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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:09 am 
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I am taking Amy's advice and starting new thread. I let myself get out of control and now I find myself abusing my medication. I need help and support to get back to a reasonable dose and feel human again.

First I will answer Amy's questions...

How much sub are you getting from your doctor?I get 24 mg a day from the doctor

What dose does your doctor think you are on? I was honest with him in November and he saw me 2 days early because I was going to run out. He knows what is happening in my life but urged me to get on track because there was no need to take so much, even for pain. The answer would be he thinks I am back to 24 mg. Prior to November it wasn't a big problem because I had a good amount of sub saved.

[b]I assume you are getting extra sub from other sources, so how much do you have to taper down to in order to get back on the dose your doctor thinks you are on? I go to the doctor 12/29. If I get down to 16 mg a day this week I should just have enough.

I am finding it very difficult to taper down right now. I can get myself in a panic worrying about "how I will feel". Yesterday I got to 20 mg. Felt no different but did have to stop myself from thinking about taking more.

I am so stressed because I am trying to keep things in check. I am older and have pain issues AND I have had custody of my 9 month old grandson since August 2014. I work FT, he has to go to day care and I feel very guilty about that. My own kids didn't go to day care so it's a new deal for me. It's so hard to get us both ready in the mornings because my hands are full of arthritis. I am slow getting him changed and dressed and I get very sad I am like this. I never thought I wouldn't be able to snap his tops and pants.

More guilt because I have 3 other grandchildren and I can' spend much time with them. I have 3 month old grandson and I can count on one hand how many times I have held him. We (baby & I) go over and visit but my hands are full with the 9 month old.

I need to have support to taper down which is why I came back.

Luckily I have a good friend helping me and without him I would feel so alone.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:50 pm 
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Hey Em,

I'm so happy that you took Amy's advice on this. I really think this is going to help you. We are so lucky to have Amy here sharing what she has learned with us for free!

I think your best bet with this is to really think about what you are using in an intellectual way. You said above that you felt no different on your 20mg dose yesterday. You only have to get down by 4mg today in order to be at your appropriate dose. 16mg is still way above the ceiling level, and I would be totally shocked if you felt any physical symptoms. That being said, I know it's not the physical part that is the hardest. I really like what Amy suggested about preparing your dose for the next day the night before. Did you give that any thought? Maybe you could try letting your friend that is helping you hold your meds for you and only give you enough meds for a day or two at a time. It may be inconvenient, but if you can't controll it yourself it can definitely help. That's the way I had to do it when I found myself in this situation. I absolutely could not do it myself. But, after a few weeks of re-setting the cycle I was good.

I also just wanted to address your concerns about your grandchildren. Em, every mother has guilt. Please don't let it get you down too much. Just look at what you have sacrificed for your son and your grandson. Not every mother in the world would have done that. It's easy to say we would, but you are living it! That is something special my friend. I would bet anything that your other children understand how hard this whole thing has been on you. I know you wish you could do the same for all of the babies, but you are doing all you can right now. Just focus on getting yourself well. Maybe your son will see how hard you are working and follow your example. How wonderful would that be?

I hope you have a good day today. Please keep us posted when you have time.

Q

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:37 pm 
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Where would your grandson be without you right now? In foster care with the state. You are making a sacrifice that few other people would make! I'm not God, although I believe in God, but I think God would tell you to cut yourself some slack and stop feeling guilty!! There are plenty of kids who grow up in daycare and turn out awesome, with incredible gifts and talents. When you stayed home with your children you weren't doing this by yourself! Didn't you have a husband who supported you and helped out here and there with manly house duties?? You have NO reason to feel guilty about your grandson being in daycare.

Let's also remember that your grandson was being physically abused by his mother!! If she was willing to hurt her son there is no doubt in my mind that she was neglecting him too. You have saved him, not only from the trauma of being abused, but also from having attachment disorder!! Do you remember finding out about those Romanian orphanages in the 1990's that held warehoused babies who were never held or interacted with?? And then when people tried to adopt these toddlers they had trouble forever because the children had never learned how to form an attachment to a loved one. You have saved your grandson from that!! I'm sitting here with tears rolling down my face just thinking of how he could have ended up if you hadn't rescued him!

I'm sorry that your chronic pain is making you think that you're "less than". First, would it be possible to wake up a little early and take some anti-inflammatory meds before you'll have to get your grandson up? Something to kick in before you have to start using your hands heavily? If that's not feasible then think of it this way. Do you think your grandson cares that he may not be 100% snapped up? Do you think that the people who take care of him during the day judge you for that? If I were those people, and I was once upon a time, I would admire you so much for what you have sacrificed and the pain that affects you every day. I would want to help you, not judge you.

About your other grandchildren... it's never equal, is it? I have 4 granddaughters and a grandson on the way via my husband's grown kids. It's hard for me to see them equally or spend time equally. 2 of the girls live in CA, so I don't often see them, but they still know I love them very much! Right now you're at a really intensive time with your 9 month old grandson. Think about when the children get a little older though. My cousins are some of my best friends! They will be running around with each other and you will have plenty of time for cuddles with each child! If your daughter or daughter-in-law is feeling like you're not being fair, please send her to me. I will give her a good spanking then talk some sense into her. If she is pressuring you at all then she is being majorly immature. Other family members should be trying to ease your burden, not add to it!

Good job on staying down at 20mg yesterday! That's improvement! Q is absolutely right! If you can enlist your friend to hold some of your sub, that would be helpful. If you can't do that then at least prepare your day's sub the night before. That way you're thinking about it when you prepare it. If you take some without really thinking about it, it will be easier for you to take too much.

Please try to come here every day, even if it's just to write one line. It's important to stay accountable and stay focused. We are here for you!!!

Hugs,
Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:50 pm 
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Q and Amy basically said it all tiki. I too want to let you know how much I admire what doing for your grandson. Even with all the issues that you're going through, you're still making a difference in that precious baby's life. What an amazing gift you're giving him. .. your time, love, and attention. I hope you're able to find a way to get the arthritis pain in your hands to at least a tolerable level. My mom also had painful arthritic hands and when she babysat my kids for me years ago when they were babies, I always made sure I packed the tbaby tshirts that weren't the onesie kind with snaps, just t shirts and pull on pants instead of things with lots of snaps. She said it made dressing and undressing then easier for her, idk if that's feasible for you, but they do make some really cute baby clothes without all the buttons and snaps, heck they even make sleeper gowns for baby boys. I always used those because it was easier and faster to change a diaper in the middle of the night. Those sleepers with all the snaps are cute but I can see how they'd be difficult for you to deal with. Anyway, just an idea.

As far as lowering your dose down, it's definitely progress that you only took 20 mgs, and like Q said, physically you shouldn't feel any different if you get down to 16mgs. You seem determined to get down to your rx'd 16, and once you get used to taking only that physically, psychologically you will also get accustomed to that dose as well. Our minds can really mess with us at times, and make us feel the need to reach for something when we're feeling bad or stressed, even though we know we won't feel any different. I like the idea of preparing your dose the night before, or having someone who you trust to give you your rx'd dose, until you've gotten used to taking only that dose. It takes a few weeks for something to become a routine, and I absolutely think you'll do it Tiki!

Dr. Junig had some great tips on how to use distraction methods when you feel the need to dose to help extinguish the addictive behavior of taking something when we feel we need to. You can find them at his blog http://www.suboxonetalkzone.com. using the search feature, enter the words distraction, or once daily dosing, and you should find the entries.

I wish I could've been more helpful, but wanted to offer my support, and also let you know how admirable I think what you're doing is.

Lizzie


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 9:00 am 
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Just want to say that I did post last night- my daily check in ,but it's not here....


Thank you Qhorse & Amy & Lizzie for the support and suggestions. It really makes a difference for me. When I get that "who cares" or "just a little more" thought, it helps having you gals in my corner. I stop and think, I have people giving up precious time to support me I really should do I as said. Thank you again.

Yesterday I was feeling really stressed, have so much to do but not enough time. I prayed to my higher power for signs that there are still good people around and that I find the strength & support to get back down to my rx dose. I was in the local kmart buying a fake Christmas tree for the baby. My son really wanted a "real" one but I don't have the patience for one this year. Anyway, I saw a tiny live tree in a mans cart so I asked him where he got it, he said outside, as I started to head in that direction he took his tree out of his cart and put it in mine. I was so thankful...now my son gets his real tree but I won't have the needles all over the place :D . That act of a stranger's kindness showed me my prayers were being heard. A few hours after that I got another strangers act of kindness in the form of additional support...My entire attitude changed after these experiences. I believe in signs and those were so direct they can't be ignored.

So I just barely hung in at 20 mg but feel stronger today about taking the same amount today. I have to say it's a whole lot harder than I thought it would be. The bad side of my brain is much louder than my good side right now. I need an off switch for that bad brain :lol:

Thank you again. Your posts and support mean the world to me..


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:32 am 
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Oh Tiki,

That post made my day! I'm actually on the verge of tears thinking about how much that simple act from a total stranger meant for you...

I know this is really hard, Em. But you can do it! Lizzie's suggestions about the distraction methods brought back to mind something my addiction counselor told me. He had me make out a list of like 25 things I could do to distract myself when I got a craving. His idea was that it helped to have those things pre-planned so that when it hits you don't have to wonder what to do with yourself. He also suggested that they be things you actually enjoy doing, this way it's like you are rewarding yourself for overcoming the cravings.

Just a suggestion. :D

Hope your day is good again today!

Q

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:40 am 
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Tiki,unfortunately I certainly cant give you any advice on your taper but I do wanna let you know I'm cheering for you and know you can do this .. Even though I'm not in a great place right now your post made me smile its nice to know there are still a few decent caring people out there and from what little i have read of you seems like if anyone deserves kindness its you .. Congrats on your progress


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 10:43 am 
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Thank you everyone! I need support because my head/mind/thoughts are focused on FEAR..silly I know but that's honestly what's going on.

So far I have managed to stick to 20 mgs....sure sounds like a lot when I read it. Today I go to 16 mgs.

I have a busy day that will keep me with people so I am less likely to put a film in my mouth.

Hope everyone has a good Saturday


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:12 pm 
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I'm thinking of you, Em! You can do this! Today's 16mgs will help convince you that 16 mg is a reasonable dose for you! It will take care of your pain and your cravings.

I hope you have a great day and remember that we are all pulling for you!!

Hugs,
Amy

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 10:05 am 
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So.....I failed to continue my taper to 16 mg. I could say it was the holidays etc but it's just me. It isn't a comlete bust because i have enough sub to get to my appointment tomorrow but i am so mad at myself. I am back to 24 mg a day. :(


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:02 am 
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Tiki,
I think "failed" is a bit harsh, although i get it that you feel this way..
Look back and ask yourself Why you felt you had to have the xtra sub this week. This is new for you,you Were at 32mgs! So your at 24! So what that you arent at 16mgs yet, you can yet there!!
The hollidays are or can be a stresser, we all feel it. So dont be hard on yourself in this process.
You have some changes already. Well build on that. You know what I mean.
Its easy for us to say, Hey just drop it down", ya wont feel a thing",its all mental", and maybe it is, but it sure seems real..

My 2 cents , keep trying..

Razor


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:06 am 
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Hey there, what'sall this talk about failing? As long as you're trying, and you keep getting up every time you get knocked down..... you've not failed in my book. Ok, so you've had a setback. ...that happens! You're here talking about it, and trying to sort through it, and that means that you're still trying, so definitely not failing! I have no doubt you can get back down to the 16mgs you're prescribed. You did it before, if only for a day or so, and I remember reading how great you felt about that. May I ask, did something happen that caused you extra stress? Sadness?
Bottom line is you CAN do this. If there was anything about this setback that you can learn from, then use it, but if not. .. just leave it in the past, don't beat yourself up for it, and start over. Make your goal for today 20 mgs, etc. Like you did before to get to 16mgs. .. bit know that as long as type trying you're not a failure!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 9:19 am 
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Thank you Everyone for the support. It has made a difference for me. I feel better today & stayed at 22 mg yesterday.

I saw my sub doc yesterday and told him what was going on. He is one of the nicest people i have ever met. He gave me a pep talk and told me i could text him if i start taking more again. He knows what is going on in my life and has even met the baby - that's the kind of man he is. I am so lucky.

So back with a better attitude, not feeling so alone anymore. I try to read here every morning but can't always post.

Happy Tuesday


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:09 pm 
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I'm so glad you are feeling better today. Our minds can have such an effect on how we feel, either positive or negative, try to harness the positivity and make it work for you. :D

Keep in mind this is a process, a journey, you haven't failed...you have just come to a rough spot in the road. What counts is how you finish the journey.

We're all rooting for you Tiki!

Q

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:27 pm 
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Qhorse

I really try to keep the positive but sometimes i am so overwhelmed I let those negative thoughts in. I am on a great roll right now. I am posting for support but also for me; To be able to read that i was in a good place. (and can be again) I didn't give up.

So.... I am really pleased that i took just 16 mg today. I took 8 mg in the morning, 4 mg about 1 & the smaller 4 mg piece i had.at 4 I had no desire to take more. When i thought about it i told myself to wait 5 minutes and then take it...but i never did :D

Tomorrow i will do the same since i know it works just fine. I really have to focus on being prepared if my mind tells me i need more.

The support of this board makes a BIG difference for me. Some really Great people here!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:42 pm 
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Thats great to see and hear tiki.
If we can distract ourselves in the work of the day,the thought or urge to reach for more just doesn't come.
Ill guess this is what happened today with you.

Best of luck the rest of the week..


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:48 am 
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My update: since 12/30 I have been able to stay between 16 & 20 mg. I am using mg's because 20 sounds a whole lot more than two and a half strips. Such a mind game for me. I had a really rough day on Jan 1 but i did reach out for support and stayed within my dose. I am so thankful for my supportive friends, both new and old!

I am happy I found this forum because as i read others threads i often find things in common.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:33 am 
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The power of Peer Support is unmatched..
So very important to have others on board.
Tiki, your indeed moving forward.
Congrats . . .

Razor R


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:28 pm 
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Way to go, Tiki!! I'm proud of you for your hard work!

I am super glad that this forum is here for you when you need it. <3

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:44 pm 
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GOOD JOB TIKI..you are doing great..Look how far you have already come even with working full time and taking care of that little grandson of yours and still sticking it out and not taking more..Good for you keep it up


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