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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:29 pm 
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Hi to everyone from a European longtime sub user...So what was the hardest stage of the taper for you guys? 2mg....1,5....1mg...lower?

After 9yrs on sub I've never been this low! I'm still not having sleep problems since I rather make it through the day with the sweating, yawning, RL's..but then keep my 0,75 for before bed so I can sleep normally..
Personally the worst part for me is waking up in the middle of the night knowing I will not sleep anymore..that is the part where I'm most vulnerable to just reaching for my sub box and taking that extra dose.

So 1,5 was for me the worst part yet..I really had to stay disciplined to keep it up.. but then all of a sudden I feel like I could go really long without sub..just like that..so I'm cutting down today..wish me luck..it's going down!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:57 pm 
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Welcome! For me getting any lower than 2 mg was impossible so I jumped off subs there. I could handle the taper from 16 mg all the way down to 2 mg like nothing but then got stuck. Got sick of the whole process and just stopped cold turkey.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:06 pm 
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trainer14 wrote:
Welcome! For me getting any lower than 2 mg was impossible so I jumped off subs there. I could handle the taper from 16 mg all the way down to 2 mg like nothing but then got stuck. Got sick of the whole process and just stopped cold turkey.


Trainer Hi.. I am aware of your story..but you seem to be one in a 100 people who were able to do that..
Having been on sub for so long I doubt I would have the strength..patience..for that..
Right now I have to hang on for another 2 hours before my dose...and I stink like s...have to gather strength for everything I do..but reading the posts from you and a couple of other positive stories it really helps.. Before I would just say..No this is too much...and live in the moment..regret it but keep dosing the same. Now it's like..now or never for me..


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Time has a way of passing us by and before we realize it, months have gone by. Believe it or not, I was once convinced I was a sub lifer. I convinced myself that I could never go a day, a week, a month without subs. Then I started to realize that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life taking subs just to conquer a 3 year oxy habit that I ditched 5 years ago. The subs were a life saver no doubt but I truly didnt need them anymore. I put the time, effort and work into changing my life, getting away from my old life and habits and reckless thought patterns. 5 years later I felt ready. I found I was living the same lie with subs. I would panic on my taper, take more, run out early, suffer 2,3,4 days of wds before my next dr appointment and then do it all over again the next month. I had enough and gritted my teeth and pushed through it. The wds, shitty days, etc are behind me and I am grateful and happy I sucked it up and got it done.

you will know when you are ready, really ready and amaze yourself at what you can do!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:19 pm 
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For me personally when I dropped down to 1mg I had major issues with anxiety/heart palpitations and high blood pressure. I was so concerned that I went to my general doctor (my sub doc is no longer practicing)...that appointment didn't go so well, as soon as I explained I was tapering off suboxone the doctor treated me like I had three heads....she gave a drug test I'm sure to check if I was using amphetamines since that would explain my symptoms and when it came back negative she said there wasn't anything she could do. Oh and she said anxiety isn't a withdrawal symptom. My heart rate was 140 and my blood pressure was 120/99. I was devastated after that appointment....I cried the whole way home. I had suffered through this for 2 weeks before I had my appointment and I had prayed for any kind of relief possible....so when I was mistreated and left with 0 relief I didn't know what to do :(. It was the hardest thing I've done but I just pushed through it. I didn't taper down any further until I felt at least a little better...it took a month. I cut out caffeine from my diet and tried to exercise....that helped too. Other than that I never really felt other withdrawal symptoms. Only when I dropped from 16mg to 8 the first week I began my taper. For several days I had the cold sweats, body aches, etc. until I dosed each morning. But honestly if you can just push through it and focus on the end result, it's all worth it! I recently jumped from .25-.5mgs a week ago and for five days I felt very minimal withdrawals....I was able to clean, wash dishes, do laundry, cook, take care of my daughter. And I even went canoeing on day 2. I really recommend tapering low....I've heard some people say it makes no difference, but from my own personal experience it makes a world of difference. Good luck!!! Keep your head up!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:26 pm 
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trainer14 wrote:
Time has a way of passing us by and before we realize it, months have gone by. Believe it or not, I was once convinced I was a sub lifer. I convinced myself that I could never go a day, a week, a month without subs. Then I started to realize that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life taking subs just to conquer a 3 year oxy habit that I ditched 5 years ago. The subs were a life saver no doubt but I truly didnt need them anymore. I put the time, effort and work into changing my life, getting away from my old life and habits and reckless thought patterns. 5 years later I felt ready. I found I was living the same lie with subs. I would panic on my taper, take more, run out early, suffer 2,3,4 days of wds before my next dr appointment and then do it all over again the next month. I had enough and gritted my teeth and pushed through it. The wds, shitty days, etc are behind me and I am grateful and happy I sucked it up and got it done.

you will know when you are ready, really ready and amaze yourself at what you can do!


Very similar with me..a 3 yr heroin habit..that was replaced with almost a decade of subs..although they seem like a chain around my neck they did help and did it's work in terms of changing my life and learning how to live a normal life..but the time has come my friend and I am ready..sick of inability to sleep and sleeping late..sick of being saped of strength..not able to socialise properly..withdrawn into my own little world.. Its the same story with many of us.. I have been saying for yrs that I am ready..but I only know I am readY now so there's no thing that can get me off this path..
Time does pass very slowly though. .and I'm trying to keep busy and lead a normal routine..but it is challenging no doubt..
Tnx for your support


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:37 pm 
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Sh*t got weird when I got down to around 1.5 mg/day, a lot of emotional turmoil, and days here and there of physical withdrawal symptoms like fatigue (cement legs).

Once I got below .75 mg/day it got easier, and where I'm at now at .15 mg/day, it's been easier still. Though on day 3 of this dose (today), I am feeling pretty fatigued, though that could be related to minimal sleep, which has been a constant at the lower doses.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:49 pm 
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johnny_ikon wrote:
Sh*t got weird when I got down to around 1.5 mg/day, a lot of emotional turmoil, and days here and there of physical withdrawal symptoms like fatigue (cement legs).

Once I got below .75 mg/day it got easier, and where I'm at now at .15 mg/day, it's been easier still. Though on day 3 of this dose (today), I am feeling pretty fatigued, though that could be related to minimal sleep, which has been a constant at the lower doses.

-- JI


Johnny tnx for that..Exactly where I'm now..but the fact that you and quite a lot of others on this forum say that it does get easier below 1mg gives me courage.. I didn't get to that stage of being unable to sleep yet..but I'm ready even though I don't have any wd medicine or sleeping supplements..


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:03 pm 
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Clonidine can help with sleep, though it makes me fuzzy-brained, and I don't like taking it unless absolutely necessary.

Truth is, it's really hard to predict Subs' effect on people, some people taper slowly and seem to walk off the drug without a look back. Other people have a different experience. I'm not sure I'm out of the woods completely, myself.

It's good to be prepared (having stuff like Clonidine around), read up on the experience of other people who finished their taper, and be sure to have some support -- I've got friends who know what's going on with me and are checking in, and I do a lot of 12 step work to stay grounded.

-- JI

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:48 pm 
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Day 2..1,25mg

Expected for it to be worse than it is..I guess I expected the same thing as happened at 1,5mg, but it's as if I'm already used to the slight wd's..(of which I was terrified for 9 years).
I am starting to notice the fact that my head/mind feels sort of fresher than before..so that's a definite reward to just go ahead with the taper.. Don't want to think too early that the worse has past bcs it's probably not..but atm things seem very positive! I hope I can go down to 1mg in 3 days if things don't change..what took me so long!!! I could have/ should have done this 3 yrs ago! I'm 32 btw..


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:48 pm 
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fuser wrote:
Day 2..1,25mg

Expected for it to be worse than it is..I guess I expected the same thing as happened at 1,5mg, but it's as if I'm already used to the slight wd's..(of which I was terrified for 9 years).
I am starting to notice the fact that my head/mind feels sort of fresher than before..so that's a definite reward to just go ahead with the taper.. Don't want to think too early that the worse has past bcs it's probably not..but atm things seem very positive! I hope I can go down to 1mg in 3 days if things don't change..what took me so long!!! I could have/ should have done this 3 yrs ago! I'm 32 btw..

Try not to "look back" fuser- you are doing it NOW, KWIM? I am 48!! 8 year habit!! Ouch! But today I feel that even "that" can work for "good" if I allow it....I am really having to "dig deep" right now, and "grow", KWIM?? Keep focused on today. You will be just fine!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:57 am 
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Going down fro 2 mg to 1.5 was difficult for me. It has taken a month to get comfortable at that stage. Mainly the symptoms I've had are some leg cramps, some stomach cramps (both come and go it's not an all day thing) and definitely waking up earlier, which has ended up being a plus. I used to have a hard time dragging myself out of bed, but now I am up and out by 6 AM.

I went down to .75 over the weekend, mainly because my Doctor wasn't available o the day we normally would have met, so I had to make one 2mg strip last 3 days. It wasn't as bad as I feared, I think that's an important point. I have been on Suboxone maintenance for 10 years, it took a long time for it to occur to me to end this dependency. I had a 2 year painkiller habit and don't think I ever should have stayed on this long, but it is what it is, all I can do is make a change now. I definitely have cleared my head, and that feels so good, to feel aware and awake in a way that I honestly forgot.

The fear of withdrawal is so strong for anyone who has been an opiate addict and that fear keeps us on suboxone for longer than many of us would have liked.

Good luck to you and it does get easier. What you are experienceing seems to be what I am hearing all over this board, and thank god for this. I don't get this information or support for sub w/d in the 12 step meetings I go to. That's fine, but I am very glad to have this forum.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:57 pm 
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Day 6 at 1,25

So yesterday I hade to take a rescue dose (.25)..Had a more serious wd than the past daysin the middle of the night..
But sub is really so unpredictable, bcs today I wanted to hit right back at that rescue dose by taking only 1mg and surpisingly no problem whatsoever! But i kind of know that the real test of how it's going to be will be the next few days if I stay at 1mg..I'm determined to give it a try...if not I might end up going 1,25 vs 1mg next couple of days.. It really is an ongoing struggle with this little devil called sub..
But hey hoping to flush it out of my system in the next 2,5 months..so that by next summer I can finally not feel cold when entering the water at the beach :) Does anyone get this :) ? Sub makes you hate the water...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:57 pm 
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fuser wrote:
Day 6 at 1,25

So yesterday I hade to take a rescue dose (.25)..Had a more serious wd than the past daysin the middle of the night..
But sub is really so unpredictable, bcs today I wanted to hit right back at that rescue dose by taking only 1mg and surpisingly no problem whatsoever! But i kind of know that the real test of how it's going to be will be the next few days if I stay at 1mg..I'm determined to give it a try...if not I might end up going 1,25 vs 1mg next couple of days.. It really is an ongoing struggle with this little devil called sub..
But hey hoping to flush it out of my system in the next 2,5 months..so that by next summer I can finally not feel cold when entering the water at the beach :) Does anyone get this :) ? Sub makes you hate the water...

yea funny you said that but the water did suck, cold water thou. always thought I start shivering and not stop, I hated winter too, never knew how I would handle it. Its ok thou it comes back, I jump in at times just to prove im not cold intolerant. the beach no that's another challenge, hope to fight it soon. DB


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:27 pm 
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Hey fuser,
Sounds like you are doing what you need to do! It does get tricky around where you are at, and I remember well needing a "rescue" dose now and then until getting stable. This used to kinda bum me out, like I failed or something, until Romeo got "progress, not perfection" through my head. That attitude really helped me keep positive and just keep trying and moving forward the best I could. You will get there!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:39 pm 
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Hi everyone.. Glad to see my role models doing well :) !!!

I've been on some holidays..which were just perfect for going down to 1mg..been on it for 4 days..no problem! It just confirlms that doing something other than lying at home really helps at tapering.. I am aware that there's still a lot of work ahead..but a week ago I was like..sh...this jump from 1,25 to 1mg presents a real problem..I wanted to rush things a little..but it figured that giving just 5 to 6 more days really made me comfortable at 1,25 so that at one point I felt it's even too much.. So another 10 days hopefully and down I go to .75 which sound just beautiful!!! What I've learned since starting my taper is that;
1. This is a game of patience
2. That one bad day doesn't mean 7 bad days
3. that ''progress not perfection'' is a f..n excellent saying!

P.S. I'm soo getting a tatoo once I drain this out of my system ;) if there is ever a perfect moment for it it's got to be after '9 yrs a slave' on sub


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:18 pm 
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0,75 officialy!!!

I'm getting very very close to the end..
Although wd's are not at all as bad during the day (like the previous dosages...especially 1,5mg), I finally got a picture of how it's going to be sleeping wise...last night woke up in slight discomfort just 2 hours after taking my 0,5 dose (0,25 I push through the whole day)..amd that was it..no more sleep for me...
But I'm so close now I can see the finish line..! My next fear are the PAWS..about which I've been reading a lot...but I think PAWS are already here at these low dosages..so i reckon it will not be anything new once I jump..just maybe more persistent since there will be no dose to postpone it for a short while anyway..I 've arranged with my doc to get some clonidine once I go down to 0,5 (in about 2 weeks)..so I will be needing some tips since I only took this thing once when I was having a massive WD from taking a naltrexone pill while still stuffed with methadone..(a bad bad expirience)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:40 pm 
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Hey Fuser! Congrats on .75mgs!

That is great progress! You are right "the end is near"...it is just up to you how low you want to go. I jumped from .375, but many have jumped higher or lower.

The slight wdls you are experiencing now should make your jump a bit easier than at a higher dose of course. When you do jump, you will have some "acute" withdrawals that last somewhere in the range from about days 2-14ish, just depending on the person I guess and the dose they jump from.

Then energy and overall wellness seems to keep improving, but around Day 30ish or even later (after the "acute" period) some (but not all) get hit with PAWS (post acute withdrawal) symptoms which can be a bit of a drag, but not as sever as acute wdls, I believe. One cannot experience "PAWS" until through with acute wdls. If I'm wrong I hope a moderator or someone will correct me.

Again, great work! Keep posting!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 6:54 pm 
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Thanks Bfly..I get what you mean..but over the last few weeks I have been expiriencing a slight depression and emptiness..which I characterised as PAWS.. wd is another thing but i think PAWS might be already here in a way.. anyway it sure cannot be as bad as we make it in our head :)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:57 am 
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fuser wrote:
Thanks Bfly..I get what you mean..but over the last few weeks I have been expiriencing a slight depression and emptiness..which I characterised as PAWS.. wd is another thing but i think PAWS might be already here in a way.. anyway it sure cannot be as bad as we make it in our head :)

Hi fuser,
Yeah, I also went through some bouts of depression around the dose you are at...it sucks, but it did help me to post about it and get feedback that it was a "normal' part of the process, and would not last.

I became really freaked out one weekend that I was going to slide into a long term depression (been there before and just cannot go back- I don't think I would survive it, for real). Anyway, the depressive thoughts intensified when I was alone in a darkened room (big surprise there huh?) so for me it helped to get 'up and out' into the light, sunshine, around other people, and "out' of my own head. It can be difficult to force yourself to do this as at least for me, "wallowing" in those feelings alone can seem like the easier thing to do.

Of course life is not going to be all sunshine and roses- bad feelings inspire us to make healthy changes to "fix' the root of the problems and grow (unless we hide from them by say, taking drugs). I found though while going through the tapering process I just had to "shelf" those feelings for awhile until I was stronger and healthier- tapering itself takes so much energy and fortitude I found I had little left to deal with some of the "shit" I was carrying around in my head.

Be kind and gentle with yourself. Be forgiving of yourself! Take good care of yourself as if you were nursing a sick child, which is what we all are anyway on this road to recovery- IMO we are all God's children, and in our sickness need nurturing and love, like all sick children need to help them get well again.

Take care and I hope you have a good day. My advice for mood besides getting out of your head and trying to focus on others, is listen to uplifting music and exercise. Both do wonders!
BF

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