquel as well, which is probably part of the issue. It usually takes me a few cups of coffee, a protein shake and my Wellbutrin to really get moving.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:12 pm 
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Taper57 wrote:
The most important thing though is to listen to your body, and not go to fast. The longer you stay at a given dose reduction, the more Sub that's stacked up in your system will be eliminated. For me it was when I got below 1.mg that the reductions got tougher, doable, but tougher. My last reduction was to .25mg and I stayed there for thirty days before my jump. The longer reductions paid off for me big time, days 3&4 were the worst, but still only felt like a cold coming on. By day 5 the fog had lifted and I felt like a new person,


This is great advice, I want to highlight it for others that may read this thread. When I create or respond to a thread I think back to all the times I was scouring the internet for any and all information possible.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Trying to get down to 1.5 and its going okay. I need to keep track of this though, because I know a day or two I have had to add an extra .25. I have had a lot of stomach problems the last few days and that is strange for me. I hardly ever had stomach issues during opiate withdrawal, for me its always been sleep+anxiety+depression (not with sub, just when tapering off of full agonists).

Going to a job fair right now, so its going to be interesting. I am way underemployed right now. Frankly, my college degree feels useless. Things are starting to get better and I will have a full time job soon.

Also need to mention I have been on the nicotine patch for 5 days.... I am not much of a smoker, but I use snus


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Well the nicotine patch has to wait, I just cannot reduce my seroquel and sub and detox from nicotine at the same time. I am actually feeling okay a 1.5 milligrams for the first time. I did have two beers at dinner last night (craft beers, I don't drink the massed produced crap like Bud or Miller), so they might have masked some anxiety but it really didn't feel like they did. Sleep was okay. I am noticing it is much easier to actually get out of frickin bed with the lower dose of seroquel. I should be ready to stop the seroquel completely in like two weeks or so.

One thing that does suck is my appetite has been absolutely awful. I am just not hungry and it makes exercising hard. I am a skinny guy but have worked very hard to put on some good muscle mass and am probably going to lose a bit of it. Oh well though, I will be able to hit the gym even harder once I finally get off of this stuff.

I want to make it clear that I have nothing against Sub and would have no problem being a long term/life time maintenance user but my length of use and habit doesn't really warrant it.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:34 pm 
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Going to try to go down to 1.25 today. We will see how that works. Will probably alternate back and forth between 1.25 and 1.5 for a few days. Might try to alternate between 1 and 1.25.

I have noticed that the drops seem very arbitrary. Basically, I have no idea how bad they will be. For me, 2.0 to 1.75 was very difficult. But 1.75 to 1.50 was pretty easy. Who knows.

I feel like my testosterone is really coming back, I have never been a test fueled type of guy, but I have been a bit of a horndog lately. I also am "feeling" my emotions a little more, good ones and bad ones. Seroquel is down to 25 milligrams.

I have been feeling restless legs more frequently. Pretty weird stuff. I walk my dog daily which helps, but I think I am going to have to get on the elliptical (I told you guys I was/am a big fitness buff, I even waste my money like one!) before bed.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 am 
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stephent wrote:
Going to try to go down to 1.25 today. We will see how that works. Will probably alternate back and forth between 1.25 and 1.5 for a few days. Might try to alternate between 1 and 1.25.

I have noticed that the drops seem very arbitrary. Basically, I have no idea how bad they will be. For me, 2.0 to 1.75 was very difficult. But 1.75 to 1.50 was pretty easy. Who knows.

I feel like my testosterone is really coming back, I have never been a test fueled type of guy, but I have been a bit of a horndog lately. I also am "feeling" my emotions a little more, good ones and bad ones. Seroquel is down to 25 milligrams.

I have been feeling restless legs more frequently. Pretty weird stuff. I walk my dog daily which helps, but I think I am going to have to get on the elliptical (I told you guys I was/am a big fitness buff, I even waste my money like one!) before bed.


I found the low drops to be really arbitrary too. Actually, super arbitrary. It isn't like the higher doses, where you maybe feel it for a few days and then it's basically okay. However, at least for me, just because one drop was super tough didn't mean the next one was. 1.25 to 1 totally sucked and then going to .75 was pretty painless. Very weird! Cutting in half from 1/8 to 1/16 wasn't tough either, and that is 50%.

You're being reasonable and diligent, though, and it will work in the end. Aren't you impressed with yourself? :D

The only good thing about RLS is that it goes away. :D :D

laddertipper

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First you take a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes you. ~F. Scott Fitzgerald


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 Post subject: I can relate
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:07 pm 
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I never really felt WD's from the larger drops. I went from 8mgs to 4 to 2 to one within a month and did not feel anything bad until I got under 1mg. I am at .3mg now. I did .5 mg for about 6 days then .4 for a day but the second day I only took.3 and got away with it. I am going to stay on .3 for another 5 days to make sure I am stable then drop to .25. Hopefully that is not a hard drop.
Back to the relating part, when I dropped to a low dose of sub (below 2 mg) I became a huge horndog too. It was very comforting to feel like my old self after three years of little to no deisre. Was afraid I had just gotten old (I just turned 36) but apparently that is not the case.

As for the REstless legs, I have tried homeopathic stuff and most was worthless but I think the Hylands Nerve tonic helped a little. Not a ton but enough to take the edge off. Strangely their restful leg pills were of no help. Good luck and keep updating. It helps everyone, I know it does me.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:18 am 
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Thanks for the replies guys, just want to let you all know that I am doing fine... I am at one milligram now, getting ready to go to .75 for a few days soon then to .5 I am feeling lots of fatigue, and it seems like it doesn't let up (it used to at higher doses, I would be fatigued for a week and then "feel fine", though I suspect I was always a bit lazy.) But I feel like this is the price we pay, and to be honest I have been more active recently.

I haven't been on this board enough lately, I need to do so. So physically I feel okay. Money wise, things are going to get rough but it could be WAY WORSE. I thankfully have a very supportive family that charges me a little rent and gives me a place to stay while I pull myself together. I take care of things around the house, am the primary caretaker for the dog and also work a part time job. I do have a college degree and want badly to have something full time. I live in a very rough rust belt city though, with some of the highest unemployment in the nation. This is hard, but I have seen how bad it can get for people and am very grateful for what I have been given.

Anyways enough of that rambling. I will try to update this thread more often. I know that when I was in WD from both Sub and other opiates I really liked reading WD threads.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:36 am 
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Just for the record (because this might be brought up by web searches in the future):

I think when you get to this low of a dose, you have to be flexible with the time. In my opinion its best to go according to how you feel, not a time frame. Who knows, maybe it is an individual thing. I could see some people feeling better thinking ("Okay I have two weeks on this and then the next I will be down to blah")... that isn't how I function though.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Stephant, yes that rang true for me. I was at .125 for the longest. I felt so friggen tired, once I started feeling better I wanted to rest there for a while. I was at 0.0625 for a shorter duration. Really listen to yur body and do not srop unless yu are really stable on the new low dose. it is essential to the success of the next drop > IMO. How are you now? You are getting close. If you practice patients YOU ARE successful. Hoping you are feeling good. Blessings stephant


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:58 pm 
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Going to try to go with .5 today... going to try to take advantage of the Hydroxyzine... I have found that it often only works for 3 weeks at the most before you need to take a break. We will see. If I start to struggle I might go with something close to .65. Honestly, while this taper is difficult, it is nothing compared to some of the quick tapers I have done with full agonists. Having a beer helps, but if you cannot control yourself and keep it to 2 at the most then do not even try it. I would imagine waking up even slightly hungover could have a big impact.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:10 pm 
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I think that is really a good call to drop just a little. It really helps in the end. IMO. I have NOT been free from wd and I do notice either anxiety or strange sensations on my body, skin temp flux maybe or just the heebie jeebies. Still sneezing but i like.... I am cold cold cold...but this is temp and I feel all around good. I will be thinking about you and looking for your posts. You are getting close. Good luck again friend Cheers


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 Post subject: I am not alone now.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:48 pm 
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I am so glad I found this forum! I just started to taper down from 12mg and have made it to 8mg in two weeks. I can't tell you how much it helps reading everyone's experiences. I don't feel alone anymore.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:04 pm 
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Getting ready to try .25-35ish tomm. Doctor wants to see me this Friday and I am going to talk about Clonodine. The Hydroxyzine helps, but I have been cutting back on it in order to allow it to be more effective when I take the final plunge. Took a little bit more then my usual .50 today, I have found this helps me. You have to be careful with this though, I had a buddy that would do this and he wouldn't take the drop the next day. This obviously causes problems. However, I have not found that a one day increase in dosage throws you off, especially taking less the next day.

I want to say this, while this has been annoying, it has not been difficult nor has it been horrible. I read horror story after horror story about Suboxone. Seems that this comes from people in the 12 step camp or getting themselves involved with it and being told they need to get off of Sub to be a "dry drunk/addict". So this leads them to jump off unprepared without a taper. I also often read people that just get upset that they are taking Sub and stop. Then they complain about how bad it is and how long it lasts... of course it does.

Suboxone is a great tool and a huge help. You have to want to do the work. I have found that my cravings have not been bad at all and this includes the other stuff I used to dabble with.... You can do it. I struggled with a relapse cycle for close to a decade and finally feel as if I have moved on. I am in some pretty intensive therapy right now dealing with the "core" person that I am. I saw an addiction counselor for about a year and that helped. However, after a certain point you have to deal with the real issues, often the drugs are just the tip of the iceberg. For many of us, we have wounds that go far back to childhood that we have been hiding from. I am finally learning to deal with my emotions without trying to self-medicate.

Part of this is not beating myself up because of past mistakes and forgiving myself. I am not my past. I had some pretty rough spots in my life, using was not the best way to deal with the fallout from it, but I am not angry at myself for doing so. I was young and could not understand the consequences.

In a later post I will go over some of the more physical stuff. I just know that people will read this and need to let them know that Suboxone and tapering it have not been the horrible ordeal that is often described... now the caveat is that this might apply to only me, myself and I (great song btw) but I feel I need to share this.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Dropped to around .35 yesterday. Feel okay, but as I stated earlier, I took a pre-load dose that might still be slightly in my system. So far today I have taken .25, and I usually wait until 3ish to 5ish to take it. We will see how I feel.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Hey stephant, how are you doing? I hope you are kicking butt and making waves. Just wanted to check in with you... Best wishes guy


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:55 am 
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I am doing pretty good, I am getting pretty dang close to taking the final plunge.

Want to go over some of the mental stuff that I get:

1. Anxiety - Nothing major, but it manifests very physically. Jittery, nervous energy (CNS overactive)

2. Depression/Fatigue - I put these two together. They tend to play off of each other. I do not feel like doing anything so I lay about. This leads me to get upset with myself because I am wasting my time. The thing I have to fight is me getting actually angry at myself for "putting myself in this position".
---

Need to mention that this is nothing compared to what I have been through with the full agonists.


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